question for the legends...

[decastella]

i'm surprised fire chief hasn't brought this up on another board, but i'd like to see what the legends have to say about it --

penn hills' girls' 4x100 team was a Western PA and then state champ last year -- they were returning this year and were the overwhelming Western PA favorite minimum -- problem is that their leadoff fell over before handing off in a qualifying race -- their second leg ended up getting the baton afterward and they finished the race -- so they're out -- except they're not -- 3 teams that qualified decided to scratch after Penn Hills' coach pleaded with them to scratch so his team could go...

so my question is: do you think this is bunk or a showing of great sportsmanship?

here's a link to an article that goes into it some more...
http://www.postgazette.com/pg/05133/503895.stm

personally, i think this is bs -- the last time that i checked, getting clean handoffs was part of the qualifying process -- and i always thought it was how quickly you got the baton around the track --

what if somebody like aislinn ryan were to cramp up during a qualifying race and she wasn't able to finish? should she get to move on just because she's aislinn ryan?

[Kalaby]

An incredibly nice gesture and show of sportsmanship on the part of the three teams that scratched. It wasn't surprising to find out that they were not the upper echelon teams since they finished 6th, 9th and 10th. With all that said, though it is an incredibly nice gesture, I think it is a bit misguided. As they say, racing luck, both good and bad, is always a part of the game. People fall or get hurt, batons get dropped, etc. That's why races are never run on paper.

[New York XC]

That's kinda bs. I mean, if that's how stuff works, then why don't all the other countries Oly teams drop out of the relays every year so that when the US team drops the baton, we still get our medals.

[exjersey1]

Apparently not an isolated thing this season. This is posted on the California coaches board. Relay (http://www.dyestat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2326)

I think it makes a mockery of the qualifying process.

Don't complain about athletes behaving as though they're above the rules when they get treated as though they indeed are.

[Jwaksman]

Yeah, Hicham El Gerrouj can't slip and fall in the heats at the Olympics and expect to get through just because of his name.


The entire point of having qualifying races is to make you earn it on the given day. Otherwise, why not just put in the teams with the best times all season? Why even bother having the meet?

[running high]

I agree ^^^^

A qualifying race is just that - a race that determines whether you qualify. They didn't qualify, end of story. Or so it should have been.

[jrun]

Hey, if the other teams' athletes are willing to give up their Q spot, so be it.

As long as there was not bribery...

[KenA55]

The entire point of having qualifying races is to make you earn it on the given day. Otherwise, why not just put in the teams with the best times all season? Why even bother having the meet?

Well the NCAA used to have autoqualifiers and still does in certain events like the 10k. Is it bad for the sport to have a built-in backup method aimed at insuring the best are in the final competition? In a way that's whats hapenned here, only by optional gesture on the part of a slower relay rather than by ironclad rule.

[Jwaksman]

They have auto qualifiers only in the 10k and decathlon simply because it's not fair to ask someone to do those events in consecutive weeks, or even twice in three weeks.


I like the new regional system. It prevents most people from peaking to run a great time at Stanford in early April.

The point of this sport is to race. Times are a secondary issue. As I told one of my mid-d freshmen as he was getting ready for the 800 at Heps (Ivy League Championships), if he runs a 2:01 and wins then it would be a great race - running a 1:52 and finishing in the back means nothing.

[100% Ozone Safe]

It's a nice gesture from those three teams. But entirely unecessary. The team lost, they didn't qualify. It doesnt matter if they could win the Olympics as somebody said above that names don't get you places. Qualifying does.

Story about this:

Shannon Bergstedt (now a Stanford runner) was in my section last year for CC. She was pwning the race, seriously 200 meters in the lead. She was golden to go to the state meet, she was even expected to be the champ at state. No joke, WITHIN 10 FEET of the finish line, she hit the wall and fell over. I was standing right there and watching it. She tried over and over to get up. She couldn't. She didn't qualify for state, she didn't race at state. It was a sad sight to watch.

[running high]

Shannon Bergstedt (now a Stanford runner) was in my section last year for CC. She was pwning the race, seriously 200 meters in the lead. She was golden to go to the state meet, she was even expected to be the champ at state. No joke, WITHIN 10 FEET of the finish line, she hit the wall and fell over. I was standing right there and watching it. She tried over and over to get up. She couldn't. She didn't qualify for state, she didn't race at state. It was a sad sight to watch.

Same thing happened in Ohio, a female runner named Bailey Flask. She had a shot to win state and fell about 200 meters from the end of the regional course. She was winning by about 100m but the girl she was beating was ahead by about 400-500m.

[KenA55]

Great job, how did that Penn Hills relay come in, and what were the comparative times?

Haha, you read my mind, would you agree that's a much more satisfying win and probably better times for both because the best possible competition took place? I like rules that have some allowance for that possibility to still occur when disaster strikes in a qualifying race. To put the question another way, how far back was third?

[KenA55]

Don't need to qualify those times on my account- nobody here's cracked 49.2 yet as far as I can tell.

[cnick]

It's kind of ironic that they didn't win the state meet race.

[cnick]

I'm sorry, if you're going to treat someone (Penn Hill) like they are royality and give them a free pass then you should expect them to win. I would have felt like an ass being on that team after they were allowed to advance because they didn't do the one thing most critical to a relay: Make the handoff.

Oh well, everybody's a winner!

[idontgetit14]

I'm sorry but that coach seems pathetic. Handoffs are supposed to be part of the race. And how would you feel if you were one of the girls on one of teams that did make the finals and your coach then tells you were gona take a scratch so this other team can go???? I would be pissed as hell at my coach. It's their own fault. And above that, this team didn't even win! They got second! I think that's a load of crap.

[XCrnr9]

It would be different if the three teams talked to eachother and decided to do it as a nice gesture but its not right to ask the other teams to do it. I also agree with cnick on the not winning thing.