800 question

[trojanrunna]

If you can even split a certain time, should you be able to run faster?

[RunforFun]

If you can even split a certain time, should you be able to run faster?

depends if you mean a relay split, or a split en route to a longer distance (ex: 1500m split en route to a 1600m finish). If you mean the first, no. Relay splits are usually considered to be slower than what you can actually run in an open race, because you have a running start. For a split en route... duh you'll go faster with less distance to run.

[slowest kid on the team]

i dont think thats what he meant. if you meant that if you run 2:00 with two 60 splits then i think you can run a little faster because most 800's ive ever seen ,from high school to profesional, have been positive splited. In the 8 i think it helps to get out hard.

[AMBULOPHOBIA]

RunforFun - relays are considered faster cause u get a running start(especially for sprints) and all that baton hand off and catching people and what not

i usually do even splits in everything including the 8....i never feel like going out hard...i'll try it one of these days in the 8 (i used to go out like maniac but it hurts...and i run slower...im a pussy i admit it)

[trojanrunna]

yeah yesterday i ran a 2:04 with splits of 62, 62. i want to get under 2 this season and i think it might just happen. i've been PRing by about two seconds for the past few races.

[runningincirclesinMS]

dunno if this has any meaning or not, but I've been trying to break 5 in the 1600 forever. I would always go out pretty conservatively and try and run even, and I never really got very close. yesterday, I accidentally went out in 67 and PR'd by 9 seconds. so, who knows whether that means anything or not.

[trojanrunna]

dunno if this has any meaning or not, but I've been trying to break 5 in the 1600 forever. I would always go out pretty conservatively and try and run even, and I never really got very close. yesterday, I accidentally went out in 67 and PR'd by 9 seconds. so, who knows whether that means anything or not.
if you're not running in an experienced field, sometimes going out hard is the only way to do it. otherwise your first quarter may be on pace, but if you're staying with everbody else and they slow down, you're not gonna get back into it.

[NJ5k]

It's the only way for me to run a good time in the 800. I don't have the extended legspeed to run a 63 then come back in a 63, so I have to use my turnover on the first lap in 60-61 then hope my lungs can carry me through the line in a 66 or so.

[backtoback]

Trojanrunner,
If you can run 2:04 off of 62's and your goal is to break 2:00 I highly suggest that you go out in 58. Most 800's at the HS level for guys around your time are run ideally with a 3-4 second differential from 1st lap to 2nd lap. With a 58 you are looking at 2secs..This might help: What do you run for the open 400, 1600, 2mile? That will give an idea of what type of runner you are and what pace you can handle

[runningincirclesinMS]

also, from my limited experience with the 800, I've found that going out at a reasonable pace for 300 meters and then basically going all out for the next 500 works well. there are basically 2 ways to run an 800, get out fast, which most people do, or try and use all the people who go out fast and rell them in over the last 3-500 meters. my personal preference is the latter.

basically, less pacing, more racing.

[Burned_in_Style]

Positive splitting is the way to go. Two weeks ago i split 60.5 and 60.2 (2:00.7) and this past weekend i went out hard in 55.9 and came back in 60.9 which gave me a 1:56.8

[trojanrunna]

goddam thats fast/big improvement.

[VoidSix]

Easy question.

You think if you tried to pace a 200, and go out slow for the first 100, you would run a PR? No, because when you got to the line you wouldn't be as tired as you should be because you didn't have enough time in the last half of the race to use all your energy.

It's the exact same thing in the 800. If you go out too slow, you won't have the time in the last 400 to make up all the ground you lost going out slow.

Unless you know your body INCREDIBLY well, going out too hard is the absolute only way to insure that use all the energy you possibly can.

I run 2:00 or 2:01 usually, but I ALWAYS get out in 57.

[CL XC runner05]

It's the only way for me to run a good time in the 800. I don't have the extended legspeed to run a 63 then come back in a 63, so I have to use my turnover on the first lap in 60-61 then hope my lungs can carry me through the line in a 66 or so.

I have to take mine out in 59/58 then try to come back in a 65/66 in the relay. I've got the same problem with foot speed.

[Sully 800]

my teammate does best on BIG positive splits. He has gone low 1:57 twice, with his first 400 in 53.X and second 400 in 63.X....When he has tried to go out more conservatively, around 56-57 he has run 1:58-2:00.

[Dillerho]

Last Saturday I negative split (60.5, 59.4) for a 1:59.9. Tomarrow I'm going to try going out in 57-58.

[RBroady]

personally getting out is very important for an 800

a few weeks ago in a dual meet, i ran 60, 60 and ran a 2:00

4 days later i went out in 55, returned in 62, and ran a 1:57

i would say if you can run even splits, try to go 4-5 seconds faster on your first lap and it will help a lot

[trojanrunna]

Trojanrunner,
If you can run 2:04 off of 62's and your goal is to break 2:00 I highly suggest that you go out in 58. Most 800's at the HS level for guys around your time are run ideally with a 3-4 second differential from 1st lap to 2nd lap. With a 58 you are looking at 2secs..This might help: What do you run for the open 400, 1600, 2mile? That will give an idea of what type of runner you are and what pace you can handle
i've run 26 in the 200, 57 low in the 4 by 4, 4:44 in the 1600, and 10:52 in the 3200. the 3200 and i do not get along anymore. anyways, i was rabbiting a quartermiler in an 800 yesterday and accidently went out 5 seconds fast in a 58/59. i felt extremely relaxed, so maybe in a race situation i can run another 59-61. we'll find out tomorrow.

[trojanrunna]

2:06, but thats alot better than it seems. out in 58/59, 1:30 with 200 to go. it was windy as anything and i led for the entire race except the last hundred, when some kid passed me.

[WoodRunner]

I agree with most of what's been said. I've never split a faster second lap, it's so hard to keep sprinting like that for so long. Even if you look at the incredible college guys who run 1:48, they always go out in like 52 and come back in 56. Personally I've only broken 2 once, after already running a 4:25 that day. I was out in 58 high - 59 low and almost died running a 60 on my second lap, but I was pushing harder and felt faster than on my first lap. Definitely gonna go out in 57 at the slowest next time.

Also, push that third 200, thats when everyone else will be resting from going out hard. Then use your nuts and guts to get to the finish line.

[el corredor]

if you want to go sub-2:00 on the 800, even splits is virtually impossible. you can't tell me you can go out in 60, then run a 59.9. its much easier to go something like 56 then 63. trust me, we had a kid on our team go sub-2:00 for the first time going out in 55 then closing in 64. then again, he did break his leg a month later. :rolleyes:

[GCHSRunner]

i ran 59 59 last week for a PR 1:58. im looking to run in the 1:52-1:54 range at state in 3 weeks, where i know the race will go out in 54 and then try and come back in 58 or 59. so i know its not impossible to run even splits. in fact as a freshman my first race i ran 62 61 for a 2 03 and it took me all year to break that because i kept going out in 58 or 59 then wasnt strong enough to come back with another good lap. also, i think going out in 56 with someone leading you is about as hard as going out in 59 running all by yourself

[therunnernextdoor]

While it is the practice of 800m runners on TV to go through the first lap of an 800m race at suicidal speeds, this is always followed by a much slower lap, if this were not the case, the world record at present would have been shattered long ago. Viz., 48 secs first 400, 56 secs second 400 = 1:44; 50 secs first 400, 54 secs second 400 = 1:44.The facts are that such running is physiologically unsound (uneconomical). The safe margin is to cover the first lap not faster than four seconds off your best 400m time. e.g. Best 400m time/55 secs, first lap 59 secs. Then, the third 200m segment should see increased effort, this will not necessarily be an increase in speed, in reality it will be a maintenance of speed. The first man to break 1:50/800, in 1932, ran 54.7 and 54.8. The world indoor 800m record was achieved with a 52 secs first lap and a 52.3 sec lap. Level pace running is not level effort running, it is increased effort running. It must be learned. One way to learn it is to run to a time-signalled schedule in training for as long as possible. If the target is 1 min 52 sec, this will be 14 sec per 100m (14-28-42-56-70-84-98-112 sec). If this rehearsal is 13 sec per 100m at any point in the first lap, the target will not be achieved. An oxygen debt is incurred too soon. Many runners have the ability to race a better 800m. Its execution is often the major hindrance.
-Frank Horwill-

Also the guy that won the Olympics last summer ran even splits of 53!

[XC08]

Ok, well all your times are fast (comapred to me) and well this week i ran my first race since mid indoor season due to injury.. i had about 6 days of training after several months and ran 2:25. But my question is, my first 400 is faster then the other.. not just this week, but all the time.. i usually try to run even and split 70 but then 74.. yea it is terrible, but my question is...

Should I try to go out in like 65 and then just try to hang on with a 74 (hopefully faster)? Now my 2:25 is about 2 seconds slower than my PR, so I feel I can go MUCH faster while in god condition. After the race i couldn't walk due to 5 days of training and then going all out without running for several months. So I'm thinking if I try to go out in 65 and just hang on with a 75 it will get me down to 2:20.. Is it worth a try?

[trojanrunna]

you killed my thread! just playin... thats a huge positive split. go through the quarter in like 67, 68 and push that 3rd 200. so long as the wind isn't in front of you on the home stretch, the rest will take care of itself, especially if you're within reach of passing/being passed by someone.

[JScott]

Yea, actually during indoor I was around 2:25, and I remember my first "breakout" race (others would call it my first slightly less pathetic race)... It was leading off for our 4x800, and I don't remember my splits exactly, but it's all about getting some miles on and pushing the 3rd 200, I remember making my first big decision in that race ("Theres still 2 laps to go, but I'm going to stay with these guys through this lap no matter what the cost.") It ended up bringing me down to a 2:17, and suddenly I start to feel better, because, you know, I realize for the rest of my carreer, as long as I'm racing the 800 in VT no one's going to beat me by more than 100 meters...

[Cheese]

I never seemed to run the 800 well. My pr is off a 64 1st lap and 63 2nd lap for 2:07. I plan on going out faster in the future.