Little help with base mileage over the summer...

[MaxIsSlow...]

Hello, this is my first post here on Dyestat but I've have been reading the forums for a couple weeks. As you probably already know by the name of this topic, I have a series of questions about summer base work. I'm a male, just recently turned 16 year old sophmore.

Last summer between freshman and sophmore year I wanted to get serious about running. I wasn't too knowledgeable at the time, not near enough to form my own base program. I started with 40 and to around 65 by the end of the summer. My first question is, how much should my training pace be progressing, because when I was doing the base work I was always between 8:00-8:30. I progressed in distance but not in time, is this what should be happening to my body? My PR'S as a freshman were;
5:09 1600
2:16 800
11:10 3200
18:13 3mile
Was my pace too slow for my fitness?
During my training I made some critical mistakes as a naive freshman, I ran on concrete everyday and since I supinate... two days before my team's first cross country meet I received an 8 week injury to my hip/femur region. (Believed to be stress fracture of the femur, but my parent's didn't want to pay for a bone scan)
How often should I be running on softer surfaces such as grass?
After completely missing the cross country season I became very discouraged and didn't run at all over the winter. Now my fitness so far this year (I have only a two meets left, last meet is April 26th so my times won't improve much);
5:32 1600
2:25 800
61 400
xx:xx 3200 (haven't run)
xx:xx (haven't run)
With this level of fitness how much can I safely increase my mileage between May 1st to Mid August? (about 15 weeks)
I have a goal of under 16:30-15:50 for the 3mile. Any idea on what my training pace should be and suggested mileage? I was thinking about doing on average 1.5 tempo runs a week, is this a good idea?

Well that is about it, thanks to all who took the time to read, and thanks even more to all who will respond. =)

[Beanfontaine]

well for one your gonna get numerous and various responses to this but heres mine...


of course 40 mpw is a minimum you can go higher if you want and i encourage it. Although to know when the mileage is too high is if it becomes really difficult to complete your runs/workouts, or your just physically drained all the time. When this happens its time to cut the mileage down.

Also if you start at a certain number of miles a week and work your way up to higher mileage per week by the end of summer, the best time to up the mileage is when it becomes a bit too easy to complete your workouts/runs. If the harder workouts begin to feel like a walk in the park then its time to up the mileage/intensity; of course dont go crazy.

Generally its best not to worry about actual time pace and focus more on the fundamentals. Form, breathing etc. Basically run at a pace based off of how you feel physically. You run closer to full potential when you just go out and base the pace off what your body is telling you and not your watch. of course if you do any type of interval training like mile repeats or anything then yes its good to set a reasonable pace for you to run at.

basically thats all i can say. im sure someone will give you more thorough advice than i did.

[IrishBH]

Over the summer I was at a Camp and Professional runner Matt Downin was my Councilor. I asked him a simular question. He said simply "when you feel good run hard, when you don't take it easy". This is the summer, I think to many people get caught up with scheduled workouts and stuff. I personally would set how many miles a week i wanted, then just got there without to much extra planning. I would suggest you do the milage you did last year 40-65. But when you go out on a run, take it easy for the first mile. Then see how you feel. If your feeling good pick it up, then keep picking it up the whole run if you can. AKA a progression run. If your not feeling fast then just keep running at an easy pace. This way your fast runs will be largely negative split. You won't start to fast then die, cause that is just damaging to the ego and body. You will get use to ending your runs fast, like a race kidna. Good luck

[MaxIsSlow...]

Thanks for the responses, an important question to me that you guys might have overlooked, how often should I try to run on softer surfaces such as grass? At least half of each run? A followup question that I forgot to ask, anyone with high arches and supinates know of trainers well suited for me. I currently use the Reebok Ultra ProLite DMX and Asics Cumulus 6.

[Beanfontaine]

Thanks for the responses, an important question to me that you guys might have overlooked, how often should I try to run on softer surfaces such as grass? At least half of each run? A followup question that I forgot to ask, anyone with high arches and supinates know of trainers well suited for me. I currently use the Reebok Ultra ProLite DMX and Asics Cumulus 6.


Well personally from what ive learned running on soft and hard grounds makes no difference. If you run on hard ground, it should teach you to be light on your feet i.e. making as little noise as possible. running on soft ground may help build up leg muscles. But it would be a good idea to have 1/3 of your weekly mileage on hard surface, 1/3 on soft surface and the remaining 1/3 on surface thats a little of both.

As far as the high arches thing the best thing to do is to find insoles to help with your footing. Or you can find soft grassy areas to do barefooted strides or just run barefooted on to help with your perdicament.

[PreLikedBeer]

good advice bean.
and other guy, you can definitly hit ur goal.

[OnePoint]

Thanks for the responses, an important question to me that you guys might have overlooked, how often should I try to run on softer surfaces such as grass? At least half of each run? A followup question that I forgot to ask, anyone with high arches and supinates know of trainers well suited for me. I currently use the Reebok Ultra ProLite DMX and Asics Cumulus 6.


ive got super high arches and the only shoe ive ever worn that helps me avoid leg problems is the asics gel kayano...great trainers

[MaxIsSlow...]

which version do you use, sir?

[pcrunner17]

I have a goal of under 16:30-15:50 for the 3mile.

MaxIsSlow, how soon do you want to run 16:30 for 3 miles? I'm sure you must have thought about this before now, but that's your current pace for the mile three times over. It's great to have goals, but just keep in mind that you should set some short terms goals to keep you on track. Expecting too much too soon is a great way to get so discouraged that you fall off your training altogether. Good luck in the future.

[MaxIsSlow...]

Yes I know, I have some minor goals as well.
year goals:
very easy goal:don't slack on my basework
easy goal: run a couple 5k's over the summer
medium goal: make varsity on my XC team
medium(2) goal: Run sub 17 for 3miles
hard goal:gain lots of flexiblity(I am very inflexible, one of the other reasons I got a femur injury, hamstrings are very tight)
Very hard goal: Run sub 16 for 3miles
Ultimate goal: Be #1 runner on my team.

I put out a challenging goal to see if anyone would answer, "How many miles do you think I would have to run for a 16:30 3mile over the summer?", to get a gauge.
here is a rough sketch of my program:
(week)-(mileage)
1-45
2-50
3-55
4-45
5-55
6-60
7-45
8-55
9-60
10-65
11-70
12-45
13-65
14-70
15-75

Any critical errors in my schedule?(I have a feeling I am building WAY too fast)
I plan on having one long run, 1.5 a week average tempo runs, and the rest LSD.
Please don't hesitate to critcize me and/or revise it, as long as it is constructive. :D

Thanks so much for helping me out guys.

[XCdude24]

Way too much running the first week. You shouldn't be running anymore than 30 minutes during the first week.

Just remember, SLOWLY build up and take it easy, after all, you got 2-3 months. As far as pace, if you're a 5:09 miler i'd say start about 8 minutes per mile, and by the end of the summer you could be down to about 7:30.

You also might want to add one tempo per week towards the end of your base.

[AzN at LARGE]

Any critical errors in my schedule?(I have a feeling I am building WAY too fast)

yea i agree it does build pretty fast, you should probably start lower and build up slower.

[MaxIsSlow...]

got two new sophmore PR's...(still slower than freshman year.) I'm pretty happy with my times considering I developed no base over the winter and am running pretty low mileage. (15-30)
1600: 5:23
800: 2:21

Yes, I know they are slow. (notice my screename sirs) :rolleyes:

[xcviking07]

Like the others said, relax and build up slow. Make sure to include a fairly long tempo and LOTS of hills. Hills will give you the strength, speed, and endurance you need in xc. I'm not necessarily talking about hill repeats, but more long runs which incorporate a steady diet of hills.

Sorry to sort of get off topic, but I'm a soph. this year with pr's of 4:58(freshman year), 10:29, and 17:00(cross, 3 miles). Do you think a 16-16:30 is possible this year with ~70 mpw this summer?

[IrishBH]

Sorry to sort of get off topic, but I'm a soph. this year with pr's of 4:58(freshman year), 10:29, and 17:00(cross, 3 miles). Do you think a 16-16:30 is possible this year with ~70 mpw this summer?
It is possible no matter what your track PRs are. The 70 miles a week is good only if it doesnt' leave you real tired. I've seen runners put in the work over the summer but it leave them too tired to ever race well in the fall. But if you can do it and feel healthy and energetic then go for it

[4x2mile]

those prs are plenty fast...i was a 4:59/10:24 soph and i went 17:05 in the 5k, so you should be good

[marcusandme]

what exactly are these tempo runs you are all talking about? im not familiar with the term

[Beanfontaine]

Like the others said, relax and build up slow. Make sure to include a fairly long tempo and LOTS of hills. Hills will give you the strength, speed, and endurance you need in xc. I'm not necessarily talking about hill repeats, but more long runs which incorporate a steady diet of hills.

Sorry to sort of get off topic, but I'm a soph. this year with pr's of 4:58(freshman year), 10:29, and 17:00(cross, 3 miles). Do you think a 16-16:30 is possible this year with ~70 mpw this summer?


a teammate of mine (soph this year) was equivelant to you when he was a fresh. he too wanted to run 16-`16:30 for XC so my coach had him run 40mpw but majority of those were runs working on pace, hills and negative splits.

The best run he had him do was a 60 min run were the first 30min you start slow and gradually build up to a tempo like base by the end of the first 30 min. Than the second half is all about maintaining the pace.

His PR's this year as a soph for XC is a 15:18 for 3 miles and 16:02 for 5k.

[yeahtrack123]

a teammate of mine (soph this year) was equivelant to you when he was a fresh. he too wanted to run 16-`16:30 for XC so my coach had him run 40mpw but majority of those were runs working on pace, hills and negative splits.

The best run he had him do was a 60 min run were the first 30min you start slow and gradually build up to a tempo like base by the end of the first 30 min. Than the second half is all about maintaining the pace.

His PR's this year as a soph for XC is a 15:18 for 3 miles and 16:02 for 5k.


wow...

either that kid was totally inexperienced to running. i mean coming off of 5:30 mile races and going to a 15:18 3 mile.. or he has been genetically altered

im thinking the latter

i just dont find that increase in fitness very believable

[run_nyc]

do u plan on running doubles or singles?
I think the best thing for you, if you are willing to go high. Would be a Lydiard nine week build up.
That goes like this

3
11
22
34
45
56
66
78
90
100

All of those done slow, like that 8 minute pace, none faster than 7 I would say. Maybe some strides. Try to hold 100, it's a good number, and consistancy is what counts.