NBA Playoffs

[Sweat]

Who do you think is gonna take it this year? Detroit? Miami? I say Houston (only because I live in Houston). State why you think so too.

My reason is because T-Mac can impose his will on a game, and with the atmosphere Yao will dominate.

[Filipe]

I think that if the Pistons can get their bench going again, they'll be tough to beat. We know how to beat Shaq and know how to beat Wade. I think that we can effectively slow down the game and take the high scoring teams out of it as well.

[BisonHurdler]

Sixers all the way.

[Jwaksman]

My predictions for seeds (mostly obvious, at this point):

East:
1) Miami
2) Detroit
3) Boston
4) Chicago
5) Washington
6) Indiana
7) New Jersey
8) Cleveland

West:
1) Phoenix
2) San Antonio
3) Seattle
4) Dallas
5) Sacramento
6) Houston
7) Denver
8) Memphis

Now, Playoff Predictions:


First round:
Miami over Cleveland
New Jersey over Detroit
Indiana over Boston
Chicago over Washington

Phoenix over Memphis
San Antonio over Denver
Houston over Seattle
Dallas over Sacramento

Second round:
Miami over Chicago
New Jersey over Indiana

Dallas over Phoenix
San Antonio over Houston

Conference Finals:
Miami over New Jersey
San Antonio over Dallas


Finals:
San Antonio over Miami, in 6 games

[UpstateRunner]

East:
1) Miami
2) Detroit
3) Boston
4) Chicago
5) Washington
6) Indiana
7) Philly
8) Cleveland

West:
1) Phoenix
2) San Antonio
3) Seattle
4) Dallas
5) Sacramento
6) Denver
7) Houston
8) Memphis

Now, Playoff Predictions:


First round:
Miami over Cleveland
Detroit over Philly
Boston over Indiana
Chicago over Washington

Phoenix over Memphis
San Antonio over Houston
Denver over Seattle
Sacramento over Dallas

Second round:
Miami over Chicago
Philly over Boston

Pheonix over Sacramento
Denver over San Antonio

Conference Finals:
Miami over Philly
Denver over Pheonix


Finals:
Miami over Denver, in 6 games

Im pulling for Denver... plus they've been hot

[Filipe]

Wait a minute...

You have Detroit over Philly in the first round, then Philly over Boston in the second round. :confused:

[sjm1368]

I'm just hoping the rockets go deep into the playoffs, or at least make it a decent first series.

[gesser]

I agree with Jwaksman...San Antonio over Miami. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Detroit in the Finals. So SA over DET is my second choice.

SA is like NYY of the late 90's. So much poise and a great coach. Miami is the toast of the east, but they seem susceptible. I don't like their style of play, and I think a mentally stronger team can break Wade down and make it Shaq-on-five...which would still cause a lot of problems for most teams.

Brent Barry seems to have found his role now, Nazr will continue to get acclimated, and Duncan will be Duncan come June.

[gesser]

As a homer pick, I would like to see the Celts make it to the Eastern finals somehow. I think they can do it and here's why: their bench. This team is unlike most eastern teams in that everyone on their bench can play. From Pierce to Justin Reed, I like the guys on the team. Until Antoine got hurt, they seemed to have found a nice in-between style of play. They knew when to push the ball and set up a half court O. Before Walker came back, it was out of control up tempo O and crappy half court plays.

I think Delonte West missing most of the first half of the season will help keep him fresh down the playoff run.

[Jwaksman]

The Celtics are just lucky the season is ending when it is. If it went one week longer they'd probably lose the division to the Nets, if not the 76ers. The Nets alone have made up 3 games in less than a week and, at 3 1/2 out and another game at Boston, still actually have a shot at the division. The Nets thrashed the Celts at the Meadowlands a few days ago.

[Sweat]

I really hope Houston goes deep in the playoffs because Yao needs that kind of experience.

[fentonfreshman]

East:
1) Miami
2) Detroit
3) Boston
4) Chicago
5) Indiana
6) Washington
7) Philly
8) New Jersey

West:
1) Phoenix
2) San Antonio
3) Seattle
4) Dallas
5) Sacramento
6) Houston
7) Denver
8) Memphis

Miami over Jersey in 5
Detroit over Philly in 6
Washington over Boston in 7
Chicago over Indy in 6(if curry is 100%, in 7 if not)

Phoenix over Memphis in 5
SA over Denver in 6, if TD isnt 100% this could be an upset
Houston over Seattle in 6
Dallas over Sactown in 5

Miami over Chicago in 5
Detroit over Washington in 5

Phoenix over Dallas in 6
SA over Houston in 5

Miami over Pistons in 6
SA over Phoenix in 4

Miami over SA in 7

[fentonfreshman]

As a homer pick, I would like to see the Celts make it to the Eastern finals somehow. I think they can do it and here's why: their bench. This team is unlike most eastern teams in that everyone on their bench can play. From Pierce to Justin Reed, I like the guys on the team. Until Antoine got hurt, they seemed to have found a nice in-between style of play. They knew when to push the ball and set up a half court O. Before Walker came back, it was out of control up tempo O and crappy half court plays.

I think Delonte West missing most of the first half of the season will help keep him fresh down the playoff run.

We've got Ben Gordon/Tyson Chandler off of the bench. We were even better off of it but Deng got hurt and now Nocioni got the starting spot.

[mzungu]

chicago's been playing extremely well, but without deng and curry they would be hurting in the playoffs. that lineup of nocioni, harrington, duhon, hinrich, and davis was brutal against the pistons. at least go with nocioni, chandler, gordon, hinrich, and maybe davis. but curry should be back for the playoffs and the way chandler has been playing, they will have a good shot to advance to the second round. this team has a tremendous future if they re-sign chandler and curry, because deng, chandler, gordon, hinrich, and curry are all going to get better.

denver has been incredible since karl took over and look at the current line of carmelo anthony after a 12-16 fg/32 point night in a victory over GS to clinch a playoff spot:
YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
2004-2005 70 70 34.6 7.0-16.4 .428 0.6-2.2 .276 5.8-7.4 .786 0.91 0.3 3.0 3.1 1.9 3.8 5.7 2.7 20.4

as I predicted, he is above 42% for the season now (.428) after shooting under forty prior to karl's appearance, he's over 20ppg and close to 6 boards and 3 assists per game. a tremendous player.

also, golden state, prior to last night's game, was making a terrific run at nothing, since they were already eliminated. they won 8 straight prior to a double ot loss against san antonio, and baron davis has been an absolute star in this time. he scored another 28 last night. mickeal pietrus of france has been very good in most of this run (not last night), and even dunleavy and adonal foyle have played well. that team next year should be in the playoffs easily, with richardson, davis, foyle, murphy, and dunleavy in the starting lineup and with pietrus and andris biedrins, this year's #1 pick for the warriors going to be an outstanding power forward for them, mark my words.

also, among the losers, atlanta's josh childress and josh smith (slam dunk champion) are really playing well and should be stars in the near future. last night the straight out of high school smith had 17 and 9, and childress, still 21, had 20 points and 14 rebounds. childress is averaging over 16 in april, over 14 in march, over 12 in february. both are high flyers. if you add andrew bogut to this team next year, plus a free agent point guard/power forward with their cap room, assuming anyone would agree to go there, and you could actually have a good team.

[Sweat]

denver has been incredible since karl took over and look at the current line of carmelo anthony after a 12-16 fg/32 point night in a victory over GS to clinch a playoff spot:
YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
2004-2005 70 70 34.6 7.0-16.4 .428 0.6-2.2 .276 5.8-7.4 .786 0.91 0.3 3.0 3.1 1.9 3.8 5.7 2.7 20.4

as I predicted, he is above 42% for the season now (.428) after shooting under forty prior to karl's appearance, he's over 20ppg and close to 6 boards and 3 assists per game. a tremendous player.

So good that ESPN ranked them #1 this week in the Power Rankings. I'm really impressed and I'm glad Houston does not have to face them in the first round.

[mzungu]

that's going way over the top, but they're good and they've done a lot of it without kenyon martin.

[FIRE CHIEF]

The Pistons are rounding into form, they just played an 85-84 OT game, that is Piston basketball at it's finest.

They will be unbeatable in the playoffs, with five long and lean athletes in the starting lineup and a coach who preaches defense and "playing the right way" how can anybody pick against the defending champs?

Rip Hamilton is the best mid range shooter in the NBA, Chauncy Billups is the most clutch player in the NBA, Ben Wallace is the best interior defender in the NBA, Tayshaun Prince is the best perimeter defender in the NBA and Rasheed is the best power forward in the NBA. No way a team with five all stars in the starting lineup should lose. The question isn't if they will win an NBA championship, it's if they will be challenged. They may not lose more than five playoff games.

[gesser]

Rip Hamilton is the best mid range shooter in the NBA, Chauncy Billups is the most clutch player in the NBA, Ben Wallace is the best interior defender in the NBA, Tayshaun Prince is the best perimeter defender in the NBA and Rasheed is the best power forward in the NBA. No way a team with five all stars in the starting lineup should lose. The question isn't if they will win an NBA championship, it's if they will be challenged. They may not lose more than five playoff games.

Rip Hamilton...Ray Allen, Peja, Eric Piatkowski
Chauncey Billups...Kobe, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher
Ben Wallace...Agreed
Tayshaun...Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Doug Christie
Rasheed Wallace...Kevin Garnett, Dirk, Duncan


While I think their chance to win the NBA Championship is as good as anyone else, I think you are grossly overrating your team. What makes them so good is their team D and heady play. Not because they are all super stars and because they use their star power to beat teams.

[Jwaksman]

The Pistons are rounding into form, they just played an 85-84 OT game, that is Piston basketball at it's finest.

They will be unbeatable in the playoffs, with five long and lean athletes in the starting lineup and a coach who preaches defense and "playing the right way" how can anybody pick against the defending champs?

Rip Hamilton is the best mid range shooter in the NBA, Chauncy Billups is the most clutch player in the NBA, Ben Wallace is the best interior defender in the NBA, Tayshaun Prince is the best perimeter defender in the NBA and Rasheed is the best power forward in the NBA. No way a team with five all stars in the starting lineup should lose. The question isn't if they will win an NBA championship, it's if they will be challenged. They may not lose more than five playoff games.




I think you need to chill out. I agree that the Pistons probably have the best chance to get out of the East, but you need to atleast by reasonable about it. Rasheed Wallace is the best power forward in the NBA??? Have you ever heard of Tim Duncan, or Kevin Garnett?

I'd say that the Heat, Celtics, Pacers, Bulls, and Nets could all give the Pistons a run for their money. And I think that the Spurs are definitely better than the Pistons, with the Suns, Nuggets, Mavs, and Rockets as arguably better teams as well.

[TrackDaddy]

The Mavericks will come of out the west.

Watch.

[FIRE CHIEF]

My post was supposed to be sarcastic, I probably shgouldn't have made it here because the Pistons fans I wanted to respond to it probably can't post in the Lounge.

I hate the Pistons as much as I hate any team in all of sports, I am just trying to get a Pistons fan to make a really bold claim on here so when they lose I can get on the fans.

I think there are three teams in the east that can beat Detroit, Miami of course, Shaq is good enough to beat anyone but their half court game is just what Detroit wants to see. Damon and Eddie Jones will need to hit their open 3's for Miami to win. New Jersey if they get in will pose a big threat, they were the closest to beating Detroit last year and with a healthy Kidd who knows how that series turns out. Detroit doesn't play well against teams that run, if you can beat their zone down the floor you'll score on them and New Jersey will. Washington also could be a tough matchup for them with all of the great athletes and shooters they have.

Boston, Cleveland, Chicago, Orlando, Indiana, Philadelphia or whomever else has no chance to beat Detroit.

In the west I am hoping for Phoenix because I think they are fun to watch and I think they have been sent by the basketball Gods to save the NBA. San Antonio is solid but losing homecourt could hurt, The Suns gave them trouble a few years ago in an opening round series and I think if they met this year it would go in the Suns' favor. Denver is the wildcard though, they are on a roll and it could send them deep into the western playoffs. Memphis is my deep sleeper, they are very deep and are finally getting healthy.

Seattle, Dallas, Houston and the QUEENS are pretenders.

[fentonfreshman]

I really dont see anything special in Detroit. They can whine all they want but they're only 2-2 against us and both of the games that we lost were without Eddy Curry. If we end up falling apart and getting the 6th seed I really think that we'll end up in the Eastern Confrence Finals.

[Filipe]

For the sole purpose of stirring up the pot:

http://home.comcast.net/~roadrunna/tay.gif

[FIRE CHIEF]

I am hoping the Wizards stay in 6th and get Boston then Detroit, I think they would make the East Finals in that case. I don't see the bulls matching up well with the Pistons, you won't beat Detroit in the half court.

If New Jersey moves into 7th watch out for an upset in round 1, they will also give Detroit trouble.

I don't see Miami losing to anybody in the east besides Detroit.

And Bill Walton and Brent Musberger are calling the Mavs/Sonics game, it doesn't get any better than that. Bill Walton has already claimed the Mavericks are playing their best basketball in franchise history, the Mavs have the best bench in NBA history and Seattle is the most overachieving team in NBA history.

[fentonfreshman]

Eddy Curry=out for the season, might be done forever. What a shame. I really hope that he can get well and get payed this summer because he's finally got "it" and now this happens.

[Sweat]

I would just like to say that in 1994-95 Houston set the record for the lowest seeded team to win a championship. They were seeded 6th in the West. I would also like to point out that they swept Orlando in the finals, who at the time had Shaq and the best record in the league.

I do realize that was 10 years ago, but it's going to happen again. :)

Gotta have faith.

The best video ever (http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/real/nba/nestle/nestle_041209_hi.smi&include=default_include.html'),escape('video') . Tracy Mcgrady does the impossible. 13 points in 35 seconds to win over the San Antonio Spurs.

[Dyenimator]

The Pistons are rounding into form, they just played an 85-84 OT game, that is Piston basketball at it's finest.

They will be unbeatable in the playoffs, with five long and lean athletes in the starting lineup and a coach who preaches defense and "playing the right way" how can anybody pick against the defending champs?

Rip Hamilton is the best mid range shooter in the NBA, Chauncy Billups is the most clutch player in the NBA, Ben Wallace is the best interior defender in the NBA, Tayshaun Prince is the best perimeter defender in the NBA and Rasheed is the best power forward in the NBA. No way a team with five all stars in the starting lineup should lose. The question isn't if they will win an NBA championship, it's if they will be challenged. They may not lose more than five playoff games.

My thoughts exactly. Thanks CHIEF, I really don't even have to write anything.

[FIRE CHIEF]

The Rockets won't win a series.

[exjersey1]

Interesting.......

No love at all for either Phoenix or Seattle, eh?

[FIRE CHIEF]

Interesting.......

No love at all for either Phoenix or Seattle, eh?

The way Seattle is limping in they don't deserve any love, although if they play Houston in round they win. If they play Denver they lose.

The Suns are my pick to win the west, I just am waiting until the seeding is final to make predictions.

[Brumund-Smith]

I'm going to say Phoenix versus Detroit in the NBA Finals. Of course, I also had Syracuse in the NCAA final this year, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about lately.

[Dyenimator]

As of now, I say Suns-Pistons.

[mzungu]

did you all see that dwyane wade went for 48/10/6 last night?!
now take last year's top rookies:
wade--24.5ppg/6.9 apg/5.2 rpg, 48%fg
lebron--26.9ppg/7.1 apg/7.2 rpg, 48%fg
carmelo--20ppg/2.7 apg/6 rpg, 43%
lebron will be one of only five players to score at least 24 points, and grab seven assists and seven rebounds per game. the others are oscar robertson, john havlicek, michael jordan, and larry bird.
and chris bosh is awfully good as well!

[Jwaksman]

Wade has been excellent this year, but I feel like he's always going to be overshadowed by Lebron. The Cavs haven't played well enough this year to earn Lebron an MVP, but he'll get atleast one of those down the road. As well as some championships if he could get any kind of decent teammates around him. He's single-handedly taken a team into the playoffs that probably would have 20 wins without him.


Wade will get on his share of All-Star teams. But I think Lebron is going down as one of the all-time greats.

[fentonfreshman]

Wade will be at Isiah's level while LeBron will be at Magic's level. Not saying that the players are anything alike, just that's how I see it going down. Both will be top 50 all timers.

[Jwaksman]

I don't think we can say that about Wade right now. He's having one good year, but he's also doing it while playing second fiddle to Shaq. Shaq will probably never play this good again: He's getting old, he's got a ton to prove in his first year away from Kobe, and he's in a contract year. Shaq probably won't play that many more years, period. Wade needs to show that he can carry the team in Shaq's absence, which he hasn't really done so far. He hasn't really gotten too much of an opportunity, really.

Yeah, he went for 48 points and almost a triple-double in his last game. But in the game before, in a possible Eastern Conference Finals Preview, the Pistons held him to 5 points on 1-6 shooting.

Lebron just doesn't have games like that. In the month of April, with the playoffs on the line, Lebron hasn't scored fewer than 20 points in a game. He's averaging 32 points, 10 rebounds, 7 assists and 2 1/2 steals per game - on 47% shooting.

[fentonfreshman]

Agreed. But after what I saw Wade do last year in the playoffs I think that he's a winner unlike Penny/Kobe.

[Jwaksman]

How is Kobe, who won three NBA titles, not a winner? There are a lot of things you can bash Kobe about - but his skills as a player (and, especially, as a clutch player) are not among them.

[exjersey1]

Must completely disagree on Bryant being remotely considered clutch.

Jordan was clutch, Bird was clutch, Magic Johnson was clutch, and as much as it pains me to type their names, Reggie Miller & Isaiah Thomas also clutch. Bryant does not have that extra gear (or whatever you want to call it) that elevates him above others when the game is on the line. Sure, he's hit a few buzzer-beaters and game-enders, but that's primarily because he never passes the freaking ball with under 4 minutes left in a game.

[Dyenimator]

2000 Finals Game 4. That's all I need to say.

[FIRE CHIEF]

Please don't say he isn't clutch, he is a jerk and I hate him real bad but he has hit so many big shots. He used to just kill the Spurs on those runs to the finals. Even in game 2 last year against Detroit he hit a bunch of big shots.

[exjersey1]

Sorry to have to disappoint you Chief, but Bryant is not clutch. Does he hit shots at times? Sure. But clutch can also mean making the crucial pass, and he's never ever done that and never will. A crucial steal, a la Bird or Havlicek. I could go on.

Iverson and Malone put up big point totals throughout their career, and neither one of them will ever be considered clutch; well maybe Iverson still has some time left to change that.

The fact that a guy hits his 11th field goal on his 37th attempt and it happens with no time left on the clock doesn't make him a clutch player.

A clutch player is a guy who somehow manages to do exactly what the team needs at the critical moment when all seems lost. Bryant does not match up with that; he's too selfish a player.

[MA Coach]

I agree with him being selfish. And don't get me wrong, I do NOT like Kobe Bryant. But. Most teams fear him having the ball at the end with the game on the line. He's no Reggie Miller, mind you, but he's a darn good shooter....or else the refs will call a foul for him to get him to the line to win the game....

[Jwaksman]

Sorry to have to disappoint you Chief, but Bryant is not clutch. Does he hit shots at times? Sure. But clutch can also mean making the crucial pass, and he's never ever done that and never will. A crucial steal, a la Bird or Havlicek. I could go on.

The fact that a guy hits his 11th field goal on his 37th attempt and it happens with no time left on the clock doesn't make him a clutch player.



He hasn't had a "Havlicek steals the ball moment"? Well, who else has? Who else in the league (other than Reggie Miller) is more clutch than Kobe? He doesn't shoot 11-37... for his career he is shooting 45.2%. That is above the league average, despite the fact that he often has to create his own shot and take on other teams 2- or 3-on-1.

Just because you don't like him as a person doesn't mean that you can dismiss his basketball skills as well.

[Sweat]

Who else in the league (other than Reggie Miller) is more clutch than Kobe?

To answer your question, Tracy McGrady is. I agree though, Kobe is clutch.

[fentonfreshman]

T-Mac is not clutch. Just because he had that amazing 35 seconds against SA doesnt mean he's he's clutch. Clutch is stealing the ball when you team needs in in the playoffs/finals (MJ in 98 against Malone, Reggie against the NYK, Havlicek stealing the ball in the finals to win it) or finding the open man when everybody thinks that you're going to be taking the shot (Jordan giving it to Kerr in the 97 finals to win the series).

I'd rather have Jason Kidd with the ball in his hands than Kobe because Kidd will find and give it to the open man or create his own shot, Kobe will chuck it up like he always does.

If Kobe was that great, the Lakers would not be 34-45 this year.

[Sweat]

Clutch is finding a way to win when the odds are stacked against you. Clutch is not just narrowed down to a play someone did years ago.

When the game is on the line, there is no one else I would rather have the ball than T-Mac (besides Jordan when he played). Reggie and Kobe would be my next choices.

[Dyenimator]

Who else in the league (other than Reggie Miller) is more clutch than Kobe?

"Mr. Big Shot" Chauncey Billups

[exjersey1]

Just because you don't like him as a person doesn't mean that you can dismiss his basketball skills as well.

Not dismissing his basketball skills, but he simply isn't "clutch." Clutch guys are Miller, Thomas, Bird, Jordan, Johnson, or to go back a bit further, West, Frazier, KC Jones, etc. Even Robert Horry was clutch. Bryant is an outstanding offensive force, but he is not in the game-on-the-line class of any of the guys I've mentioned. In fact, the cliche of "he makes his teammates better" could be used for everyone of the above names except for Bryant. The Bulls absolutely knew that Jordan would make the shot when they needed it; all the Lakers know with absolute certainty is that Bryant will take it.

Think about it in a football vein: Marino & Fouts put up awesome numbers, but if you got the ball back with a minute-and-a-half left and needing a TD to win, would you want either of those guys, or would you take Montana or Elway?

[Jwaksman]

You guys keep naming Havlicek, Jordan, and Bird. Sorry to report, but none of those guys still play. After Reggie Miller, who else who is currently playing is in that stratosphere? Some of you can name one person who, in your opinion, is more clutch than Kobe. But I think the concensus would be that Kobe is right at the top. In games that he has played (he has missed a lot of time) the Lakers have won more games than the Cavs have with Lebron. And Kobe's surrounding cast isn't really much better than what Lebron is working with. I think the job Kobe did this year to keep his team in contention is pretty impressive. If he was healthy all year they'd be in the playoffs.


Now, I too would rather have Jason Kidd on my team for a whole game. I think Jason Kidd is, without a doubt, one of the five most valuable players in the league. He is the epitome of a pure point guard who makes everyone around him better. But Kidd doesn't win games by hitting last second shots. He'll sometimes go games with 4 or 6 points. He wins games by controlling them the whole way through, and running the offense. When he only get 6 points it's probably because he had 14 assists.

I'd say that the most valuable players (as in, most indispensible to their teams) are:

1) Lebron
2) Shaq
3) Garnett
4) Kidd
5) Kobe
Honorable Mention: Duncan, Kirilenko


That doesn't mean that Lebron is the best player in the league. For example, Steve Nash is having a great season and is probably one of the 5 best players this year. But his team still does very well when he's not playing. That means he's not as indispensible as someone like Lebron or Kidd.

[FIRE CHIEF]

I understand what your definition of a clutch player is and I think Kobe fits the bill. It's like you don't remember the Lakers winning three championships in a row, he has huge games throughout those playoffs and hit a ton of big shots. He used to just kill the Spurs and Kings and Trailblazers year after year in the Western playoffs. I hate him a sa person but you can't deny he is a great and clutch player. I won't even blame him for the loss to Detroit last year, 3 through 10 Detroit was so much better than LA that it was almost laughable, the Lakers had Brian Cook and Brian Russell coming off the bench and playing significant minutes. That was the Lakers problem more than Kobe hogging the ball.

[MA Coach]

Well, Kobe is good, but any good player looks great with Shaq playing with them...AKA, Penny Hardaway.

[Dyenimator]

Remember the 4th quarter against the Blazers. If you say that's not clutch, you're out of your mind.

[fentonfreshman]

There's more to being clutch than scoring. He's a clutch scorer, sure, but he's not a clutch rebounder, lock-down defender, shot blocker or passer. He can score in the 4th but he does not take the whole game over like the greats do. LeBron does and he's only 20 years old. Jason Kidd does and he's 6'4" and slower than he once was because of his bum leg. Kobe does all that he can do to score in the clutch but you never see him come up with a huge steal, block or pass when it matters. He will never win another championship.

[rippev]

Suns over Heat in 6.

[makelldog]

What is amazing is that the Wolves still have a shot of making it to the Playoffs...I realize it is hard but the Magic number is only 5 now after having started at 10 after the ludicrous Atlanta loss. I am going to the Sonics game tomorrow, it should be sweet.

[Sweat]

What is amazing is that the Wolves still have a shot of making it to the Playoffs...I realize it is hard but the Magic number is only 5 now after having started at 10 after the ludicrous Atlanta loss. I am going to the Sonics game tomorrow, it should be sweet.

Not anymore. Sorry

[NJ5k]

I think and hope NJ will pull it off and make the 7 or 8 spot, especially tonight now that the Cavs have lost and the Nets are up big in the 4th. What they can do in the playoffs remains to be seen but I believe they will win at least one series (as long as they don't play the Heat). As for the rest of the league, I say Suns/Heat in the finals, with the Heat winning in 6.

[mzungu]

i think this guy's going to be very good, andris biedrins, gs's 1st round pick this year. he just turned 19 and had 11/8 last game. these are his numbers per 48 minutes.
YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
2004-2005 28 1 12.5 5.8-10.2 .568 0.0-0.1 .000 2.6-5.2 .500 1.65 2.9 1.5 10.7 5.6 8.3 13.9 1.7 14.2

[Jwaksman]

You can manipulate stats to say anything... Biedrins has only scored 103 points all year. To suggest that he can score 13 points a game because he's scored 3.7 points a game in 12.5 minutes of playing time is a huge stretch. He hasn't even scored 5 points per game for an entire month in his entire career. In fact, he's only scored 10 or more points in a game on one occasion in his entire career.


By the same logic I can argue that this 19 year old has a huge future ahead of him (career stats per 48 minutes played):

12.2 points, 10.6 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 3.8 blocks, and 1.1 steals.


Guess who that is............



Darko Milicic.

[Dyenimator]

Dude, Darko is averaging 18 & 8 for me in my ESPN NBA 2k5 team. That has to count for something.

[mzungu]

darko's never had a single positive result. he plays much less than biedrins, and biedrins shoots 58%. another way of putting it is that all of biedrins' results have been positive, whereas most of darko's results have been negative. you go on the basis of the evidence you have when there isn't too much. that's how you get ahead of the curve. no, it's not absolutely accurate, but it is the best you can do. this is how you anticipate stardom by years. it's a lot more accurate than looking at nothing and speculating.

but that claim was bad even by your standards, because 1) biedrins plays more often and more than twice as much per game, and 2) darko's actual 48 minute stats are worse than the ones you presented. the real 48 minute numbers are darko at 10.4/8.7 vs. Biedrins at 13.9/14.4 rpg, and darko shoots 28.1% vs. Biedrins at 57.9%. Darko plays just 5.5 minutes per game, and usually doesn't play at all, whereas Biedrins has played virtually every game he's been healthy for since returning from injury and he plays more than double as much as I said.
Darko Milicic Actual Stats (NOTICE THE .281 FG PERCENTAGE!!!!!!!!!)
SEASON STATS: PER GAME | TOTAL | PER 48 MINUTES REBOUNDS
YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
2004-2005 35 0 5.5 0.5-1.6 .281 0.0-0.0 .000 0.3-0.4 .714 0.03 0.4 0.4 0.7 0.1 0.9 1.0 0.1 1.2
DARKO MILICIC STATS PER 48 minutes (10.4pt/8.7 reb):
SEASON STATS: PER GAME | TOTAL | PER 48 MINUTES REBOUNDS
YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
2004-2005 35 0 5.5 4.0-14.1 .281 0.0-0.0 .000 2.5-3.5 .714 0.25 3.2 3.7 6.2 0.7 7.9 8.7 1.0 10.4
Biedrins Actual: (58%fg)
YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
2004-2005 29 1 12.8 1.5-2.6 .579 0.0-0.0 .000 0.7-1.4 .475 0.41 0.8 0.4 2.9 1.5 2.3 3.8 0.4 3.7
Biedrins 48 minute (13.9 pts/14.4 rebounds, much better than darko in totals and fg percentages (he plays 12+ minutes per game)--he was injured but plays every game while healthy)
YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
2004-2005 29 1 12.8 5.7-9.9 .579 0.0-0.1 .000 2.5-5.2 .475 1.56 3.0 1.4 10.8 5.7 8.7 14.4 1.6 13.9

[Dyenimator]

If I could beat Darko one on one, he must be bad.

But seriously, watching him play, do you think he could have held off Sean May had he played for Illinois? NO! Then why was he the #2 pick? At least the Pistons won the title last year, or else I'd have to find out where that guy lives.

[Jwaksman]

mzungu... even on non-political threads you don't read what I type. I said: "career stats per 48 minutes played". For Darko, that is 12.2 points/10.6 rebounds, etc.


Now, you can argue that Biedrins has played 13 minutes per game this season compared to Darko's 6 minutes per game.


However, one can also argue that Biedrins has barely played at all this year. He has missed nearly 2/3 of his team's games. In his career he has played nearly exactly as many minutes (370) as Darko has (353). In other words, their sample sizes are pretty much equal.


If there was some player who only played the last 5 minutes of games for free throw purposes, and scored 5 points a game, you wouldn't take me seriously if I argued that he would score 48 points per game if they let him play the whole time.


So, by that same logic, Biedrins is right now scoring 3.7 points per game. Get back to me when he has some meaningful stats for a meaningful period of time...

[cnick]

Anybody else love that playoffs commercial with the Heat?

I get a good laugh out of watching Shaq and his boys jumping around to that goofy song.

[mzungu]

biedrins plays more than twice as much as milicic. biedrins is a rookie, darko in his second year. biedrins shoots 58% to milicic's 28%. what's to argue about? when you play more than twice as much and play outside of garbage time, like biedrins, and put up outstanding rebounding numbers (14.4 per 48), you're showing major potential. but it's fine with me that you dispute this, because biedrins will prove his quality next year. this is why i'm right time and again over the years about young basketball players. when you're talking about per game averages, the number of games they've played or their total minutes are irrelevant, obviously. when we're talking about their total minutes and dividing everything by 48, then we get same sample size, much better numbers. and the key issues to me for a pf with these minutes are whether they can rebound (and biedrins at 14.4 per 48) and whether they can get their shot off and accurately (biedrins at 58% vs. 28%). why you'd give me darko's career numbers rather than this year is beyond me. darko's numbers this year are even worse than last year and no comparison with biedrins (darko's at 8.7 rebounds per 48 minutes). let's face it: the available data shows biedrins to be by far the better prospect.

[Jwaksman]

Yes, Biedrins has played more than Darko, so his stats are a little more legitimate (and I'm not trying to argue that Darko is the better prospect), but they're still not very legitimate. It's absurd to extrapolate 48 minute numbers from someone playing 6 minutes per game (like Darko), but it's only a little less absurd to extrapolate up from 13 minutes a game, in only 29 games played.


Biedrins may have 14.4 rebounds per 48 minutes, but he only has 4.4 per game. All that matters are per-game numbers, and assuming that someone will continue putting up numbers at the same rate when they're playing four times as many minutes is just way too big of an assumption.

Take Dwight Howard, the first pick in the draft this past year. He is averaging 14.9 rebounds per 48 minutes, but he's also doing that while playing 33 minutes a game. He's averaging 10.1 rebounds per game, period. He is averaging a double-double for the year. That is proof that Howard is going to be a great player.

Biedrins could turn out to be a good player, but there just is no real statistical evidence to back up that theory right now.

[Sebrle]

An interesting "clutch" breakdown

http://www.82games.com/clutchplay3.htm

[Dyenimator]

Stats, stats, stats. If you even watch games, you know Biedrins is better than Darko at this point. Just looking at the box score doesn't tell the whole story.

[jrun]

Kobe is clutch.

And I'm liking Tayshaun Prince the more I see his game. Easily top-5 player in the NBA......

(joke).

[fentonfreshman]

All that I know is that Ben Gordon is C-L-U-T-C-H.

[fentonfreshman]

31 min, 16 pts, 5 reb, 3 blocks, 2 assists, and 1 turnover.

[Dyenimator]

Kobe is clutch.

And I'm liking Tayshaun Prince the more I see his game. Easily top-5 player in the NBA......

(joke).

He's one of the top 10 small forwards, no doubt about that. Not bad for the 22nd(?) pick.

[jrun]

He's one of the top 10 small forwards, no doubt about that. Not bad for the 22nd(?) pick.


Right. Very solid. One of those guys in the the Pippen mold. Won't complain much. Won't say much. Just will go out there and do his job.

My first post was just a joke on 'pacershater' awhile back stating that Prince was a top-15(?) player. Not even hometown goggles could make me think that.

[jersey_guy]

Hahah Nets win again! They just need to clean up against Boston tomorrow and they're in.

[mzungu]

a rough statistical estimate without having the formulas present to me is that biedrins with a total rebound deviation of 82 from his avg. of 4/game over 30 games, gets you 68% probability that his full-time average would be between 8.7 and 20/48 minutes. i may have misremembered the standard deviation formula here, but in any case, biedrins had several double figure rebound games recently and has been first or second off the bench. he just turned 19 and at the moment, it is reasonable (point sample average is best estimate of population average, according to triola) to assume he'll shoot a high percentage from the field, be a very good rebounder, and it's not clear whether he'll get up enough shots to be a good scorer. he may, he may not--he's young and may develop that.

great job from new jersey to come back from a 4-12 start without kidd and to get into the playoffs on the last day with a second half rally against a playoff team. i'm sorry not to see lebron (27/7/7) in the playoffs, but it'll be fun to see kidd and carter against wade and o'neal. in fact, the nets radio announcers were saying richard jefferson would be back in the lineup, which would make this much more interesting.

[Jwaksman]

Biedrins has been getting a little more playing time recently, but (as expected) his per/48 minute numbers are getting worse. During the month of April he averaged a shade under 4 points and 6 boards per game in a little over 15 minutes per game, which is decent. But one thing that I'm sure is worrying his coaches is that he seems to have major foul problems. For example, look at this line:

April 10, 2005, vs. San Antonio:

7 minutes, 0-0 shooting, 0 points, 3 rebounds, 4 fouls.


Throughout this entire season he has been averaging 3 fouls per game, despite his very limited playing time. In 9 of the 11 games he played in April he was called for 4 fouls or more, despite only playing (as I said) 15.2 minutes per game.


Throughout this entire season he is averaging 2.9 fouls per game in 12.8 minutes per game. Breaking down the per/48 minute averages gives us this:


13.6 points, 14.8 rebounds, 3.0 blocks, 1.5 assists, 10.9 fouls


So, the 14 points, 15 boards looks great. Unfortunately, you aren't allowed to get 11 fouls called on you....

[Jwaksman]

Also, I'm officially rooting for the Nets now. Being from New York I'm a Knicks fan first. But those tickets always used to be so hard to get, so I'd end up going to Nets games. They'd practically give away tickets. I remember we used to go to McDonald's nights, where you'd get 4 decent tickets, a disposable camera, and coupons for 4 free McDonalds value meals for like $80.

Anyway, I always had the "I'll root for the Nets as long as they're not playing the Knicks" philosophy. But this year I've really gotten pissed off at Isiah Thomas, who is without a doubt the worst General Manager in any major sport. Every single decision he has made has made the team worse in the short run, worse in the long run, and at huge cost.

Meanwhile, the Nets play wonderful basketball. Jason Kidd is my favorite player - he's the epitome of a pure point guard who makes everyone around him better. Vince Carter gets the highlights, but that offense revolves around J Kidd.

I don't think anyone should count them out against the Heat. There's no question that Miami would have preferred to play Philly or the Cavs.

[fentonfreshman]

Jersey is the scariest 1st round opponent for the Heat. They're not going to win but they're going to push the Heat and one bad play by Shaq and it could get interesting.

[Dyenimator]

Shaq vs. Nenad Krstic

I can't wait!!

[mzungu]

biedrins does commit a lot of fouls, but i assume that he'll be able to overcome that as he gets older and also starts to get the benefit of the doubt more often from the refs.

[Brumund-Smith]

The Bill Simmons article on the NBA playoffs today was pretty key.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/050422

[Sweat]

After reading the first few matchups I stopped. This guy obviously has no idea what he is talking about. In my opinion of course.

[Jwaksman]

You mean that you don't like how he doesn't like Houston because they're soft?


For all of his humor, Bill Simmons actually knows a ton about basketball, which you would know if you read his articles regularly. What exactly did you find wrong with this one?

[Sweat]

You mean that you don't like how he doesn't like Houston because they're soft?

Exactly.

[SteveU]

Well, now we can talk about what IS happening instead of predicting, right? (not that I've even contributed to this thread yet, despite my NBA interests!)

I was worried about my Pistons ... for a little while ... until they destroyed the Sixers final three quarters. Sheed went nuts in the third quarter and I just couldn't believe a few of the Philly guys (Jackson comes to mind) who went straight at Big Ben. They deserved to have one of his seven blocks back in their faces.

Dallas and Indiana didn't exactly show much fight, did they? What horrible game ones for those two teams.

And Miller's playing for the Kings tonight!?! I thought he was out for the year!

[idontgetit14]

I'm looking for the Bulls to beat the Wizards in 5 games. They'll definantely win tonight. But with all the injuries that the bulls have, they'll just get crushed in the second round against Miami. But anyways, GO BULLS!!

[fentonfreshman]

The only reason why the Bulls will win today: They're wearing the black shoes again.

[jrun]

Close game right now in 4th qtr.

When Duhon works on knocking down the open three, he'll open up the offense for da Bulls.

[fentonfreshman]

Ben Gordon is such a stud but Andres Nocioni is my hero.

[Dyenimator]

Nice to see that your hero is a dirty player.

;)

[HurdlinDuck110]

the Celts beat the Pacers. hurrayy! now onto game 2...

[SteveU]

Wow ... another interesting day.

Ya, the Bulls ruled. Gordon and Nocioni ... wow ... and Arenas 3 for 19.

Wade and Jones destroyed Jersey. When I saw that score, I thought, "Damn, I can't believe the Heat have EVER scored that much in a playoff game (remembering the Riley days)." Sure enough, all-time team playoff record.

The Spurs lose at home! Andre Miller 31 points. Parker needed to have a bigger game with TD not 100 percent.

Though Amare only had 9, Marion and the rest whipped Memphis.

[Sweat]

I'm really looking forward to tonights games.

Houston @ Dallas and Indiana @ Boston

[Dyenimator]

I'm going with Dallas 97-90 and Boston 102-95.

[fentonfreshman]

Nice to see that your hero is a dirty player.

;)
I hear Gilbert Arenas is going to call Chris Duhon a dirty player after he shut him down last night. El Chapu is less dirty than Big Ben.

[Dyenimator]

How is Big Ben dirty? He doesn't take cheap shots, so explain how.

[fentonfreshman]

Well Ben started a riot. All Andres did was accidently clip Prince with an elbow and shove D. Wade after Wade shoved him.

[Dyenimator]

Artest started it by viciously fouling Ben on a meaningless dunk while the Pacers were up 15. Don't give me any of that BS.

[fentonfreshman]

Against Prince he was trying to get open and with the Wade incident Wade pump faked, Noce landed on him (cant do anything about that in mid air), Wade tried throwind Noce down, Noce shoves him down and Haslem shoves Noce.

Calling him a dirty player is a joke. Look at where you're from and where they got their first 2 championships from.

[mzungu]

he's a dirty player, face it. physical, aggressive, but also out of control a lot, and uses his elbows. nevertheless, that was a great game from him in game one (23 and 15). also, ben gordon (from now on the g is pronounced 'dj') still inexplicably off the bench was amazing with 30, including 14 in the fourth.

[fentonfreshman]

He's not out there elbowing tons of people. Why in the hell would he elbow Prince in a big game in overtime when we were leading? It was an accident. He plays with heart, passion, and emotion. Sure, he's physical but that's a good thing because nobody plays like he does in today's game.

[jrun]

fentonfreshman, remember....we all know that you are a homer.

[fentonfreshman]

Haha, I know that but I know what a dirty player is. Danny Fortson is a dirty player. Dennis Rodman was a dirty player.

Toughness and hustle does not make a not dirty player.

[jrun]

Haha, I know that but I know what a dirty player is. Danny Fortson is a dirty player. Dennis Rodman was a dirty player.

Toughness and hustle does not make a not dirty player.


Yea...just kidding with you man.

I hope YOOOUURRR CHICAGO BULLLLLLLLLLS (apologies to Ray Clay) go far in the playoffs...fun team to watch.

[Dyenimator]

Well, I just got back from Game 2. Somehow, my dad ended up getting tickets in the 12th row. I guess that was payback for the Opening Day tickets. I guess I'll have to trump him by getting All Star game tickets.

I'd just like to say, AI is the quickest player I've ever seen. NBA players look sort of fast on TV, but when you're right up near them, you can really tell how speedy they are.

"DMC ain't no punk" - Sheed

[HurdlinDuck110]

just a note... Sonics are up by 20+ right now on the Kings. Kings look so sloppy right now. time to go back to watching it.

[Sebrle]

Sonics 2-0. Allen 27 ppg (Ahh the Mason Payton trade), Jerome James 12 reb 3 bpg! 2nd round might be the hated Nuggets (1994 season Sonics were 63-19, guess who they lost to in the 1st round :( )

On a side note, how the heck do you beat Miami when Zo and Shaq are both playing well, thats 14 feet 600 pounds of inside game!

[Sweat]

It's only been two games but these playoffs are exciting to watch. So many more games to go!

[SteveU]

Memphis gave Phoenix a battle tonight, but the Suns finally prevailed, mostly at the line.

I was hoping to be able to say "Ah, San Antonio's not that great anymore," but then they anesthisize Denver tonight. Arg.

[idontgetit14]

He's not out there elbowing tons of people. Why in the hell would he elbow Prince in a big game in overtime when we were leading? It was an accident. He plays with heart, passion, and emotion. Sure, he's physical but that's a good thing because nobody plays like he does in today's game.


i love his physicallness. Finally someone playing basketball rough. He reminds me of Dennis (the worm) Rodman. I hope Noc. gets more physicall. He's a great player.

[fentonfreshman]

Looks like the Nuggets just woke up the Spurs, that's going to be an interesting series.

NJ is playing Miami tough tonight, Kristic is outplaying Shaq which will never happen again. :eek: I'm hoping the Nets can take this one.

Phoenix=Colts. I wish it was not true, but the Suns are not going anywhere this year.

My Bulls just keep on getting birthday presents from Washington. My prediction is that Tyson Chandler has a huge game on saturday.

[fentonfreshman]

Too bad NJ couldnt pull it out today. :(

[Jwaksman]

How much do you think Stan Van Gundy paid Dick Bavetta tonight? Shaq should have fouled out 6 times, it was unreal. That play like halfway through overtime where he threw about 4 elbows into Krstic's face, while Krstic stood still, and then Shaq just jumped right over him and somehow they called the foul on Krstic???? I was getting so mad.


The fact that Miami had home referees and the Nets shot like 2-45 from 3-point land, and the Nets still took it to double overtime is pretty impressive. The Nets clearly looked better. Their offense flowed while I don't think I saw a single Heat player cut across the floor to get open the whole time...

[Sweat]

The Rocketss/Mavs series is messed up. Apparently they both can't win at home against each other.

[mzungu]

san antonio is going to be very very tough to beat, because even if ginobili and parker are both inconsistent, this team manages to win. chicago got skunked in washington as ben gordon went 1-13 while sick and juan dixon validated my confidence in him scoring 35 points in a 7 pt. chicago loss, which would give you hope as a bulls fan, since those two things won't happen again. but as exceptional as those two events were, larry hughes also shot 3-16 and i doubt that is going to happen again. chicago goes back home and i sure wish they had deng and curry, because right now they are struggling offensively against a team with three big-time scorers and contributors like dixon and etan thomas. miami was just a much better than the nets, so no crying about the officials. the nets don't have a shotblocker and they don't have a real power forward, so they have got to address those things in free agency or the draft. i expect that rod thorn will be able to get someone. for free agency, they're over the cap, but have a $4.9 M exception and a mid-range exception of about $4.5 million. unfortunately, they can't combine those two, but they could conceivably get an overlooked, promising player, or a good rookie by trading future draft picks, if they have any left.

[fentonfreshman]

Channing Frye would be a good fit for NJ.

We really miss Eddy/Loul. If we had Deng to guard Twan, we would be in great shape. This series is going to 7 and I would not be suprised to see a fight. Let's hope that Duhon's minutes get cut so we can see Ben Gordon off of his leash. If he's hot in just one of these games, we're going to take the series.

[MoMo]

Anybody in the market for a buff, likeable 7-footer who drives his coaches nuts?

Kwame Brown's on the market.

[fentonfreshman]

SWEAR WORD. I love the Bulls but that was heartbreaking. I'm glad I cant watch the game friday (county meet). That was bad.

[jrun]

Anybody in the market for a buff, likeable 7-footer who drives his coaches nuts?

Kwame Brown's on the market.

Thanks, but no thanks!

Here's a guy who ate Popeye's Fried Chicken for every meal as a rookie because he didn't know how to grocery shop.

[Sebrle]

Thanks, but no thanks!

Here's a guy who ate Popeye's Fried Chicken for every meal as a rookie because he didn't know how to grocery shop.

I hope he does not become the next Shawn Kemp (unmarried, 7 kids 6 women, recently arrested on cocaine/gun charges),

I hope...

[Dyenimator]

Wow, that's a bad joke waiting to happen...

[mzungu]

would new jersey be interested in kwame brown? he would come cheap possibly unless there are various teams willing to throw $30-40 million in a long-term contract for a guy who had a 30-19 game in 2004, but also gave up on his team and underachieved for his whole rookie contract. nj might take a chance, since they tried to bring eddie griffin back in, before he became successful at minnesota. hughes was strong for washington even as dixon scored 29 fewer points, making up for gordon's 27 for chicago.

[Sweat]

I hear Jason Kidd is looking for a new team.

http://www.clutchfans.com/news.cfm?NewsID=1199

[Jwaksman]

Kidd has stated this year that he is going to give the team a chance to compete, and he will not demand a trade. That article isn't saying that Kidd is asking to go to Houston, it's saying that some analyst thinks that would be a good fit.

And, maybe it would be. But there are a few important issues:


1) Does Kidd want to move his whole family across the country? He probably would, but it's something to consider.

2) Do the Rockets want to take on his massive contract, which includes him making $21.4 Million in four years from now, when he'll be 36?

3) Do the Rockets have something very good to give back? New Jersey has Kidd locked up, and are only going to trade him if they get something very good in value back.


The Nets are trying to move to Brooklyn in the next few years, and the new owner has said that he is very committed to having a winning program now and for the next few years. He has said that it's very unlikely that the nucleus of Kidd, Carter and Jefferson will get broken up this offseason.

I think that Nenad Krstic is developing into an excellent 4th starter. They just need one more decent player. And I don't think that's going to be a big center. The team likes to run 'n gun, and big centers simply don't fit. Remember, Mutombo and Mourning were both largely ineffective for the Nets. I think they should look towards a larger player who can also move down the floor. You want someone who can rebound and clog the middle on defense, but not someone who clogs the middle on offense.

[Sweat]

Kidd has stated this year that he is going to give the team a chance to compete, and he will not demand a trade. That article isn't saying that Kidd is asking to go to Houston, it's saying that some analyst thinks that would be a good fit.

And, maybe it would be. But there are a few important issues:


1) Does Kidd want to move his whole family across the country? He probably would, but it's something to consider.

2) Do the Rockets want to take on his massive contract, which includes him making $21.4 Million in four years from now, when he'll be 36?

3) Do the Rockets have something very good to give back? New Jersey has Kidd locked up, and are only going to trade him if they get something very good in value back.


The Nets are trying to move to Brooklyn in the next few years, and the new owner has said that he is very committed to having a winning program now and for the next few years. He has said that it's very unlikely that the nucleus of Kidd, Carter and Jefferson will get broken up this offseason.

I think that Nenad Krstic is developing into an excellent 4th starter. They just need one more decent player. And I don't think that's going to be a big center. The team likes to run 'n gun, and big centers simply don't fit. Remember, Mutombo and Mourning were both largely ineffective for the Nets. I think they should look towards a larger player who can also move down the floor. You want someone who can rebound and clog the middle on defense, but not someone who clogs the middle on offense.

I didnt say he was going to, just saying it seems like he wants to move. I saw an interview with him and he doesnt look to hapy with NJ and he is nearing the end of his career. And I just threw that link out there for discussion sake. You're right though. I don't think Houston has the money for Kidd.

1.) When players get traded they usually don't move the family or buy a house unless they plan to spend their career there.

2.) They could comprimise, but very doubtful. We have enough old people on the team already anyways.

3.) The Rockets have McGrady and Yao to give back.


I think he would be good for Houston, but I would hate to trade one of our PG's. Sura is just plain tough and is a pure PG. Mike James dribbles too much (which is why we got rid of Steve Francis) but he makes shots, he'll come around with time.

You're correct though, Kidd will probably stick with NJ.

[Cocca]

I'm posting this as overtime starts for game 6 in the celtics pacers series. One thing I have to say right now whether the celts win or lose. "Get rid of Paul Pierce" I cannot belive he would elbow a guy like that when up by 1 point with about 20 seconds left. This is seriously one of the most boneheaded plays I have seen in a while. The team captain should act better than that.
Edit: And another thing, that elbow got him thrown out of the game :(

[mzungu]

all-rookie teams are in:
first team: okafor (#2 pick), gordon (#3 pick), howard (#1 pick)--all unanimous; luol deng (#7 pick), andre iguodala (#9 pick)
second team: nenad krstic (#23 or 24 the previous year?), jameer nelson (picked in the teens?), josh smith (#17??), josh childress (#6?), and al jefferson (in the 20s?).

just for comparison's sake, since rookie performances are very strongly affected by playing time, here are the rough forty-eight minute numbers for some of these guys:
gordon--29.6 ppg (to be fair, he did shoot only 41% fg, while also shooting 40.5% 3pt and 86% ft)
smith and childress--16ppg/10rpg
al jefferson--21.7 ppg/14.7 rpg (i love this guy's potential, straight out of high school, performed very well this season, shot 52%, very good point and rebound per minute, just had 11/14 in the playoffs, and very good size at 6'10" 265, plus a shotblocker)
kristic-18/10
howard--18/17

[jrun]

The team likes to run 'n gun, and big centers simply don't fit. Remember, Mutombo and Mourning were both largely ineffective for the Nets. I think they should look towards a larger player who can also move down the floor. You want someone who can rebound and clog the middle on defense, but not someone who clogs the middle on offense.

They had that big man in Kenyon Martin, but alas...free agency in today's world is a beast.

[mzungu]

kmart is a running power forward, so he fit in very well.

[jrun]

Bulls self-implode; Wizards to meet Shaq in Round Two; Bulls and Wizards have fishing trips planned together in two weeks.

[Dyenimator]

all-rookie teams are in:
first team: okafor (#2 pick), gordon (#3 pick), howard (#1 pick)--all unanimous; luol deng (#7 pick), andre iguodala (#9 pick)
second team: nenad krstic (#23 or 24 the previous year?), jameer nelson (picked in the teens?), josh smith (#17??), josh childress (#6?), and al jefferson (in the 20s?).

just for comparison's sake, since rookie performances are very strongly affected by playing time, here are the rough forty-eight minute numbers for some of these guys:
gordon--29.6 ppg (to be fair, he did shoot only 41% fg, while also shooting 40.5% 3pt and 86% ft)
smith and childress--16ppg/10rpg
al jefferson--21.7 ppg/14.7 rpg (i love this guy's potential, straight out of high school, performed very well this season, shot 52%, very good point and rebound per minute, just had 11/14 in the playoffs, and very good size at 6'10" 265, plus a shotblocker)
kristic-18/10
howard--18/17


Starters usually play only 35-40 minutes anyway, so 48 minute averages aren't very helpful if you're looking for potential stats down the road.

[MoMo]

the wizards' win over the bulls was so ugly, i can't believe they actually pulled it off.

arenas was shooting horribly (6-for-24, i think); and a lot of the misses were airballs or close to it. haywood (i think) missed what could have been a key free throw, and not only missed it, but appeared (according to replays) to miss the rim entirely.

seems like the wizards won on pure energy and home-court advantage.

[fentonfreshman]

Very sad right now.

[mzungu]

Starters usually play only 35-40 minutes anyway, so 48 minute averages aren't very helpful if you're looking for potential stats down the road.

no, they're helpful because you can find league ranks and because the guys are going to improve a good deal and because they allow for direct comparisons with the other rookies. they're also a lot better than saying, uh ... who do you think is going to be better? i don't know, maybe gordon. why? ... because he's really good in the fourth quarter.

[TrackDaddy]

The Mavericks will come out of the West.

[mzungu]

stop drinking the maverick kool-aid, td! they were just destroyed by the suns in game one. i hope it's the suns, but my mind tells me that it'll be the spurs, who have cruised since their game one loss to the nuggets. how about dwyane wade last night? only four other players had ever had 30 points, 15 assists, and 5 rebounds in a playoff game, guys like robertson, frazier, and magic. wade had 31/15/7. i hate to say it, but i think this guy is a lot better than kobe at this point. wade shoots a much higher percentage from the field and he's a better passer. more importantly, he's a disciplined player and a real team guy.

[exjersey1]

i think this guy is a lot better than kobe at this point. wade shoots a much higher percentage from the field and he's a better passer. more importantly, he's a disciplined player and a real team guy.

The guy who wants to win will always be better than the guy who wants to be a star.

[fentonfreshman]

Wade has so much more going for him because he's from Chicago!

[mzungu]

i'm surprised td wasn't here today to crow about the mavericks' victory over the suns last night, but just to anticipate, when you lose a guy like joe johnson after only 21 minutes of pt and 8 pts from a team that runs pretty much just five deep, and still lose only by two, you have to say that johnson's injury, caused by a hard foul by stackhouse, was the key to the game.
here are johnson's stats:
YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS
2004-2005 82 82 39.5 6.6-14.4 .461 2.2-4.5 .478 1.6-2.2 .750 0.96 0.3 1.8 2.0 1.5 3.7 5.1 3.5 17.1
STAT BREAKDOWN
CAREER 323 -- 33.3 5.2-11.9 .433 1.2-3.0 .382 1.4-1.8 .757 0.91 0.27 1.6 1.9 1.0 3.1 4.1 3.2 12.9
POSTSEASON -- 2005 6 6 39.2 6.8-13.2 .519 2.2-3.8 .565 3.2-4.7 .679 1.00 0.50 0.8 1.7 1.0 3.7 4.7 3.2 19.0

also, nice work from the pacers. the pistons are awfully good again this year and the pacers have a huge loss in artest, plus an unhealthy o'neal, so this victory over the pistons was pretty impressive.

[TrackDaddy]

Is it too late to crow? :p

Stackhouses's block was all ball, Mzu.

Joe Johnson was missed by the Suns, no doubt.

But depth, even when Joe is healthy, is the Suns' biggest problem facing the Mavs.

Avery Johnson is going to be a GREAT coach and his team is deep and underrated.

Dirk slapped Dampier with a dose of reality by calling him out, then led his team to victory. Damp showed up and played well too.

The Mavs will come out of the west.

[fentonfreshman]

Finley was not missing at all last night.

[TrackDaddy]

Finley was not missing at all last night.He saved his misses for game three. :(

[mzungu]

easy one for suns. great to see the pacers beat the pistons, despite pacer starters shooting 17 for 55. i would love to see the pistons go down, but i doubt it sans artest.