Tim Montgomery comeback?

[colonials]

http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content_0p.asp?ID=36580

Montgomery announced his retirement but has resumed training and would be eligible to compete again next summer.

"I think he will," Riddick said. "He ain't training for his health."

[Anthony]

I'm not a fan of known drug users coming back. But I am interested just to see how well he's doing... but I still don't want him running against clean athletes.

[wineturtle]

I'm not a fan of known drug users coming back. But I am interested just to see how well he's doing... but I still don't want him running against clean athletes.

I saw this list on letsbabble..Seems like we could fill a few lanes for a Returnee Meet. and this is from last year I think...more names to add.:mad: :(
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=1533436&thread=1533254

[Anthony]

lol like who??? Get a clue, braaa


While I believe TMont used drugs, I am against his banning as he never failed a test and the only evidence was illegally leaked testimony that may or may not (although it most likely is) fact.
I don't understand what you're asking.

"Like who?" -- what do you mean? Who he's running against, who came back after known steroids, etc?

I was referring to letting people who used steroids, in general, come back and compete against people who haven't tested positive in their entire lives. Regardless of the amount of time the ban was for, I'm not a fan of it (yes, I know it invalidates their suspesnion term, but I still don't care). Not sure what you're referring to.

Or are you saying no athlete is clean?

[jagerbomb]

Or are you saying no athlete is clean?

pretty sure that is the point he was trying to get at

[Joe Lanzalotto]

Sad. I understand why you feel the way you do, Davan, but if I were THAT cynical about the sport, I couldn't wactch it.

[homeless]

I thought it was fairly obvious that I was saying no athlete is clean...
so why do you pay attention to the sport?

if I thought people were dirty across the board I would give this sport as much attention as I do pro wrestling. zero

[Anthony]

I thought it was fairly obvious that I was saying no athlete is clean...
Who is he going to be competing against?
-Asafa? Laugh...
-Tyson Gay? lol x 1000 knowing Arkansas' reputation
-Leonard Scott??? lol dude went to Tennessee and is now with John Smith... hate to say it but GBA
Maybe I'm naive, but until there's proof that any of those athletes have used steroids, I don't buy it. You can play the cynic all you want, but I won't -- I want proof.

[run w/o shoes]

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE PROOF!:mad:












































:p jk, i don't think that they're all dirty either, just saw the opportunity to through in a variation of one of the greatest lines ever.

[Anthony]

Your logic is purely based on assumption and your own reasoning, Davan. You don't have any actual proof. If you can give me proof that every single top athlete in the track and field world is a drug cheat, then be my guest. :D

Do I think there are drug users? Yes. But (and again: maybe I'm being naive), to say that all of them are is a bit much for me. Is the sport not catching them, even when we have some of the best drug testing in the world? Is every single athlete going into their gym and injecting themselves in the rear when no one else is looking?

I guess the USATF, IAAF and all those agencies are just covering all of them up, right? That's why they got rid of the posterboy for the sport (Justin Gatlin)... they didn't want to make it too obvious. :D

[remiks]

You are not running sub 9.9 clean when every athlete that has is connected with dopers (typically coaches) or have failed tests themselves.

9.77 +1.6 Asafa Powell
9.77 +1.7 Justin Gatlin
9.79 +0.1 Maurice Greene
9.84 +0.7 Donovan Bailey
9.84 +0.2 Bruny Surin
9.84 +1.0 Tyson Gay
9.85 +1.2 Leroy Burrell
9.85 +1.7 Adekotunbo Olusoji Fasuba
9.86 +1.2 Carl Lewis
9.86 +1.8 Ato Boldon
9.86 +0.6 Francis Obikwelu
9.87 +0.3 Linford Christie
9.87A -0.2 Obadele Thompson
9.87 +0.6 Maurice Greene
9.88 +1.8 Shawn Crawford

Go ahead, tell me how each and every one of them are connected to dopers or have failed tests. You may very well have been correct, but I'm not really sure how accurate your assertion is until you prove it.

[colonials]

Is everyone on drugs? No. Is all of the top on drugs? I am going to say yes. You are not running sub 9.9 clean when every athlete that has is connected with dopers (typically coaches) or have failed tests themselves.

It isn't cynical, it is the truth. Why do you guys believe certain things that Victor Conte et al say, but not when they say everyone else is on drugs?
No, you are being extremely cynical, because you can't say it's the truth without proof to back up such a statement.

[remiks]

Just to clarify, OF COURSE I know about Graham's people, SMTC, HSI, etc etc etc and the doping cloud surrounding them. I know that John Smith admitted to using drugs, I know about Pierre Jean since I browse Charlie Francis' site. I posted the full list of all the guys that ran sub 9.90, because that's what I wanted to talk about. If you read what I quoted, you might have gotten a clue and understood it. I don't really know about Thompson's coaches, Arkansas, or Bailey's coaches. So please, can you elaborate on these things with some more evidence, instead of being so damn stuck up about it? I'm seeking to learn about this sort of thing and have a discussion, not argue over the internet.


All in all, I think plenty of people are users, sure; but I'm more of an optimist. Otherwise I'd probably get pretty bored with track.

[Sydney Dean]

We know Gatlin failed a test and you can take a guess of what may have happened at the JA championships years back.

I can take a guess what happened: he tested positive for a mild stimulant that was included in the ADD medication he had taken for almost 10 years. The initial two-year ban was reduced to a one-year ban. I bet when Justin was 11, he said to himself, "I'm going to pretend to have ADD so that I can take this medication which will maybe help me run a tiny bit faster 10 years from now." That makes a lot of sense.

The Arkansas program and his coach has a reputation and you can see the history there.

What reputation? I can't think of any other Arkansas sprinters who were busted for drugs. And which coach are you talking about, Lance Brauman or John McDonnell?

[Joe Lanzalotto]

Unlike Davan, I cannot be enthralled with greats feats accomplished under the infuence of PEDs. Also unlike Davan I cannot believe that virtually all the greats since the 60s were and are users. I have never been called naive.

[Anthony]

Davan, he posted what you asked for.

And over half of your arguments are 'are you serious?,' 'well, he's in that camp,' 'Bob told me he took drugs.'

Now, I'm not saying your claims are wrong. For all I know, maybe you're right. But you don't have any proof to back up all of what you say other than hypotheticals, assumptions, and connotations.

Don't try to make others look like idiots for thinking something when all you're doing is thinking the opposite.

[homeless]

Look, where there is smoke, there is fire.

Does it mean these athletes are clean? No. If you are in a group that promotes drug use at the coaching level, then you are most likely a drug user.
and here is the flaw in your assumptions...

I spent about a 6 year period of climbing and/or surfing 150-200 days per year...the most weed smoking crews you've ever seen in your life...guys that rolled, set em in a plastic baggie and lit up once the were up top belaying or after they paddled out, sitting in the lineup...the heavily addicted, over the top kind of weed heads (one friend scraped a floor looking for any remnants one morning)...spent 6 solid years among them. EVERY SINGLE ONE smoking up constantly...

except me

not once ever. never. never smoked in my life. they couldn't care less and respected it. should I have hung out with a different crowd? maybe. but these were the best climbers and surfers in the area; big time guys. I chose to learn with the best. didn't partake in the extracurricular activities...just hung with

so by your assumption I'm either lying or I got so burned myself I don't even remember it.

all assumptions are made starting with an "ass"

[homeless]

lol does weed act as a performance enhancer for surfing? Will it allow you to earn potentially MILLIONS of dollars, along with fame, in that sport?
keep addressing everyone here like they are jackasses because they don't agree with you, really reels 'em in...

no, it is not a performance enhancer, per se...but if you've ever tried to do world class climbs or surfed hurricanes, rest assured, there is a camp that says yes, it does help (otherwise some people wouldn't be getting off the ground or paddling out)...[this was 95% in jest]...

either way, I was referencing your smoke/fire and "group" statements...;you make the assertion that if you are around it and everyone else is, and someone happens to be "X", then they must...

along your lines of thinking...if my girlfriend is great in bed and she has friends that are promiscuous, should I assume my girlfriend has slept with a hundred guys?

based on her a) between the sheets performance and b) associates?

along your line of thinking, the answer is of course: "...please..." :rolleyes:

[homeless]

Is she one of the best females in the sack in the world (and can you measure this and do you know if she had been just okay before after trying to get better and then all of a sudden turned into the best?)?

Again, you are missing the point. This is specific to track and field. If group "A" has a coach and athletes that use drugs and have had multiple athletes failed tests and you then join this group and you then surpass athletes who used drugs and the best of all time (some within the same group and are known users) then it is safe to say that the athlete is more than likely a drug user. Would this hold up in a court of law? Of course not. I mean, a jury let OJ off and we let murderers off everyday. I am not saying that we should ban everyone, but it is quite clear what is going on, whether you want to believe it or not.
I'm not missing anything, nor is anyone else you are talking to. We just disagree; according to you the majority is so stupid here it must be time to elect Bush again. What I would be judging is the set of facts before me and any other prior information I know for certain. What you are judging is a set of variables that you just don't truly know. As a long time coach, I know that if I inherit an athlete that has run "X" prior to joining me, and that now runs significantly faster than "X"...if I take credit for that jump I'm a jackass. For all I know or don't know other variables have changed. You want to isolate all jumps in ability to one variable.

As far as in court...you are damned right it wouldn't hold up in court, and for good reason...it's called proof. Your understanding of the court system and burden of proof is obviously a bit limited. The jury would not be flawed in acquitting your hypothetical athlete.

I'm not naive about the prevelance of drugs in our sport as I'm not naive about the fact that my girlfriend has been with other men. But I'm not gonna let either ruin my world or make me dwell on the negative. I'm not gonna stumble around all day like an 88 year old man saying "they're all dirty, the sport is fixed anyways...they pick the winners before the race, just like wrestling"...It's the idea that we give someone the benefit of the doubt until they have proven a transgressor.

Which brings up a famous quote that becomes more and more appropriate.

Better you keep your mouth shut and have people think you a fool than open it and prove them correct.

[homeless]

I am not saying that we should ban everyone, but it is quite clear what is going on, whether you want to believe it or not.
not ban everyone...great thought. really can't say I had considered banning EVERYONE from the frickin' sport!!!

clear? clear? you know what, you are right...let's ban EVERYONE from the sport...or at least the top 5% of last years world list...:rolleyes:

no, nothing is clear to me like it is to you. I must have gotten a bit more pliable of mind with age...the whole shades of gray idea...

enjoy your black and white world, it's a bitch ain't it?

[Joe Lanzalotto]

Well tell me who, among these athletes, you believe were clean (this should be interesting):

-Armin Hary
-Pietro Minnea
-Borzov
-John Smith
-Carl Lewis
-Ben Johnson
-Dennis Mitchell
-Leroy Burrell
-Linford Christie
-Maurice Greene
-Ato Boldon
-Tim Montgomery
-Asafa Powell
-Justin Gatlin

This isn't all of the greats since the '60s, but it is a fairly large list of greats and record holders from the '60s and forward. I'm sorry if this is a trap--not intended to be--just honestly curious which of these guys you believe was/is clean.

Davan, I have always regarded you as a person who knows what s/he is talking about, with an edge. I read your posts and mostly agree with them. You've got a right to think whatever you want to and post it. Again, I mostly agree.

This latest series of posts, this one in particular are so condescending and waiting to punce and belittle that I am not going to respond to your question. Why should I? You start out with "this should be intersting" implying 'can't wait to see what this idiot says'. Whoever I name, you can introduce some unfounded, unsupported innuendo or rumor to support your claims. I am not going to bother. You do what you want with that...nothing to support a lot of what you are saying here. As far as we know, you have no credentials to make these claims. You've not presented yourself as an insider, somone who has been behind the scenes and knows these guys.

Hey, what about Ryun, Clarke and Mills? Ooops, no distance runners on that list!

[remiks]

I am not trying to actively belittle anybody, but people here are no naive it is amazing.
I'm not being naive, I'm just asking how and why you think they have a connection to PEDs. What evidence is out there that proves what you say. Not because I think its impossible that the Arkansas Program is or has been associated with people who use drugs, but because I have never heard about anything of the sort.

[homeless]

We were talking about sprinters, not distance runners. Oh, if you want to talk about what the great USADA and WADA is doing about them, that would be great.

I am not trying to actively belittle anybody, but people here are no naive it is amazing. Here is what I want to try to understand: If 2 athletes are equally talented and in equally capable training programs and are equally as dedicated, what makes people think that one using PEDs will not be at a significant advantage over the person who is not? What makes people think that a clean athlete can surpass one with PEDs (you forget, most of these guys on the list who haven't tested positive surpassed people in their group who we know for a fact were using drugs via failed tests!).

Also, the list I made has quite a bit of foundation. Some were part of state initiated doping programs, some failed drug tests (or multiple drug tests), and some were with coaches that had multiple other athletes in their group fail drug tests.
:rolleyes: God I hope you aren't a coach

[Anthony]

Davan, you do realize that you've changed the argument completely, correct? Now you're only arguing 100m runners from our era that were involved or hinted at being involved in drugs in some form or another.

You're forgetting the topic at hand was that you claimed everyone that runs sprints are currently all drug users. You can't keep changing the argument. Yes, we all know a lot of 100m runners have been drug users. Yes, we know it's an obvious implication for a lot of others that we can't say for sure. But this is about ALL sprinters, and it's about right NOW. Don't change the topic.

[homeless]

Davan, you do realize that you've changed the argument completely, correct? Now you're only arguing 100m runners from our era that were involved or hinted at being involved in drugs in some form or another.

You're forgetting the topic at hand was that you claimed everyone that runs sprints are currently all drug users. You can't keep changing the argument. Yes, we all know a lot of 100m runners have been drug users. Yes, we know it's an obvious implication for a lot of others that we can't say for sure. But this is about ALL sprinters, and it's about right NOW. Don't change the topic.
please don't make him reread his own posts...

[Sydney Dean]

You mean when he tested positive for synthetic testosterone? Right.

No, I'm talking about when he tested postive for the mild stimulant in his ADD medication.

Of course I am talking about Lance Brauman. Look at that slick guy's history, please.

I could not find anything about Lance Brauman providing drugs/steroids to his athletes. Perhaps you could enlighten me. He got in trouble for forging documents, arranging phone work-study programs, mail fraud, etc. But nothing about performance enhancement.

[homeless]

No, I'm talking about when he tested postive for the mild stimulant in his ADD medication.



I could not find anything about Lance Brauman providing drugs/steroids to his athletes. Perhaps you could enlighten me. He got in trouble for forging documents, arranging phone work-study programs, mail fraud, etc. But nothing about performance enhancement.
you are clearly too dense to see the obvious crumb trail...he and everyone else are giving, have given and will always be giving their athletes PEDs...in fact, most coaches now take them themselves so they have the requisite footspeed to cross the track to be on the line for 200m splits...idiot

just bring me my chapstick

[Joe Lanzalotto]

I guess you just defined the limit of human performance at 100 meters. (without PEDs, that is).

[Sydney Dean]

you are clearly too dense to see the obvious crumb trail...he and everyone else are giving, have given and will always be giving their athletes PEDs...in fact, most coaches now take them themselves so they have the requisite footspeed to cross the track to be on the line for 200m splits...idiot

just bring me my chapstick

I can't even tell if you're serious or not. If you are, then you're a ****ing idiot.

[Sydney Dean]

You make no sense. I referenced Gatlin testing positive and you bring up ADD meds (he was using an amphetamine similar to speed by the way, far from mild) when he has tested positive for testosterone as we all know. No idea why you brought up the stim. positive when he already tested positive for steroids...

This should clear it up. You wrote the following:

We know Gatlin failed a test and you can take a guess of what may have happened at the JA championships years back.

What DID happen at the JA championships years back? He tested positive for a substance found in the ADD medication he had been taking for almost a decade. Understand now?

[homeless]

1. Being significantly better than those who are equally talented and were proven to be on drugs
2. Having massive performance jumps despite being a relatively matured athlete

1. Your ability to comparitively assess potential out of the womb is otherworldly.

2. At age 35, after being a pretty good Division 1 miler with above average speed, I now (at 35) possess far greater speed than I had at 20. I was fast and closing miles in 58/59 at times in high school. Good raw and carrying speed then. Now WAY stronger. Why? The coach, me, improved a lot; USATF Level 1/2 courses do a lot of good, but then again I'm sure that's just roughly 100 hours worth of seat time and a piece of paper with some of the best in the world. Those guys/gals from Texas, LSU, Oregon, Miss. St., West Point, Tennessee etc. don't have a frickin' clue what THEY are talking about and with only 20+ years as an athlete and 11 as a coach how could I possibly be smart enough to properly assimilate and digest said information.

3. (adding this response on my own) Idiot. Just bring my chapstick.

[homeless]

I can't even tell if you're serious or not. If you are, then you're a ****ing idiot.
ummmmmmmm...thank you for giving me the benfit of the doubt. the fact that you even potentially took me seriously...you have the same teacher all day?

[colonials]

Homeless in good form before 6AM...school must have started!

[homeless]

my new team opens up tomorrow...can't wait. an easy one, but we get a strong team next Tuesday...can't wait, can't wait. for a team with one girl with one year experience and a new head coach, we're gonna cause some problems brother...:D

[Sydney Dean]

JAMAICAN ATHLETICS CHAMPIONSHIPS
I was referencing ASAFA POWELL when there was a mysterious positive from 1 athlete, yet under further review the A sample was found to be from a different athlete altogether, yet this was brushed under the rug quickly. Before you make comments like that, at least clarify with me what I meant if you aren't sure, then you can make them all you want.

By the way, look up what ADD med he was using. I doubt he was planning on using it as a PED, but the fact is, he was using what is essentially legal speed. Go ask some college students what adderall does when they need to study for a test..

I thought you were referencing the USATF Junior Championships, which some people confuse with the JO's (Junior Olympics) from 2001. Little clerical error. You are basing your entire claim purely on speculation though.

[Sydney Dean]

ummmmmmmm...thank you for giving me the benfit of the doubt. the fact that you even potentially took me seriously...you have the same teacher all day?

Believe it or not, there are some people on here who are really that stupid.

[homeless]

Believe it or not, there are some people on here who are really that stupid.
I know, just busting stones...;)...actually, if you've been paying attention to the tread we all are...especially me, because I have the nerve to disagree using established facts rather than conjecture :o

and...................................davan, go! :cool:

[homeless]

If you haven't been training speed then start training it, you will improve, quite clearly. Also, strength peaks around that time for males, so if you haven't done serious strength training (and/or speed for that matter), it is not that surprising to get faster.

You are also forgetting these elite athletes have been in those training systems for years already! Some were in systems that capable at the high school level, but most have been since high school. Again, how in the hell is somebody, IN A TRAINING SYSTEM OF EQUAL CALIBER, going to improve after years of stagnation to levels above somebody who is on drugs in the same system? I'll give you an example--we know that group ___ has had positives. We also know the most well known member of this group has never tested positive. Now, if this member surpassed every athlete of this group, even those who have tested positive for drugs (including steroids), within a single season, is it reasonable to believe there is something else to it?

I don't see your point in bringing up learning about those training systems when these athletes have already been in those systems. If someone improved more in 1 year then the 4 previous combined in the same training system, how do you explain that? Working harder? Hard to believe that.
hard for you...I'm not naive...but rather than try and convince you, from now on in this thread I'll just start quoting and bolding your omniscient assumptions. Please don't inspire to go back and do so for each thread.

[homeless]

But since the first two are directly towards me, whose training history I'm relatively familiar with :rolleyes:

1) Always did, I was a HS <30mpw miler, training like a 800 or faster guy with no serious aerobic base, but speed and cajones over last 400 meters

2) Haven't yet done; but speed at a peak...speed better than last year. Last year better than the year before. Should be running 9.76 by the time I retire.

Speaking of retiring, who has the beating a dead horse graphic?

[homeless]

Davan...you are officially at the point where I'm pulling out the stops a bit. Just a bit. Rationale discussion ended a long time ago and you just hit a nerve. Ban or not (and if so I should be right behind your dumb self).

You are a complete not-so-smart guy at this point. Has it ever occured to you that there are some people on here that know some stud other than you? Willing to bet I could coach your posterior under a table and then tickle you with it. Everyone else here is evidently a complete moron. Did you post 3 times in a row because you thought I meant I was retiring? No, suggesting you darn retire. Walk away. Elway style. Do it in class. Well, you're a little past that.

Firstly, while I could have run 200/400 in HS with training, I decided to throw at least a few miles at the training and race with guts. The growing up under a 2:35 marathoner/distance coach kind of suggested it. So do I have a guage of MY pure speed at all ages? Yes. Do I know what it's like to run 9.77. No. Did I have pure speed? Yes. I was the one white kid on a team that often had 60 people and...one white kid. I was named an honarary black man as a freshman because I could do sprint work with the seniors. World class? No. Faster now than in HS and college RE: pure speed? Yes. I love YOU talking about world class speed and chastising me for doing the same. If you've run sub 10, pics or shens and if pics I'll be quiet. Not gonna happen.

Thanks for throwing the 50-60m number at me...though I had kind of picked that up in my first decade of coaching, we also covered that in the first hour of about 100+ at USATF. But hey, good work. You read the right book. Unless of course you actually see all athletes as DIFFERENT and recognize a range of max velocity, abnd how women and men are different, and how ideal may be further up the track, and...oh be quiet.

As far as Lance, read old posts and what I've said. Do your darned research. I again wear a Livestrong bracelet (young step-sis just had major surgery and is due for another soon; bad news on the lymph nodes, so forgive me mean guy)...now if Lance wants to beat cancer, and do what he did, I'm gonna go and give him the benefit of the doubt at heart until I see otherwise. That's just me. Of course, personally I think he probably had brain surgery, and cut open his foreside and lopped off a testicle just to get some sympathy. Hoping France, that loves Americans, would pick on other people. Saw the article today. Great. Good for the teammate that may or may not have been offered $ to talk (nothing to lose now; retired) and that the other was anonymous. There's a difference between a step closer and proof. If Lance tests positive in the future I will be the first to call "Jerk". Until then, shush. Are YOU more important and your stupid mean omnisciece, or the millions of people in this country that cancer affects. It's not all about that, certainly not, but most people recognize there is some substance to this guy, he is doing good, and millions need him. It's dudes like you that lead my sister to say "I don't know, a lot of people say..." while she has to try and survive.

The Jersey contingent knows me well enough to know I don't get like this. Heated yes, but in a discussion that is usually on the Playground where I have learned to stay away. On these boards I am tired of the silly accusations. I don't care if I get banned forever at this point because fellas like you make it miserable to come on here.

Now desist, stop making guesses and start thinking about the world that is more than 5 feet from you. If everyone is dirty, what the hell do you care. It's only miserable bitches like you that make it hard for all of us. That send people to other sports. Do you coach? Or are you just some other fella that spews like he knows a darned thing about coaching and what athletes can/can't do. Don't play the "I was an athlete" card unless you really wanna look like a silly guy.

The more you talk the more you look like a myopic dude...

No, better yet, shush you you self righteous fella.

Ban away. Hope you can look yourself in the mirror tonight when you think about my sister. Hope you think about her every time you have to accuse someone of being dirty with absolutely zero proof.

I hope your arms fall off in a horrible accident.

Steve :D Do we get at least one mullligan every 2 years when they don't even listen to you? :D Who cares, it was worth it.

Edited for PG now that DA has read it...kinda makes you remember why certain things look silly on TV (if you didn't see pre-edit...)

[homeless]

lol like who??? Get a clue, braaa


While I believe TMont used drugs, I am against his banning as he never failed a test and the only evidence was illegally leaked testimony that may or may not (although it most likely is) fact.
#1

[homeless]

I thought it was fairly obvious that I was saying no athlete is clean...
Who is he going to be competing against?
-Asafa? Laugh...
-Tyson Gay? lol x 1000 knowing Arkansas' reputation
-Leonard Scott??? lol dude went to Tennessee and is now with John Smith... hate to say it but GBA
#2

[homeless]

Why wouldn't I want to watch the sport just because athletes are on drugs? Ever think that just maybe those are some of the most impressive feats regardless of drug use? Ever think that drug use has been widespread in all sports since the '60s? I hope you aren't watching football, which is probably the most drug infested sport (outside of lifting and pure strength sports) in the world.

Is everyone on drugs? No. :rolleyes: nice turn around from your last post:rolleyes: Is all of the top on drugs? I am going to say yes. You are not running sub 9.9 clean when every athlete that has is connected with dopers (typically coaches) or have failed tests themselves.

It isn't cynical, it is the truth. Why do you guys believe certain things that Victor Conte et al say, but not when they say everyone else is on drugs?
#3

[homeless]

Hmm right buddy. Is it based on assumption that every sub 9.9 100m runner is tied to doping in the form of a failed test or with a coach that has multiple athletes failing tests?

Why would they go inject themselves in a gym? Are you that stupid? People can do this in their homes... why the hell would they inject themselves in such an unsanitary place like a gym?

Some of the best drug testing in the world? You mean the drug testing that caught Tim Montgomery, right? The drug testing that caught all of those Balco athletes, only after Trevor Graham turned in a syringe when his top athletes left him? The drug testing that kept Carl Lewis and SMTC safe for over a decade? The drug testing that can't catch a single major distance runner? Drug testing that can't catch Liar Lance?
#4

[homeless]

We know Gatlin failed a test and you can take a guess of what may have happened at the JA championships years back. Ever heard of Steve Mullings? Why don't you go and find out how, when his B-sample was tested, it was found the A sample (which had a positive) was from a different athlete? How do you get a mistake like that? His drop of well over half a second (and he had been training a couple years prior with no such performance jumps, growth spurts, or anything) in a single season, the first season working with S. Francis, tells you a fair amount as well. John Smith has had multiple top athletes in his group test positive and he trained under Charlie Francis for a period of time. If you want to go further (all parties will admit the former statements), Charlie Francis even says John Smith introduced him to modern drug use (keep in mind, this was stated many years before Ato, Greene, etc. so there really is no conflict of interest for CF)
Hope you are joking. Dan Pfaff is not considered the cleanest coach and you can look at Bruny Surin's physique change near the end of his career (coincidentally the peak and when he was workingn with pfaff) and tell me if you think that happens to an athlete on the way out of the track scene. You can also look at an achilles tear and an athlete coming back to run sub 10 or an athlete going to world record level in only a few years of training as evidence as well.
The Arkansas program and his coach has a reputation and you can see the history there. You can also look how dropping over 2 tenths of a second in a single season after not progressing a lot as an interesting fact.
His coach had multiple gold medalists test positive for multiple drugs and I believe Burrell himself even tested positive, but I may be wrong on that. I do know both Lewis and DeLoach tested positive and it was hidden for well over a decade. His coach openly associates with Charlie Francis even now and there is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence that associates him with drugs as well. Dropped over 2 tenths in a single season after already running sub 10.1 and being at a plateau... you tell me. While Charlie Francis has many great ideas and information, if you are an elite athlete, are you going to associate with someone like this? Would you associate with Trevor Graham, regardless of his ability as a coach, if that much is at stake?
He failed a drug test, next.
See Mo. His association with John Smith should tell you enough. This is the only guy I don't have any specific evidence against drug use for--mostly because of the lack of info and recognition of his coach. He has also had some interesting performance jumps, but again, his coach hasn't coached enough athletes and doesn't present enough information on her associations to really say anything more.
Failed a drug test and was banned.
Look at the coaches he was with and you tell me.
LMAO you are serious aren't you? With Trevor Graham... according to most sources failed a test in 2005.... had a massive performance jump mid career... Come on...



Now before you have me take care of more of this garbage, why don't you do some research of your own? Why don't you learn something before listing a bunch of athletes who have failed drug tests and it is publically known that they did? You listed Gatlin, Lewis, Christie, and a bunch of athletes in known drug groups (HSI, SMTC, etc.).
#5

[homeless]

Look, where there is smoke, there is fire. Only 1 of Charlie Francis' athletes tested positive ever and it is under highly questionable conditions, yet all of his top athletes were on drugs by his own admission.

Another camp: Trevor Graham's has had some athletes test positive, yet Tim Montgomery NEVER tested positive.

Does it mean these athletes are clean? No. If you are in a group that promotes drug use at the coaching level, then you are most likely a drug user. Benefit of the doubt? Well yes, that is why they still run, but that doesn't mean they are clean. I am not saying we should ban all of them or declare them dirty, but the fact is, they are. You can deny it however much you want, but talk to any sprinter at a high level and ask them (real talk) how dirty the top is and you can hear it for yourself (of course, they may be dirty themselves, so who knows).
# I'm losing count of how insulting you are and how many people you have spoken ill of. Gatlin can go to hell.

[homeless]

You mean when he tested positive for synthetic testosterone? Right.

Of course I am talking about Lance Brauman. Look at that slick guy's history, please.
#42

[homeless]

Well tell me who, among these athletes, you believe were clean (this should be interesting):

-Armin Hary
-Pietro Minnea
-Borzov
-John Smith
-Carl Lewis
-Ben Johnson
-Dennis Mitchell
-Leroy Burrell
-Linford Christie
-Maurice Greene
-Ato Boldon
-Tim Montgomery
-Asafa Powell
-Justin Gatlin

This isn't all of the greats since the '60s, but it is a fairly large list of greats and record holders from the '60s and forward. I'm sorry if this is a trap--not intended to be--just honestly curious which of these guys you believe was/is clean.

jackass

[homeless]

lol does weed act as a performance enhancer for surfing? Will it allow you to earn potentially MILLIONS of dollars, along with fame, in that sport?
#69

[homeless]

Is she one of the best females in the sack in the world (and can you measure this and do you know if she had been just okay before after trying to get better and then all of a sudden turned into the best?)?

Again, you are missing the point. This is specific to track and field. If group "A" has a coach and athletes that use drugs and have had multiple athletes failed tests and you then join this group and you then surpass athletes who used drugs and the best of all time (some within the same group and are known users) then it is safe to say that the athlete is more than likely a drug user. Would this hold up in a court of law? Of course not. I mean, a jury let OJ off and we let murderers off everyday. I am not saying that we should ban everyone, but it is quite clear what is going on, whether you want to believe it or not.
#977

[Sydney Dean]

I hope your nads fall off in a horrible accident.

I'm not condoning this type of language...but I laughed really hard when I read that.

[homeless]

We were talking about sprinters, not distance runners. Oh, if you want to talk about what the great USADA and WADA is doing about them, that would be great.

I am not trying to actively belittle anybody, but people here are no naive it is amazing. Here is what I want to try to understand: If 2 athletes are equally talented and in equally capable training programs and are equally as dedicated, what makes people think that one using PEDs will not be at a significant advantage over the person who is not? What makes people think that a clean athlete can surpass one with PEDs (you forget, most of these guys on the list who haven't tested positive surpassed people in their group who we know for a fact were using drugs via failed tests!).

Also, the list I made has quite a bit of foundation. Some were part of state initiated doping programs, some failed drug tests (or multiple drug tests), and some were with coaches that had multiple other athletes in their group fail drug tests.
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......#1932

[homeless]

I was referring to the top in the world, ie. top 2-3 in a given event. Of course not all 100m runners are on drugs--I know that most high school and collegiate athletes are clean (hope you get the tongue in cheek response).

Also, when did I say only from our era? Borzov, Minnea and Hary were from before our era, or at least, before most of us were into the professional track scene and were both great sprinters. I mentioned them because of what took place from the 1960's and on via Dr. Ziegler and of course the eastern europeans. Carl Lewis isn't exactly from the current era, nor is Ben Johnson. I am not changing my point.

Again, I am not suggesting to ban everybody or even to suspect EVERY athlete:rolleyes: learn to at least remember your argument W:rolleyes: , but to believe that the very best in the most popular event in track, which draws in many of the most talented athletes in the world at some point, are clean even though they are performing significantly better than peers who we know were on drugs just seems ridiculous. Of course, they are all innocent until proven guilty (sadly, some have been proven guilty, but that is kept from the public ie Carl Lewis and others), but to honestly believe they are clean is insane.
are you frickin' multiply personalitied?

[homeless]

The most recent, big time NCAA sprinter to test positive was from Brauman's group just a year before.

Again, you guys can believe this all you want--it is pretty funny really--but you are only kidding yourselves.

What is funny is, when most athletes have such strong connections to drugs, you seem to believe that an athlete with seemingly fewer (I say this because saying he said she said isn't great for the purpose of the argument) It only went to 7 Font, sorry guys and gals, this was a good one)or no connections to be clean despite:
1. Being significantly better than those who are equally talented and were proven to be on drugs
2. Having massive performance jumps despite being a relatively matured athlete

I won't waste my time in the thread anymore, since it is obvious only seeing the athlete take steroids will be enough proof for those here, which is fine, just don't try to convince clean athletes when they are training their hardest and smartest that they can achieve sub 9.9 and sub 9.8 times without the use of PEDs.
could you please be consistent and live up to promises?

[homeless]

Not really. I believe there have been sub 10s clean and maybe those individuals could have gone sub 9.9 clean, but they didn't and I highly suspect anybody who has gone sub 9.9 under legal conditions for reasons stated before. Tim Montgomery, ironically, is the person I am referring to here.
I've almost had enough of this...but...

[homeless]

If you haven't been training speed then start training it, you will improve, quite clearly. Also, strength peaks around that time for males, so if you haven't done serious strength training (and/or speed for that matter), it is not that surprising to get faster.

You are also forgetting these elite athletes have been in those training systems for years already! Some were in systems that capable at the high school level, but most have been since high school. Again, how in the hell is somebody, IN A TRAINING SYSTEM OF EQUAL CALIBER, going to improve after years of stagnation to levels above somebody who is on drugs in the same system? I'll give you an example--we know that group ___ has had positives. We also know the most well known member of this group has never tested positive. Now, if this member surpassed every athlete of this group, even those who have tested positive for drugs (including steroids), within a single season, is it reasonable to believe there is something else to it?

I don't see your point in bringing up learning about those training systems when these athletes have already been in those systems. If someone improved more in 1 year then the 4 previous combined in the same training system, how do you explain that? Working harder? Hard to believe that.
now you know my history better than me...cute

[homeless]

Where is any of that pure speed? Are you kidding me? Elites are hitting max velocity around 50-60m and you are talking about speed in the last 400m of an 800m race? You are comparing apples and oranges. A middle distance runner changing to more speed work is not the same as a 100m sprinter. It also isn't anything comparable to ELITES that are near or at world record levels.
and again...thanks for watching me train for the last 22 years..good work

[homeless]

Which claim? On Asafa? You're right, but the fact is, someone had a positive and it wasn't Steve Mullings. How that happens, you can find the answer yourself. It is already known and published that there were multiple athletes that tested positive under USATF and had their results covered up, but you are too naive to think this would happen in a place known for forms of corruption and one that doesn't have an USADA type program.

If you are talking about the stimulant, it isn't really speculation. Ask someone who has actually taken adderall and find out how mild it is.. maybe it will change your definition of "mild" a bit.
maybe you should take a bit less or more...the opposite of the current dose

[colonials]

I won't waste my time in the thread anymore,
Homeless - I thought this meant he wasn't going to write anymore...too bad, that would have saved you some aggravation! ;)

[homeless]

Sports Digest: Armstrong's teammates admit to EPO
Sep. 12, 2006. 06:37 AM

Cycling

Two of Armstrong's teammates admit taking drugs in '99

Two of Lance Armstrong's eight teammates from the 1999 Tour de France have admitted for the first time that they used the banned endurance-boosting drug EPO in preparing for the race that year, when they helped Armstrong capture the first of his record seven titles.

Their disclosures, in interviews with the New York Times, are rare examples of candour in a sport protected by a powerful code of silence. The confessions come as cycling is reeling from doping scandals, including Floyd Landis' fall in July from tour champion to suspected cheat.

One of the two teammates who admitted using EPO while on Armstrong's U.S. Postal Service team is Frankie Andreu, a 39-year-old retired team captain who had been part of Armstrong's inner circle for more than a decade.



You know what though... I BET LANCE WAS CLEAN... he was just beating all of these dirty athletes, some of whom were in his group, while being clean. Yep... same goes for all of those other athletes beating all the drug users, including those in their own group, but doing it clean.
and finally for posterity, we have the final gem. Way to pick on the cancer retiree. I said it before, I'll say it again: the day he turns up dirty, I'm first in line to call A$$hole. But here's the difference between you and I. I'll still proudly wear the Livestrong bracelet, because it's not about me, or you, or him, or anything except cancer survivors and my sister. But nothing matters to you except how you do (or don't) believe everyone is dirty, or how you don't (or actually do) insult people in this thread. It ain't incidental genius. These posts are going nowhere even if I'm banned. Which means only Steve U pulls em down. Which means I get banned and don't care anymore because you others have made this a miserable f***ing place this past summer with this bulls*** and I gotta coach anyways. But if he does that, he also sees what he told you and everyone else to NOT do. It's OK, you only named about 25 people that never tested positive. Sorry dude, no delete at this point and I ain't doing it. I'm a going down with the ship kinda guy.

Now STFU

If this is bye bye for me, peace to all of you except Davan and wish you well this year. :D I ain't coming back anyways if this bull**** doesn't stop. Gotta go coach now. Good luck with that mirror tomorrow bud

[homeless]

Homeless - I thought this meant he wasn't going to write anymore...too bad, that would have saved you some aggravation! ;)
"Please don't inspire to go back and do so for each thread"

He forgets what he says...I remembered what I'd said. You don't rip half of the sprint population from the last 25 years and walk away when you want to because you've had enough.

I may bump this thread (never done that) until I or he gets banned or it's removed. We'll see how I feel after morning coffee.

Maybe as a daily warmup until he retracts. There's still gonna be a 24 hour lag time, so you may wanna think fast and hurry with the apology to all. PM's don't count. Or don't.

[homeless]

quick bump :-)

[Anthony]

quick bump :-)
Let the thread die.

[homeless]

Let the thread die.
I'm fair minded with rational requests, so I'll ask. Why? So someone else can start a similar thread the next time someone runs fast? So when another person gets caught we can accuse 45 more. I want this issue done more than you do. Unless there is a reasonable way to stop this though, I'm not walking away. Steve U has said STOP. Steve U has cut threads and through all his good work this crap persists. I've had it. In no way am I going to suggest ********** words are "appropriate", but since the Playground (which I'm pretty sure is attached to Dyestat is rife with all kinds of ridiculous, but at least funny stuff, why on this portion that we call serious do we allow this to persist. I'm all for argument, discourse, etc....don't even care about the insults as much as I care about the 25 names he's dropped casually and the fact he can't even keep his story straight while doing so.

This has to end. Not because I want it. I'm nobody. But because we as a sport need it. This is not the solution. I think I said Gatlin can go to hell on here (hope you can and are reading Justin, I was a big fan; called my dad at Penn when I saw you on the backstraight for UT- said I just saw the next Olympic Champ...many years before). My dad's National Champ ran for UT, coaches now at a bigtime place. She graduated HS in 86'. She and UT are awesome. But they have to have HS kids reading what this smack says is "truth".

Come on. There was a 9/11 special on for two nights that was FICTIONAL...they admitted it. Evidently 9/11 wasn't scary enough, or sexy enough, or exciting enough, or tragic enough, or emotional enough...so they had to get a bit creative.

But Davan knows facts. To be honest, this isn't just about Davan, probably a nice guy, maybe so. But when you rip people like this you need to be accountable for it or you will keep doing it.

I have done so and changed my tune. An ass ripping sometimes changes a person. Sometimes other people learn from it. I ain't gonna solve evreything. But damnit people please look in the frickin' mirror and ask yourself how you would feel.

I almost got kicked out of William and Mary for an absurd incident once...would have been out on my ass. One guy of 15 stood up like a man and said I had nothing to do with it (which was the truth)...thank God. If he hadn't I had already been called before all the Deans...no BS that's scary. They told me he spoke up. Maybe I don't know what it feels like to run 9.77, but I know what ity feels like to be falsely accused.

Peace

[Anthony]

I'm fair minded with rational requests, so I'll ask. Why? So someone else can start a similar thread the next time someone runs fast? So when another person gets caught we can accuse 45 more. I want this issue done more than you do. Unless there is a reasonable way to stop this though, I'm not walking away. Steve U has said STOP. Steve U has cut threads and through all his good work this crap persists. I've had it. In no way am I going to suggest ********** words are "appropriate", but since the Playground (which I'm pretty sure is attached to Dyestat is rife with all kinds of ridiculous, but at least funny stuff, why on this portion that we call serious do we allow this to persist. I'm all for argument, discourse, etc....don't even care about the insults as much as I care about the 25 names he's dropped casually and the fact he can't even keep his story straight while doing so.

This has to end. Not because I want it. I'm nobody. But because we as a sport need it. This is not the solution. I think I said Gatlin can go to hell on here (hope you can and are reading Justin, I was a big fan; called my dad at Penn when I saw you on the backstraight for UT- said I just saw the next Olympic Champ...many years before). My dad's National Champ ran for UT, coaches now at a bigtime place. She graduated HS in 86'. She and UT are awesome. But they have to have HS kids reading what this smack says is "truth".

Come on. There was a 9/11 special on for two nights that was FICTIONAL...they admitted it. Evidently 9/11 wasn't scary enough, or sexy enough, or exciting enough, or tragic enough, or emotional enough...so they had to get a bit creative.

But Davan knows facts. To be honest, this isn't just about Davan, probably a nice guy, maybe so. But when you rip people like this you need to be accountable for it or you will keep doing it.

I have done so and changed my tune. An ass ripping sometimes changes a person. Sometimes other people learn from it. I ain't gonna solve evreything. But damnit people please look in the frickin' mirror and ask yourself how you would feel.

I almost got kicked out of William and Mary for an absurd incident once...would have been out on my ass. One guy of 15 stood up like a man and said I had nothing to do with it (which was the truth)...thank God. If he hadn't I had already been called before all the Deans...no BS that's scary. They told me he spoke up. Maybe I don't know what it feels like to run 9.77, but I know what ity feels like to be falsely accused.

Peace
That's not why I'm saying let it die. I don't disagree with you... I'm saying let it die. Be the bigger man and walk away from this petty little fight.

[homeless]

That's not why I'm saying let it die. I don't disagree with you... I'm saying let it die. Be the bigger man and walk away from this petty little fight.
took it to a positive thread ;)

[sjm1368]

wow, I just read some of this thread....and it's kinda sad. I feel sorry for Davan and his incredible skepticism.

Without getting in an argument about names, etc. based on my knowledge of the athletes,sport, coaches, etc. there have been guys who have run sub 9.9 clean and many of davan claims are unsubstantiated.

[homeless]

wow, I just read some of this thread....and it's kinda sad. I feel sorry for Davan and his incredible skepticism.

Without getting in an argument about names, etc. based on my knowledge of the athletes,sport, coaches, etc. there have been guys who have run sub 9.9 clean and many of davan claims are unsubstantiated.
Not looking for support, but your site is my #2 bookmark ;)

[remiks]

And colonials--I wasn't until people started responding to what I had said with more stupid **** and I actually thought I could convince people not to be so naive, but that isn't possible I suppose.
I didn't know we weren't allowed to ask people to elaborate on things. Don't see how asking you a simple question is "stupid ****", but whatever.

[Joe Lanzalotto]

And colonials--I wasn't until people started responding to what I had said with more stupid **** and I actually thought I could convince people not to be so naive, but that isn't possible I suppose.

Don't you get it? You're NOT the holder and protector of all truth.

[Sydney Dean]

I have a lot of trouble taking anything davan says seriously. Also, there is no way, and I mean NO WAY, he will ever admit that he is wrong about anything. You could have the world's leading experts, a poll that shows 100% of everybody else in the world disagrees with him, scientific evidence proving him to be conclusively wrong, and God himself coming down and saying "davan, you are wrong"....and he would STILL claim to be correct. Remember, this is the same guy who INSISTED, with not one single bit of proof and an absolute truckload of proof against him, that the 400m Hurdles is closer to the 800m than it is to the 400m (yes, you read that right; he actually said that). He also said that the main reason people want Jeremy Wariner to move up to the 800m was because he's white, then went onto be proved completely wrong and even put up a bunch of "evidence" that further proved him wrong. This is the same guy who also said that Marita Koch, "didn't do so hot in the 100m." Yes, Marita Koch, the lday who ran 10.83 (from 1983, which, 23 years later, is still the 14th fastest of all time). When the World Record was 10.88, Marita Koch ran her 10.83, but was beaten by Evelyn Ashford, who ran 10.81. Apparently all those credentials, to davan, means that Koch "didn't do so hot in the 100m." The guy has some track knowledge, but is probably the worst guy at actually backing up an argument that I have ever seen on Dyestat.

[homeless]

if youn enjoyed the original, now that DA has read it, go see the edited version :D nothing but good clean fun

[homeless]

let's make clear the difference between you and I Davan...we all have said stupid things on here...especially Joe...but I either apologize and/or learn from them...in any case, in the current situation, I would have at least been man enough to try to retort and then add at the end:

"But good luck with your sis"

Did you bring her up? No, I did. Because you ripped the most important spokesperson there is to millions...because you don't necessarily have all the information, but are evidently smarter than everyone else.

But that's just the point. 5 feet beyond you bro. There's a world with people that don't need your judgement. I'm not asking.

Personally I just would have been man enough to have said it. Good luck with the mirror. Millions are looking back at you.

But that's me.

PS- Stay behind your vague screen name dude. Might not wanna show up to any USATF tours with Davan as your nametag. Never know who reads this that was on your list.

[Joe Lanzalotto]

let's make clear the difference between you and I Davan...we all have said stupid things on here...especially Joe...but I either apologize and/or learn from them...in any case, in the current situation, I would have at least been man enough to try to retort and then add at the end:

"But good luck with your sis"

Did you bring her up? No, I did. Because you ripped the most important spokesperson there is to millions...because you don't necessarily have all the information, but are evidently smarter than everyone else.

But that's just the point. 5 feet beyond you bro. There's a world with people that don't need your judgement. I'm not asking.

Personally I just would have been man enough to have said it. Good luck with the mirror. Millions are looking back at you.

But that's me.

PS- Stay behind your vague screen name dude. Might not wanna show up to any USATF tours with Davan as your nametag. Never know who reads this that was on your list.

LMAO

Thank you for apologizing for the many stupid things I said....I believe one of them might have been refering to you as my friend:p .

Oh, BTW, "Homeless" is somehow NOT a vague screen name?:p

[KevinM]

The most recent, big time NCAA sprinter to test positive was from Brauman's group just a year before.


Aren't you referring to Steve Mullings? The same Steve Mullings whose positive A test you attribute to Asafa Powell? Clarify, please.

[homeless]

LMAO

Thank you for apologizing for the many stupid things I said....I believe one of them might have been refering to you as my friend:p .

Oh, BTW, "Homeless" is somehow NOT a vague screen name?:p
not when the link doesn't say "Homeless"...;) It's not in gray type friend

[homeless]

Aren't you referring to Steve Mullings? The same Steve Mullings whose positive A test you attribute to Asafa Powell? Clarify, please.
lol...he's still rereading his prior posts :D

[fourjz]

Bottom line if Tim comes back he'll run 10.10 tops.:D

[homeless]

Bottom line if Tim comes back he'll run 10.10 tops.:D
graet insight, thanks for contributing

[Anthony]

Homeless, with all due respect, why are you trying to stir the proverbial pot? It isn't hard to see you disagree with Davan in this thread, but all you're doing now is hurling character insults. Heck, one has to look no further than your signature to see the level you've stooped to. I'm sorry, but I have lost a little respect for you. Doesn't matter who you're disagreeing with, there's no reason to be so venomous about it.

I disagree with Davan too, yes... but there's no reason to take it to this level.

[homeless]

Homeless, with all due respect, why are you trying to stir the proverbial pot? It isn't hard to see you disagree with Davan in this thread, but all you're doing now is hurling character insults. Heck, one has to look no further than your signature to see the level you've stooped to. I'm sorry, but I have lost a little respect for you. Doesn't matter who you're disagreeing with, there's no reason to be so venomous about it.

I disagree with Davan too, yes... but there's no reason to take it to this level.
then you and I disagree about something...there is a point actually...look at the other thread as well. Davan just linked testicular cancer to steroid abuse to implicate Lance...doc kinda corrected him...anyone can disagree...yes, but this thread was started as an interesting thread about Tim Montgomery and within 4 posts Davan started hurling not only insults, but more importantly, accusations left and right. Now he's going after Lance et al. So if he doesn't stop doing so, someone needs to bring this to a point where Steve U does. I'm not saying ban him, I'm saying Steve give an ultimatum about random names thrown around...what he is doing is absolutely defamatory at this point and it's disgusting. I cleaned up my post (if you saw, after listening to friends, for I am reasonable)...but he needs to stop this. If you lost respect for me, so be it. Sad I guess. I won't stand by as he rips everyone in the last 25 years of the sport I love. Make sense?

Peace

[bdaniels]

I'm fair minded with rational requests, so I'll ask. Why? So someone else can start a similar thread the next time someone runs fast? So when another person gets caught we can accuse 45 more. I want this issue done more than you do. Unless there is a reasonable way to stop this though, I'm not walking away. Steve U has said STOP. Steve U has cut threads and through all his good work this crap persists. I've had it. In no way am I going to suggest ********** words are "appropriate", but since the Playground (which I'm pretty sure is attached to Dyestat is rife with all kinds of ridiculous, but at least funny stuff, why on this portion that we call serious do we allow this to persist. I'm all for argument, discourse, etc....don't even care about the insults as much as I care about the 25 names he's dropped casually and the fact he can't even keep his story straight while doing so.

This has to end. Not because I want it. I'm nobody. But because we as a sport need it. This is not the solution. I think I said Gatlin can go to hell on here (hope you can and are reading Justin, I was a big fan; called my dad at Penn when I saw you on the backstraight for UT- said I just saw the next Olympic Champ...many years before). My dad's National Champ ran for UT, coaches now at a bigtime place. She graduated HS in 86'. She and UT are awesome. But they have to have HS kids reading what this smack says is "truth".

Come on. There was a 9/11 special on for two nights that was FICTIONAL...they admitted it. Evidently 9/11 wasn't scary enough, or sexy enough, or exciting enough, or tragic enough, or emotional enough...so they had to get a bit creative.

But Davan knows facts. To be honest, this isn't just about Davan, probably a nice guy, maybe so. But when you rip people like this you need to be accountable for it or you will keep doing it.

I have done so and changed my tune. An ass ripping sometimes changes a person. Sometimes other people learn from it. I ain't gonna solve evreything. But damnit people please look in the frickin' mirror and ask yourself how you would feel.

I almost got kicked out of William and Mary for an absurd incident once...would have been out on my ass. One guy of 15 stood up like a man and said I had nothing to do with it (which was the truth)...thank God. If he hadn't I had already been called before all the Deans...no BS that's scary. They told me he spoke up. Maybe I don't know what it feels like to run 9.77, but I know what ity feels like to be falsely accused.

Peace

http://ww2.clarkston.k12.mi.us/images/ace/8938/ace_680354854_1144407689.gif

bd

[homeless]

http://ww2.clarkston.k12.mi.us/images/ace/8938/ace_680354854_1144407689.gif

bd
awesome bd...I acknowledged funny...also stayed away lol...how you doing :D

[78Champ]

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/trackandfield/news/story?id=2587542

Probably cycling in the next round.

JW

[homeless]

she will now retire