Who is more washed up?

[Mr. Powers]

I think Marion Jones is...i mean she didn't even make the 100 in the olympics. Greene did and got 3rd. I think he still got some time left in him.

[AsthenicAthlete]

3rd at Olympics... 4th at US Olympic Trials. How is this even a poll?

[Sully 800]

Some day i want to try coming back to running shortly after I give birth, though the chances of that happening are probably low.

[cnick]

How is this even a poll?

Forget the baby, think about her involvement in the BALCO stuff. She's very shady.

[Cocca]

Greene shouldnt even be considered, he got 3rd at the last Olympics.

[BroeJob_5K]

Greene isnt washed up at all... marion jones is done... thread closed.

[vallistastud49]

This remains to be seen. The shelf life of sprinters, especially in the U.S., is very short. Marion, however, would have an upper hand since she has run a 49.5 400. So if she wanted to she could defiantely step up, which could prolong her career. Doubt it will happen but she'd have a better shot than Greene.

I don't think either of them are washed up.

[jrun]

This remains to be seen. The shelf life of sprinters, especially in the U.S., is very short.

And as such, what Maurice Greene has done for almost a decade now has been phenomenal.

[Mrr82]

This remains to be seen. The shelf life of sprinters, especially in the U.S., is very short. Marion, however, would have an upper hand since she has run a 49.5 400. So if she wanted to she could defiantely step up, which could prolong her career. Doubt it will happen but she'd have a better shot than Greene.

I don't think either of them are washed up.

Well i might have agreed with you if this was a few years ago...but marion has clearly lost a step in the short sprints since she got off the drugs when she had a baby, and with the huge group of young 400 meter stars popping up, she might not have as much future in the 400 as she could have had a few years ago now that she's lost a step.

[Mrr82]

Greene shouldnt even be considered, he got 3rd at the last Olympics.

I definatly agree...and it's more then that....he ran a Phenominal time while taking third not losing by much at all...not to mention losing to two amazing sprinters who had just joined up with Marion and Montgomery's former coach....what did you expect?

[vallistastud49]

Well i might have agreed with you if this was a few years ago...but marion has clearly lost a step in the short sprints since she got off the drugs when she had a baby, and with the huge group of young 400 meter stars popping up, she might not have as much future in the 400 as she could have had a few years ago now that she's lost a step.

Well, you're entitled to your assumptions, but are you familiar with the careers of Valerie Briscoe and Gwen Torrence? Both came back and continued stellar careers after giving birth.

[run1023]

She is not taking 'roids anymore because of the BALCO investigation. Without them she is average at best.

[myxomatosis]

http://pic14.picturetrail.com:80/VOL499/2788691/5597939/92605700.jpg

[Kniteryder]

Well i might have agreed with you if this was a few years ago...but marion has clearly lost a step in the short sprints since she got off the drugs when she had a baby, and with the huge group of young 400 meter stars popping up, she might not have as much future in the 400 as she could have had a few years ago now that she's lost a step.


I don't recall Marion ever being on drugs, so if u can kindly supply us with the evidence of that we would appreciate it....

Now, if u want to be honest, THE FACT THAT SHE HAD A BABY AND FINISHED TOP 4(5) at trials is just short of AMAZING...I said this b4 the trials last year that she will not be able to run the times of old until she has been training for atleast a year and a half(AT LEAST). THat is how long it takes for a female sprinter to really regain her prior form after giving birth. Even sprinters like Torrance and Brisco has said the same thing...she was just being really aggresssive with her approach. Don't worry she will be back this yr, in her normal clean self. And u can say whatever but it was a relatively slow year on a whole for the women's 100m sprint, with only Lauryn WIlliams able to handle the duties.

[Kniteryder]

I definatly agree...and it's more then that....he ran a Phenominal time while taking third not losing by much at all...not to mention losing to two amazing sprinters who had just joined up with Marion and Montgomery's former coach....what did you expect?


Why then would he use PED/Steroids for any of his athletes when he sent the cyringe to USADA in the first place...stick to predicting other things, because u are no drug commision/tester or whatever u want to call it.

[REOfan]

Marion sucks, Maurice rules. EOS.

[Brumund-Smith]

And u can say whatever but it was a relatively slow year on a whole for the women's 100m sprint, with only Lauryn WIlliams able to handle the duties.

That further proves the point AGAINST what you are saying. The men's Olympic 100m final was perhaps the most loaded race in history. The women's US Olympic 100m trials, were, as you said, relatively slow...and Marion STILL couldn't make the team. Baby or not, she's no where near Maurice's level right now.

[Kniteryder]

That further proves the point AGAINST what you are saying. The men's Olympic 100m final was perhaps the most loaded race in history. The women's US Olympic 100m trials, were, as you said, relatively slow...and Marion STILL couldn't make the team. Baby or not, she's no where near Maurice's level right now.


My comment wasn't comparing her to Maurice because they don't have the same circumstances. Both athletes are great, but neither are washed up, with regards to the topic. IMO

[Zat0pek]

How can you possibly ask this question and not include Gabe Jennings in your poll?

[Mrr82]

Why then would he use PED/Steroids for any of his athletes when he sent the cyringe to USADA in the first place...stick to predicting other things, because u are no drug commision/tester or whatever u want to call it.


You think what was on that syringe is the only thing out there they can take that's not detectable? His athletes got off it, and then Grahman screwed the other camps he was having fights with about who had the better drugs, so he sent in the syringe so they would get busted...and get busted most of their camp did.

His own athletes left him for Charlie Francis to get away from the spotlight of the drug scandle....he then got some new athletes who for some reason had no reservations of joining a camp where drugs were being given out. You have shawn Crawford talking about how much he added to his bench press since joining Grahams camp....wonder how that happened.

This whole scandel started over the two sprint camps getting in an internet fight over who had the better drugs. It's not even debatable. Tim Montgomery addmitted to taking 5 different drugs.

Grahmn's athletes are juiced through the roof. And any athlete who goes to run for him is just going there to get the newest drugs, not for coaching. Grahams should have been banned, only reason he hasn't is because he sent in the syringe which in response they left him alone.

[Mrr82]

Well, you're entitled to your assumptions, but are you familiar with the careers of Valerie Briscoe and Gwen Torrence? Both came back and continued stellar careers after giving birth.

My assumptions weren't based on her having a kid, they were on Mo Green still being extremly fast.

[jrun]

How can you possibly ask this question and not include Gabe Jennings in your poll?

Easy as pumpkin pie.

To be washed up, one must have already had some level of success prior. In this case, international (because yes, I know Jennings was one of top U.S. guys during college and shortly thereafter years).

[JSC.Rnr]

You think what was on that syringe is the only thing out there they can take that's not detectable? His athletes got off it, and then Grahman screwed the other camps he was having fights with about who had the better drugs, so he sent in the syringe so they would get busted...and get busted most of their camp did.

His own athletes left him for Charlie Francis to get away from the spotlight of the drug scandle....he then got some new athletes who for some reason had no reservations of joining a camp where drugs were being given out. You have shawn Crawford talking about how much he added to his bench press since joining Grahams camp....wonder how that happened.

This whole scandel started over the two sprint camps getting in an internet fight over who had the better drugs. It's not even debatable. Tim Montgomery addmitted to taking 5 different drugs.

Grahmn's athletes are juiced through the roof. And any athlete who goes to run for him is just going there to get the newest drugs, not for coaching. Grahams should have been banned, only reason he hasn't is because he sent in the syringe which in response they left him alone.

Who the **** are you to decide the guilt of Crawford and Gatlin?

Until proven guilty, or even suspected of being guilty, Crawford and Gatlin are world champions. Period.

To bring this to a personal level, after following the advice of thefattys I added improbable gains in my deadlift, bench and squat -- does this mean I'm on digital roids?

[Mrr82]

Who the **** are you to decide the guilt of Crawford and Gatlin?

Until proven guilty, or even suspected of being guilty, Crawford and Gatlin are world champions. Period.

To bring this to a personal level, after following the advice of thefattys I added improbable gains in my deadlift, bench and squat -- does this mean I'm on digital roids?


They were olympic champions actually. Regardless they are guilty in my mind and always will be. Grahams guilty as hell....him and his project World Record where they pumped every undetectable drug possible into Monty which led to a 9.78 from him... for them to choose to go to him shows their guilt. The guilty go where the good drugs are, and Graham by his own admission had the best drugs.

[bluphi1914]

I don't think neither athlete is washed up. They both have something left in the tank. I don't think Marion had a bad year. I'm sure she was well aware that she can't come back and run 10.8 or so after having a baby. This year we'll see now that she is working w/the coach from Norfolk State, but then again if she does start running 10.8s and 10.7s you all will say she is on drugs... and if she runs 11.1s or 11.2s you all will say she got slow cuz she wasn't on drugs.....so this sista can't win for losing. DO YOU THANG MARION. RUN A 10.45 IF YOU HAVE TO.

[robert kelly]

This remains to be seen. The shelf life of sprinters, especially in the U.S., is very short. Marion, however, would have an upper hand since she has run a 49.5 400. So if she wanted to she could defiantely step up, which could prolong her career. Doubt it will happen but she'd have a better shot than Greene.

I don't think either of them are washed up.Marion will run the 400 this weekend at the Mt. Sac Relays, so I believe will get a pretty good idea where she's at.......

[hungso_lo]

That further proves the point AGAINST what you are saying. The men's Olympic 100m final was perhaps the most loaded race in history. The women's US Olympic 100m trials, were, as you said, relatively slow...and Marion STILL couldn't make the team. Baby or not, she's no where near Maurice's level right now.


This goes for Mrr too.

Mo had 2 "down" years before last year. It's unfair and illogical to compare the two because last year was Mo's 1st year getting back to doing what he usually does. Mo made it to the World Championships in 2003 only because he had a bye. Who's to say he would have mae it if he had to go through the rounds.

Marion just had a baby, for her to come back and run what she did, and jump what she did is incredible. I mean it wasn't like she was running 11.5 She had a windy sub11, and was consistantly around 11.0 - 11.1 the whole year. I don't think she's anywhere near washed up.

Mo shouldn't even be in the discussion. The guy runs 9.8, and a $h!+ load of sub 10's last year and he's part of a topic that includes washed up?

[Kniteryder]

This goes for Mrr too.

Mo had 2 "down" years before last year. It's unfair and illogical to compare the two because last year was Mo's 1st year getting back to doing what he usually does. Mo made it to the World Championships in 2003 only because he had a bye. Who's to say he would have mae it if he had to go through the rounds.

Marion just had a baby, for her to come back and run what she did, and jump what she did is incredible. I mean it wasn't like she was running 11.5 She had a windy sub11, and was consistantly around 11.0 - 11.1 the whole year. I don't think she's anywhere near washed up.

Mo shouldn't even be in the discussion. The guy runs 9.8, and a $h!+ load of sub 10's last year and he's part of a topic that includes washed up?

Thank you...many athletes don't get to their level and already they are washed up....its carzy how some of these people think! :rolleyes:

[mzungu]

mo is by no means washed up; in fact, last year on a few occasions he was nearly as good as ever. he was barely out of gold at the olympics in the 100m in a stellar time, a loaded race. he's a worker. he'll be up there still this year. marion jones should have a better year than last year, if she's fully into it. no one ever questioned her talent. i believe that her talent, with health, and tough training equals a 10.8-10.9 runner.

gabe jennings is making a comeback! 14:45 5k to start. that's not good, but he never broke 14 in the 5k. he's back at stanford with the farm team. maybe he'll return--we could always use a few more characters among our distance runners. meanwhile, i'll settle for the guy with a chance to break 3:30 some day.

[hungso_lo]

I definatly agree...and it's more then that....he ran a Phenominal time while taking third not losing by much at all...not to mention losing to two amazing sprinters who had just joined up with Marion and Montgomery's former coach....what did you expect?

Just because you think an athlete is on drugs doesn't mean that another athlete will automatically lose to them. Or that it's ok that someone loses to them. Tim is faster and probably more talented than both Gatlin & Crawford, and Mo beat him regularly. Mo beat Gatlin in every race this year but Athens. Mo beat Crawford as well on more than one occasion. And it wasn't drugs that lost Mo the race in Athens. Mo gave that race away from the start. He did a lot of things different in that race that cost him at the end. Had be been a bit more patient he would be a two time defending Olympic champ.

Well i might have agreed with you if this was a few years ago...but marion has clearly lost a step in the short sprints since she got off the drugs when she had a baby, and with the huge group of young 400 meter stars popping up, she might not have as much future in the 400 as she could have had a few years ago now that she's lost a step.

Drugs or not, it would be nothing short of amazing if she was able to come back and still run what she was running before. If she came back and was running 10.8, I would even think she was on drugs. But she came back and was slower than before, which is what most human females would do after a baby.

[Mrr82]

Tim is faster and probably more talented than both Gatlin & Crawford, and Mo beat him regularly.

Is that a joke? Montgomery more talented then Gatlin? Mont only because great after his "project world record" when he started taking every drug possible. Gatlin left college after his sophmore year running 10.05 and 19.86 or something along those lines. Crawford was the one who tied the indoor 200 meter collegiate record was he not? Gatlin and Crawford are two of hte most talented sprinters out there drugs or no drugs. Mont does not compare talent wise, just drug wise.

[jrun]

Tim Montgomery was a NOBODY on the world stage before he got on the juice. He was an also-ran...just as Kelli White was before her break-out season.

[Mrr82]

Tim Montgomery was a NOBODY on the world stage before he got on the juice. He was an also-ran...just as Kelli White was before her break-out season.


Exactly, he is not near as talented as Crawford or Gatlin.....those were the two worst examples of sprinters minus maybe Carl lewis who Hungslo could have said Mont was more talented then.

Although i wont' be so nieve as to think it isn't possible that non of those guys were on drugs prior to leaving college or even prior to entering college. But Gatlin was for sure one of the greatest college sprinters ever, and would have left quite a mark if he had stayed.

[JSC.Rnr]

Exactly, he is not near as talented as Crawford or Gatlin.....those were the two worst examples of sprinters minus maybe Carl lewis who Hungslo could have said Mont was more talented then.

Although i wont' be so nieve as to think it isn't possible that non of those guys were on drugs prior to leaving college or even prior to entering college. But Gatlin was for sure one of the greatest college sprinters ever, and would have left quite a mark if he had stayed.

He could've said Bob Hayes or MJ.

The 19.86 was wind-aided, but he still had to get around the track that fast.

[hungso_lo]

Is that a joke? Montgomery more talented then Gatlin? Mont only because great after his "project world record" when he started taking every drug possible. Gatlin left college after his sophmore year running 10.05 and 19.86 or something along those lines. Crawford was the one who tied the indoor 200 meter collegiate record was he not? Gatlin and Crawford are two of hte most talented sprinters out there drugs or no drugs. Mont does not compare talent wise, just drug wise.


You are obviously stuck on the drug thing. And you dont seem to remember anything past the last year or two. Tim ran 9.96 when he was 19. You can't have t both ways man. On one hand you say Gatlin & Crawford are guilty by association, then you say drugs or no drugs they're two of the most talented sprinters. Choose one side and stick to it. Crawfords improvement from one year to the next was far greater than Tim. Tim had been running 9.9-10.0 his whole pro career. Do you know he has one of the fastest splits ever for the(96)3rd leg on the 4x1? On what grounds are you saying that Tim isn't as talented or more talented. Do you think he was on drugs his whole life. In 1997 he was 3rd in Athens running 9.94, ahead of Frank Fredercks, Ato Boldon, Bruny Surin, & Mike Marsh. This was long before any drug talk was around. And he's been in the final of every major championship since then except Sydney. Did project world record start in 96? Do you actually have a reason for saying he's not talented or has the drug talk got to you that much?

[hungso_lo]

Tim Montgomery was a NOBODY on the world stage before he got on the juice. He was an also-ran...just as Kelli White was before her break-out season.

Nobody? How long have you been keeping up with track? For you to say that would mean that you've only been a fan of track for the past two years. Do you know how many world championship finals has Tim been a part of? He's been in everyone since 97, running 9.85, 9.94, 10.04, & 10.11 A nobody doesn't make it to the final of 4 consecutive world championships. Especially beating the people he did. What did he place in 98 in the goodwill games? Just because someone hasn't won, doesn't mean they're a nobody. Kelli White placed 3rd in the 200m in 2001. Which was really her break out season, not when she actually won. After she placed 3rd in Edmonton, that's when people start noticing her, not after she won in 2003.

[bluphi1914]

Man Hung so Lo...u preaching up in this camp...i guess we gonna have to pass the collection place... :) I agree w/all u said.

[Mrr82]

You are obviously stuck on the drug thing. And you dont seem to remember anything past the last year or two. Tim ran 9.96 when he was 19. You can't have t both ways man. On one hand you say Gatlin & Crawford are guilty by association, then you say drugs or no drugs they're two of the most talented sprinters. Choose one side and stick to it. Crawfords improvement from one year to the next was far greater than Tim. Tim had been running 9.9-10.0 his whole pro career. Do you know he has one of the fastest splits ever for the(96)3rd leg on the 4x1? On what grounds are you saying that Tim isn't as talented or more talented. Do you think he was on drugs his whole life. In 1997 he was 3rd in Athens running 9.94, ahead of Frank Fredercks, Ato Boldon, Bruny Surin, & Mike Marsh. This was long before any drug talk was around. And he's been in the final of every major championship since then except Sydney. Did project world record start in 96? Do you actually have a reason for saying he's not talented or has the drug talk got to you that much?

And do you honestly think a guy who took every drug possible to break the world record has been clean the rest of his career? Please....Also he did run 9.96 at age 19...but it didn't count because they messed up the wind guages...but reports were that there was a STRONG wind at his back. Not to mention he ran 9.79 with the highest wind allowable and almost the fastest possible reaction time allowed and was probably actually a false start. His time was really worth more of a 9.88ish without this perfect situation. Green wuold have ran 9.70 with that start and that wind that Monty had if it happened during his 9.79 run. Monts not as talented as you make him out to be.

He's a cheater and probably always has been a cheater, and had to have all the stars align with his drugs just right to break the World Record.

[hungso_lo]

And do you honestly think a guy who took every drug possible to break the world record has been clean the rest of his career? Please....Also he did run 9.96 at age 19...but it didn't count because they messed up the wind guages...but reports were that there was a STRONG wind at his back. Not to mention he ran 9.79 with the highest wind allowable and almost the fastest possible reaction time allowed and was probably actually a false start. His time was really worth more of a 9.88ish without this perfect situation. Green wuold have ran 9.70 with that start and that wind that Monty had if it happened during his 9.79 run. Monts not as talented as you make him out to be.

He's a cheater and probably always has been a cheater, and had to have all the stars align with his drugs just right to break the World Record.

What makes you think he took every drug possible? Everyone has their reasons why his world record was tainted. Whether it's his reaction time and the wind, or that he took drugs. If you really want to be unbiased, pay attention to these races that you're misinterpreting. Tim has never had a good or consistant start. It's always up and down. So if you watch that world record race again, you'll see that even though he had the fastest reaction, he wasn't the 1st out of the blocks. Him, Dwain, Drummond, & Kim Collins were practically even til 50m. And as much as people talk about fast tracks, did you bother to check out what they were running on in Paris when he broke the record. It was far from being Mondo

When you have facts in front of you, you choose to ignore them and act like a little baby. You say he's never been a force until he took drugs. I give you stats on his career, then you say he's always been cheatin. And now all of a sudden he false started, cuz his reaction was so good?

The 9.96 he ran wasn't disqualified because of the wind. Some officials said the track was too short. By something in the area of a centimeter if I remember correctly. I never heard anything about wind.

[Brumund-Smith]

This goes for Mrr too.

Mo had 2 "down" years before last year. It's unfair and illogical to compare the two because last year was Mo's 1st year getting back to doing what he usually does. Mo made it to the World Championships in 2003 only because he had a bye. Who's to say he would have mae it if he had to go through the rounds.

Marion just had a baby, for her to come back and run what she did, and jump what she did is incredible. I mean it wasn't like she was running 11.5 She had a windy sub11, and was consistantly around 11.0 - 11.1 the whole year. I don't think she's anywhere near washed up.


Read the name of the post. I am comparing the two because the thread compares the two. I do believe Marion is a bit washed up right now AS COMPARED TO WHERE SHE USED TO BE! She just ran a 55.03 in the 400m! (I know you wrote this post before that race). Sorry, but even this early in the season, that is a little washed up. If MJ had run a 48, he would have been called washed up.

While I was never a huge Marion fan, I did used to like her as an athlete. I never really understood why she insisted on wearing 'man pants' in all her events, but that was beside the point. I would not be surprised to find out she was on drugs, but I am in no position to accuse her of anything.

[Mrr82]

What makes you think he took every drug possible? Everyone has their reasons why his world record was tainted. Whether it's his reaction time and the wind, or that he took drugs. If you really want to be unbiased, pay attention to these races that you're misinterpreting. Tim has never had a good or consistant start. It's always up and down. So if you watch that world record race again, you'll see that even though he had the fastest reaction, he wasn't the 1st out of the blocks. Him, Dwain, Drummond, & Kim Collins were practically even til 50m. And as much as people talk about fast tracks, did you bother to check out what they were running on in Paris when he broke the record. It was far from being Mondo

When you have facts in front of you, you choose to ignore them and act like a little baby. You say he's never been a force until he took drugs. I give you stats on his career, then you say he's always been cheatin. And now all of a sudden he false started, cuz his reaction was so good?

The 9.96 he ran wasn't disqualified because of the wind. Some officials said the track was too short. By something in the area of a centimeter if I remember correctly. I never heard anything about wind.

ok so i think he was on basically every drug...because he admitted to being on 5 drugs...sure they're are probably mroe out there, i was just making a point that he was drugged out of his mind. Secondly if he never has a good start, the point that he had the best start that HE personally could have had was a very rare occurence. lastly the 9.96 was disqualified becuase of improper placement of wind guages and the obvious strong winds that were benefiting the athletes. Not sure about the track being short...but there was definatly a problem with the wind guages. How many times has he legally broke 10 before 2001 which is around the time when this whole project world record thing started or around there?

Why do you thik he had to cancel his race the next week after breaking the WR....citing his body hurt too much from running so fast. because the drugs made his body go faster then it wanted too. I said it when it happened that it made no sense, and that it was a sign he was on drugs and people thought i was retarded for saying so....turned out to be true.

[TrackDaddy]

I still don't think Marion used drugs.

I think she'll run fast again soon.

But I also thought Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson, Scott Peterson, Pete Rose, Kelli White, Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, Ken Caminiti and OJ Simpson were innocent.

At one time or another I have publicly defended them all.

Mostly, I only see the good in people.

Go figure. :o

[hungso_lo]

ok so i think he was on basically every drug...because he admitted to being on 5 drugs...sure they're are probably mroe out there, i was just making a point that he was drugged out of his mind. Secondly if he never has a good start, the point that he had the best start that HE personally could have had was a very rare occurence. lastly the 9.96 was disqualified becuase of improper placement of wind guages and the obvious strong winds that were benefiting the athletes. Not sure about the track being short...but there was definatly a problem with the wind guages. How many times has he legally broke 10 before 2001 which is around the time when this whole project world record thing started or around there?

Why do you thik he had to cancel his race the next week after breaking the WR....citing his body hurt too much from running so fast. because the drugs made his body go faster then it wanted too. I said it when it happened that it made no sense, and that it was a sign he was on drugs and people thought i was retarded for saying so....turned out to be true.


Anyone with some kind of knowledge about the sprints, knows that a good reaction, doesn't mean a good start. You can have a .100 reaction and still have a bad start. It wasn't about him having the best start that he could have had. He didn't start any differently in that race than he did in all the others. I have the splits for that race, and I can show you how much that reaction time didn't help him. All he did was react better. Someone like Greene would benefit more from a reaction like that because he has a much better and more consistant start. Gatlin had a .188 reaction in Athens and look what happened.

He had 5 sub10's before 2001.

The only time that Tim has where the wind gauge was a problem was in Edmonton in 2001. Every bio i've read on Tim, has said that he ran 9.96 wen he was 19. Then it says that it wasn't official because the track was too short. Never have I heard anything about the wind gauge. If you can find something saying it was, i'll be glad to admit I was wrong.

You don't have to be on drugs for your body to be sore after running fast. If you've ever done a real speed workout, you'll know how badly your body will be hurting afterwards. Drugs has nothing to do with someone being sore after a race. Do you think he needed to run another race for him to be tested. You think that someone breaks a record, and they just go on without anyone saying anything. He didn't even run a relay that was scheduled for that same meet where he broke the record. So I would say that he really was hurting.

[Brumund-Smith]

I still don't think Marion used drugs.

I think she'll run fast again soon.

But I also thought Michael Jackson, Mike Tyson, Scott Peterson, Pete Rose, Kelli White, Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, Ken Caminiti and OJ Simpson were innocent.

At one time or another I have publicly defended them all.

Mostly, I only see the good in people.

Go figure. :o

You are kind of a 'benefit of the doubt' guy. You know, I think Michael Jackson is still the best entertainer in the history of the world, I absolutely loved how Pete Rose played baseball and I think O.J. Simpson was a fantastic athlete. It's too bad all this has happened to those people (mostly through their own fault, of course). I could never stand Barry Bonds or Mike Tyson.

Basically all signs point towards Tim Montgomery being guilty of drug abuse. The only thing he didn't have was muscles bulging out of his neck like Ben Johnson. As far as I am concerned, he is not the world record holder in the 100m dash.

[Brumund-Smith]

Anyone with some kind of knowledge about the sprints, knows that a good reaction, doesn't mean a good start. You can have a .100 reaction and still have a bad start. It wasn't about him having the best start that he could have had. He didn't start any differently in that race than he did in all the others. I have the splits for that race, and I can show you how much that reaction time didn't help him. All he did was react better. Someone like Greene would benefit more from a reaction like that because he has a much better and more consistant start. Gatlin had a .188 reaction in Athens and look what happened.

Anybody with some kind of knowledge knows that a better reaction is ALWAYS better (all else even) than a slower reaction. The reaction time affects everybody (timewise) equally. If Tim Montgomery ran a 9.78 with a 0.10 reaction time, that means he would have run 9.79 with 0.11 reaction time. All else even, you can't mess with time. A quicker reaction time is ALWAYS better than a slower reaction time. Reacting to the gun in 0.10 seconds is ALWAYS preferable to reacting to the gun in 0.25 seconds. That's 0.15 seconds you've chopped off your time without expelling any more energy. It does not matter whether it is Maurice Greene, Tim Montgomery, Justin Gatlin or Oprah Winfrey.

[Mrr82]

Anybody with some kind of knowledge knows that a better reaction is ALWAYS better (all else even) than a slower reaction. The reaction time affects everybody (timewise) equally. If Tim Montgomery ran a 9.78 with a 0.10 reaction time, that means he would have run 9.79 with 0.11 reaction time. All else even, you can't mess with time. A quicker reaction time is ALWAYS better than a slower reaction time. Reacting to the gun in 0.10 seconds is ALWAYS preferable to reacting to the gun in 0.25 seconds. That's 0.15 seconds you've chopped off your time without expelling any more energy. It does not matter whether it is Maurice Greene, Tim Montgomery, Justin Gatlin or Oprah Winfrey.

Exactly, what you do after the start is irrelevant to the reaction time helping you....if you start poorly off a .10 it's better then starting poorly off a .20.

[hungso_lo]

Anybody with some kind of knowledge knows that a better reaction is ALWAYS better (all else even) than a slower reaction. The reaction time affects everybody (timewise) equally. If Tim Montgomery ran a 9.78 with a 0.10 reaction time, that means he would have run 9.79 with 0.11 reaction time. All else even, you can't mess with time. A quicker reaction time is ALWAYS better than a slower reaction time. Reacting to the gun in 0.10 seconds is ALWAYS preferable to reacting to the gun in 0.25 seconds. That's 0.15 seconds you've chopped off your time without expelling any more energy. It does not matter whether it is Maurice Greene, Tim Montgomery, Justin Gatlin or Oprah Winfrey.


Reaction time means nothing if you don't have a good start technically. Block clearance is far more important than who moves after the gun 1st. Gatlin had .188 in Athens but because his start and acceleration was technically better than everyone else, he was able to win the race. If he had a .135, his time might have been slower because he wouldn't have done the same things right technically. Look what happened to Maurice Greene. He tried to rush, had the fastest reaction time(other than Collins) yet he came in 3rd. And it wasn't because they were faster than him. You're talking about all things being even, but the reaction time differences change all of that. People execute differently when they do certain things different. You're treating this as if we're talking about machines that do the same job the same way every time. At least use a realistic comparison. .10 and .25 is not something that you're gonna see every day.

[Track Dude]

Marion will run the 400 this weekend at the Mt. Sac Relays, so I believe will get a pretty good idea where she's at.......

I am a BIG fan of Marion and was at the Olympic Trials when she broke-down and began weeping during the interview that she gave from the infield just after the long jump finals . . . But this must have frustrated the hell out of her!

Mt. SAC Invitational 400m Results

1 Novlene Williams Stellar Titans 51.49
2 Lashinda Demus Nike 51.79
3 Jana Pittman Aus 52.33
4 Shellene Williams Puma 53.33
5 Mary Danner Unattached 53.34
6 Marion Jones Nike 55.03 :(

[Brumund-Smith]

Reaction time means nothing if you don't have a good start technically. Block clearance is far more important than who moves after the gun 1st. Gatlin had .188 in Athens but because his start and acceleration was technically better than everyone else, he was able to win the race. If he had a .135, his time might have been slower because he wouldn't have done the same things right technically. Look what happened to Maurice Greene. He tried to rush, had the fastest reaction time(other than Collins) yet he came in 3rd. And it wasn't because they were faster than him. You're talking about all things being even, but the reaction time differences change all of that. People execute differently when they do certain things different. You're treating this as if we're talking about machines that do the same job the same way every time. At least use a realistic comparison. .10 and .25 is not something that you're gonna see every day.

I know what you are trying to say and I agree with you somewhat. People can worry TOO MUCH about reacting to the gun and not enough about coming out of the blocks properly. But ALL ELSE EVEN you always want a better reaction time. That's all I was trying to say. I am sure Justin Gatlin would have loved to have had exactly the same start as he did in Athens, but just with a 0.08 faster reaction time, which is entirely possible. I am sure he was not thinking, "Well, I'll sit in these blocks a little bit longer, but that will help the technique of my start." Regardless, these people try to react to the gun as quickly as possible.

The notion that a quick reaction helps a consistent starter like Mo Greene more than a guy like Tim Montgomery is ludicrous as best. Unless I am mistaken (which is possible) everybody wants to be ahead at the beginning of a 100m dash. I am not implying that these people go 100% all-out right from the gun. But a reaction time that is 0.03 seconds faster will put you a few inches ahead. In that sense, people would rather be ahead than behind. All else even, a faster reaction time is ALWAYS PREFERABLE.

Remember, the reaction times measure how quickly you press back on the pad, not how quickly your foot get down to the ground. You do not have to be a robot in order to have consistent starts and varying reaction times.

[fourjz]

I am a BIG fan of Marion and was at the Olympic Trials when she broke-down and began weeping during the interview that she gave from the infield just after the long jump finals . . . But this must have frustrated the hell out of her!

Mt. SAC Invitational 400m Results

1 Novlene Williams Stellar Titans 51.49
2 Lashinda Demus Nike 51.79
3 Jana Pittman Aus 52.33
4 Shellene Williams Puma 53.33
5 Mary Danner Unattached 53.34
6 Marion Jones Nike 55.03 :(

Especially after "2 months of training in Hawaii" .Did they have a stopwatch over in Hawaii ? To see if she was hitting times to come to Mt.Sac and run well ? :(

[daman]

Official Result
Men - 100 Metres - Final
Wind: +1.4 m/s
Pos Athlete Nat Mark

1 Greene Maurice USA 10.03
2 Pognon Ronald FRA 10.09
3 Phillips Dwight USA 10.14
4 Montgomery Tim USA 10.14
5 Egbele Aaron NGR 10.19
6 Capel John USA 10.31
8 Wesley DeMario USA 10.35
9 Armstrong Aaron USA 10.38

Official Result
Women - 100 Metres - Heat 1
Wind: -0.1 m/s
Pos Athlete Nat Mark

1 Jones Marion USA 11.40
2 Barber Me'Lisa USA 11.51
3 Jones LaVerne ISV 11.52
4 Atangana Delphine CMR 11.70
5 Bailey Jade BAR 11.75
6 Daley Jenice JAM 11.96


http://www.iaaf.org/gp05/results/eventCode=3360/gender=M/discipline=100/index.html

[Kniteryder]

Official Result
Men - 100 Metres - Final
Wind: +1.4 m/s
Pos Athlete Nat Mark

1 Greene Maurice USA 10.03
2 Pognon Ronald FRA 10.09
3 Phillips Dwight USA 10.14
4 Montgomery Tim USA 10.14
5 Egbele Aaron NGR 10.19
6 Capel John USA 10.31
8 Wesley DeMario USA 10.35
9 Armstrong Aaron USA 10.38

Official Result
Women - 100 Metres - Heat 1
Wind: -0.1 m/s
Pos Athlete Nat Mark

1 Jones Marion USA 11.40
2 Barber Me'Lisa USA 11.51
3 Jones LaVerne ISV 11.52
4 Atangana Delphine CMR 11.70
5 Bailey Jade BAR 11.75
6 Daley Jenice JAM 11.96


http://www.iaaf.org/gp05/results/eventCode=3360/gender=M/discipline=100/index.html

She ran 11.27 in the finals to win

[mzungu]

How can you possibly ask this question and not include Gabe Jennings in your poll?

gabe jennings ran 3:43 to win his heat at stanford yesterday.

[LOLLERSKATES]

i think marion jones is more washed up. when's her next meet anyway? i haven't heard anything from her lately.

[ElHollingsworth]

lol @ everyone on this thread defending marion jones.

[Adrenaline]

alan webb.

[Paul Banks]

Roger Clemens.

[bdaniels]

Tony the Tiger.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00372/SNN1525U_280_372251a.jpg

I mean, when was the last time we've seen him in a Frosted Flakes commercial on television? :rolleyes:

bd

[Saint Ashlar]

I am most washed up!

[inyoface]

Tony the Tiger.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00372/SNN1525U_280_372251a.jpg

I mean, when was the last time we've seen him in a Frosted Flakes commercial on television? :rolleyes:

bd
OMG seriously!

I am most washed up!
Did you race at all this outdoor season?

[Leftfielder]

Wow, the first incarnation of Joe Crouch returns!

[Saint Ashlar]

Did you race at all this outdoor season?

This outdoor season hasn't started yet, last season I ran two 3k's (10:10 and 9:08).

[inyoface]

This outdoor season hasn't started yet, last season I ran two 3k's (10:10 and 9:08).
I meant indoor haha. Don't know why I put "out". The 9:08 is a pr amirite? (no stalker).

[Saint Ashlar]

I meant indoor haha. Don't know why I put "out". The 9:08 is a pr amirite? (no stalker).

Yep.

[inyoface]

Yep.
Washed up huh? :D

[Saint Ashlar]

Washed up huh? :D

You know it.

[inyoface]

You know it.
Well good luck getting unwashed :mad: