javelin potential

[runsteeple14]

i've always been curius as to how far i might be able to throw the jav given the chance. first off, is there any correlation between how hard/far you can throw a baseball and javelin throwing ability? in my baseball prime (3 years ago), i could throw about 80mph on a good day, and can currently throw a baseball about 70-80 yards. anyone have any thoughts?

[gesser]

180 with good form.

I can throw (actually used to) a baseball in the low 70's and threw jav in the high 150's regularly with zero form (I took a crow hop and threw). I think I could've gone low 170's with form so I'll say you can go 180.

Also, leg power and flexibility seem pretty important. I don't know too much about jav though. I'm sure someone else can answer it better.

[ithrowthereforeiam]

Obviously you don't run to pitch a baseball, but I'll assume you get the point I'm trying to make about the importance of your base in throwing the javelin and pitching a baseball.

Are a baseball player that is converting to track and field?

[goingfor60]

their is a school in oregon called newburg that has had a lot of good throwers and they have a baseball player who went out for his frist time this season go around 200 i think it was 198 or better. :eek:

[gesser]

Obviously you don't run to pitch a baseball, but I'll assume you get the point I'm trying to make about the importance of your base in throwing the javelin and pitching a baseball.

Are a baseball player that is converting to track and field?


Base is obviously important. But a strong throwing arm certainly doesn't hurt and is the most important factor in being a javelin thrower.

[ithrowthereforeiam]

Of course a "strong throwing arm" doesn't hurt, but I don't see how it being the most important factor in javelin correlates to his question about the similarities via baseball throwing when the motions are in fact so different?

The way you release a baseball when you are pitching and the way you release a javelin is entirely different. I don't want to get into the physics motions of it, but they are two entirely different motions.

Split screen them on a TV and you'll see what I'm talking about. If seeing it visually doesn't work go out and pitch a baseball, then throw a javelin. What do you feel when you throw in your upper body then make the same comparisons to your lower body.

You'll feel similar feelings in the lower body and the same will not be said for the upper body (if you're throwing in a technically sound fashion).


Base is obviously important. But a strong throwing arm certainly doesn't hurt and is the most important factor in being a javelin thrower.

[runsteeple14]

i've been a track guy for a long while, but used to play baseball 3-4 years ago. now running is my life and baseball is occasional and just for fun. i'm a distance runner, and since i still play catch with my friends a lot, i've always wondered how well i could do in the jav (of course given time/form work/training, etc). i'm distance-runner-sized (6'1, 160 lbs, so not thrower-sized), but still have a good deal of leg strength. as for the different motions, i've been told by a former thrower that if you try to throw it like a baseball, the tail of the javelin will smack you in the back of the head - which is believable and doesn't surprise me. thanks for the help!

[gesser]

Of course a "strong throwing arm" doesn't hurt, but I don't see how it being the most important factor in javelin correlates to his question about the similarities via baseball throwing when the motions are in fact so different?

The way you release a baseball when you are pitching and the way you release a javelin is entirely different. I don't want to get into the physics motions of it, but they are two entirely different motions.

Split screen them on a TV and you'll see what I'm talking about. If seeing it visually doesn't work go out and pitch a baseball, then throw a javelin. What do you feel when you throw in your upper body then make the same comparisons to your lower body.

You'll feel similar feelings in the lower body and the same will not be said for the upper body (if you're throwing in a technically sound fashion).


Huh, it directly answers his question. He was asking how far we think he could throw from his fastball MPH. So I gave my opinion (since I was in a similar scenario as he; played baseball, then did track) and then told him to not forget about base and flexibility. Read my post again. I never said arm strength was the end all reason in how far you can throw the jav.

It's like you're trying to start a flamewar over nothing.

[gesser]

And I stand by my point that arm strength is the most important factor in throwing the jav. It's a pre-req for being a good jav thrower. Obviously all of the parts matter, but to be a good-great jav thrower, you must have some good throwing muscles.

edit: and I never stated throwing a baseball and jav are the same motion. So stop with that split-screen TV weaksauce.

[ithrowthereforeiam]

Your post quoted mine as if to rebut it specifically. Which is why I attempted to explain in another post. There wasn't anything derogatory in my post to suggest you were wrong. Part of what I posted even agreed with yours about (arm strength) but not to his question which dealt with correlation.

I felt the lower body motions in pitching/javelin was more of a correlation to his question because they are the same as opposed to the arm specifically. You can dismiss the theory and that's fine, but my original response was for him anyway.

I posted without getting defensive and hope anyone I respond to does the same.



Huh, it directly answers his question. He was asking how far we think he could throw from his fastball MPH. So I gave my opinion (since I was in a similar scenario as he; played baseball, then did track) and then told him to not forget about base and flexibility. Read my post again. I never said arm strength was the end all reason in how far you can throw the jav.

It's like you're trying to start a flamewar over nothing.

[BlueTeamGo]

No there isn't a correlation between how far you can throw a baseball and how far you can throw a javelin, unless maybe its throwing the javelin the same way you'd throw a baseball. Ideally the javelin throw is completely different. A baseball pitcher will usually use only his arm (there are some great pitchers that use their whole body, they also tend to get injured less, pitch more consistently, and have a longer career). Javelin requires more. The event requires a lot of technique. Some people can throw far just by being strong, so you may be able to do that. You will probably be able to throw far if you a good athlete, which i'm guessing you are. If you try to throw the javelin like a baseball not only could it smack you in the head or shoulder, it will wrap around to the left (if you are right handed) and dig into the ground a few yards away.

[chrismorth]

Regarding the correlation between the ability to throw a baseball and javelin throwing potential...

I threw jav with Paul Pisano for 4 years at Uconn and I've worked with a number of other top level javelin throwers and it's been my experience that the ability to throw a baseball fast or far has little specific correlation to how far one can throw a javelin. The ability to throw a baseball well merely indicates a certain level of athleticism and strength that is a good sign of whether or not an athlete has the necessary skill set to be a good javelin thrower. However, just because one javelin thrower can throw a ball faster/farther than another has almost no effect on javelin throwing. Paul and I were relatively well matched when it came to the ability to throw a baseball or football, but there was no contest when it came to throwing a javelin. The same was true for the rest of the javelin throwers at Uconn. Almost all of us could throw a baseball a country mile or a football 55-65 yards, but the ability to really bomb a javelin comes from the explosive action of the core of the body during the block, something that is not present in the motion of throwing a baseball. I'd say that if you can throw a baseball far, it's probably a good indication that you'll be a halfway decent javelin thrower, but it by no means will determine how far you can throw. As someone who now coaches javelin throwers, I can tell you that trying to convert kids who have been baseball players all their lives to javelin throwers is an excercise in frustration. I'd rather work with ex-quarterbacks than former pitchers.

[runsteeple14]

chrismorth, that was, for the most part, the kind of answer i was looking for. thank you very much

[SoCold]

I'd kinda like to add to this. I've never thrown the javelin, but I can throw the disc 165' and shot 55', so I have learned to use my legs and hips properly in an implement throw. I've also got a pretty good natural arm; I can throw a football about 67 yards on the run, so I've also learned to torque my hips in motion. So what would be a feasible javelin throw for me? I really need to pick up a third throwing event if I have intentions of throwing in college and I think I might be a natural javelin thrower.

[chrismorth]

Tripling in the throwing events is tough, mostly because the javelin is such a different motion from the shot and the disc, but it can be done. Give it a try, but if you can, do it with a coach around who knows what they're talking about. It is incredibly easy to develop bad (and extremely hard to break) habits when you first start throwing if you don't have any supervision.

Chris

[gesser]

No there isn't a correlation between how far you can throw a baseball and how far you can throw a javelin, unless maybe its throwing the javelin the same way you'd throw a baseball. Ideally the javelin throw is completely different. A baseball pitcher will usually use only his arm (there are some great pitchers that use their whole body, they also tend to get injured less, pitch more consistently, and have a longer career). Javelin requires more. The event requires a lot of technique. Some people can throw far just by being strong, so you may be able to do that. You will probably be able to throw far if you a good athlete, which i'm guessing you are. If you try to throw the javelin like a baseball not only could it smack you in the head or shoulder, it will wrap around to the left (if you are right handed) and dig into the ground a few yards away.

The other guy and I settled our differences. I think why you feel that way is b/c you're misunderstanding what I said. I'm talking about kids who throw it only 130-160. And from what I've seen (albeit limited), there is a correlation. At this stage of jav throwing, form and a person's run up are inefficient. So arm strength does matter.

I actually think football throwing strength has more of a correlation than baseball pitching speed.

I certainly agree that a strong run up and great motion with great mechanics is more important when you start getting into the high 100's. Sub 150, you can get by with a strong throwing arm.

That's all. I agree with you, I was just trying to make another point.

[BlueTeamGo]

The other guy and I settled our differences. I think why you feel that way is b/c you're misunderstanding what I said. I'm talking about kids who throw it only 130-160. And from what I've seen (albeit limited), there is a correlation. At this stage of jav throwing, form and a person's run up are inefficient. So arm strength does matter.

I actually think football throwing strength has more of a correlation than baseball pitching speed.

I certainly agree that a strong run up and great motion with great mechanics is more important when you start getting into the high 100's. Sub 150, you can get by with a strong throwing arm.

That's all. I agree with you, I was just trying to make another point.

Excellent. I've been wondering what a less powerful athlete can do with great technique but little arm strength. Any input?