KU Relays results

[robcuxc]

If you haven't seen yet, SMNW posted an impressive time of 18:08 for second place in the 4x1600 relay. They were only four seconds out of first place, and beat Liberty's squad by one second. I must say the boys are impressive. If only we'd been that good last year, then I could've run this race at KU...oh well. For those who haven't seen it, the results are posted live at http://www.kusports.com/relays/results/live/friday.html

[thsrunner06]

Hey guys, how bad was that wind. I was yelling at you guys on the backstretch and the wind was terrible and I am glad I didn't have to run in it. Anyway, you all still ran pretty well, considering.

[gtime1031]

the wind was not the best

[KS Roadrunna]

Whew!!! I'll be sure to actually take my pants out of the truck Saturday... I can stand that wind for awhile... but eventually my legs were just a tad bit chilly.

How bout that 800... pretty impressive in those conditions.

[thsrunner06]

Johnson pulled off the double. Man, that is awesome. He must be working his tail off.

[sammy t]

4:22 is a GREAT time for those conditions, that kid can run. I'm surprised Collett wasn't hounding him for the first couple of laps, he seemed to concede kicking position from the get go.

[scooter]

i can always come across the 1200m at 3:20 with no problem but can never come back with anything. that's twice now i've kicked a 76 with coming through @ 3:20. with 250 left my legs turned to jello and i couldnt barely pick them up.

[ccrunner101]

Hey guys, how bad was that wind. I was yelling at you guys on the backstretch and the wind was terrible and I am glad I didn't have to run in it. Anyway, you all still ran pretty well, considering.

Well in my 3200 race I decided to try to run for time instead of places in my heat. At the 1600 I was at 4:47 or 4:48, exactly where I wanted. I had a large lead and was running out in front by myself. On the 6th lap I lost all mental focus and I gave into the pain and wind. I finished with like a 5:14 :mad: last mile.

[one_more_mile]

Im not going to talk about my race, I dont even want to think of it.

[thsrunner06]

Well in my 3200 race I decided to try to run for time instead of places in my heat. At the 1600 I was at 4:47 or 4:48, exactly where I wanted. I had a large lead and was running out in front by myself. On the 6th lap I lost all mental focus and I gave into the pain and wind. I finished with like a 5:14 :mad: last mile.
It is better to run gutsy than to run scared. It is tough to run by yourself, especially when you are tired. I wouldn't have been able to go out like that in those conditions. I would run scared in the pack. Your time was still pretty decent.

[eliterun]

yeah, everybody died in that wind, I think. I did the same thing as Nick, except 2-3 seconds behind at the 1600.

[Follow Me]

Johnson pulled off the double. Man, that is awesome. He must be working his tail off.

Yeah, I've heard some of his training, and from what I understand, he trains like a beast!

[scooter]

in the 3200 i started off about 4:51...relatively slow, then started pickin people off. 2nd mile was 5:08 but i wasnt tired i slowed down because i didnt want to pass the people i was drafting off of. i'd tuck in behind them heading into the wind and surge around them and get behind the next group to head into the wind.

[one_more_mile]

A friend told me that Johnson was running 60 miles a week during christmas.

[KevinM]

A friend told me that Johnson was running 60 miles a week during christmas.

As he should be.

[Zat0pek]

A friend told me that Johnson was running 60 miles a week during christmas.

I, and a bunch of guys I ran against in high school, called those recovery weeks.

[ccrunner101]

Yeah it seems not very many high schoolers run real high mileage anymore.
During the beginning of the track season I was running 50's, but now my mileage is a little under 40.

[KevinM]

Yeah it seems not very many high schoolers run real high mileage anymore.


Maybe not, but take a look at some dyestat articles about the top kids in the country, and you'll see that a majority of them are above 60mpw.

[one_more_mile]

I agree. That was a heck of a lot more than anyone else I guess, and it is paying off. I know that I havent ran those kind of miles in a long time.

[Zat0pek]

Yeah it seems not very many high schoolers run real high mileage anymore.

Which is precisely why the time that got me third in the 3200 at State would have won every single state meet in that class for the next 18 straight years, and something like 20 out of the next 22 years.

Its also why all of my school records still stand 23 years later, despite the fact the town is now 5 times the population it was when I was there and the school has grown proportionally. Despite a talent pool five times the size, no one has run any faster, and I wasn't even very good by bigger standards.

Its also why I was able to eventually crawl my way from a small high school program without a track (that's right, without a track; I never ran a home track meet in four years of high school) to NAIA Cross Country Nationals to becoming an NCAA Div. I letterman.

And what I did under those circumstances was nothing compared to a guy like KCTrack, who at 47 can still throw off a 100-mile week just for jollies.

I'm not trying to sound like some know-it-all old guy, but when you guys start calling 60 miles a week "high mileage" I feel an obligation to help readjust your thinking. For high school off-season training, "high mileage" to me starts at about 80-85 miles a week. "Moderate mileage" would be in the 60-70 mile a week range.

[GCHSRunner]

that is the one thing i think i am going to change about my training next winter. i was doing only maybe 15-20 miles a week this winter, but doing some more speed stuff. i only run the 400 and 800 however so i dont know if i need 60+ but i think i should be doing close to 60 next winter

[KS Roadrunna]

Why not this summer?? Why wait til Winter?

As long as you maintain some strength work & do accelerations on a regular basis... your speed will be just fine. & actually... if you don't race any lower than 400... your increased endurance alone... will help your times out.

I'm willing to bet you could at least get up to a 50 mile week this summer.

[one_more_mile]

Not many high school runners around here put in a lot of high mileage i think is what ccrunner meant.

[ccrunner101]

Not many high school runners around here put in a lot of high mileage i think is what ccrunner meant.

Yeah pretty much.

By no means was I saying high mileage is a bad thing. In past seasons I never got over 40 miles a week, but this winter I was up to about 60 gradually building it up. 70 is what I will shoot for this summer. One reason though that I never put in a lot of miles was that I couldn't motivate myself to run year round. This winter was the only time I put in some real miles before a season.

[KS Roadrunna]

We know not alot of guys are running "high mileage" around here. & that's part of the reason why we haven't seen someone run at Footlocker since '94.

There's nothing wrong with running 60 mpw... you can run pretty fast off that, but you have to consistently run quality miles over a long period of time... if you want to be fast. I hope you guys realize that.

I'm not sure what Weems is running in terms of mileage, but I'd imagine there isn't any more than one or two guys in the state running more than him.

I'm not trying to bust anyones balls, I only want to see what I know some of you & what the rest of Kansas really can offer.

[gtime1031]

and i think the reason most high schoolers dont' run that much is because they just don't have any knowledge about running and their coaches don't know much about running, because i know if i didnt run extra i would prolly only do like 20mpw during track or xc

[scooter]

highest point alex and i got to in xc was about 65mpw but that's about the same time my knee turned to crap. alex continued those for awhile, my situation just got worse. i aim to peak my mileage at 75-80 this summer for next xc season. there are various reasons for the lack of high mileage anymore. one being the commitment and dedication to the sport dwindling. i couldnt maintain it due injuries and alex has had his share of problems as well. it's amazing though how so many world class runners of the 50s-70s (present day studs as well...namely kenyans (not discounting other awesome guys as well who run a lot)) ran on such high mileage like 120mpw.

[KS Roadrunna]

Another thing with running higher mileage that you should take into consideration. Try to run as much of it on the grass as possible. It'll reduce your risk of injury & save your legs a ton of beating. If I'm on road runs, I always try to go for a flat grass surface next to the sidewalk or road.... first. & if there's a park or grass/ dirt trails around... i'd rather run on those any day.

[scooter]

we are bereft of adequate running surfaces around here. concrete or dirt roads as far as the eye can see, or clumpy grass that will lead to an ankle problem of a sort.

[KS Roadrunna]

I'm not going to argue with you... (Johnson right?) I just moved down to the "Taw" ... but I'd be willing to bet more money than you have that I can come up with a few places to run on softer surfaces around here.

In fact... I have my first Idea that I'm wanting to check out.... I'll be back in an hour.

[Wonder Bread]

As much as I hate to admit it, I don't think there is one right way to train. Sure there are certain workouts and what not that are similar between programs, but when it comes to mileage I'd say do as much as your body can handle. There's no doubt in my mind that the higher the mileage the better the results, but some people's bodies simply can't handle higher mileage and it'd becomes counterproductive to have a guy try to hit 80 to 90 miles a week if he's constantly injured. However, those that can handle such high mileage will get no benefit it it's at 9:00/mile pace. Ideally you wouldn't have to sacrifice quantity for quality or vice versa, instead you simply run quality higher mileage if you can.

That having been said, it does seem as though there is a bit of a stigma associated with high mileage and high school runners today worry that they can't handle it or they'll burn out. In my opinion it'll just take a few runners to take the chance and start training that way then others are sure to follow once they see the results that it produces.

I'm not quite sure how coherent that all was, since it was really me just throwing out random thoughts together on the topic, but hopefully that contributes some.

Oh yeah, we at East have Rost to thank for the reintroduction of higher mileage. He'd probably make some witty comment if I didn't add that disclaimer.

[scooter]

good point brock.

the only places off hand i can think of that have bona fide running surfaces are maybe chisholm trail park and the pawnee praire nature center(the thing near the airport and they usually have an xc series there). but they arent ideal places to do workouts because you have to take the concrete paths to get to them and in most parts you have to slow down to a crawl to navigate through the foliage. by all means i'm open to any and all suggestions. ahh i love colorado...so many trails and steep slopes. i'll either construct a rim rock style course in my backyard or have a home in colorado in addition to wherever i end up.

and yes i'm johnson

[GCHSRunner]

ive got a question for you guys running high mileage. when your doing this, are you runnin one long run a day, or two shorter runs per day? also, when your running this high mileage at what pace are your miles? i know i would prefer to run 4 miles at 6-6:30 pace then 6 miles at say 9 minutes pace, i feel like i get more out of it, im just curious as to what everyones opinions are on this

[Rome]

Actually you'd probably be getting more out of the 2nd one, even though it won't feel like it. I'm too lazy to explain why right now but it has to do with your heart rate. There's no doubt the 2nd one is better on most days.

[KS Roadrunna]

Alright... I just found a great place to run.

It's off Douglas, between Rock & Webb.... If you're heading towards Webb, it's on the right... consists of a large field, an area behind the YMCA & another skinny section along the road. I made a good 2 mile loop... just staying on the outside of it all. I could easily make a nice x-c course out there & the grass is very high quality... I'm talking you could run barefoot in most places. It is all mowed down very well also & is well kept.

I actually made up a 30 minute run.. starting from my house... & combined it with that... in which I was able to run on grass for probably 28 of the 30 minutes.

I'll keep looking for you guys. This was my first run back from my fibula fracture... & I didn't plan on running that long... but I was like screw it.. I'm taking one for the boys.

[scooter]

is that the south branch Y because if it's not i have no idea where you're talking about.

[KS Roadrunna]

It's the East Branch. If you took Douglass all the way west from East... you'd get to it. It's right by Raytheon.

The area behind the Y.. has a few soccer fields & a couple baseball fields.... which makes.... I just added that section... to the rest of the big field... I only had to cut down about 50 yards of asphalt/not as nice grass.... to add that section. You should check it out.... it's nothing huge... but it's a nice surface.

[one_more_mile]

Right now I plan on increasing my milage...I mean why wait till summer, of course when regionals and state track roll around it will be down but why wait any longer?

[Wonder Bread]

It's the East Branch. If you took Douglass all the way west from East... you'd get to it. It's right by Raytheon.

The area behind the Y.. has a few soccer fields & a couple baseball fields.... which makes.... I just added that section... to the rest of the big field... I only had to cut down about 50 yards of asphalt/not as nice grass.... to add that section. You should check it out.... it's nothing huge... but it's a nice surface.


I know which area you're talking about, but wasn't that pretty boring? I mean, is it just an open space or does it change up a bit? We do runs up Douglas but usually only go north of Douglas and never south, so I'm not exactly sure what that terrain is like.

Also one thing I've found is that if you're running in residential neighborhoods you can always run in the parking area of people's yards. Sure it's not ideal since it is short distances at a time and you have to change pace some going up and down curb, but as long as the people don't get mad it's better than nothing.

[KS Roadrunna]

Exactly... Even if it's just 25% grass... it's better than none.

The area isn't too bad... When you get out in the back... there's a lot of trees... & there's a pond. There is even a water fountain at a little gazzebo in the middle of it all. I had noticed a little bit of the grass area before... & after exploring it.... it's a bigger area than I thought. Its not trail running, but it's a start.

I'll try to keep finding different places every day. I want to try to run around some golf courses, but I'd probably have to either go first thing in the morning or at about 8:30 at night... when it's a bit safer.

[Zat0pek]

ive got a question for you guys running high mileage. when your doing this, are you runnin one long run a day, or two shorter runs per day? also, when your running this high mileage at what pace are your miles? i know i would prefer to run 4 miles at 6-6:30 pace then 6 miles at say 9 minutes pace, i feel like i get more out of it, im just curious as to what everyones opinions are on this

My opinion, based on 25 years of experience and study, is as follows: Whatever works best for you.

The keys, in my opinion, are variety, balance, and consistency. There are some programs around that treat 20-milers as though they were the Holy Grail, and I've seen kids take 18-milers in a week where they only ran 50-60 miles. The long run was over a third of their weekly mileage. For some physiological reasons that I won't bore you with, you do need a long run, but I'm a firm believer that it has to be proportional to your weekly mileage (around 20% or so of your total weekly mileage) or you give up too much in the rest of the week for the sake of that one run.

Two a days make it easier to get in higher mileage, and I think overall that's far more important than worrying excessively about whether you do it in singles or doubles.

Look at this as an example only, but it illustrates what I'm talking about in the offseason. If you get up and run 4 miles before school every morning (that takes all of what, 30 minutes or so running easy), that's twenty miles right there. Now lets say that afternoon workouts during the week vary from 6-10 miles, averaging just 8 miles. Thats a 12-mile a day average Monday through Friday, for 60 miles. Now throw in, say, a 14-mile long run on Saturday, and and easy 5-6 on Sunday as a recovery day. That's an 80 mile week.

Throw in a couple of sets of fast strides or short, steep hill repeats on full recovery, a threshold run, a fartlek or a set of long intervals like repeat miles as part of your afternoon workouts during the week, and you've got an 80 mile week schedule with a decent long run, a good variety of aerobic paces, and some sprint work. Do that for a few months in the off season, and you'll be as strong as a bull going into the season compared to anything you've done before.

[KevinM]

For those of you concerned with running surfaces, there are few better training grounds around than rural Kansas dirt roads. With the exception of those of you in Central Wichita or JoCo, it probably isn't more than a 5 minute drive to hit the grid of dirt roads that begin outside city limits of 90% of the towns in Kansas.

Yes, they're wide open, and no, there might not be a ton of variety. I am guessing, however, that as you raise your mileage, you won't really care about stunning scenery or things to look at on the run. If it's worth it to you, make the effort to get in the car and scout out some rural areas that have the types of terrain you are wanting for specific runs.

[Zat0pek]

For those of you concerned with running surfaces, there are few better training grounds around than rural Kansas dirt roads.

Couldn't agree more.

[one_more_mile]

This is a reason for me to say I'm glad to live in a small town. ALl I have to do is run down my street and Im basicly out of town. We have a lot of dirt roads and we also have some sand trials that you won't sink into 4 ft. For a long run, the sand is great.

[GCHSRunner]

thanks zat for the advice. last year was the first year i started doing stuff in the offseason for track, and this winter is the first year ive worked at it but i couldve done a lot more, i was more focused this year on getting my stride corrrected and my leg turnover up. i play football and so summers have been spent lifting weights and doing football workouts, but as ive gotten more serious with running and since thats what i want to do in college i feel i need to train year round. i plan on building myself up to over 60 miles a week this summer and trying to maintain some of it during football season. the advice from a guy whos been there and ran the high mileage is much appreciated

[scooter]

i have been pondering sneaking on to golf courses. it would be sweet to have like a 5 mile loop of grass they use for putting greens.

[barton_hurdler]

ive got a question for you guys running high mileage. when your doing this, are you runnin one long run a day, or two shorter runs per day? also, when your running this high mileage at what pace are your miles? i know i would prefer to run 4 miles at 6-6:30 pace then 6 miles at say 9 minutes pace, i feel like i get more out of it, im just curious as to what everyones opinions are on this

First off, where i have i been, cause when did the topic get switched from the KU Relays to running surfaces/distance running theory?

Anyways, the Coach Wetmore @ CU perfers to do what he calls "singles" one long run compared to two short runs. He also values the quality of the distance running, compared to quanity (he doesn't like 6 miles in 60 minutes like we used to run in hs)

Read the book "Running with the Bufffalos" great book for a lot of reasons, and see how wetmore trains his runners and what college cross country is all about.

[barton_hurdler]

Maybe not, but take a look at some dyestat articles about the top kids in the country, and you'll see that a majority of them are above 60mpw.

i wish i could go back and run cross again, even though i still love to hurdle cause i learned one lesson to late:

high milage=success

[drewliousceasar]

Read the book "Running with the Bufffalos" great book for a lot of reasons, and see how wetmore trains his runners and what college cross country is all about.


GREAT READ!!!!!

[KS Roadrunna]

Since when did anyone run 6 miles in 60 minutes in HS? From my experience coaching... I have a problem with my guys running too fast on the long runs. You have to beat it into their heads that they shouldn't be running 6 minute miles on a 6-10 miler.

[KevinM]

Mark Wetmore is obviously a tremendous coach and has accomplished more in his profession than all but a few coaches. Running With the Buffalos is a good book. Chris Lear does a great job for his first writing effort (much better than Sub-4).

All that being said, I think that many kids take RWTB to be a training guide of some sort. There's nothing wrong with that on the surface, but keep in mind the fact that Wetmore's translation of the Lydiard system is adapted for highly-talented collegiate runners (don't believe that no-talent at CU crap) who progress through the system.

Regarding "singles", which has become a sort of trendy word in the distance running world -- Wetmore himself has been interviewed saying that as there is a mileage threshold at which singles are no longer practical. I also think that doing two runs is a good way to let your body adapt to the mileage. As Zat pointed out, adding a 3-4 mile run (anything less isn't really worthwhile) before you head to school/work in the morning is an easy way to add an additional 12-20 miles to your training. Start out with 2-3 mornings a week, then progress to 5 after a month or so.

As with anything else, make sure you have a PROGRESSION. A general rule of thumb is to not increase your mileage more than 10% per week once in training. This allows the body a chance to gradually adapt to the increased training.

I also don't want this next point to be ignored -- WORK WITH YOUR COACH. Keep him/her filled in on changes you are making in your training, and continue to have faith in his/her methods, unless you intend to quit the team and train on your own. It's your training, but he's the boss. In most cases, a coach is going to be surprised and excited that an athlete is willing to make the effort to raise a level rather than trying to find the easiest way possible to get through 5k.

[Zat0pek]

I also don't want this next point to be ignored -- WORK WITH YOUR COACH. Keep him/her filled in on changes you are making in your training, and continue to have faith in his/her methods, unless you intend to quit the team and train on your own. It's your training, but he's the boss. In most cases, a coach is going to be surprised and excited that an athlete is willing to make the effort to raise a level rather than trying to find the easiest way possible to get through 5k.

Amen. I worked out my own off-season mileage progressions but my coach always knew what I was doing. He even let me design some of my in-season schedule my senior year. Most coaches are thrilled to have a highly motivated, driven and disciplined athlete and will bend over backwards to help them be as successful as possible.

[barton_hurdler]

Mark Wetmore is obviously a tremendous coach and has accomplished more in his profession than all but a few coaches. Running With the Buffalos is a good book. Chris Lear does a great job for his first writing effort (much better than Sub-4).

Agreed

[KevinM]

Glad you agree with that. The point of my post is what came after the "however", though. Not a Wetmore-bashing situation - just clarifying some things.

[Zat0pek]

I am NOT a "Wetmore basher". His success speaks for itself, and you don't build that unless you really know what you are doing.

But that also has to be balanced against the fact that he wasn't able to get one single athlete to the Olympic Trials healthy and ready to compete.

[one_more_mile]

It does always seem like one of his runners was hurt.

[Wonder Bread]

It does always seem like one of his runners was hurt.


Just one? In the book, didn't a couple of the guys they thought would run varsity for them end up injured and unable to compete? That just illustrates the negative side of high mileage if your body can't quite handle it or how it can just wear your body down.


Also, on the two-a-day topic, one thing that really has to be factored in is rest. Not to offend anyone but I hate it when people say you can get a 4 mile run done in 30 minutes or the "Runner's World Guide to Great Workouts Over Lunch". That never factors in stretching, showering, or simply random time within there that you aren't running. Therefore, two-a-days can really cut into your nightly rest and I think end up having a negative impact if you aren't careful and only get 5 hours of sleep or so (due to homework or other obligations). For me at least, it seems that a two-a-day every morning isn't feasible and can do more harm than good. I'm not saying they can't be beneficial, just that you can't add them in without seeing how it impacts other areas of your life and training.

[KS Roadrunna]

What I used to always do in HS... was run an EZ 3-4 miler with my neighbor at 6:30am (school was at 7:30)... then just take a quick shower & I'd already have my clothes ready to go.. it was an ez shakeout run & I didn't stretch afterwards.

During the summers... I swam at 7am every morning & ran on breaks when I was lifeguarding & after work late at nite when it was cooler.

[Zat0pek]

Also, on the two-a-day topic, one thing that really has to be factored in is rest. Not to offend anyone but I hate it when people say you can get a 4 mile run done in 30 minutes or the "Runner's World Guide to Great Workouts Over Lunch". That never factors in stretching, showering, or simply random time within there that you aren't running. Therefore, two-a-days can really cut into your nightly rest and I think end up having a negative impact if you aren't careful and only get 5 hours of sleep or so (due to homework or other obligations). For me at least, it seems that a two-a-day every morning isn't feasible and can do more harm than good. I'm not saying they can't be beneficial, just that you can't add them in without seeing how it impacts other areas of your life and training.

What I used to always do in HS... was run an EZ 3-4 miler with my neighbor at 6:30am (school was at 7:30)... then just take a quick shower & I'd already have my clothes ready to go.. it was an ez shakeout run & I didn't stretch afterwards.

During the summers... I swam at 7am every morning & ran on breaks when I was lifeguarding & after work late at nite when it was cooler.

Precisely right, KSRoadrunna. Morning runs are very, very easy. Roll out, pull on your shoes, two minutes of stretching and hit the road.

Wonder Bread, you're right that you have to balance rest and other things. You'll get no argument from me on that.

But allow me to re-adjust your thinking. If you REALLY want to be good, you don't adjust your running to your life. You adjust your life to your running.

In high school, I ran two-a-days and was in many other extra curricular activites. One day my junior year, I had the state forensics tournament in the morning, the league meet in the afternoon and opening night of the school play that evening, all on the same day. I wore my shorts under my suit to the forensics tournament, changed in the car on my way to the meet, then went straight to the play.

My point is that you can fit a LOT into your day if you are disciplined enough to do it and still get adequate sleep (which I have to have or I can't function).

[one_more_mile]

Getting enough sleep is my problem.

[KevinM]

You really can't get in bed by 10:30 each night? Make it a priority. It's probably the most overlooked aspect of training.

I don't think that Zat and I (or anyone else) are trying to sound holier-than-thou when we talk about training ideas. In fact, I know that for me (don't want to speak for Zat), many of the things we're saying here were learned the hard way. No one is professing to have done everything right.

That being said, I've always approached training/sacrifice this way:

Everyone has the right to focus as much or as little on track as they want to. However, the minute you decide to prioritize other things ahead of track (other than obvious ones such as family, church, school), you sign over your right to complain about how fast you are running.

I may have been lucky in that I moved to Emporia as a Soph. in HS, when running was already an enormous focus in my life. We had a dedicated coach and enough dedicated team members, so that became my primary social circle. I never had to explain to the guys why I didn't want to go to a party on a Friday night. They just understood.

[KS Roadrunna]

The tools are right here if you want to be a bad mama jama (special tacticts term... sorry)... so as far as I'm concerned I've done most of my job.... it's just up to you guys to make the decision on if you want to use them. I know I hate to lose, so if you don't mind getting beat, tell me & I'll stop giving advice.

[Zat0pek]

You really can't get in bed by 10:30 each night? Make it a priority. It's probably the most overlooked aspect of training.

I don't think that Zat and I (or anyone else) are trying to sound holier-than-thou when we talk about training ideas. In fact, I know that for me (don't want to speak for Zat), many of the things we're saying here were learned the hard way. No one is professing to have done everything right.

That being said, I've always approached training/sacrifice this way:

Everyone has the right to focus as much or as little on track as they want to. However, the minute you decide to prioritize other things ahead of track (other than obvious ones such as family, church, school), you sign over your right to complain about how fast you are running.

I may have been lucky in that I moved to Emporia as a Soph. in HS, when running was already an enormous focus in my life. We had a dedicated coach and enough dedicated team members, so that became my primary social circle. I never had to explain to the guys why I didn't want to go to a party on a Friday night. They just understood.

Kevin, it scares me a little how much we think alike on these subjects.

I made the decision during basketball my freshmen year that I was going to be a runner, and a runner only. I quit basketball and joined the Kansas City North Stars track club and never looked back.

Nobody ever asked why I was the first one to leave the party. We had to leave for Wichita for the State meet the morning after my high school graduation, so that meant no graduation parties for me. I shook hands with my classmates, wished them much success in the future, went home and went to bed. Its not like I don't know how to have fun and blow off steam. Feel free to review my post regarding a Big 8 party on the next page of this board lest you believe otherwise. But it was never allowed to adversely affect any aspect of my running, including sleep.

But I never saw things like that as a sacrifice. It just "was." Once you make the decision that you want to wring every last drop out of whatever talent you have been given, the rest just falls naturally into place.

I was working with a kid in the offseason (with the blessing of his high school coach, or I wouldn't do it) a few years ago. In late February, we were going to the track on a Saturday morning. When I woke up, it was 37 degrees and pouring rain. My only thought was "what do I need to wear?" I drove to his house to pick him up, and he was still in street clothes. He looked outside at the weather, and then at me with this blank look on his face like "what are you doing here?" That's when it hit me. It never occurred to me that we WOULDN'T run in those conditions. It never occurred to him that we WOULD. So I laid it out for him. If I was going to take my time to help him, and he wasn't any more disciplined than that, I was done. He got the message.

This aspect of the sport is amazingly simple. You either want to be good or you want this to be a hobby. Nobody really cares which one you pick.

What matters is that you are honest about your choice.

[scooter]

word up

[Wonder Bread]

Just to let you know, I realize that none of you older, more experienced guys are trying to say that you've done everything right and are perfect, disciplined machines. In fact, I wouldn't be posting or reading what you said if I thought you were. Sure you can get a lot done during the day and you must prioritize, I'm just saying that for myself I haven't been able to be quite as disciplined yet in all aspects of running, especially making sure I get enough sleep. I think that what it comes down to is that it is easier said than done and one has to develop that focus that will help him to reach his potential.

One other thing that I think also has a negative impact is that some runners, myself included, can fall into the habit of thinking that they only have to be as disciplined and dedicated as their competition, a "just enough" mindset. In fact the mind set should be to be as disciplined as you want to and are able to be. By doing this you not only set yourself up to achieve greater things but also push others as well. [Again, much easier said than done. . . . . . . and I'm still working on this one and probably will be for the rest of my life.]

[Wonder Bread]

Right, I kinda missed the memo and didn't realize there was a new thread so I guess just pretend that this is a response on the other advice thread and go from there.