More Barry Bonds

[gesser]

Breaking News on ESPN.

Bonds is being investigated by the gov't in a tax fraud scandal.

So not only is he a cheater, he could eventually be a convicted felon. What a guy.

"I Love Barry Bonds"-TrackDaddy

[78Champ]

Was it regarding his investing in Flax Seed Oil?

JW

[gesser]

Was it regarding his investing in Flax Seed Oil?

JW


Haha. I dk. All I know is this guy might have been cheating the gov't on taxes...thusly cheating poor kids of a money for schools. It's all about the kids.

[exjersey1]

Well, it probably hasn't helped his cause any when it came out that he used undeclared income from card shows/memorabilia sales to buy his girlfriend a house. Don't remember if he completed the trifecta by being married at the time or if he was seeing her in between wives.

[TrackDaddy]

:rolleyes:

So now America cares?

Barry is a ROLE MODEL compared to other legendary baseball players.

Micky Mantle was a wild partying, womanizing lush who on his best days was drunk out of his mind.

He LITERALLY drank himself to death.

Babe Ruth was a gluttonous, womanizing drunk who was infected with chronic venereal disease that he contracted from his deplorable, despicable lifestyle.

Of course he's universally loved and known affectionately as..."The Babe."

LOL

Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, Ty Cobb, Darryl Strawberry, Steve Howe, etc...?

Of course I knew you you hypocrites would run from the TRUTH that I posted in the other thread so...I decided to bring it over here for your convenience.

LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackDaddy
You think I love Bonds Because he's black?

LOL...naw, dog.

Jesse Jackson is black too, but I have no use for him.

Why do you always bring up race, Dye?

Can't you get past the fact that Bonds is black?

But...since you seem to want to HEAR the TRUTH and you did bring it up...let me ask...

Would Bonds be hated this much if he were white setting these records?

THERE WERE OVERWHELMING signs of steroid use pointed TOWARDS McGwire (including a strategically planted bottle of Andro in his locker that he INTENDED for the media to see so he could claim a "legal" excuse) for practically his entire career... and he STILL OWNED America while he played.

Big Mac= Former Owner of the USA.

Everybody screaming..."Big Mac this, and Big Mac that." Blah, blah, blah....while Sosa rode shotgun.

Nevermind that McGwire was surly, temperamental and rude.

Nevermind that he couldn't field, throw, steal bases, hit for average, or do anything associated with baseball but stand on first base, catch the ball and hit the occasional hr.

He was Our Beloved Big Mac. What a guy. I can still see him holding his kid, while waving his lying hand to the fans.

He was a stiff who hit homers with a 'roided up body while everyone made excuses for him.

Even the media. They tell us who to like, you know.

But do you know who the media hated the most besides Bonds....all those years? Canseco.

While Big Mac, his limited skills, all the signs and whispers about his drug use, and his undesireable attitude....got a free pass.

Of course, if he hadn't been able to hit homers, he'd have been paid a whole lot less money, if not put out of the majors all together.

See...he couldn't manufacture runs any other way.

How do you think Big Mac would have been received had he been black?

What about now that he has gone before Congress in one of the most disgraceful displays of evasive testimony in Congressional testimony history and ultimately KICKED everyone IN THE GROIN who ever yelled in adoration...."Big Mac!"

EVEN BEFORE that hearing, with Canseco's book already out, all the hot rumors surrounding baseball, the andro thing, his refusal to comment on Canseco's book except a deceptive insinuation, AND ALL THE OTHER SIGNS that he was doper....

Big Mac still had a free pass in his pocket courtesy of good 'ol Uncle Sam and all his nieces and nephews.

See...the media spun it so that Canseco would STILL be the bad guy. This time for exposing the dopers. Namely Big Mac.

How do you think the media would've responded to Canseco's book had Bonds been the focus of it?

That's right, Mabel. Canseco would've been a hero for exposing a cheat. Canseco said from the very beginning that Mac was lying and that the truth would come out about him. And now that it has...where's the vindication for Canseco?

I guarantee you that whenever he comes out of his rat hole from hiding he he'll be forgiven and voted to the HOF.

And he couldn't even play the game. Not...The whole game...like Bonds.

700/500....the GOAT.

WHACK!

Bonds is closing in on Babe "Overrated" Ruth (not the candy...it's great).

Here we have this GREAT COMPLETE PLAYER. Certainly better than Big Mac in EVERY WAY.

And besides the fact that he doesn't get free passes....His Uncle hates him and his cousins do too.

Why, pray tell, do you suppose that he's so hated by so many.... but McGwire EVEN NOW...still isn't?

DOUBLE WHACK!! :D

[KenA55]

I can't see any justification for glorifying McGwire or Bonds. As far as the legends about the old-timers go, I don't really see what bearing any of that has on their game on the field, certainly not as far as enhancing it goes. I certainly have seen the effects of doping on the game, however. Multiple guys hitting 60+ hr's a season multiple seasons in a row? Get real. Might just as well build hitting machines and put them out there and call the results all-time records. Nobody in the recent mess gets consideration in my book. We have an era when everything is suspect. No point in taking all-timers from the time period in question.

[gesser]

:rolleyes:

So now America cares?

Barry is a ROLE MODEL compared to other legendary baseball players.

Micky Mantle was a wild partying, womanizing lush who on his best days was drunk out of his mind.

He LITERALLY drank himself to death.

Babe Ruth was a gluttonous, womanizing drunk who was infected with chronic venereal disease that he contracted from his deplorable, despicable lifestyle.

Of course he's universally loved and known affectionately as..."The Babe."

LOL

Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, Ty Cobb, Darryl Strawberry, Steve Howe, etc...?

Of course I knew you you hypocrites would run from the TRUTH that I posted in the other thread so...I decided to bring it over here for your convenience.

LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackDaddy
You think I love Bonds Because he's black?

LOL...naw, dog.

Jesse Jackson is black too, but I have no use for him.

Why do you always bring up race, Dye?

Can't you get past the fact that Bonds is black?

But...since you seem to want to HEAR the TRUTH and you did bring it up...let me ask...

Would Bonds be hated this much if he were white setting these records?

THERE WERE OVERWHELMING signs of steroid use pointed TOWARDS McGwire (including a strategically planted bottle of Andro in his locker that he INTENDED for the media to see so he could claim a "legal" excuse) for practically his entire career... and he STILL OWNED America while he played.

Big Mac= Former Owner of the USA.

Everybody screaming..."Big Mac this, and Big Mac that." Blah, blah, blah....while Sosa rode shotgun.

Nevermind that McGwire was surly, temperamental and rude.

Nevermind that he couldn't field, throw, steal bases, hit for average, or do anything associated with baseball but stand on first base, catch the ball and hit the occasional hr.

He was Our Beloved Big Mac. What a guy. I can still see him holding his kid, while waving his lying hand to the fans.

He was a stiff who hit homers with a 'roided up body while everyone made excuses for him.

Even the media. They tell us who to like, you know.

But do you know who the media hated the most besides Bonds....all those years? Canseco.

While Big Mac, his limited skills, all the signs and whispers about his drug use, and his undesireable attitude....got a free pass.

Of course, if he hadn't been able to hit homers, he'd have been paid a whole lot less money, if not put out of the majors all together.

See...he couldn't manufacture runs any other way.

How do you think Big Mac would have been received had he been black?

What about now that he has gone before Congress in one of the most disgraceful displays of evasive testimony in Congressional testimony history and ultimately KICKED everyone IN THE GROIN who ever yelled in adoration...."Big Mac!"

EVEN BEFORE that hearing, with Canseco's book already out, all the hot rumors surrounding baseball, the andro thing, his refusal to comment on Canseco's book except a deceptive insinuation, AND ALL THE OTHER SIGNS that he was doper....

Big Mac still had a free pass in his pocket courtesy of good 'ol Uncle Sam and all his nieces and nephews.

See...the media spun it so that Canseco would STILL be the bad guy. This time for exposing the dopers. Namely Big Mac.

How do you think the media would've responded to Canseco's book had Bonds been the focus of it?

That's right, Mabel. Canseco would've been a hero for exposing a cheat. Canseco said from the very beginning that Mac was lying and that the truth would come out about him. And now that it has...where's the vindication for Canseco?

I guarantee you that whenever he comes out of his rat hole from hiding he he'll be forgiven and voted to the HOF.

And he couldn't even play the game. Not...The whole game...like Bonds.

700/500....the GOAT.

WHACK!

Bonds is closing in on Babe "Overrated" Ruth (not the candy...it's great).

Here we have this GREAT COMPLETE PLAYER. Certainly better than Big Mac in EVERY WAY.

And besides the fact that he doesn't get free passes....His Uncle hates him and his cousins do too.

Why, pray tell, do you suppose that he's so hated by so many.... but McGwire EVEN NOW...still isn't?

DOUBLE WHACK!! :D


I'm not the most moral guy in the world, but you're basically trying to rationalize cheating on taxes. And then you try to rationalize every other transgression.

It's a pretty serious crime, because when you're making a lot of money, like he is, you're cheating your fellow Americans.

And btw, being a womanizer and drinker is no crime. You say it like it's a huge crime.

[exjersey1]

TD, probably without realizing it you have clearly identified yourself as a racist, at least on this topic.

You can play your little word games with dyenimator and others about who brought up the word race first all you want but you clearly led the charge toward that. And if you truly don't "love Bonds because he's black" you've made it patently obvious that you dislike/disrespect/hate Ruth merely because he's white.

Not to mention your new McGwire tirade. Where do you get off simply assuming that everyone here idolizes/idolized him? Because you figure that most of the posters here being of the caucasian persuasion that we'd all "stick with our own kind" like you are with Bonds?

You're out of control on this; you need to step back a little and gain some perspective.

[TrackDaddy]

I can't see any justification for glorifying McGwire or Bonds. As far as the legends about the old-timers go, I don't really see what bearing any of that has on their game on the field, certainly not as far as enhancing it goes. I certainly have seen the effects of doping on the game, however. Multiple guys hitting 60+ hr's a season multiple seasons in a row? Get real. Might just as well build hitting machines and put them out there and call the results all-time records. Nobody in the recent mess gets consideration in my book. We have an era when everything is suspect. No point in taking all-timers from the time period in question.Glorify?

My point is that nobody is perfect, but America seems to be very selective in whom they will allow to make a mistake.

Barry Bonds is NO MORE guilty than Tom House a pitcher from the '60's who recently admitted that he used drugs and said that everyone else was doing it too. IN THE '60's!!!

Or Jim Haslet the New Orleans saints coach who said that he used steroids while playing for the Steelers in the 70's and that a lot of other people were doing it too.

Or Arnold Schwarnegger who admitted to using steroids while competing in body building.

Or Jason Giambi and Mark McGwire who collectively don't suffer the ridicule and persecution of Bonds.

Or Lance Armstrong who's also been accused on SEVERAL occasions of using drugs and who (like Bonds) has done INCREDIBLE THINGS (not to mention surviving cancer) never done before in his sport amid those allegations.

Or Lenny Dykstra whose alsoo been accused of using 'roids.

Or Bill Romanowski who recently was held liable for ending a teammates career in a violent roid rage assault.

But Barry Bonds is MOST hated.

Why?

Barry is accused of doing what we NOW KNOW alot of players did during a period when such was the culture. Steroids.

It is what it is. Let it go and move on.

Why is he the only one getting the blame?

I know the answer, and so do you.

[TrackDaddy]

TD, probably without realizing it you have clearly identified yourself as a racist, at least on this topic.

You can play your little word games with dyenimator and others about who brought up the word race first all you want but you clearly led the charge toward that. And if you truly don't "love Bonds because he's black" you've made it patently obvious that you dislike/disrespect/hate Ruth merely because he's white.

Not to mention your new McGwire tirade. Where do you get off simply assuming that everyone here idolizes/idolized him? Because you figure that most of the posters here being of the caucasian persuasion that we'd all "stick with our own kind" like you are with Bonds?

You're out of control on this; you need to step back a little and gain some perspective.No, I don't agree, Ex.

Dye CONTINUED to accuse me of being racist because I support Bonds.

So...I turned it around to make him think.

He wouldn't know racism if it slapped him in the face.

But I do.

The McGwire deposition that I wrote above is intended to show him...THE TRUTH!

It's been on these boards FOR DAYS now.

And no one can refute it.

There is a double standard when it comes to media portrayals and athletes who make mistakes...but I can assure you that Bonds isn't the one who benefits from it.

[TrackDaddy]

I'm not the most moral guy in the world, but you're basically trying to rationalize cheating on taxes. And then you try to rationalize every other transgression.

It's a pretty serious crime, because when you're making a lot of money, like he is, you're cheating your fellow Americans.

And btw, being a womanizer and drinker is no crime. You say it like it's a huge crime.Bonds, although no more guilty than any of the other people accused of steroids, was being targeted with hate LONG before the tax thing came up.

Whoever hated Ken Caminiti?

[exjersey1]

Glorify?


Barry Bonds is NO MORE guilty than Tom House a pitcher from the '60's who recently admitted that he used drugs and said that everyone else was doing it too. IN THE '60's!!!


It is what it is. Let it go and move on.

Why is he the only one getting the blame?

I know the answer, and so do you.

Tom House has already "clarified" his statement about other players drug use.
House says he misspoke (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/05/05/steroids.tom.house.ap/)

And according to YOU Bonds is the only one getting the blame. But even if we assume for a moment that you're correct on that, why are you defending him? If it was okay for him to juice, then it should also have been okay for the guys like McAndro & Sosa that you're knocking down. If Ruth was a bad boy for being a womanizer, then so is Bonds; at least Ruth didn't buy a house for one of his mistresses.

[gesser]

Bonds, although no more guilty than any of the other people accused of steroids, was being targeted with hate LONG before the tax thing came up.

Whoever hated Ken Caminiti?

Is Ken Caminiti breaking records of legends? No, so no one gives two sh!ts.

[TrackDaddy]

Tom House has already "clarified" his statement about other players drug use.
House says he misspoke (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/05/05/steroids.tom.house.ap/)

And according to YOU Bonds is the only one getting the blame. But even if we assume for a moment that you're correct on that, why are you defending him? If it was okay for him to juice, then it should also have been okay for the guys like McAndro & Sosa that you're knocking down. If Ruth was a bad boy for being a womanizer, then so is Bonds; at least Ruth didn't buy a house for one of his mistresses.I'm only defending Bonds because what has occurred with steroids is far from his issue alone.

What happened...happened.

It was/is a culture in many sports and he isn't the only one to blame.

But you'd think he was the guy who invented them.

And the reason you haven't heard more players come out against him is because they know that their closets are dirty too.

Not many MLB players past or present have had much criticism.

Think about that.

[exjersey1]

Is Ken Caminiti breaking records of legends? No, so no one gives two sh!ts.

TrackMommy thinks anyone who doesn't grovel at Bonds' feet and glorify him as the greatest who ever laced them up hates him.


Guess the rest of the baseball fans in the universe aren't allowed to make choices about their favorite player(s).


Pretty sad to have to go through life where things are love/hate, black/white, great/lousy, and no shades in between.

[TrackDaddy]

Is Ken Caminiti breaking records of legends? No, so no one gives two sh!ts.Exactly.

But he was an NL MVP.

So the objective is to discredit everything Bonds has done as though steroids made it all possible.

Look at everyone in baseball who you know has used steroids...who comes close to Bonds?

Close?

No one.

He's always been a complete player in every way.

People exaggerate the roid thing when it comes to Bonds because Babe Ruth is going down.

[TrackDaddy]

TrackMommy thinks anyone who doesn't grovel at Bonds' feet and glorify him as the greatest who ever laced them up hates him.


Guess the rest of the baseball fans in the universe aren't allowed to make choices about their favorite player(s).


Pretty sad to have to go through life where things are love/hate, black/white, great/lousy, and no shades in between.Who's hated more...

Bonds...or McGwire?

Why?

That's easy...McGwire isn't "hated" at all.

[gesser]

Who's hated more...

Bonds...or McGwire?

Why?

That's easy...McGwire isn't "hated" at all.

Did u see the espn.com poll after his debacle at the Congressional hearings...only something like 10% believed he didn't take steroids after that incident. And more polls have shown he won't make it to Cooperstown.

He wasn't hated in 1998, but with the stuff surfacing now he is hated.

[gesser]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/sportsbusiness/news/story?id=2056280

[KenA55]

Well I see no reason to hate any of these guys. Nor will I be declaring them possible 'GOAT' players either. I just have my own little asterisk attached to their questionable years, the PE years, for performance enhanced. Whether they choose to do something similar in the record books or not.

Whether guys were womanizers or drunks or drug users, none of those things speaks well towards their character- but their accomplishments on the field stand, none of those things would find their way into any reasonable performance-enhancer list.

[TrackDaddy]

Did u see the espn.com poll after his debacle at the Congressional hearings...only something like 10% believed he didn't take steroids after that incident. And more polls have shown he won't make it to Cooperstown.

He wasn't hated in 1998, but with the stuff surfacing now he is hated.See...I don't think Bonds, McGwire, Sosa or anyone was TRYING TO CHEAT.

They were TRYING TO GET BETTER.

MLB looked the other way, giving the players a sort of pseudo okay, if you will.

I know that steroids are illegal drugs but not like cocaine so that local law enforcement are raiding roid houses.

NO ONE was going to jail for roids. Every gym in America contained them and still do.

A culture developed. The people who didn't take them didn't because of the potential harm to their bodies.

NOT BECAUSE OF A PERCEPTION OF CHEATING.

It was NEVER looked at like that back then. It was a way to improve...that's all.

Canseco talked openly in the lockerroom of using steroids when he played.

Lyle Alzado, Mark Gastinaeu, etc....all used them and people knew it.

Have they ever been called "cheats?"

[running high]

Who's hated more...

Bonds...or McGwire?

Why?

That's easy...McGwire isn't "hated" at all.

You don't read Sports Illustrated do you?

[TrackDaddy]

Well I see no reason to hate any of these guys. Nor will I be declaring them possible 'GOAT' players either. I just have my own little asterisk attached to their questionable years, the PE years, for performance enhanced. Whether they choose to do something similar in the record books or not.

Whether guys were womanizers or drunks or drug users, none of those things speaks well towards their character- but their accomplishments on the field stand, none of those things would find their way into any reasonable performance-enhancer list.There was a thread on the old board titled "I HATE BONDS"

So I started an I LOVE BONDS thread...for kicks.

And the performances of old that you have so much respect for...aren't w/o their own asterik inspiring issues either.

[TrackDaddy]

You don't read Sports Illustrated do you?No.

But I watch ESPN.

[TrackDaddy]

See...I don't think Bonds, McGwire, Sosa or anyone was TRYING TO CHEAT.

They were TRYING TO GET BETTER.

MLB looked the other way, giving the players a sort of pseudo okay, if you will.

I know that steroids are illegal drugs but not like cocaine so that local law enforcement are raiding roid houses.

NO ONE was going to jail for roids. Every gym in America contained them and still do.

A culture developed. The people who didn't take them didn't because of the potential harm to their bodies.

NOT BECAUSE OF A PERCEPTION OF CHEATING.

It was NEVER looked at like that back then. It was a way to improve...that's all.

Canseco talked openly in the lockerroom of using steroids when he played.

Lyle Alzado, Mark Gastinaeu, etc....all used them and people knew it.

Have they ever been called "cheats?"And don't forget...Gastinaeu had the NFL single season sack record at one time.

[running high]

Steroids? Not cheating? Why do all these people think it is cheating though? It's because, we observe the game. If we were playing it we would realize the black wall of money that seperates morals from the decision to take them.

If steroids weren't cheating, why such a big secret? It's because, deep down they know "THE TRUTH!" that steroids are cheating.

[TrackDaddy]

Steroids? Not cheating? Why do all these people think it is cheating though? It's because, we observe the game. If we were playing it we would realize the black wall of money that seperates morals from the decision to take them.

If steroids weren't cheating, why such a big secret? It's because, deep down they know "THE TRUTH!" that steroids are cheating.I'm just saying it wasn't viewed that way except for in track and field.

It was a way to get better in baseball, until recently.

"Cheating" came up as Bonds' numbers started to climb.

[running high]

No.

But I watch ESPN.

Recently, they've ridiculed McGwire and Sosa extensively. Rick Reilly, who is picked the Best Sportswriter of the Year continuously, started his bashing with Sosa a few years ago. It's not just Bonds! But of course, people do pay crucial attention to his scenario because of what he has done.


By the way, check the Playground, I've posted there.

[KenA55]

I agree that MLB in general is as much or more responsible than the individuals themselves; the management attitudes set the atmosphere. I do believe that if the game had an independent commissioner, as it used to have, then something might possibly have been done about the whole problem, a whole lot sooner. Owners love superstars that produce huge numbers, they draw whether the team is successful or not. They basically became as dependant on performance enhancers as the athletes using them.

[gesser]

See...I don't think Bonds, McGwire, Sosa or anyone was TRYING TO CHEAT.

They were TRYING TO GET BETTER.

MLB looked the other way, giving the players a sort of pseudo okay, if you will.

I know that steroids are illegal drugs but not like cocaine so that local law enforcement are raiding roid houses.

NO ONE was going to jail for roids. Every gym in America contained them and still do.

A culture developed. The people who didn't take them didn't because of the potential harm to their bodies.

NOT BECAUSE OF A PERCEPTION OF CHEATING.

It was NEVER looked at like that back then. It was a way to improve...that's all.

Canseco talked openly in the lockerroom of using steroids when he played.

Lyle Alzado, Mark Gastinaeu, etc....all used them and people knew it.

Have they ever been called "cheats?"


What's this got to do with the quote of me you used? All I know is Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa are all hated now according to these polls. McGwire is hated because he was a little girl and refused to answer questions saying, "I'm not here to talk about the past". Bonds is hated because he's crass, obnoxious, racist, and exploitatory. And finally Sosa is hated because common sense would tell you he cheated. And it's funny, he has an "American" wife, yet he supposedly couldn't understand some of the English questions directed toward him at those hearings. Which is even more moronic because he had a "translator" with him.

So while there are varying degrees of hate for each, you can't say everyone still parades McGwire around as a Golden Boy or something.

[BudE 84]

I don't hate any of them (Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc.), but I can say I have no respect for any of them as a baseball player. And that does not go anymore for Bonds than any of the others, and pretty much all the baseball fans I know feel the same way. Why do you feel like everyone is out to get Bonds but loves guys like McGwire and Sosa and anyone else who used steroids, I'm sorry but that is simply not the case.

[TrackDaddy]

What's this got to do with the quote of me you used? All I know is Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa are all hated now according to these polls. McGwire is hated because he was a little girl and refused to answer questions saying, "I'm not here to talk about the past". Bonds is hated because he's crass, obnoxious, racist, and exploitatory. And finally Sosa is hated because common sense would tell you he cheated. And it's funny, he has an "American" wife, yet he supposedly couldn't understand some of the English questions directed toward him at those hearings. Which is even more moronic because he had a "translator" with him.

So while there are varying degrees of hate for each, you can't say everyone still parades McGwire around as a Golden Boy or something.According to your polls...which of the three is hated the most?

Why?

Why is Bonds racist?

Because he said that white people don't want him to pass the Babe?

Don't you think he's right?

If Bonds were white don't you think he would be an American hero, like Lance Armstrong?

Do you think Lance is dirty based on all the allegations against him?

What would you think if he were black?

Why do you think white people have the "power of objectivity" but black people don't?

Why do white people (especially men) always dismiss any allegations of racism as though they are all absurd when we all know otherwise?

Why didn't you say that McGwire is a liar, who's surly, rude and temperamental?

Sosa never said he couldn't understand the questions. The interpreter was there mostly so that the congressman could understand him.

[TrackDaddy]

I don't hate any of them (Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc.), but I can say I have no respect for any of them as a baseball player. And that does not go anymore for Bonds than any of the others, and pretty much all the baseball fans I know feel the same way. Why do you feel like everyone is out to get Bonds but loves guys like McGwire and Sosa and anyone else who used steroids, I'm sorry but that is simply not the case.People hate Bonds more because he's a bigger threat to their idealistic views.

He's closing in on Babe Ruth. The American ideal of baseball prowess.

So in order to completely discredit everything he's ever done they found the words..."cheat and asterick" in preparation for the day the Babe goes down.

It's makes them feel better.

But the Babe has astericks too.

Of course, those don't count. :rolleyes:

[fentonfreshman]

People exaggerate the roid thing when it comes to Bonds because Babe Ruth is going down.

Ummmmm.....Hank Aaron is going down....Nobody cares if second place changes hands.

[100% Ozone Safe]

You guys are way to into this. :rolleyes:

[Dyenimator]

Why am I bringing up race? Because I've never seen you stick up for a white guy.

[Dyenimator]

Dye CONTINUED to accuse me of being racist because I support Bonds.

So...I turned it around to make him think.

He wouldn't know racism if it slapped him in the face.

But I do.


I see racism all the time.

[Biscuit_AQ]

you're trying to defend a despicable specimen TD.

[Dyenimator]

:rolleyes:

So now America cares?

Barry is a ROLE MODEL compared to other legendary baseball players.

Micky Mantle was a wild partying, womanizing lush who on his best days was drunk out of his mind.

He LITERALLY drank himself to death.

Babe Ruth was a gluttonous, womanizing drunk who was infected with chronic venereal disease that he contracted from his deplorable, despicable lifestyle.

Of course he's universally loved and known affectionately as..."The Babe."

LOL

Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, Ty Cobb, Darryl Strawberry, Steve Howe, etc...?

Of course I knew you you hypocrites would run from the TRUTH that I posted in the other thread so...I decided to bring it over here for your convenience.

LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackDaddy
You think I love Bonds Because he's black?

LOL...naw, dog.

Jesse Jackson is black too, but I have no use for him.

Why do you always bring up race, Dye?

Can't you get past the fact that Bonds is black?

But...since you seem to want to HEAR the TRUTH and you did bring it up...let me ask...

Would Bonds be hated this much if he were white setting these records?

THERE WERE OVERWHELMING signs of steroid use pointed TOWARDS McGwire (including a strategically planted bottle of Andro in his locker that he INTENDED for the media to see so he could claim a "legal" excuse) for practically his entire career... and he STILL OWNED America while he played.

Big Mac= Former Owner of the USA.

Everybody screaming..."Big Mac this, and Big Mac that." Blah, blah, blah....while Sosa rode shotgun.

Nevermind that McGwire was surly, temperamental and rude.

Nevermind that he couldn't field, throw, steal bases, hit for average, or do anything associated with baseball but stand on first base, catch the ball and hit the occasional hr.

He was Our Beloved Big Mac. What a guy. I can still see him holding his kid, while waving his lying hand to the fans.

He was a stiff who hit homers with a 'roided up body while everyone made excuses for him.

Even the media. They tell us who to like, you know.

But do you know who the media hated the most besides Bonds....all those years? Canseco.

While Big Mac, his limited skills, all the signs and whispers about his drug use, and his undesireable attitude....got a free pass.

Of course, if he hadn't been able to hit homers, he'd have been paid a whole lot less money, if not put out of the majors all together.

See...he couldn't manufacture runs any other way.

How do you think Big Mac would have been received had he been black?

What about now that he has gone before Congress in one of the most disgraceful displays of evasive testimony in Congressional testimony history and ultimately KICKED everyone IN THE GROIN who ever yelled in adoration...."Big Mac!"

EVEN BEFORE that hearing, with Canseco's book already out, all the hot rumors surrounding baseball, the andro thing, his refusal to comment on Canseco's book except a deceptive insinuation, AND ALL THE OTHER SIGNS that he was doper....

Big Mac still had a free pass in his pocket courtesy of good 'ol Uncle Sam and all his nieces and nephews.

See...the media spun it so that Canseco would STILL be the bad guy. This time for exposing the dopers. Namely Big Mac.

How do you think the media would've responded to Canseco's book had Bonds been the focus of it?

That's right, Mabel. Canseco would've been a hero for exposing a cheat. Canseco said from the very beginning that Mac was lying and that the truth would come out about him. And now that it has...where's the vindication for Canseco?

I guarantee you that whenever he comes out of his rat hole from hiding he he'll be forgiven and voted to the HOF.

And he couldn't even play the game. Not...The whole game...like Bonds.

700/500....the GOAT.

WHACK!

Bonds is closing in on Babe "Overrated" Ruth (not the candy...it's great).

Here we have this GREAT COMPLETE PLAYER. Certainly better than Big Mac in EVERY WAY.

And besides the fact that he doesn't get free passes....His Uncle hates him and his cousins do too.

Why, pray tell, do you suppose that he's so hated by so many.... but McGwire EVEN NOW...still isn't?

DOUBLE WHACK!! :D

Well I do know that I wasn't exactly smiling at the brim when McGwire hit number 62. I don't like players who can't field or run the bases, solely because they need to bulk up and swing for the fences every AB.

I rooted for Sosa that year (that was before he turned to a roid freak also, a strikeout machine if you will). I can clearly remember the day he hit 65 & 66 at Milwaukee. I thought he would pass McGwire.

Of course, you don't have to believe in anything that I write.

Speaking of Sosa, I've been waiting to ask this trivia question for awhile. Before Sammy did it in '98, who held the record for most HR's in a month?

[luv2run]

If Bonds were white don't you think he would be an American hero, like Lance Armstrong?

Do you think Lance is dirty based on all the allegations against him?

What would you think if he were black?I am not a baseball fan. (Actually, I think they should get rid of the game altogether, or at least send it to another country. Maybe Brazil or something. Then we could get their soccer players.)

But I do happen to know severaly things about Lance Armstrong that you seem to be unaware of, as you have used him twice as an example.

LA is quite possibly the most tested person IN THE WORLD. He undergoes daily drug tests during the Tour de France, and tests often during the offseason.

He has tested positive once ... for a non-performance-enhancing cream he was taking that he had cleared with race officials long before the drug test. Lance has proven that he is not on drugs, steroids, EPO, or anything else.

Armstrong is a an American hero because he has a) done amazing things and b) proven himself clean while doing it. Not because he is white.

The public percieves him as a hero because of this proof.

Clearly, the public has not been convinced that Bonds is clean.

You yourself have basically admitted that he was doing drugs, and you've justified it by saying "everybody else does drugs too." That may be moral (or it may not, I don't know) since it's probably true, but that will still cause the American public to look upon Bonds as a cheater. (If it is proven.)

[running high]

This is from the 'I Love Bonds' thread on the Playground

So you think that all of baseball is under scrutiny?

Not even close.

It's just Bonds they hate.

What? Far be it from me to say this is a non-disputable issue.

A Congressional hearing? It's in the news everywhere! Sports Illustrated, ESPN, all over my local news contstantly. A proposed policy of a systematic removal of abusers through 50-day,100-day, and conclusively a lifetime ban? Aware of any of this?

And you claim that all of this is because of the apparently prevalent dislike of ONE man.

[gesser]

Well I do know that I wasn't exactly smiling at the brim when McGwire hit number 62. I don't like players who can't field or run the bases, solely because they need to bulk up and swing for the fences every AB.

I rooted for Sosa that year (that was before he turned to a roid freak also, a strikeout machine if you will). I can clearly remember the day he hit 65 & 66 at Milwaukee. I thought he would pass McGwire.

Of course, you don't have to believe in anything that I write.

Speaking of Sosa, I've been waiting to ask this trivia question for awhile. Before Sammy did it in '98, who held the record for most HR's in a month?

Didn't he hit like 20 in one month...I want to say August?

As for who's record he broke, I have no idea. That's a good question. I'll guess...Eddie Matthews. Harmon Killebrew is my second choice.

[Jwaksman]

Okay, I'm putting my $0.02 in here. This is absolutely retarded to suggest that it's racist to attack the all-time single-season homerun leader and the guy poised to take the all-time career record and who has taken steroids. He is the most visible player in the game. ALSO, he has lied under oath to a grand jury, and has cheated on his taxes.


Remember at the Congressional Testimony. McGwire got completely panned by the media and Rafael Palmeiro got off scot-free. Why is that? Palmeiro is Hispanic - maybe there's a pro-hispanic bias??? Or... maybe it's because Palmeiro gave a very convincing defense of himself and McGwire basic admitted that he took steroids but refused to apologize.


Also, Bonds has always been hated. He was the most self-centered, hated athlete long before the steroids thing. His locker in Pac-Bell Park is in the corner, with his own huge tv, and a huge comfy chair with it's back to everyone else - so he can be all by himself, away from all of the "common" baseball players. He gets in fights with his "teamates" (anyone remember Jeff Kent?), and only cares about his own stats. Here is a guy who used to be a gold glover and a tough guy on the basepaths. But now he's sacrificed all of that to hit his home runs. Have you even seem him jog for a fly ball in the past 3 years? Heaven forbid he take a chance at pulling a muscle - it's not like he was in an NLCS or anything :rolleyes: ...


To defend him at this point is just to defend a black person, for the sake of sticking it to white people. Which seems to be a common theme from TD...

[TrackDaddy]

I see you're still about the business of embarrassing yourself, Jwacky.

Bonds didn't lie to a grand jury. He admitted using steroids albeit initially unknowingly.

Palmiero and Sosa answered the questions they were asked before Congress regarding any use of steroids. McGwire chose not to in embarrassing fashion.

Jeff Kent is almost as hated as Bonds.

Bonds, whether blue, black, green, white or cinnamon... statistically is the greatest all around player...ever.

Ever.

The $0.02 you offered, was worth even less.

[Jwaksman]

Bonds, whether blue, black, green, white or cinnamon... statistically is the greatest all around player...ever.




So, if we take this argument from you, then wouldn't you expect it to be a big deal if the "greatest all around player...ever" was found guilty of using steroids, lying on his taxes, and lying under oath???


The "I didn't know it was a steroid" argument was unbelievably laughable. That guy spends his entire day worrying about every little thing he does to his body. You think he'd put anything in his body without knowing what it was??? Come on.... if you think that he didn't know what it was then I have a bridge to sell you...

[Biscuit_AQ]

He lied to a grand jury about not knowing he was taking steroids.

[Jwaksman]

Well, in fact, it's really disproportionate that 67% of the players under fire here (McGwire, Sosa & Bonds) are minority... It's necessary in a leftist society for everything to be proportionate - to have as diverse of a prison population as we can. Therefore, 65% of the guilty baseball players need to be white, 12% black, 12% hispanic, and 11% other.


Therefore, we already have our black & hispanic. We need 5 more white guys. Anyone want to line up? Giambi? Boone? Also, we need an asian, to keep the balance going. How about Hideki Matsui? And what would an Affirmative Action program be without disadvantaging Jews... so how about we throw Mike Lieberthal or Shawn Green under the bus?

[Dyenimator]

Bonds can have all these stats he wants. Thanks to him being the most selfish player of all time (and part to Dusty Baker for being incompetent), Bonds hasn't and will never win a World Series. That's what matters most. The best have done that, they have taken their teams to the top. The others, well I'm sure it's killing them that they never got the chance to raise that hallowed trophy.

[TrackDaddy]

So, if we take this argument from you, then wouldn't you expect it to be a big deal if the "greatest all around player...ever" was found guilty of using steroids, lying on his taxes, and lying under oath???


The "I didn't know it was a steroid" argument was unbelievably laughable. That guy spends his entire day worrying about every little thing he does to his body. You think he'd put anything in his body without knowing what it was??? Come on.... if you think that he didn't know what it was then I have a bridge to sell you...He didn't put anything "into" his body.

It's been well documented that what he (and Gary Sheffield) used was a cream.

Who would've thought that a steroid would be in cream form (and not a needle or pill)?

He said his trainer one day told him to use it on his sore muscles.

I believe him, although at some point I think he knew and maybe kept using it.

Experts say that a lot would be lost trying to absorb a cream into the body as opposed using a needle and going right in.

[TrackDaddy]

He lied to a grand jury about not knowing he was taking steroids.LOL

You can only allege at this point that that was a lie.

[TrackDaddy]

But Biscuit...(and Jwaks)...Barry Bonds is black and has had a legacy...we all have legacies...therefore we should apply Affirmitive Action policies to his lying and just let him off the hook for once...I'm sure YOU can relate.

Sort of like overlooking criminal profiles and allowing Middle Easterners to have free reign in airports. ;)

[Biscuit_AQ]

you honestly believe that Bonds unknowingly took steroids? An athlete at that level?

[TrackDaddy]

Just about anything can be absorbed into the skin.

There is a hair growth pill for men that women are not even supposed to TOUCH because for women, it is that toxic.Intraveneous injection is a far more effective means.

[Jwaksman]

Intraveneous injection is a far more effective means.



But needles leave marks. If you use a cream then you can play dumb so that people who reflexively defend black people will support you...

[TrackDaddy]

But needles leave marks. If you use a cream then you can play dumb so that people who reflexively defend black people will support you...Or...maybe he didn't lie to a grand jury and what he said was the truth.

Contrary to what you often seem to believe...black doesn't mean guilty.

It's a color.

[TrackDaddy]

Doesn't mean that topical ointments aren't effective. Injections are just more effective.The use of topical drugs, I would think, indicates near dermic or epidermic ailment although there are muscle applications.

Originally I should have said intramuscular injection which is the way steroids are applied I believe.

Still much more effective than a topical ointment.

[CTsnapple]

See...I don't think Bonds, McGwire, Sosa or anyone was TRYING TO CHEAT.

They were TRYING TO GET BETTER.

MLB looked the other way, giving the players a sort of pseudo okay, if you will.

I know that steroids are illegal drugs but not like cocaine so that local law enforcement are raiding roid houses.

NO ONE was going to jail for roids. Every gym in America contained them and still do.

A culture developed. The people who didn't take them didn't because of the potential harm to their bodies.

NOT BECAUSE OF A PERCEPTION OF CHEATING.

It was NEVER looked at like that back then. It was a way to improve...that's all.

Canseco talked openly in the lockerroom of using steroids when he played.

Lyle Alzado, Mark Gastinaeu, etc....all used them and people knew it.

Have they ever been called "cheats?"


"Mm, hmm. If you can take advantage of a situation in some way, it's your duty as an American to do it. Why should the race always be to the swift or the jumble to the quick-witted? Should they be allowed to win merely because of the gifts God gave them? Well, I say, cheating is the gift Man gives himself."


- C. Montgomery Burns

[TrackDaddy]

you honestly believe that Bonds unknowingly took steroids? An athlete at that level?Initially...yes.

[running high]

Man, that's a lot of cream...

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/12-04/1203bondsbulk.jpg

[Jwaksman]

Or...maybe he didn't lie to a grand jury and what he said was the truth.

Contrary to what you often seem to believe...black doesn't mean guilty.

It's a color.



Okay, I'm tired of fooling around. I'm just going to say what everyone here knows:


If Barry Bonds was white there is absolutely NO way you would be defending him. You just think that anytime a black person is arrested that it has to be because of racism, because all whites just want to put blacks back on the plantation.


It's your ridiculous "assume that every white is racist and every black is a saint" attitude that causes all of our racial problems in this country. See, no one listens to white supremacists or the KKK. Everyone knows that they're a joke. But what's scary is that some people actually listen to people like you.


I have an idea: Pretend Barry Bonds is white. The "greatest all-around player ever", who denied using steroids to a grand jury, and who authorities now believe did, in fact, take steroids, cheat on his taxes, & commit perjury. Don't you think this should be a big news item???


Of course you would. And you would realize that he is guilty, just like everyone else does.


Try as hard as you can to forget the skin color of someone. Judge people on their character, and not on their melanoma levels...

[TrackDaddy]

Except it wasn't TRUTH as you like TRUTH to be. The TRUTH is that Barry Bonds used steroids, knowingly or unknowingly--mens rea in this case is irrelevant, as the effects of the drug have already taken place and this is not an issue of culpability, but rather effect. The TRUTH is that steroids are illegal. TRUTH, according to you, is independent of opinion or race.

There's the freakin TRUTH for you.

Contrary to what you always believe...black doesn't mean innocent.Yes, he did use steroids...and has acknowledged as much. As you say...knowingly or not.

The fact that he's not the only one and to what extent they took them will never be known.

He's no more or less guilty than the guy who took them and bareky made the team.

Black is a color used to indicate profit.

[TrackDaddy]

Okay, I'm tired of fooling around. I'm just going to say what everyone here knows:


If Barry Bonds was white there is absolutely NO way you would be defending him. You just think that anytime a black person is arrested that it has to be because of racism, because all whites just want to put blacks back on the plantation.


It's your ridiculous "assume that every white is racist and every black is a saint" attitude that causes all of our racial problems in this country. See, no one listens to white supremacists or the KKK. Everyone knows that they're a joke. But what's scary is that some people actually listen to people like you.


I have an idea: Pretend Barry Bonds is white. The "greatest all-around player ever", who denied using steroids to a grand jury, and who authorities now believe did, in fact, take steroids, cheat on his taxes, & commit perjury. Don't you think this should be a big news item???


Of course you would. And you would realize that he is guilty, just like everyone else does.


Try as hard as you can to forget the skin color of someone. Judge people on their character, and not on their melanoma levels...If Barry Bonds were white...I wouldn't have to defend him.

Y'all would.

[TrackDaddy]

Man, that's a lot of cream...

http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/12-04/1203bondsbulk.jpgIn the SAME twenty year period I have gained about the same amount of weight as Bonds has.

Some of mine is also muscle although I wouldn't know a steroid from an altoid.

That's the silliest of all the arguments against him.

[Jwaksman]

If Barry Bonds were white...I wouldn't have to defend him.

Y'all would.



If Mark McGwire were white... we all would defend him also....



Oh, wait, he is white. And no one's defending him.


Because he's GUILTY, that's the TRUTH. But he's only guilty of taking steroids. Bonds is also guilty of PERJURY AND FRAUD. And, he's a better player.

[TrackDaddy]

So in other words, it's a race issue for you. Period.Actually, what I'm saying is that's what it is for y'all.

Race.

Read my dissertation to Dyenimator regarding MarkMcGwire...after he repeatedly called me racist regarding Bonds...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrackDaddy

You think I love Bonds Because he's black?

LOL...naw, dog.

Jesse Jackson is black too, but I have no use for him.

Why do you always bring up race, Dye?

Can't you get past the fact that Bonds is black?

But...since you seem to want to HEAR the TRUTH and you did bring it up...let me ask...

Would Bonds be hated this much if he were white setting these records?

THERE WERE OVERWHELMING signs of steroid use pointed TOWARDS McGwire (including a strategically planted bottle of Andro in his locker that he INTENDED for the media to see so he could claim a "legal" excuse) for practically his entire career... and he STILL OWNED America while he played.

Big Mac= Former Owner of the USA.

Everybody screaming..."Big Mac this, and Big Mac that." Blah, blah, blah....while Sosa rode shotgun.

Nevermind that McGwire was surly, temperamental and rude.

Nevermind that he couldn't field, throw, steal bases, hit for average, or do anything associated with baseball but stand on first base, catch the ball and hit the occasional hr.

He was Our Beloved Big Mac. What a guy. I can still see him holding his kid, while waving his lying hand to the fans.

He was a stiff who hit homers with a 'roided up body while everyone made excuses for him.

Even the media. They tell us who to like, you know.

But do you know who the media hated the most besides Bonds....all those years? Canseco.

While Big Mac, his limited skills, all the signs and whispers about his drug use, and his undesireable attitude....got a free pass.

Of course, if he hadn't been able to hit homers, he'd have been paid a whole lot less money, if not put out of the majors all together.

See...he couldn't manufacture runs any other way.

How do you think Big Mac would have been received had he been black?

What about now that he has gone before Congress in one of the most disgraceful displays of evasive testimony in Congressional testimony history and ultimately KICKED everyone IN THE GROIN who ever yelled in adoration...."Big Mac!"

EVEN BEFORE that hearing, with Canseco's book already out, all the hot rumors surrounding baseball, the andro thing, his refusal to comment on Canseco's book except a deceptive insinuation, AND ALL THE OTHER SIGNS that he was doper....

Big Mac still had a free pass in his pocket courtesy of good 'ol Uncle Sam and all his nieces and nephews.

See...the media spun it so that Canseco would STILL be the bad guy. This time for exposing the dopers. Namely Big Mac.

How do you think the media would've responded to Canseco's book had Bonds been the focus of it?

That's right, Mabel. Canseco would've been a hero for exposing a cheat. Canseco said from the very beginning that Mac was lying and that the truth would come out about him. And now that it has...where's the vindication for Canseco?

I guarantee you that whenever he comes out of his rat hole from hiding he he'll be forgiven and voted to the HOF.

And he couldn't even play the game. Not...The whole game...like Bonds.

700/500....the GOAT.

WHACK!

Bonds is closing in on Babe "Overrated" Ruth (not the candy...it's great).

Here we have this GREAT COMPLETE PLAYER. Certainly better than Big Mac in EVERY WAY.

And besides the fact that he doesn't get free passes....His Uncle hates him and his cousins do too.

Why, pray tell, do you suppose that he's so hated by so many.... but McGwire EVEN NOW...still isn't?

DOUBLE WHACK!!

[TrackDaddy]

If Mark McGwire were white... we all would defend him also....



Oh, wait, he is white. And no one's defending him.


Because he's GUILTY, that's the TRUTH. But he's only guilty of taking steroids. Bonds is also guilty of PERJURY AND FRAUD. And, he's a better player.McGwire was DEFENDED for YEARS.

Read my last post, homie.

Hear the TRUTH! :D

[TrackDaddy]

Wait a minute.

Steroids are used specifically for muscle mass increase. Over some period of time, a person using steroids will increase in size and visibly become more muscular.

Barry Bonds used steroids and over a period of time got much larger.

THIS IS A SILLY ARGUMENT TO YOU?

You said it yourself-SOME of your weight is muscle. ALL of his is muscle.All of mine COULD be muscle too.

But I don't get paid to work out like he does.

I think Bonds began to dedicate himself to the game as he got older. When he was younger, he took it for granted.

If you look at ANY picture of an athlete from when he was younger....you'll see that over the years he's usually grown larger with MORE muscle.

[TrackDaddy]

No. I don't care if he's green. He's the best in his game and yet he's a cheater. And a liar. He's a criminal, period.

It's a race issue for you. I would expect a person like you to defend OJ. :rolleyes:

But then again, even OJ would probably just plead guilty if you were his lawyer.OJ was found not guilty by a jury of his peers.

Just like the cops who beat Rodney King.

[Jwaksman]

McGwire was DEFENDED for YEARS.

Read my last post, homie.

Hear the TRUTH! :D



So was Bonds. The whole league was insulated for years from the steroids debate until the BALCO case exploded. Now McGwire is getting it worse than anyone except maybe Bonds.


And he didn't lie to a grand jury or cheat on his taxes! And McGwire is known as a family man and the epitome of a great teammate and friend. Bonds has always been known as the epitome of a self-centered, hated jerk.


And be honest, TD, would you be defending Bonds if he were white? Don't make a smart-aleck response, just answer the question.

[Jwaksman]

OJ was found not guilty by a jury of his peers.

Just like the cops who beat Rodney King.



In sociology classes and books, the OJ case is the textbook example of the "us blacks vs. the whites" mentality. There is no question that OJ was guilty, people have been sent to jail for murder with 1/10th that mountain of evidence. Just about every non-black person (be they asian, Jewish, whatever) acknowledged that he was guilty. But actually about 2/3 of American minorities thought that he was innocent. It wasn't about the actual evidence, because no amount of evidence in the world would have convinced a lot of those people. It was just about sticking it to white people, who they view as "the man", or whatever.


Unfortunately, some people are like you, and judge others solely on their skin color.

Martin Luther King, Jr. would be ashamed of you.

[TrackDaddy]

He is probably the best player out there. I don't care if others aren't caught and aren't being made an example of--HE is the best and OF COURSE they'll use him as an example. Why is this difficult for you? I don't care if he's green, the point is this guy is arguably the best baseball player out there, and if he's going to cheat, he's going to be punished and made an example of.
He IS more guilty than the guy who took them and barely made the team. Bonds is making more money than that guy, and perhaps because of those steroids.Bonds is the best AND he's black.

Lance Armstrong has been accused of using steroids MULTIPLE times by people close to him. A european doctor that he used has long been associated with illegal drugs. And Lance even failed a drug test before although I think it was dismissed. He's overcome cancer and done AMAZING things in his sport never done before just like Bonds.

If he were black...do you think he'd be an American Hero or an accused druggie?

Wake up, cuz. :cool:

[TrackDaddy]

So was Bonds. The whole league was insulated for years from the steroids debate until the BALCO case exploded. Now McGwire is getting it worse than anyone except maybe Bonds.


And he didn't lie to a grand jury or cheat on his taxes! And McGwire is known as a family man and the epitome of a great teammate and friend. Bonds has always been known as the epitome of a self-centered, hated jerk.


And be honest, TD, would you be defending Bonds if he were white? Don't make a smart-aleck response, just answer the question.McGwire is known as surly, temperamental and rude. You'd know that if he weren't white.

He lied to the american public REPEATEDLY before completely embarrasinng himself before congress.

And you call him a great family man, great team mate and friend.

I don't need your help proving my point, but what you've contributed to this point is much appreciated.

[Jwaksman]

Because there has never been any evidence that Lance is on drugs. Only people who have shouted allegations from a distance. He goes through difficult drug tests. Now that they suddenly have decent drug tests in baseball Bonds is having a tough time coming back from injury (cough, cough)...


If there was any real evidence that Armstrong used steroids, committed perjury, and cheated on his taxes, then I ASSURE you that he'll be roasted on a spit.


Also, again, Armstrong is the epitome of a heroic person. Bonds is the epitome of the opposite.



Here's a good piece I read recently on people like TD:

Ever since the Watts riots of 1964, the media have pandered to the presumption of prejudice in the LAPD. Black Los Angeleno Eulia Love was shot and killed in 1979 by two cops. One of the officers was black, one Hispanic-Native American, yet they were both vilified as racists. Today, whenever the L.A. media refer to this incident they invariably report that Ms. Love was killed over a $20 gas bill. They always fail to mention that she attacked the gasman with a shovel, or that the hysterical, mentally deranged, foaming at the mouth Ms. Love threw a knife at the officers who responded to his complaint. Race had nothing to do with the tragic demise of Eulia Love, yet thanks to years of politically correct commentary, most Los Angelenos now believe it to be an historic fact that she was a victim of a "racist shooting."



Another notorious case involved Clarence Chance and Benny Powell, two black men who spent 17 years in prison for killing a black L.A. County sheriff. They were freed in 1992--shortly after a spasm of post-Rodney King guilt swept liberal Los Angeles--because it was alleged they had been "framed by the LAPD." The L.A. City Council awarded them $7 million, and the media turned them into international folk heroes, second only to Rodney King himself as symbols of racial injustice in America.



The truth is that Chance and Powell were released due to an expedient and highly symbolic decision by L.A. officials. With Daryl Gates, Mark Fuhrman, and the rest of the LAPD on the roasting spit, nobody dared question claims of an LAPD racist frame-up. It didn't seem to matter that the murder victim was black, or that the eyewitness who identified Chance and Powell was black, or that 17 years later she stuck to her ID.



Upon his release, Benny Powell, now a millionaire, was feted on TV talk shows. He also embarked on a rampage of drugs, rape, beatings, car chases, and shootings. One shootout landed him in the hospital--between two paid speaking engagements. After a brutal day-long cocaine-fueled motel rape of a UCLA student (in which he employed an ax handle as his raping tool), he was finally arrested for good when a witness saw Powell in a field chasing a nude woman with her hands tied behind her as Powell beat her with a stick.



Nobody in the media ever interviewed the UCLA coed except me. I remember her thousand-mile stare, a life ruined, as she explained why she had agreed to go on a road trip with Benny Powell. "I thought he was found innocent," she stated, having read all about Benny Powell in the Los Angeles Times, including what a sad victim and genuine hero he was. Her innocence combined with politically correct lies nearly cost her her life.

[Jwaksman]

Bonds is known as surly, temperamental and rude. You'd know that if he weren't black.

He lied to the american public REPEATEDLY before completely embarrasinng himself during the BALCO trial.

And you call him a great family man, great team mate and friend.

I don't need your help proving my point, but what you've contributed to this point is much appreciated.



Wow, you're right!

[TrackDaddy]

Rodney King was a different situation. Cochran was just a brilliant lawyer who wanted a lot of minorities on the jury. The evidence against OJ was so overwhelming it's ridiculous. Absolute open and shut case.
There were a lot of white people on the jury for the cops who beat King. And their trial was moved to whiter than white... Simi Valley.

And evidence?



The King beating was on film, for goodness sake.

I fail to see a difference.

[TrackDaddy]

Wow, you're right!It's unethical to change my words or anyone else's to make a point.

I'd think yo'd know that.

[Jwaksman]

TD, I think I've broken your argument down. Tell me if this is wrong:



Statement 1: White people have been racist before. Therefore all whites are racist.


Statement 2: Blacks have gone to jail because of racist white people before. Therefore all blacks only go to jail because of racist white people.


Statement 3: Barry Bonds is black and has a mountain of evidence against him.

Conclusion: Bonds must be innocent.

[Jwaksman]

It's unethical to change my words or anyone else's to make a point.

I'd think yo'd know that.


I was hoping to turn the mirror on you. To make you realize that I have no problem bashing people regardless of their skin color. In case you noticed, I started a whole THREAD tonight on how I thought that a white player won the NBA MVP award because of racism.


But I also know when there isn't racism. I judge each situation on its merits, and the characters involved. You only judge people by their skin color. It's sad that racist people like you still exist, I would have thought that ideas like this would have become obsolete by the 21st century...

[TrackDaddy]

Here's the drug test in question:
http://www.lancearmstrong.com/99tdfap.html

Interesting, creams can make you test positive.

The guy is a hero because he overcame Cancer. On top of that, steroids wouldn't help him in an ENDURANCE sport. And besides, if he were to be a druggie and be found guilty, I wouldn't respect him, either. He can be as yellow as his wristbands as he likes, or as black as Bonds. Doesn't matter to me.

And has Lance been accused of cheating on his taxes and committing perjury? I think not.Wrong.

Another american cyclist was recently suspended for steroid use.

If Lance was black...y'all would be screaming for his head just like Bonds.

But he's an acceptable color.

[TrackDaddy]

TD, I think I've broken your argument down. Tell me if this is wrong:



Statement 1: White people have been racist before. Therefore all whites are racist.


Statement 2: Blacks have gone to jail because of racist white people before. Therefore all blacks only go to jail because of racist white people.


Statement 3: Barry Bonds is black and has a mountain of evidence against him.

Conclusion: Bonds must be innocent.No. I don't feel that way.

I'm not saying Bonds didn't use steroids.

I'm saying white people care more because he's black.

Lance and McGwire are PERFECT examples.

They're our heroes. :rolleyes:

[Jwaksman]

I'm sure you were defending Regina Jacobs also. Just like Bonds she hit her peak when she was 38, which is inexplicable. Of course, people only criticized Jacobs because she was black.


Oh, wait, she was using steroids. Just like Bonds. Just like McGwire.


The fact that you can compare a hero like Armstrong to the horrible human that is Bonds is just absurd. I don't think there's any more blatant way to prove your pure racist hatred towards whites.

[Jwaksman]

Hey, TD, how come you're not defending Mark McGwire? He got fried in the media also. So why aren't you defending him?


Oh, wait, he's white. And you don't like white people...

[TrackDaddy]

You actually just proved my point!

These cops were obviously guilty. No question. And because of jury selection, they were found innocent.

OJ was obviously guilty. No question. And because of jury selection, they were found innocent.I stood by both verdicts.

That use to be the american way.

Remember, after 100 years of lynchings and murders it wasn't until the 1990's before the FIRST Klansman was ever convicted of killing black person.

100 years of murder.

Thousands had been murdered devoid of justice. Killer after killer acquitted EVEN IN THE '90's.

But when OJ was freed also in the '90's...the country had a fit. :rolleyes:

[running high]

I would just like to point something out...

In the mock trial aired on ESPN on whether Pete Rose should be allowed into the Hall of Fame he was defended by a black man and prosecuted by a white man....race matters not.

[TrackDaddy]

Hey, TD, how come you're not defending Mark McGwire? He got fried in the media also. So why aren't you defending him?.He doesn't need me.

He's got you.

People knew for years he was dirty but he was "Big Mac" anyway.

[Jwaksman]

No, Layla, that's not how it works. In a truly just, Affirmative Action-controlled society, we have to make up for all injustices of the past.


Therefore, since thousands of blacks were murdered by racist whites before we were all born, it's only fair that thousands of whites get murdered by blacks. And we couldn't ever prosecute those people. Oh, no. Then we'd just be furthering the slavery of the past. We have to correct the wrongs of the past!

[TrackDaddy]

The fact that you can compare a hero like Armstrong to the horrible human that is Bonds is just absurd. I don't think there's any more blatant way to prove your pure racist hatred towards whites.EVERYTHING I said about Lance was true.

And I noticed that y'all didn't answer my question.

If he were black...with ALL THOSE ALLEGATIONS against him including a suspect relationship with a DOPE DOCTOR....

Would he still be a hero?

He'd be called a cheat by whites...just like Bonds.

How does it feel to be such a blatant hypocrite?

[Jwaksman]

Would Arthur Ashe be a hero if he were black? Would Jackie Robinson? Would Tiger Woods??? Oh, wait....




There is no evidence against Armstrong.


There is MOUNTAINS of evidence against Bonds & McGwire. They're both guilty. See, I can actually criticize people of my own race. Isn't that remarkable??

[TrackDaddy]

Holy **** TrackDaddy, how dare you call Jwaksman racist? He opened an entire thread about how Nash won MVP because he's white, when he's definitely not deserving! Are you so blind?PLEASE....

Jwaks is a bigot's bigot.

[Jwaksman]

PLEASE....

Jwaks is a bigot's bigot.



This is like being called anti-semitic by Goebbels... Go on, please explain how I'm racist. This will be fun :p

[TrackDaddy]

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ALLOW THIS FECAL MATTER TO BE POSTED UNDER YOUR NAME. The Judicial System is NOT about reparations. Affirmitive Action cannot be applied to all things in life! HELL, the Supreme Court ruled that AA can't be a means of Reparations, anyway! All Klansmen should be hung by their scrotums. Period. But that does NOT mean that a Black Murderer in the 1990's should be let off the hook!When did I ask for reparations or for OJ to be found not guilty?

I posted HISTORICAL FACT.

It's just amusing how white people were suddenly concerned about judicial integrity when OJ was acquitted.

[TrackDaddy]

Oh, okay. So it was all for show? He's no bigot. And you can get banned for saying things like that now. Watch your...fingers.Have you not noticed how many times YOU and Jwaks have called me racist in this thread?

Does the word "bigot" mean something different, or is it just me who's not allowed to call someone racist?

[Jwaksman]

Layla's not white. Look at her picture.


She's apart of a minority group that has experienced prejudice in this country also. However, unlike you, she doesn't assume that all white people are racist. She judges people on character. Not on skin color.

[TrackDaddy]

I
Am
Not
White.

GOT IT!?

And what the hell are you trying to prove? There's racism in the country? Nobody is denying that! What you are proving but denying at the same time is that you hate white people.I know.

Remember my comment about Middle Easterners in airports?

It was directed at you.

[Jwaksman]

Have you not noticed how many times YOU and Jwaks have called me racist in this thread?

Does the word "bigot" mean something different, or is it just me who's not allowed to call someone racist?



So, this has to be Affirmative Actioned also? You have to be able to do everything that we do?


We don't care about anyone's skin color. I'm judging people based on evidence:


Lance (so far): innocent

Bonds: guilty
McGwire: guilty



I don't care about their skin color. You're the one defending the black person and attacking the white people. And this is typical of you, because you hate white people. That's the definition of a racist.


If you'd like to present some evidence that either of us are racist then I'd love to hear it.

[TrackDaddy]

Have you noticed how many times YOU have accused me of being white and being part of the black-hating-white-people?I NEVER said you were white.

But that doesn't mean you don't hold some of the same prejudices associated with people like Jwaks.

I've known you were of middle eastern descent since the time you posted the school bus incident about your unruly little brother.

My comment on that one got me yelled at too. :D

[TrackDaddy]

Have you noticed how many times YOU have accused me of being white and being part of the black-hating-white-people?

You show a lot of evidence that you don't like whites and are ready and willing to defend a black at any moment. What I have shown is that I want anyone who breaks the law to be prosecuted-white, black, green, or yellow. All you do is make snide comments about "Ohhhh, so the KKK can get away with it but OJ can't!?" That's the exact kind of comment that perpetuates racism towards black people. If people like yourself cared about COMPLETE justice rather than reparations, you'd see a lot more respect coming in your direction.I LOVE WHITE PEOPLE.

But y'all aren't used to hearing THE TRUTH.

In your propagandist little worlds...you're protected from reality.


That's were TrackDaddy comes in... ;)

[TrackDaddy]

Stop saying that EVERYTHING you say is true. IT ISN'T.

If he were black, he'd probably be even more of a hero! "Look, he overcame cancer, he's won the Tour de France multiple times, and my God, he's even BLACK!" He'd be the next MLK Jr! Besides, nothing has been proven about Armstrong, and the failed test was pretty much irrelevant--the same kind of evidence you'd use to try to make Bonds seem innocent.If Lance were black...the allegations would prevail.

Not his performance.

Notice Marion Jones.

[Kalaby]

You aren't used to knowing THE TRUTH. You are completely psychotic. I'm through with you. You're going back on my block list.


May I suggest the Ignore feature. I'm putting it to good use for several posters, including TD.

[TrackDaddy]

You aren't used to knowing THE TRUTH. You are completely psychotic. I'm through with you. You're going back on my block list.Nooooo!!

You're one of my favorite Loungers (if not THE favorite).

Now Jwaks on the other hand.... ;)

[TrackDaddy]

May I suggest the Ignore feature. I'm putting it to good use for several posters, including TD.Kalaby...friend.

Where then will you turn...FOR TRUTH?!?!

LOL... :D

[TrackDaddy]

Done.That's wrong, dog.

Just plain wrong.

[Jwaksman]

You make so many baseless allegations....


If you would like to present a shred of evidence that I or Layla are racist then present them NOW.

Otherwise I suggest a nice apology.

[TrackDaddy]

I have shown absolutely no evidence to you that I have prejudices against blacks. How DARE you even make that presumption when there is no evidence to base it on? I challenge you to show it to me. You, on the other hand, have shown mountains of evidence that you don't like white people. See my above post.The evidence is in this thread.

OJ and the Rodney King cop's trials.

[TrackDaddy]

You make so many baseless allegations....


If you would like to present a shred of evidence that I or Layla are racist then present them NOW.

Otherwise I suggest a nice apology.LOL

Jwaks...your racist propaganda has been well documented in the Lounge. That's how you got the name Jwaksbaugh. Remember? :D

Although you are still my friend. :)

And I will apologize to Layla on one condition.

She takes me off ignore.

Please Layla... :)

[Jwaksman]

You make so many baseless allegations....


If you would like to present a shred of evidence that I or Layla are racist then present them NOW.

Otherwise I suggest a nice apology.



So are you going to present some evidence or are you going to apologize? We're waiting...

[running high]

I'd like to chime in, it seems neither party is successfully making ammends.

TD...they aren't racist. They say Bonds and Mcgwire are both guilty and hated.

Meanwhile, you say Bonds in hated on more because he's black.

Agree to disagree or else there will be grudges and unsettled dispute through the rest of the lounges debates. Debates, I say, if they exist, they wont if we all just ignore each other!

Opinions are what they are, call them so.

[TrackDaddy]

There it is.i misread it. I'm sorry.

I thought you were insinuating that black people couldn't be fair on a jury, but white people could.

That's why I brought up Simi Valley, KKK trials etc.

Maybe it was Jwaks.

[TrackDaddy]

Debates, I say, if they exist, they wont if we all just ignore each other!

Opinions are what they are, call them so.I agree friend.

Would tell my friend Kalaby that I'd like him back even though we may occassionally disagree?

Kalaby?

I know I'm going to anger you again pretty soon :D but I still enjoy your commentary.

[Kalaby]

Done.


Good move. Jwaks, I'd follow suit if I were you.

TD is what's known as a "ballbreaker". His sole reason for posting here is to get under your skin and to get you into these endless threads where you just go on and on and repeat yourself and bang your head against the wall. He feeds off this stuff. In the end all you get is aggrevation, but he's gotten his thrill. It's a one way street, you get no payoff or satisfaction but he gets plenty.

PLACE HIM ON IGNORE SO THAT YOU DON'T FEED HIM!!!

[TrackDaddy]

Jwaksman convinced me to take you off. Here's what he said:

Jwaksman: I don't block anyone
Jwaksman: no reason to ignore someone cause of what they say
Jwaksman: I always listen to people I disagree with, because I disagree with themWhat about my plea?

No effect? :D

[Jwaksman]

I think maybe it's like JerseyGuy from last year.


He was an irrational leftist, driving everyone nuts except for herr, mzungu and momo (who agreed with him, for some reason). It turned out that he was just a consevative trying make leftists look bad.


Maybe TD is just some racist white guy trying to make civil rights people look bad...

[Kalaby]

OK - Layla and Jwaks. Don't say that I didn't try.

Good luck.

[TrackDaddy]

Good move. Jwaks, I'd follow suit if I were you.

TD is what's known as a "ballbreaker". His sole reason for posting here is to get under your skin and to get you into these endless threads where you just go on and on and repeat yourself and bang your head against the wall. He feeds off this stuff. In the end all you get is aggrevation, but he's gotten his thrill. It's a one way street, you get no payoff or satisfaction but he gets plenty.

PLACE HIM ON IGNORE SO THAT YOU DON'T FEED HIM!!!Not true. :(

Y'all are my friends.

My intent is to just to communicate and educate from a different perspective as I myself learn.

I NEVER pretend to disagree. If I have another point of view...it's genuine regardless of how foreign it may seem.

Y'all need to know that people like me exist. :D

[Jwaksman]

OK - Layla and Jwaks. Don't say that I didn't try.

Good luck.



Haha, that's okay. We're just waiting for TD to apologize at this point. He either has to present evidence of racism (which doesn't exist) or apologize.

[TrackDaddy]

I think maybe it's like JerseyGuy from last year.


He was an irrational leftist, driving everyone nuts except for herr, mzungu and momo (who agreed with him, for some reason). It turned out that he was just a consevative trying make leftists look bad.


Maybe TD is just some racist white guy trying to make civil rights people look bad...LOL!!!

Naw...I ain't that clever.

I'm a black guy who grew up in the hood but never used it as an excuse (hear that Jwaks?).

[TrackDaddy]

Haha, that's okay. We're just waiting for TD to apologize at this point. He either has to present evidence of racism (which doesn't exist) or apologize.Would someone PM my comments to Kalaby regarding my motives?

I don't mean to do the things he says.

Although he's not as important to me as Layla...he still matters. LOL...;)

[Dyenimator]

I gotta agree, blocking TD is a travesty. He is right on most topics, he can debate pretty good, and he sticks to his values. Nothing wrong with those, actually they are nice attributes to have. Problem is, most of you live in your little fantasy worlds, so his opinions seem so radical.

[TrackDaddy]

Well said, Dye.

How one manages opposing views can be a measure of sophistication.

Cultural relativism is a schism to acceptance/adaption for sure, but when understood, we should be able to manage it even in this forum's many ad hoc colloquiums.

They are, of course, why we're here. :cool:

Ultimately, we could all end up benefitting in accordance with the effort we give in that regard.

Here's a pseudo INSANITY definition (nevertheless arguable):

Doing what you've always done and expecting a different result.

[Milesofsmiles15]

I NEEDZ MOAR BONDS THREADDS!one!!

[TrackDaddy]

I don't know why you're digging up these old threads...

"We're not here to talk about the past." ;)

You even pulled up the old "I Love Bonds" thread in the playground.

Already have more friends than you need, eh? :D

[Milesofsmiles15]

sorry, i didn't realize this thread was in the legends lounge

i had been bumping all of the barry bonds threads in order to prove a point that people on the playground need to stop making so many bonds threads
sorry again

[YaRight]

I'm not the most moral guy in the world, but you're basically trying to rationalize cheating on taxes. And then you try to rationalize every other transgression.

It's a pretty serious crime, because when you're making a lot of money, like he is, you're cheating your fellow Americans.

And btw, being a womanizer and drinker is no crime. You say it like it's a huge crime.

Cheating on taxes goes both ways Gesser. You know how many times I have had to pay taxes on the same money? I mean my grandparents had paid taxes on their money, then my parents had to pay taxes on that money again, then Ihad to pay it all over again!!!!! NOW THAT"S CHEATING ON TAXES! from Uncle Sam himself. Now if that isn't a crock of .... I don't know what is! The way I see it, is that it all even at the end of the day. Well sorta, since the Government is like the CASINO, they will always win out.:D