Top-15 Players in the NBA (revisited)

[Filipe]

According to ESPN.com's efficiency ratings (min 60 games):

1. Kevin Garnett, MIN
2. Lebron James, CLE
3. Allen Iverson, PHI
4. Dirk Nowitzki, DAL
5. Kobe Bryant, LAL
6. Amare Stoudemire, PHX
7. Tracy McGrady, HOU
8. Dwayne Wade, MIA
9. Shaquille O'Neal, MIA
10. Tim Duncan, SA
11. Gilbert Arenas, WAS
12. Shawn Marion, PHX
13. Vince Carter, NJ
14. Stephon Marbury, NY
15. Elton Brand, LAC

(The rankings take into account points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, turnovers, field goals made, TGM(?), free throws made, field goal and free throw attempts)

Let the debating begin...Tayshaun #1

:)

[Jwaksman]

As a Knicks fan, I'm re-ranking:


1) Lebron
2) Shaq
3) Garnett
4) Duncan
5) Nowitzki
6) McGrady
7) Kidd
8) Amare Stoudamire
9) Iverson
10) Wade
11) Bryant
12) Jermaine O'Neal
13) Nash
14) Carter
15) Kenyon Martin


400) Stephon Marbury

[100% Ozone Safe]

As a Knicks fan, I'm re-ranking:
400) Stephon Marbury
agreed.

[fentonfreshman]

1 Shaq
2 D Wade
3 Nashty
4 Amare
5 KG
6 TD
7 TMac
8 Bron
9 Allen
10 Dirk
11 AI
12 Kidd
13 Jermaine
14 Kobe :rolleyes:
15 KIRK

[exjersey1]

1. Iverson
2. Garnett
3. Shaq
4. Lebron
5. McGrady
6. Duncan
7. Nowitzki
8. B. Wallace
9. Wade
10. J. O'Neal
11. Allen
12. Nash
13. B. Davis
14. Ginobili
15. Brand

Edited in my 15th player since I was apparently semi-comatose initially.

[Jwaksman]

Okay, my brain needs work, so I tallied up those 4 lists that we have so far (15 points for first, 1 point for 15th, etc). Exjersey only listed 14 people, so I'll assume Ginobilli is 14th, and he can add a 15th person if he wants:


1) Garnett 53
2T) Lebron 49
2T) Shaq 49
4) Iverson 40
5) McGrady 39
6T) Nowitzki 38
6T) Duncan 38
8) Wade 35
9) Amare 30
10) Jermaine 23
11) Nash 20
12) Kobe 18
13) Kidd 13
14) Allen 12
15) B. Wallace 8
16T) Carter 5
16T) Areanas 5
18) Marion 4
19) Davis 3
20T) Ginobilli 2
20T) Marbury 2
22T) Brand 1
22T) Martin 1
22T) Hinrich 1


This is what Physics majors do when they have no work to do.... :D

[fentonfreshman]

Okay, my brain needs work, so I tallied up those 4 lists that we have so far (15 points for first, 1 point for 15th, etc). Exjersey only listed 14 people, so I'll assume Ginobilli is 14th, and he can add a 15th person if he wants:


1) Garnett 53
2T) Lebron 49
2T) Shaq 49
4) Iverson 40
5) McGrady 39
6T) Nowitzki 38
6T) Duncan 38
8) Wade 35
9) Amare 30
10) Jermaine 23
11) Nash 20
12) Kobe 18
13) Kidd 13
14) Allen 12
15) B. Wallace 8
16T) Carter 5
16T) Areanas 5
18) Marion 4
19) Davis 3
20T) Ginobilli 2
20T) Marbury 2
22T) Brand 1
22T) Martin 1
22T) Hinrich 1


This is what Physics majors do when they have no work to do.... :D
Mine was just a top 15 in no order.

[exjersey1]

Exjersey only listed 14 people, so I'll assume Ginobilli is 14th, and he can add a 15th person if he wants:




This is what Physics majors do when they have no work to do.... :D

That'll teach me to switch people around and not recheck the whole list. I'll edit in another player.

[Dyenimator]

1. Garnett
2. Shaq
3. AI
4. LeBron
5. Kobe
6. T-Mac
7. Kidd
8. Nash
9. Duncan
10. Dirk
11. Wade
12. Amare
13. Brand
14. Allen
15. Carter

[Filipe]

FIRE CHIEF's list:

1. SHAQ
2. Stoudamire
3. Garnett
4. Duncan
5. THE ANSWER
6. Lebron James
7. Dwyane Wade
8. Tracy McGrady
9. Ray Allen
10. Steve Nash
11. Manu Ginobili
12. Jermaine O'Neal
13. Vince Carter
14. Chauncey Billups(PLEASE let him loose Larry Brown)
15. Shawn Marion

[HurdlinDuck110]

1. Garnett
2. Shaq
3. AI
4. LeBron
5. Kobe
6. T-Mac
7. Kidd
8. Nash
9. Duncan
10. Dirk
11. Nash
12. Wade
13. Amare
14. Brand
15. Allen

dude you have Nash twice... 8 & 11

[exjersey1]

FIRE CHIEF's list:

1. SHAQ
2. Stoudamire
3. Garnett
4. Duncan
5. THE ANSWER
6. Lebron James
7. Dwyane Wade
8. Tracy McGrady
9. Ray Allen
10. Steve Nash
11. Manu Ginobili
12. Jermaine O'Neal
13. Vince Carter
14. Chauncey Billups(PLEASE let him loose Larry Brown)
15. Shawn Marion



Damon Stoudamire is the #2 player? Holy cow.

[makelldog]

1)Garnett
2)Lebron
3)Shaq
4)Nash
5) Nowitzki
6)Iverson
7) Dwayne Wade
8) Jermaine O'Neil
9) Kobe Bryant
10) Elton Brand
11) Kidd
12) Carter
13) T-Mac
14)Amare/Marion
15(really 16)Allen

[fentonfreshman]

Damon Stoudamire is the #2 player? Holy cow.
Amare :p

[exjersey1]

Amare :p


His last name is spelled Stoudemire, not Stoudamire.
(I was waiting for someone to catch on)

;)

[jrun]

exjersey1, nice how you leave K. Bryant off your list but thought to include Brand and Baron Davis (???).

[Sweat]

Shaq (cuz he's so dominant)
McGrady
Garnett
Duncan
Nash
Amare
Wade
Dirk
Genobli
Yao
Kobe
Ray Allen
Iverson
Lebron
Miller

[exjersey1]

exjersey1, nice how you leave K. Bryant off your list but thought to include Brand and Baron Davis (???).


For the same reason I left off guys like Vince Carter and Paul Pierce (among others).

Bryant, IMO, while obviously an excellent one-on-one player, is not what you want for your TEAM. He plays to make himself look good, not to get the 'W'. He is selfish, petulant, publicly and obviously uncoachable, and places himself above the team instead of showing any willingness to be part of the team.

Guys like Brand & Davis do whatever needs to be done to help their teams.

[Dyenimator]

As evidenced by the Warriors/Hornets and the Clippers records this year?

[exjersey1]

As evidenced by the Warriors/Hornets and the Clippers records this year?


Check the Warrior's pre- and post-Davis records.

BTW, the W's finished with the same record as the Lakers (including a 7-3 finish vs. LA's 1-9), and the Clippers had a better record.


Bryant's petulance and spoiled-brat behavior only cost the defending Western Champs their head coach and the most dominant player in the NBA.

Any other questions?

[Dyenimator]

Records schmecords. You're going to tell me Baron Davis is a better defender and shooter than Kobe? They're both ballhogs, so throw that out of the equation.

[fentonfreshman]

He never got rid of anybody near Shaq/Phil. That just takes him off of most lists.

[exjersey1]

Records schmecords.

Dye, you brought up the issue of the teams' records.

:confused:

[jrun]

After watching a game less than an hour ago, I'm incredibly impressionable:

1.Nash
1A.Ginobili

[Dyenimator]

Yeah I did, and all 3 teams failed to make the playoffs. Kobe had a lesser supporting cast than the Warriors and the Clippers and they were only a few games out.

[exjersey1]

Yeah I did, and all 3 teams failed to make the playoffs. Kobe had a lesser supporting cast than the Warriors and the Clippers and they were only a few games out.

It's that phrase "supporting cast" that I've always found objectionable about Bryant from day one; although he's not alone in that attitude.

I recognize that sports marketing has changed so that now a lot of guys are billed "above the title" as they'd say in the movie business; the real problem IMO sets in when guys actually see and conduct themselves that way. He doesn't now and never has viewed himself as being part of the Lakers. He clearly believes it's him and then everybody else whose function in life it is to make him look good.

Other than Jerry Buss, who in his life has he not completely alienated?

I repeat, he does not play to win, he plays to hog the spotlight.

[king99]

Ohh I don;t know..Kobe when he was right..was the top guy I think in the league. He also played very very good straight up defense.

He can and did do a lot. and lets face it Shaq didn;t win with Penny, who many including myself thought was going to be an All Timer

I am not a huge Kobe fan, but he was/is still dominant.

Those that love McGrady should look at his one dimensional game in my opinion..he is an avg. rebounder for his gifts. A good to okay defender. I think Kobe will win a title again before TMac will.

TMac stats: Ranks #5 in the NBA in Field-Goal Attempts Per 48 Minutes(25.04)

Rebounds per game..6.4 career, I think Nash just averaged 6-7 his last 5 games

again , like it or not a volume scorer..I love that term now, who shoots .444 for career..at 6'8"

[king99]

here is a Tmac stat for ya..gotta love the Internet:

Ranks #9 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goal Attempts(435.0)

This is with Yao on his team!! and he shoots it at .326???

[king99]

40!! for Wade when it counts after dismal performnace ..any doubt he IS a top 5 guy?

[Dyenimator]

Miami is supposed to kill the Pistons in this game. A must win game, all the adrenaline, all the crowd support and they only win by 6. I'm not scared.

[king99]

Ohh ..so the performance is once again minimized by you? I do not get your stuff lately?

[jrun]

Yea...not a big T-Mac fan. Just a scorer to me.

[TrackDaddy]

Who's the NBA's best player (and one of the greatest EVER)?

THE BIG FUNDAMENTAL

http://www.tustrucos.com/wallpapers/Deportes/deporte-Tim-Duncan/Timduncan0.jpg

[Kalaby]

Sorry, I don't want to hijack this thread, but this relates to one of the 15 best players in the NBA.

I just read that Shaq has offered to pay for all funeral expenses for George Mikan (there is some talk about Mikan's family having difficulty paying for the funeral). It seems that Shaq and Mikan formed quite a bond in recent years, and that there was a genuine respect and appreciation on Shaq's part towards Mikan for being the first big man in the pro game, who paved the way for Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq and all the others.

A very classy move by Shaq to honor the very classy George Mikan.

Bravo Shaq!

[mzungu]

typical for shaq. a real classy guy and the most popular nba player among his peers. it's big of him to honor the game's first great big man.

[Filipe]

In an interview right after game 5 last night, Shaq told the interviewer that he heard the Mikan's were having some troubles, so if they contacted the Heat office, he would want to pay for the funeral.

Some more about Shaq...He's also gone through police academy and has been working with an internet crimes group of the Miami police. link (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/special_packages/5min/11729748.htm)


Criminals take heed: Shaq's on patrol

Shaquille O'Neal has a fascination with law enforcement, and he's acting on it. The Heat center is part of a civilian police group working with Miami Beach police tracking Internet crime.

BY MICHELLE KAUFMAN

mkaufman@herald.com

`I can pick who's made for this business, and I will tell you Shaquille is a natural. He's the new generation of police officer.'

CAPT. RONALD BOYD

chief of the Los Angeles Port Police

Shaquille O'Neal's bum thigh prevented him from dominating during the first few rounds of the NBA Playoffs, but the Miami Heat center has been busy defending opponents more worrisome than the Detroit Pistons. Between treatment and other team commitments, O'Neal was giving new meaning to the phrase ''long arm of the law'' by helping to chase down criminals on the Internet.

Although some might think he is just looking for a new hobby, O'Neal is a bona fide law enforcement officer with a badge, training and a few arrests under his belt.

He was recently sworn in as a U.S. deputy marshal and is part of a Department of Justice task force that hunts down online sexual predators who prey on children.

On the Saturday afternoon before the Heat-Wizards series, he spent six hours with investigators at the Miami Beach Police Department, helping with cases. He spends countless hours on his home computer, logging into the police network and learning the business, Miami Beach Police Chief Don De Lucca said. O'Neal's efforts focus on the trafficking and distribution of child pornography over the Internet, and he is becoming familiar with the techniques and software the officers use to track down the predators.

This summer, he will fly to a secret location and be ''right in the thick of undercover, online investigations,'' according to Sheriff Mike Brown of Bedford, Va., who is working with O'Neal on the Internet Crimes Against Children task force, Operation Blue Thunder.

DEDICATED TO THE LAW

A Superman junkie often portrayed as a comic book character, O'Neal is seriously commited to law enforcement.

''I put a lot into it, and when I am done playing, I plan on going undercover and then being the sheriff or chief of police somewhere, either Miami or Orlando, I don't know yet,'' O'Neal said recently. ``Everyone knows the love I have for the people who defend the streets and the people who defend our country, the armed forces, the Army, Navy, Marines. I want to do something like that, help the community.

``And I want to do it the right way, like everybody else, not just a famous figurehead that gets a job because he is a famous basketball player. I want to really learn the business.''

He went through the police academy in Los Angeles as a full-fledged recruit and became a reserve officer with the L.A. Port Police. ''He insisted on being treated like everyone else,'' said Capt. Ronald Boyd. ``He did the push-ups, the homework, the exams, the tear gas chamber, participated in takedowns, drug busts, undercover work. It took some convincing for me, because you hear of celebrities being honorary captain for a day or whatever, but Shaquille is keenly serious about this. This is not a joke.''

During the 2000 offseason, he spent an evening riding along with the Orange County (Fla.) Sheriff's Auto Trap Unit. They recovered three stolen cars, made a handful of arrests and scared the bejesus out of some teens who were breaking into an elementary school. O'Neal, disguised in a ninja mask, crouched behind a school-yard Dumpster with officer Carlos Espinosa and took down the burglars.

'Can you imagine the look on those guys' faces when they saw a 7-foot-2 guy in a ninja mask coming their way?'' Espinosa recalled. ``You could tell in just a few hours with him that he is very knowledgeable about police work. He didn't just watch, he participated.''

ACTIVE IN POLICE WORK

Shortly after arriving in South Florida, O'Neal contacted the Miami Beach Police Department and inquired about becoming a reserve officer in his new hometown. He drops by the department regularly for one-on-one instruction, speaks to Chief De Lucca at least once a week, and is a few training hours shy of being certified to make arrests, conduct search warrants and carry an SIG Sauer .40-caliber pistol.

''Shaq's interest in police work is very real,'' said De Lucca. ``I've always said law enforcement is a calling, and I believe Shaquille has been called. He will have another successful chapter in his life after basketball, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it's in law enforcement. He'd be a great undercover guy. Obviously, we're not going to send him out to buy dope, but he can do surveillance, he can do Internet crimes. He has an incredible thirst for information, he's street-smart, and he's a communicator and leader. I just hope it's not my job he comes after, or I'm in trouble.''

Brown has been equally impressed with O'Neal's dedication to the profession. Two weeks ago, while in Washington, D.C., for the Heat-Wizards series, O'Neal spent two hours at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial, where there was a candlelight vigil for officers lost in the line of duty.

''To see him at that memorial was really something,'' said Brown. ``He has a genuine respect for law enforcement and made a big impression on a lot of the officers and widows who were there. I'm an old gruff guy, and I have to admit: I melt around the guy. His heart is in the right place.''

FAMILY INFLUENCE

O'Neal has been interested in law enforcement since he was a teenager. Raised by a stepfather who was an Army sergeant, O'Neal always looked up to men in uniform. He got the police bug from uncles Mike Parris and Jerome Crawford, both of whom worked in law enforcement. Parris is O'Neal's business manager, and Crawford is his bodyguard.

When two Los Angeles Police Department patrol cars were burned during celebrations for the 2000 Lakers NBA title, O'Neal wrote a personal check for $42,893 to replace one of the cars.

''Sgt. Dwyane Davis of the LAPD is the one who got Shaquille involved, and he's a very well-respected man, so when he came and asked me to give this guy a chance, I took it serious,'' Boyd said. ``Shaquille didn't want to be taken lightly. He wanted to be treated like every other recruit. He didn't go away. He kept showing up and calling. He really wanted to qualify. He took great pride in the fact that he did so well on his exam with no outside coaching. In fact, his score was so high the state examiner gave it a look just to make sure he had done the work.

'I've been in the force 25 years. I can pick who's made for this business, and I will tell you Shaquille is a natural. He's the new generation of police officer. He's very tech-savvy. He speaks the language. And he's aware of what's out on the street, so he's good at finding the bad guys. Shaquille always told me the police work was a good distraction for him. The average Angelino had no idea that during the Lakers' championship runs, Shaquille was sitting in a classroom learning undercover operations.''

When O'Neal found out there was a task force for Internet crimes against children, he called his police contacts and asked if he could be of help.

Sheriff Brown said O'Neal's leadership skills and image consciousness will serve him well in law enforcement.

When investigators were in Miami Beach a few weeks ago working on Internet cases with O'Neal, he took them out to dinner at Joe's Stone Crabs. The waitress informed the Heat star that a gentleman at another table wanted to send over a round of drinks.

''Tell him, `Thank you very much, but we're all role models at this table,'' O'Neal replied, according to Brown.' `So we won't be drinking.' ''

[TrackDaddy]

Who's the NBA's best player (and one of the greatest EVER)?

THE BIG FUNDAMENTAL

http://www.tustrucos.com/wallpapers/Deportes/deporte-Tim-Duncan/Timduncan0.jpg :cool:

[mzungu]

i have always been a big fan of tim duncan since wake forest. i don't think he's the best player in the league but he's always one of the best and probably the finest big man in the league in terms of teamwork and fourth quarter clutch performance. i also want to head off another press-created MVP. the press commentators and reporters have been talking about manu ginobili NON-STOP during this series, including the jamie foxx-narrated puff piece during halftime of game one. don't get me wrong. after the first half of game one, ginobili has been excellent. but during that game duncan had 24 points and 17 rebounds, a dominating performance throughout, while ginobili did nothing in the first half and scored only two or three more points than duncan without the rebounds or the great defense. in game two, ginobili had something like 27, but this did not dramatically outshine duncan's 18/11/4 blocks, and remember that ginobili gets free in part because they cannot leave duncan. of course, both ginobili and parker rarely pass once they are driving, but in any case, duncan is always a factor in their offense. the media's in love with ginobili and i'm afraid that they're going to give him the finals mvp if he doesn't tank the remaining games.

[exjersey1]

[QUOTE=mzungu]...... and remember that ginobili gets free in part because they cannot leave duncan. of course, both ginobili and parker rarely pass once they are driving, but in any case, duncan is always a factor in their offense......QUOTE]

You've given us both the chicken AND the egg here:

Duncan's man can't leave him to double on Ginobili, which is why he rarely dumps it off on a drive. And Ginobili's man can't leave him to double on Duncan, which helps Duncan when they dump it down low.

My only real issue with Ginobili's game is his constant tumbles to the floor.

[TrackDaddy]

Manu is a fine player but he did well resigning with the Spurs. If he left via free agency you couldn't build a team around what he does.

But THE BIG FUNDAMENTAL is basketball personified.http://www.hoopshype.com/players/tim_duncan.jpg

He does EVERYTHING well...especially making those around him better.

He's been All NBA first team in all 8 years. All NBA Defensive First team 6 times, 2nd team twice.

2 time MVP, 2 time Finals MVP, Rookie of the Year

Ultimately, he may be among the top five players of all time.

If not the top 2 or 3.

This year he will tie Shaq with 3 NBA titles.

Ultimately, he will surpass Shaq in terms of perception of career effectiveness.

He just turned 29 years old.

[Dyenimator]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/index.html?nav=page

[mzungu]

manu doesn't pass on the drives most of the time because he's a black hole type player, toss it in (on the drive) and it doesn't come out. dwyane wade, jason kidd, and tons of other guys will dish it on the drive.

[Dyenimator]

This is it.

Go 'Stones!

[jrun]

Tonight was a GREAT game.

If I had to play armchair point, I'd say the ball should have been given to Billups on every major possession and he should have been instructed--to use a phrase in today's lexicon-- "Do you."

[Wolverine318]

I agree. There is a reason billups is called mr. big shot. Unlike teyshaun and rip he has the ability and poise to create high percentage shots for himself. Why brown did not put the ball into his hands for the last shot, i will never know.

[exjersey1]

Why brown did not put the ball into his hands for the last shot, i will never know.

The Pistons tried to get him the ball. SA completely closed him off and denied possession off the inbounds play.

[TrackDaddy]

The REAL question is why didn't Brown guard Horry in that situation?

Think about that for a while and it makes less and less sense.

[exjersey1]

The REAL question is why didn't Brown guard Horry in that situation?

Think about that for a while and it makes less and less sense.


Yup.

Horry / Wallace (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8292215/)

[Dyenimator]

College football starts in 2.5 months... can't wait!

[TrackDaddy]

Yup.

Horry / Wallace (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8292215/)Nice article, Ex.

Sounds like Brown did his part but the players dropped the ball.

How can you double Manu in the corner and leave Horry all alone in that situation?

Rasheed was freelancing and not playing within the scheme.

[lasseviren]

this is just a test post to see if the powers that be (steveu) granted me access. i don't really care for basketball that much but follow whatever team shaq is on because of the LSU ties. for those that do not know, i run track (formerly xc, nearing the end of college eligibility all i have left is track) at LSU. i am with the poster that exclaimed "only 2.5 months to college football".

however, i would have liked to see a heat/suns matchup, i like the 4 letter names and the fact that the heat are one of few teams in any professional league that's not plural.

[fentonfreshman]

Welcome back Lasse.

Sheed showed up in the 4th. That was pretty sick.

[Dyenimator]

This series is going to make me a chain smoker. I can't stand to watch another game.

[exjersey1]

Billups' free throw shooting is just ridiculous.

Off the top of my head, I can't recall any playoff performance like it.

[TrackDaddy]

Manu is a fine player but he did well resigning with the Spurs. If he left via free agency you couldn't build a team around what he does.

But THE BIG FUNDAMENTAL is basketball personified.http://www.hoopshype.com/players/tim_duncan.jpg

He does EVERYTHING well...especially making those around him better.

He's been All NBA first team in all 8 years. All NBA Defensive First team 6 times, 2nd team twice.

2 time MVP, 2 time Finals MVP, Rookie of the Year

Ultimately, he may be among the top five players of all time.

If not the top 2 or 3.

This year he will tie Shaq with 3 NBA titles.

Ultimately, he will surpass Shaq in terms of perception of career effectiveness.

He just turned 29 years old.You can make an argument for Manu being this years finals MVP.

But you have consider the fact that he and the other Spurs benefitted from the hawking double, and sometimes triple team defense devoted to the Big Fundamental.

[fentonfreshman]

Robery Horry would have gotten the MVP if I was handing it out.

[exjersey1]

Robery Horry would have gotten the MVP if I was handing it out.


:)