Libertyville Cross Country invite cancelled for 2009 and 2010

[slow poke]

Anyone know what the story is?
http://www.lhswildcats.org/teacher/buesing/CROSSCOUNTRY/schedule.htm

[ROCK]

Because it lands on the same day as a religious holiday.

[Swoosh13]

Seriously you can't hold a meet on Rosh Hashanah? Dumb.

[JewHopsBG]

Seriously you can't hold a meet on Rosh Hashanah? Dumb.

...not really feeling this comment bud. hope there was sarcasm

[Swoosh13]

...not really feeling this comment bud. hope there was sarcasm

There wasn't.

[slow poke]

Because it lands on the same day as a religious holiday.


Thanks for this.

Shalom

[1forglory]

at least i don't have to go all sandy koufax now. (And yes, I know it was yom kippur)

[KCSPEED]

I wonder if anyone will go back in 2011?

[Swoosh13]

I wonder if anyone will go back in 2011?

They shouldn't, there is no reason a public high school should be cancelling events for religious reasons anyways.

[JewHopsBG]

They shouldn't, there is no reason a public high school should be cancelling events for religious reasons anyways.

so should we have class on good friday?

instead
how about they don't schedule the meet on one of the holiest days of the year? for once the public schools are doing their jobs. not everyone ca afford going to a private school, and considering that the libertyville area has a fairly good amount of jews, as well as all of lake county.

so they shouldnt schedule meets on any religious holiday, may it be jewish, catholic, christian, islamic, or whatever other one.

[DonkeyKongRunner]

so should we have class on good friday?

instead
how about they don't schedule the meet on one of the holiest days of the year? for once the public schools are doing their jobs. not everyone ca afford going to a private school, and considering that the libertyville area has a fairly good amount of jews, as well as all of lake county.

so they shouldnt schedule meets on any religious holiday, may it be jewish, catholic, christian, islamic, or whatever other one.

Do you know how many religious holidays there are if you consider every religion? Where do you draw the line? Meets show go on. Individual cases should be taken up separately. If a runner does not want to compete that day then they shouldn't have to but to cancel and entire meet is a different story.

[JewHopsBG]

Do you know how many religious holidays there are if you consider every religion? Where do you draw the line? Meets show go on. Individual cases should be taken up separately. If a runner does not want to compete that day then they shouldn't have to but to cancel and entire meet is a different story.

yes. I realize how many religious holidays there are, however, I have never seen a meet on easter or good friday, the instead choose to not have the meet, or schedule it differently.

so if we are going to start scheduling meets on the second most holy day in the jewish religion, shouldnt we start scheduling meets on easter and good friday. all I am saying is that I in fact think that its actually a good think that they cancled this meet.

[UHSTrack]

yes. I realize how many religious holidays there are, however, I have never seen a meet on easter or good friday, the instead choose to not have the meet, or schedule it differently.

so if we are going to start scheduling meets on the second most holy day in the jewish religion, shouldnt we start scheduling meets on easter and good friday. all I am saying is that I in fact think that its actually a good think that they cancled this meet.

There have been meets held on Good Friday, the meets I have seen suffered attendance-wise, but at least they went on.

Easter is on a Sunday, so no, meets shouldn't be held then.

That being said, rescheduling their invite would have been the better option when weighed against cancelling it for two years. What teams would want to commit to a meet that will be cancelled every few years? Why would coaches want to leave themselves open to a hole in their schedule?

Just change the day.

[JewHopsBG]

There have been meets held on Good Friday, the meets I have seen suffered attendance-wise, but at least they went on.

Easter is on a Sunday, so no, meets shouldn't be held then.

That being said, rescheduling their invite would have been the better option when weighed against cancelling it for two years. What teams would want to commit to a meet that will be cancelled every few years? Why would coaches want to leave themselves open to a hole in their schedule?

Just change the day.

so yea. just change the day. i am just saying it is very, very unnecessary to have a meet on this day.

i love track. i love xc. i dont think a meet should have to conflict with religion.

[DonkeyKongRunner]

so yea. just change the day. i am just saying it is very, very unnecessary to have a meet on this day.

i love track. i love xc. i dont think a meet should have to conflict with religion.

And different people have different opinions, but part of public school is having a choice whether or not they are going to take certain days off.

[jenuine13]

I'm doing a massive presentation on religion in public schools next week. This is such an awesome example for me to use. Yay!

I'm torn over this issue. There is no doubt that there is a bias in schools towards Christian (primarily Protestant) religions, which is a result of the history of our public school system and the fact that the majority of our society is Christian. The fact that we don't play games on Sundays typically but rather on Saturdays is testament to that.

I'd much prefer that the invite went on, but that coaches allowed their athletes to celebrate Rosh Hashanah without penalty if they miss the meet. If the directors of the Libertyville meet are Jewish however, and would prefer to celebrate the holiday rather than planning and hosting a major meet, that is their right, and I understand that as well.

Just saying that no athletic events should be held on religious holidays doesn't work though. Should we cancel everything during Ramadan? What about the Sacrament of Confirmation? That's typically done on a Saturday in April of either the 8th grade or sophomore year. Why don't we cancel all late April/early May meets then on Saturdays? Should we cancel practice on Ash Wednesday as well? Christians do make decisions between religion and sports as well.

Not to mention also easier to plan to schedule around holidays like Easter and Good Friday because they're always on Friday and Sunday. A coach can just schedule Saturday meets. It's much for more difficult to plan for holidays that are rotating. Eventually they will fall on a date that is inconvenient (which seems to be the case this year), and someone will have to make the tough decision, whether at the administrative, coach, or family level.

/my long rambling thoughts while bored at work.

[LFrunr10]

running is religion ;)

[OnePoint]

running is real

fixed for accuracy

[Swoosh13]

I know there are meets held on Holy Saturday and I would guess there are meets held on good friday (a day when you are suppose to fast and not partake in things like that). Easter and Christmas are not at normal meets times anyways, but even if they were they are culturally significant beyond just religious which the Jewish holidays are not. If individual runners do not want to run on that holiday then that is fine, but a school should not cancel a meet, that is ridiculous. Also when schools cancel school on Good Friday they are not allowed to say it is because of Good Friday they come up with another reason.

[konza847]

If this meet, like many large invitational meets, depends on a large number of volunteers to run it, and those volunteers will be unavailable due to the religious holiday, it's hard to take issue with not holding the meet in years when it conflicts with the holiday(s) in question.

If, on the other hand, a couple of the teams who usually participate in the meet will be unable to do so due to the religious holiday, the school should hold the meet and welcome those teams back when they are once again able to participate.

When I was in elementary school I lived in a school district where on the holidays in question, two-thirds of the kids didn't come to school. the rest of us had school that day, but it was play time, since you really couldn't teach anything that the kids who weren't there would have to be responsible for learning. I'm sure there would be objections from the likes of the ACLU, but from a practical standpoint, if that many kids aren't going to be in school, for whatever reason, nobody should have a big issue with giving everybody the day off.

Another note: They WILL find ways to play the football games that weekend. They may schedule them on Thursday or the following Monday, but they WILL get played.

[Bgneedsasnowday]

I rarely look at these boards anymore...but I had to comment on this one:
The Proviso East Indoor Pirate Invitational was held my senior year on Good Friday, which in my opinion is just as holy as the holiday in question here, and I ran. So did all of BG's team. That was a personal decision for me...I believe that I honor God when I run, and so I felt there was no need for me to not race. I don't think it makes you any stronger of a person by refusing to race on certain "holy days," just as I don't believe that going to church, temple, or mosque MAKES you that religion. It is the actions you lead in daily life as well as your faith that makes you that religion. (Okay, done with that sermon). I'm sure as far as meet managers go, it was a no-brainer. Cancelling a meet of that magnitude comes at a high price, and I realize the Libertyville meet is not a meet of quite that size, and with Proviso's usually close proximity to IPTT teams and individuals need to get marks. Libertyville was always a good place to run, but I would not fault teams for not going back after a 2-year absence. All I can say is that I hope there are still other meets held on this day, and that BG still chooses to schedule a meet. I remember we always practiced on Jewish (and Christian for that matter) holidays, and of course it is a personal decision to attend. I think depriving atheists, agnostics, Christians, or Jews a chance to race on a non-National Holiday (ie: one that the post office doesn't deliver mail) is a sham at a public school...And this is coming from a radical conservative who considers himself to be very religious. Trust me, once you get to college, they don't care anyways. Once again, it is a matter of opinion and personal choice, but I don't think anything is gained from you playing the whole "Chariots of Fire" card. If you are committed to a team, you do what it takes to be great, even if that means you play (run) on Sunday, at 6 am, when it's snowing, when the power's out, when you're sick. You have a responsibility to your team the same as you have one to God, but God forgives, and your teammates and coach might not :) Hope I didn't offend anyone, thats just my two cents.

[JewHopsBG]

I rarely look at these boards anymore...but I had to comment on this one:
The Proviso East Indoor Pirate Invitational was held my senior year on Good Friday, which in my opinion is just as holy as the holiday in question here, and I ran. So did all of BG's team. That was a personal decision for me...I believe that I honor God when I run, and so I felt there was no need for me to not race. I don't think it makes you any stronger of a person by refusing to race on certain "holy days," just as I don't believe that going to church, temple, or mosque MAKES you that religion. It is the actions you lead in daily life as well as your faith that makes you that religion. (Okay, done with that sermon). I'm sure as far as meet managers go, it was a no-brainer. Cancelling a meet of that magnitude comes at a high price, and I realize the Libertyville meet is not a meet of quite that size, and with Proviso's usually close proximity to IPTT teams and individuals need to get marks. Libertyville was always a good place to run, but I would not fault teams for not going back after a 2-year absence. All I can say is that I hope there are still other meets held on this day, and that BG still chooses to schedule a meet. I remember we always practiced on Jewish (and Christian for that matter) holidays, and of course it is a personal decision to attend. I think depriving atheists, agnostics, Christians, or Jews a chance to race on a non-National Holiday (ie: one that the post office doesn't deliver mail) is a sham at a public school...And this is coming from a radical conservative who considers himself to be very religious. Trust me, once you get to college, they don't care anyways. Once again, it is a matter of opinion and personal choice, but I don't think anything is gained from you playing the whole "Chariots of Fire" card. If you are committed to a team, you do what it takes to be great, even if that means you play (run) on Sunday, at 6 am, when it's snowing, when the power's out, when you're sick. You have a responsibility to your team the same as you have one to God, but God forgives, and your teammates and coach might not :) Hope I didn't offend anyone, thats just my two cents.

And, had you not run on the meet, bg's coaches would be understanding. as they have always told us that both religion, family, and school come before track.
you do not need to run a meet on that day in order to be great. Maybe I dont understand the concepts of running a meet, but I believe that it wouldnt be that hard to change a meets day by one day.

[DonkeyKongRunner]

And, had you not run on the meet, bg's coaches would be understanding. as they have always told us that both religion, family, and school come before track.
you do not need to run a meet on that day in order to be great. Maybe I dont understand the concepts of running a meet, but I believe that it wouldnt be that hard to change a meets day by one day.

They aren't pursuing that option, though. They are instead canceling the event altogether....

[bobbles]

It's the schools choice, my former HS, Stevenson, did not allow for events to be held on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur (we suffered through missing the palatine invite for 2 years), we also do not have events on good friday. I believe for this we were removed from one of the downers grove invite for several years because we did not attend one years because it was on a religious holiday. It is not fair to force students to make a decision on whether to run or whether to recuse themselves from an event when there is a large percentage of students who would be put in the situation. Yom Kippur is the holiest day of the year for jews, and it would be like having a meet on christmas, which you will never see.

[jenuine13]

It's the schools choice, my former HS, Stevenson, did not allow for events to be held on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur (we suffered through missing the palatine invite for 2 years), we also do not have events on good friday. I believe for this we were removed from one of the downers grove invite for several years because we did not attend one years because it was on a religious holiday. It is not fair to force students to make a decision on whether to run or whether to recuse themselves from an event when there is a large percentage of students who would be put in the situation. Yom Kippur is the holiest day of the year for jews, and it would be like having a meet on christmas, which you will never see.

Easter is actually the holiest day for Christians. Sadly that's kind of been lost to the massive commercialization of Christmas, so you'd never guess that, but yeah, Easter is the big one.

[IllinoisPhotographer]

The problem I have is why is it the school's decision to cancel it rather than the athlete's individual decision to not participate?

[bobbles]

The problem I have is why is it the school's decision to cancel it rather than the athlete's individual decision to not participate?

it's a school board policy I'm sure, they are the elected representatives of the people.

[JewHopsBG]

They aren't pursuing that option, though. They are instead canceling the event altogether....

i realize that. which is why I have said from the beginning that I am happy they chose not to run the event on that day. canceling the meet all together seems a little much, but i am happy they have chosen not to run the meet on that day, much like football teams have had to work around rosh hashana and yom kippur in the past