Semenya to keep gold medal - SA ministry

[DannyBroChill]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SPORT/11/19/athletics.semenya.test.gold/index.html

(CNN) -- South African runner Caster Semenya will be allowed to keep the gold medal she won in the women's 800-meters at the World Athletics Championships in Berlin, Germany, in August, the country's sports ministry announced Thursday.
In a statement on their official Web site the ministry added that Semenya had been found innocent of any wrongdoing but the widely anticipated results of gender tests conducted would not be made public.
"We have agreed with the IAAF that whatever scientific tests were conducted legally within the IAAF regulations will be treated as a confidential matter between patient and doctor," the statement read.
"As such there will be no public announcement of what the panel of scientists has found. We urge all South Africans and other people to respect this professional ethical and moral way of doing things."
The world governing body for athletics, the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF), have refused to comment on the announcement, only reiterating a statement published on their official Web site on Wednesday that the release of their gender-test findings would be delayed until "further notice."
The IAAF had been expected to release its findings on February 20, but confirmed it had been in discussions with the South African Ministry of Sport and Recreation with a view to "resolving the issues surrounding Caster Semenya's participation in athletics."
The IAAF went on to say that the medical tests on Semenya had still to be completed.
"There will be no discussion of Semenya's case at the forthcoming IAAF Council Meeting to be held in Monaco on 20-21 November 2009. No further comment will be made on this subject until further notice," their statement read.
Reports in two newspapers in September said the results of the tests showed Semenya has both male and female characteristics. The IAAF has declined to confirm those reports.
The South African ministry added they had been unhappy with way the testing had been handled: "We have asked the IAAF to apologize at the way the whole Caster Semenya saga was dealt with.
"Their response is: 'It is deeply regrettable that information of a confidential nature entered the public domain.' The IAAF is adamant that the public discourse did not originate with them.
"We also cannot prove the contrary. It is our considered view that this chapter of blame apportioning must now be closed. The sport bodies must be allowed to deal with the rest of the investigations in terms of their own regulations," the statement added.
The controversy over Semenya erupted after she crushed her rivals in the 800 meters and secured victory in one minute, 55.45 seconds -- the best women's time in the world this year.
Semenya's masculine build and dominant performance fueled existing questions about her gender, and the IAAF -- which oversees the sport worldwide -- ordered tests to be carried out.

I'm actually kinda shocked, I thought for sure he/she was going to be stripped of the medal.

And what is up with the results not being made public?

[cnick]

I would take what ASA says with a grain of salt.

[Zat0pek]

My take: She should keep the medal and the prize money. The money is small compensation for what she has been through.

I don't believe she cheated. I believe she was inelgible and truly didn't know it. I believe the blood is on the hands of the ASA.

Therefore, ASA should have to reimburse the IAAF the prize money out of its own pocket on her behalf. Then, new medals should be re-ordered behind her (a second gold to the second-place finisher, then silver and bronze to the third and fourth placers, respectively) with prize money commensurate with those medals. The official results should be according to the new medals issued, with her shown as a DQ. The other athletes should not be punished for the inclusion of an ineligible athlete in the field.

And, of course, she should be barred from future competition and then be left alone to live her life in peace.

[eh]

My take: She should keep the medal and the prize money. The money is small compensation for what she has been through.

I don't believe she cheated. I believe she was inelgible and truly didn't know it. I believe the blood is on the hands of the ASA.

Therefore, ASA should have to reimburse the IAAF the prize money out of its own pocket on her behalf. Then, new medals should be re-ordered behind her (a second gold to the second-place finisher, then silver and bronze to the third and fourth placers, respectively) with prize money commensurate with those medals. The official results should be according to the new medals issued, with her shown as a DQ. The other athletes should not be punished for the inclusion of an ineligible athlete in the field.

And, of course, she should be barred from future competition and then be left alone to live her life in peace.

I agree most of this, although it may be too much to reissue multiple medals (has this ever been done before?).

But yeah, stripping her of her gold would be going way too far.

[DannyBroChill]

I just feel as if the other athletes have been cheated, whether she new it or not. Great honor and responsibility comes with a gold medal, does she really deserve it?

[Equinox2100]

I just feel as if the other athletes have been cheated, whether she new it or not. Great honor and responsibility comes with a gold medal, does she really deserve it?

Of course she deserves it. To echo what Zat said, she didn't know (IMO). She trained like a woman, ran like a woman, and had probably the best moment of her entire life by winning.

They totally should've caught this pre-race, it's their fault (ASA) for not properly screening the athletes prior to the competition. Don't hate on the person who did everything right.

[KevinM]

I just feel as if the other athletes have been cheated, whether she new it or not. Great honor and responsibility comes with a gold medal, does she really deserve it?


She won a race, not an election. It seems fairly clear that she did not intend to "cheat" anybody out of anything. The girl has been put through enough humiliation by a largely immature sporting public to be put through the indignity of being stripped of her medal like a common drug cheat. Zat is spot on. Amend the results, reward the new medalists accordingly, and slap the ASA with the IAAF's riding glove.

How does it further cheat the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place finishers for her to keep her medal if they are given their own? They've already lost the thrill of crossing the line in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd and standing on the medal podium. To extend the awkward and unfortunate debate over this one athlete is meaningless and bordering on cruel, IMO.

[kingcoe]

So while I don't disagree with the decision that appears to be coming down I find it interesting that such a human element seems to have entered into these proceedings.

Simply put, we ban and disqualify athletes if they are found to have illegal substances in their bodies and they claim they did not know they were there or how they got there and we do this without a problem. Now admittedly we do this because we know that athletes can lie and say they didn't know they had taken the illegal substances or their coaches can give them the substance without their knowledge but we still ban them.

Semenya perhaps did not know she was different but it would still be illegal for her to compete as a woman if she was a man. If she is ruled a "man" by the tests how is this different than a person who fails their drug test and truly doesn't know how it happened.

Is Semenya keeping her medal because of how horrifyingly embarassing this has been for her? Is she keeping her medal because she was used as a pawn by her federation? Is she keeping her medal because the IAAF feels they dropped the ball? I hope she is keeping her medal because they simply don't feel she qualifies as a man or feel she does not have any advantage over her female competitors other than greater talent.

I don't know and ultimately I don't hugely care. The whole story is just a darn shame. What a crime that two of the biggest stories within our sport in the last couple of years have been about a man missing most his legs and a woman who might be a man. Tabloid track???

[oldstyle]

And, of course, she should be barred from future competition and then be left alone to live her life in peace.

This brings up a question that I don't believe has been posed yet. What do you do with an athlete that can run 1:55 for 800, who has been gender tested but the results so far are confidential? Being barred from future competition seems rather harsh. This person should be allowed to compete internationally. However and perhaps there should be some sort of a consideration for athletes that fall into this unique category. It's a different world today. Once upon a time there were 2 public restrooms: male & female. Now with the inclusion of tranny/uni-sexed individuals we have 3. She should be allowed to compete but where she should be placed is another story. I hate to think it but the 3 restroom category for track and field may be right around the corner. :(

[Equinox2100]

This brings up a question that I don't believe has been posed yet. What do you do with an athlete that can run 1:55 for 800, who has been gender tested but the results so far are confidential? Being barred from future competition seems rather harsh. This person should be allowed to compete internationally. However and perhaps there should be some sort of a consideration for athletes that fall into this unique category. It's a different world today. Once upon a time there were 2 public restrooms: male & female. Now with the inclusion of tranny/uni-sexed individuals we have 3. She should be allowed to compete but where she should be placed is another story. I hate to think it but the 3 restroom category for track and field may be right around the corner. :(

yea i doubt that a 3rd class will come. They can run w/ men because being any part of a woman racing men is not an advantage. She will probably be barred from women international competition, not mens.

But a 1:55 runner won't be running internationally anytime soon.

[kingcoe]

This brings up a question that I don't believe has been posed yet. What do you do with an athlete that can run 1:55 for 800, who has been gender tested but the results so far are confidential? Being barred from future competition seems rather harsh. This person should be allowed to compete internationally. However and perhaps there should be some sort of a consideration for athletes that fall into this unique category. It's a different world today. Once upon a time there were 2 public restrooms: male & female. Now with the inclusion of tranny/uni-sexed individuals we have 3. She should be allowed to compete but where she should be placed is another story. I hate to think it but the 3 restroom category for track and field may be right around the corner. :(

You live somewhere where there are 3 different bathrooms? I've never even heard of that.

[trackgirl]

I don't believe she cheated. I believe she was inelgible and truly didn't know it.

Which is, frankly, irrelevant. The IAAF has gone to appeals court in order to establish the principle that knowledge and intent are not elements of the crime, and neither is the presence of a banned substance. Ergo, if your numbers are not within the permitted range, you are guilty. That's the standard the IAAF has used in the past, and that's the one they should use now. That they aren't using it now smacks of cowardice and political correctness.

[Zat0pek]

Which is, frankly, irrelevant. The IAAF has gone to appeals court in order to establish the principle that knowledge and intent are not elements of the crime, and neither is the presence of a banned substance. Ergo, if your numbers are not within the permitted range, you are guilty. That's the standard the IAAF has used in the past, and that's the one they should use now. That they aren't using it now smacks of cowardice and political correctness.

All good points, but I think there is a difference here that has to be accounted for (and I'm pretty sure no one has ever accused me of being PC). As I have said repeatedly, I think any positive for one of the biggies (steroids, EPO, HGH, etc.) should result in a lifetime ban and a retroactive elimnation of all championship titles, medal and prize money.

The HUGE difference here is that Semenya didn't actually "do" anything other than show up and compete where she was told to. And no one else actually "did" anything to her. She didn't take anything and she wasn't given anything by anybody. All she did was show up and run.

And for that, this 18 year old girl from a remote village had questions and discriptions about her genitalia plastered all over the international press. He family was interviewed and asked about her genitalia and whether she'd ever had a period. Her high school principal was interviewed about the same things. Doctors paraded before the reporters to discuss what might be "wrong" with her.

Question: Who did more wrong here? Did Semenya do more wrong to the sport, or did the sport do more wrong to her? The answer, to me, is unquestionably the latter. Yes, it appears she was ineligible to compete as a women and the other athletes shouldn't be punished for losing to an ineligible athlete. But there IS a fundamental difference between ineligibility for the reasons she is and someone taking some affirmative action to cheat, whether it was her or someone else. Intent never even comes up because nothing was even done about which we discuss intent. There was no "act" here, intentional or not.

The other athletes should get their rightful medals, titles and prize money. The silver medalist should be become the world champion and receive a gold medal and the prize money. The placers 2-4 should not be punished for losing to an ineligible athlete. Semenya should be shown in the results as a DQ but with her time listed.

But the least we can do after the way she was humiliated by the international press and her own governing body is let her keep the medal and the money. A cheat would be required to return both. But the blood here is on the hands of the ASA, not Semenya or anyone around her, and they should have to cough up the prize money to return it to the IAAF so that it can go to the rightful winner, not Semenya. The IAAF shouldn't be out the money because of the ASA's actions.

Then, quietly and PRIVATELY let her know that she will be unable to compete in the future and let her get on with her life.

[Scotty]

This brings up a question that I don't believe has been posed yet. What do you do with an athlete that can run 1:55 for 800, who has been gender tested but the results so far are confidential? Being barred from future competition seems rather harsh. This person should be allowed to compete internationally. However and perhaps there should be some sort of a consideration for athletes that fall into this unique category. It's a different world today. Once upon a time there were 2 public restrooms: male & female. Now with the inclusion of tranny/uni-sexed individuals we have 3. She should be allowed to compete but where she should be placed is another story. I hate to think it but the 3 restroom category for track and field may be right around the corner. :(

I'm sure we all wish Semenya the best, but Zat is correct; she cannot be allowed to compete against women. Would be clearly unfair.

[ItbeganN Africa]

yea i doubt that a 3rd class will come. They can run w/ men because being any part of a woman racing men is not an advantage. She will probably be barred from women international competition, not mens.

But a 1:55 runner won't be running internationally anytime soon.

I don't really understand why this is the case. Semenya is young, and that means she'll very likely get faster, but it's not like there haven't been people running fast times, and many times at a young age, before she did. Plus, the world record is still two seconds faster than Semenya's 1:55. Anyway, here's some perspective, the last three year's top 800 meter times:

2009: 1:55.45 Caster Semenya (South Africa b. 1991)
2008: 1:54.01 Pamela Jelimo (Kenya b. 1989) - ran under 1:55 four times that year
2007: 1:56.04 Janeth Jepkosgei (Kenya b. 1983)
Plus, Maria Mutola dominated the 800 for over a decade.

Jelimo was only one year older than Semyena when she ran sub 1:55 in 2008.

My point is, since the tests results are going to be kept quiet, as they should be, I feel like it's unfair to bar someone from competition because (and this is just my presumption) they have ambiguous genitalia. The two-sex system will not be changed, so how does one justify such exclusion when the individual in question isn't dominating the sport by an excessive margin?

[WildcatXC]

My point is, since the tests results are going to be kept quiet, as they should be, I feel like it's unfair to bar someone from competition because (and this is just my presumption) they have ambiguous genitalia. The two-sex system will not be changed, so how does one justify such exclusion when the individual in question isn't dominating the sport by an excessive margin?

She's not barred from competition. There's no reason why she shouldn't be allowed to compete with the men, she has no competitive advantage over them. If she manages to run 1:43 in the next couple years, she should go try and beat the men. She does have an advantage over "normal" women though and shouldn't be allowed to compete with them.

[ItbeganN Africa]

By "barred from competition," I meant against women specifically. Sorry I was unclear.

[MJKruns]

I don't really understand why this is the case. Semenya is young, and that means she'll very likely get faster, but it's not like there haven't been people running fast times, and many times at a young age, before she did. Plus, the world record is still two seconds faster than Semenya's 1:55. Anyway, here's some perspective, the last three year's top 800 meter times:

2009: 1:55.45 Caster Semenya (South Africa b. 1991)
2008: 1:54.01 Pamela Jelimo (Kenya b. 1989) - ran under 1:55 four times that year
2007: 1:56.04 Janeth Jepkosgei (Kenya b. 1983)
Plus, Maria Mutola dominated the 800 for over a decade.

Jelimo was only one year older than Semyena when she ran sub 1:55 in 2008.

My point is, since the tests results are going to be kept quiet, as they should be, I feel like it's unfair to bar someone from competition because (and this is just my presumption) they have ambiguous genitalia. The two-sex system will not be changed, so how does one justify such exclusion when the individual in question isn't dominating the sport by an excessive margin?

The results being made public or not has no bearing on Semeyna's eligibility. If Semenya wanted to fight her being barred then I beleive he/she would have to release the results to prove her case in court and since he/she isn't fighting it in court, one must assume they weren't good.

[Scotty]

The results being made public or not has no bearing on Semeyna's eligibility. If Semenya wanted to fight her being barred then I beleive he/she would have to release the results to prove her case in court and since he/she isn't fighting it in court, one must assume they weren't good.

Well stated, MJ. Semenya is a talented runner, but the "dual gender" status (for lack of a better term) clearly makes running against women unfair.

[KevinM]

I'd just note that it detracts from the points you guys are trying to make to keep up with the "he/she" stuff.

[eastXC08]

she is trying to sue for 120,000,000 :eek:

[Milesofsmiles15]

i find it particularly hilarious her name is "Semen ya!"

[tri.track]

i find it particularly hilarious her name is "Semen ya!"

old.

she is trying to sue for 120,000,000 :eek:

source?

[amw2829]

source?

http://insidethegames.biz/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8567:semenya-to-sue-iaaf-and-asa-in-multi-million-dollar-lawsuits&catid=1:latest-news

[eastXC08]

letsrun

[pokerking55]

settles outside of court forrrr..... thats the big question... my guess is 15 mil?

[WORLDBEATER22]

It's only fair that Semenya keeps it. It's like letting Pistorius run at World's and then arguing about the advantages of his prostetics after he has won.
Then again, if the IAAF allowed someone who clearly appeared to be a man compete in the women's category and they won gold,my opinion is going to be a lot different. For absolute fairness to all the runners,Jepkosgei should get the Gold but regarding the circumstances it's best not to make a big deal about it.