Top seven teams in Utah

[JaredR]

Who would you all rank as the top seven girls and top seven boys teams in the state? I don't know all the teams as well as some of you do but I'd say:

Boys
1.Mountain View
2.Davis
3.Judge
4.American Fork
5.Bingham
6.Cedar
7.Provo

Girls
1.Fremont
2.Orem
3.Judge
4.Mountain View
5.Provo
6.Cedar
7.Jordan

make a deeper list if you want to. There are so many good girls teams this year it's nuts. And remember, this is just how I see the teams NOW. Next week, these lists may be much different.

[JaredR]

My list, pretty much the same at the top.

Boys
1.Mountain View
2.Davis
3.Judge
4.Skyline
5.Bingham
6.Provo
7.American Fork

Girls
1.Fremont
2.Judge
3.Orem
4.Provo
5.Mountain Crest
6.Mountain View
7.Cedar
I like your lists man. I'm not too familiar with Skyline boys and Mtn. Crest girls. I knew Mtn. Crest was one of the good girls teams. I'm pretty sure Mountain View girls are gonna clime the list a little. They'll be up there somewhere between Judge, Orem, and Provo, in my opinion. What about your boys team? Where would you rank them?

[propain]

My list, pretty much the same at the top.

Girls
1.Fremont
2.Judge
3.Orem
4.Provo
5.Mountain Crest
6.Mountain View
7.Cedar

Provo's not better than MV. the only time they beat MV was when their #3 girl didn't show up to the start of the race.....neither is Mountain Crest.

[JaredR]

Provo's not better than MV. the only time they beat MV was when their #3 girl didn't show up to the start of the race.....neither is Mountain Crest.
So then make a list. I want to see how you would rank the teams.

[JaredR]

I looked over some results and realized I definately left Park City and Mountain Crest off of my girls list. They both deserve to be on there.

[watchout]

Guys:
1 Mt. View
2 (tie) Davis and Judge ... I think Judge can run much better than they did at Kiwanis. See how their #1 runner was #2/3 that day? Also a much different spread that usual ... 28 seconds instead of the expected 40some?
4. Skyline
5. Provo
6. American Fork
7. Bingham

Girls:
1 Fremont.
.

[JaredR]

Girls:
1 Fremont.
.

haha, I'll second that. And Lexie Meyer is getting better every week.

[af runner]

haha im just wondering i dont have anything against you saying it except for its my team but why do you say that's laughable coach?

[propain]

with a healthy group of guys you are BETTER than Davis and Mountain View. But not right now. I even predicted AF top 20 in the country before the season began.



that's laughable.

[blue shoe]

There are a lot of tough girls teams this year.
I think 2 - 10 in 5a is wide open
5a rankings only:
1 fremont
2 weber - quiet this season - but I am calling an upset
3 mt view
4 spanish fork
5 american fork
6 jordan
7 davis
8 alta
9 skyline
10 timpanogos

individuals - cassie ricks (fremont), candace eddy (davis), kacee hildebrandt (lone peak), kim quinn (bingham), katie or jesse chugg (fremont), natalie haws (davis), sarah yingling (mt. view), haley reeves (weber), rachel webb (skyline) - that's 10

ps. AF boys being better than mt view and davis is definitely laughable

[watchout]

that's laughable.

he is a genius ;) maybe we should listen to him ...

nah.

[JaredR]

Prediction- Lil' Krystal Harper will run the fastest time at state, just a couple ticks faster than Cassie Ricks. Krystal Harper is one of those perpetual improvers, and anyone that's been around for a while knows that Harper kids really bring it all out at state.

[blue shoe]

will Krystal have to run the time all by herself? Or will there be someone there to push her? It seems like the 3 best runners are from 3 different divisions: Sam Gaffney, Cassie, and Krystal. Who can push themselves to the fastest time, and who will have the most competition?

[af runner]

haha no guys im not saying laughable beating mt view or davis, im just saying, we can still do good and be right up there, not exactly "with" them, but we can still put up a comp. We are still good overall at state. Sorry for that. Anyway. No tj isn't back to where he was, and mike was sick, but i think he's better. As a team though, besides tj, we aren't looking too bad. Not great of course or anything, just not bad. We can still do good, nothing like state champs, i didn't mean the laughable part like that sorry guys. But one thing East coach, i didn't really believe the times that you put up a couple weeks ago for your team, because that was perty fast if ya ask me, but i dunno. . .haha just wondering about the course they ran on and whatnot. thanks guys and again sorry

[JaredR]

will Krystal have to run the time all by herself? Or will there be someone there to push her? It seems like the 3 best runners are from 3 different divisions: Sam Gaffney, Cassie, and Krystal. Who can push themselves to the fastest time, and who will have the most competition?
Yeah, she'll have to do it herself. I think she'll do great on her own. She'll know her pace well, and she'll push it.

[Robert]

I haven't followed this year but Park city has its top four girls back from last year. Last year at the State meet, those four outscored Fremonts top four 81 to 83. I used the combined results from runner5card.com.

That being said. I find it highly unlikely that they are not in the top 3 teams this year.

[JaredR]

I haven't followed this year but Park city has its top four girls back from last year. Last year at the State meet, those four outscored Fremonts top four 81 to 83. I used the combined results from runner5card.com.

That being said. I find it highly unlikely that they are not in the top 3 teams this year.
You're right, they are certainly a top team in my opinion. I bet they'll be one of the five best overall at state.

[Wannabepre]

I was just checkin out the lists for top teams at state, whatever happened to East. I thought they were supposed to have a pretty wicked team this year? East coach dont you think that your team will do well, because i noticed that you didnt put them on your top ten list. :D

[af runner]

hey coach i guess we feel the same way on being underrated. . .

[JaredR]

Hey East Coach,
i was just seeing what you would say. I'm one of your runners, i just wanted to see how you think we are going to do. :D
How could you do such a thing to your own coach! He's gonna whoop on you come monday. ;)

[Wannabepre]

dang right he would if he new who it was and if we didnt have regions on wednesday. haha. Its for the best. i was just messin coach. :D

[Wannabepre]

hey this is a not argumentitive enviroment guys. hahaha.

[tgrunna]

Hey hawiianfiveoh, East hasn't proven everyone wrong! They're only the 10th best team in the state! There is no way that they went through 1.5 in 7:15. If that were the case Budge would have run his last half in 9:10. There is no way he was running under 6 min. pace the last half, and the rest of East's team would have been running well under 6 min. pace. I'm sick of the excuses as to why they would have done better in the 5A race. The fact is they were 2nd in a week 4A field, and 10th overall. Until they beat those 5A and 3A teams that ran faster, they are the 10th best team in the state!

[watchout]

going strickly by what they ran, Provo was only the #8 team in the state and East was the #10 team.

Giving them a 10 second drop - which is VERY generous ... I think it would be closer to 5-7 seconds difference at most - for what they MIGHT have run had they ran VERY well and started off slower, would give Provo #4 behind Judge, and would give East #6 behind American Fork.

Giving them a more accurate (in my opinion) 6 second drop would put Provo #6 behind Skyline (and not very far ahead of Brighton), and East #8 (halfway between Brighton and Lone Peak)

Additionally, if Judge ran their normal race ... (in my opinion, normal race would be something like: Gaitan close to Zabriskie (let's say 3 seconds behind him), Hirning 6 seconds behind Gaitan, Puskedra and Heckle 8 seconds behind Hirning, and Hindert 33 seconds behind them) ... that would give Judge 82.5 points ... halfway between Mt. View and Davis for #2 in the state.


So, MY opinion of what the top 7 teams really were:
1. Mountain View
2. Judge Memorial
3. Davis
4. American Fork
5. Skyline
6. Provo
7. Brighton

[dartman]

Additionally, if Judge ran their normal race ... (in my opinion, normal race would be something like: Gaitan close to Zabriskie (let's say 3 seconds behind him), Hirning 6 seconds behind Gaitan, Puskedra and Heckle 8 seconds behind Hirning, and Hindert 33 seconds behind them) ... that would give Judge 82.5 points ... halfway between Mt. View and Davis for #2 in the state.


So, MY opinion of what the top 7 teams really were:
1. Mountain View
2. Judge Memorial
3. Davis
4. American Fork
5. Skyline
6. Provo
7. Brighton
what the crap are you talking about? in MY opinion the top 7 teams really were the one's who ran the fastest, duh. how else are you supposed to say a team is better than another team? if you're gonna adjust judge's race to a "normal" race, you have to adjust everyone. davis wasn't going to beat mt. view but they sure "could have" run better. the last 2 races before state, davis' number two has been an average of 7 seconds behind jared ward, and their 3, 4, and 5 have all been an average of less than 30 seconds behind jared. jared ward ran 16:07 which means that in a "normal" race, patrick hall would have run 16:15, and the 3, 4, and 5 guys "would have" all run under 16:37. even if you say jared had a better race than he's had the last few meets, and you adjust the gap a little, davis still "would have" run better in a "normal" race. freak, davis is better than judge until judge runs faster than davis again - it's not a very hard concept to get.

[watchout]

what the crap are you talking about? in MY opinion the top 7 teams really were the one's who ran the fastest, duh. how else are you supposed to say a team is better than another team? if you're gonna adjust judge's race to a "normal" race, you have to adjust everyone. davis wasn't going to beat mt. view but they sure "could have" run better. the last 2 races before state, davis' number two has been an average of 7 seconds behind jared ward, and their 3, 4, and 5 have all been an average of less than 30 seconds behind jared. jared ward ran 16:07 which means that in a "normal" race, patrick hall would have run 16:15, and the 3, 4, and 5 guys "would have" all run under 16:37. even if you say jared had a better race than he's had the last few meets, and you adjust the gap a little, davis still "would have" run better in a "normal" race. freak, davis is better than judge until judge runs faster than davis again - it's not a very hard concept to get.

The title is "best teams" ... the best teams don't always run the fastest race every time.

Judge ran as a pack the entire race. That is why their times were so off-normal, because they just ran together. Davis, on the other hand, ran all-out. All of them.

Think what you want, but Judge was still the better team in my opinion. They dominated the race they were in without their top guys running to their abilities. Can Davis say that? Definately not.

[imslow]

i'm not so sure that judge ran together the whole race. it looked like gaitan was struggling to keep up with the Juan Diego kid (who eventually passed out and couldn't finish), and decided then to go back with the rest of his team, but it looked like he was struggling the whole race.

[dartman]

The title is "best teams" ... the best teams don't always run the fastest race every time.

sorry, my bad. it's just all my life i've watched cross country races and all my life i've been taught that the team that wins is better than the team that takes 2nd, the team that takes 2nd is better than the 3rd place team, etc. i just have always thought that in cross country, faster is better. davis beat judge the last time they raced head to head, and davis beat judge in the combined results from state. so maybe you should be a little bit different than most of the people on here and go by results and performances - things that actually happened, rather than just by what you think they "could have" run.

[gotigers]

So, MY opinion of what the top 7 teams really were:

Your opinion of what the top 7 teams really were doesn't matter. Who cares how teams could have run. State is the end all be all for 2005 utah cross country. There is nothing else left. The results reflect how good teams are.

The End

[watchout]

Your opinion of what the top 7 teams really were doesn't matter. Who cares how teams could have run. State is the end all be all for 2005 utah cross country. There is nothing else left. The results reflect how good teams are.

The End

did I ever say my opinion mattered? I'm pretty sure I didn't.

[watchout]

sorry, my bad. it's just all my life i've watched cross country races and all my life i've been taught that the team that wins is better than the team that takes 2nd, the team that takes 2nd is better than the 3rd place team, etc. i just have always thought that in cross country, faster is better. davis beat judge the last time they raced head to head, and davis beat judge in the combined results from state. so maybe you should be a little bit different than most of the people on here and go by results and performances - things that actually happened, rather than just by what you think they "could have" run.

and I have always been taught that
a) teams that don't run against eachother don't really tell you who is better
b) the team that dominates is the better team
c) if a team isn't running all-out, it isn't their real potential
d) every teams have their off-days
e) one race never tells the whole story



and did I ever say that the results didn't happen? I'm pretty sure I didn't. I'm pretty sure I was just saying my opinion on what teams were better. Not that it means a lot, but I felt like giving my opinion. Yes, in combined results Davis was clearly the 2nd best team in the state. Congrats on their race. I wasn't trying to take anything away from them.

[dartman]

and I have always been taught that
a) teams that don't run against eachother don't really tell you who is better
b) the team that dominates is the better team
c) if a team isn't running all-out, it isn't their real potential
d) every teams have their off-days
e) one race never tells the whole story

ok, that's fine that you think judge is better than davis. seriously, i really mean it. i don't care about that. i just don't understand your reasoning for thinking they're better:
a) the last time judge and davis ran against each other was at kiwanis where davis beat judge. you're only as good as your last race, and that was the last time those two teams raced.
b) so davis would have had to dominate mt. view to be considered better than judge? sheesh, i'm just glad mt. view dominated davis so you're not trying to say judge is better than mt. view too.
c) if a team isn't running all-out at the state meet, especially when the state meet is going to be their last race (not going to NTN), then that team has some serious issues.
d) good point, davis had definitely run better at other meets
e) what's the whole story?

[pianoman]

c) if a team isn't running all-out, it isn't their real potential
Physically? yes. But mentally....

You have to be able to run hard to be successful in cross-country. That is what this sport is all about.
"A lot of people run a race to see who is fastest. I run to see who has the most guts, who can punish himself into exhausting pace, and then at the end, punish himself even more. Nobody is going to win a 5,000 meter race after running an easy 2 miles. Not with me. If I lose forcing the pace all the way, well, at least I can live with myself." -Prefontaine

[watchout]

ok, that's fine that you think judge is better than davis. seriously, i really mean it. i don't care about that. i just don't understand your reasoning for thinking they're better:
a) the last time judge and davis ran against each other was at kiwanis where davis beat judge. you're only as good as your last race, and that was the last time those two teams raced.
b) so davis would have had to dominate mt. view to be considered better than judge? sheesh, i'm just glad mt. view dominated davis so you're not trying to say judge is better than mt. view too.
c) if a team isn't running all-out at the state meet, especially when the state meet is going to be their last race (not going to NTN), then that team has some serious issues.
d) good point, davis had definitely run better at other meets
e) what's the whole story?

My reasoning for thinking they are better is simply because I don't think Davis was as good as they were. Yes, Davis beat Judge at Kiwanis, too. That might have been Davis' best race? I don't know. I don't think it was Judge's best race, but that is ok.

Davis wouldn't have had to dominate Mt. View to be viewed as better than Judge. I was saying that Judge dominated their race, they didn't run to their potential ... don't you think they could have done better? My personal opinion is that yes, they could have done better, and that they PROBABLY could have finished between Mt. View and Davis. That's my take on it. I never once said that I thought Mt. View wasn't as good as Judge, you are taking this a bit to the extreme...

and finally, yes, I would have liked to seen Judge actually run the race all-out. Apparently, from what I am guessing, their coach wanted them to run in a pack to help out their back runners to make sure that they wouldn't have a bad race, and thus ensure their state championship. I don't know if that was the case, but that is my take on what happened based solely on those results and their previous results. They did what they had to do to win their race, and that was all that mattered to them because they didn't have a shot at NTN anyways. I don't think they were worried about how they looked compared to the 5A and 4A teams, they just wanted to win their race and take home the gold.

[runnerstrong]

Its all about peaking, Davis was not all hype...they did peak two weeks too early. A lesson that will not be to easily learned.

I thought Judge peaked too early also and road their talent (depth) into state...but they weren't improving at all the final month.

Houle has it down at Mt. View. So does East, man they came on the last few weeks.I still can not believe they beat all those 4A schools considering they hadn't beaten them before, aka,Springville, Woods Cross, OREM!!!, and boy did Provo hang on for dear life.

To think East was #1 through 4 and had 3 in before Provo's#2. If James Mack had been on the team perhaps things would have turned out differently for them, oh you didn't know. East's #4 man got suspended from the team 3 days before the state meet. What a blow.

Best finish since 1977 when they won, thats almost 30 years. I think those coaches know what they are doing, they did something in 7 months time. East was a different team. Who were all those (African's?) following East's coach around at state? A freshman, sophomore recruiting class?

Also, a shout out to St. Joseph's of 1A! Where did that title come from? What a race, you guys got beat all year and to turn it on like that in a big race, wow.

[gotigers]

oh didn't you know provo's number 1 was injured. So maybe they held on for dear life, but that was without a key runner. Secondly, this wasn't a very competitive year for 4a, but still congrats to east because those guys improved a lot. That is always commendable.