Bay State League

[shabbyshooby22]

mcrun is hella young and warrior is hella old :( :confused:

you do realize who warrior is, right? therefore, you must realize that he doesn't exactly fancy nn kids as is.

[clifbar]

you do realize who warrior is, right? therefore, you must realize that he doesn't exactly fancy nn kids as is.I think a better question would be do you realize who Smitty is? If so, there's absolutely no reason for you to have asked that.

[trackat8]

I think a better question would be do you realize who Smitty is? If so, there's absolutely no reason for you to have asked that.

don't be hating on smittens.if thats really waht your doing idk im confused

[clifbar]

don't be hating on smittens.if thats really waht your doing idk im confusedI'm "hating on" the person who asked Smitty if he knew who Warrior is. I <3 "Smittens"

[Smitty]

<3 Clifbar

<3 Twackat

[hayesc]

<3 Twackat

-cka

[Iron Man]

Afterall, Smitty is a jewel in the rough.

[GRRXC55]

So who was the winner for the girls Natick/Weymouth meet yesterday? Natick was celebrating their victory yesterday, but the results say Weymouth won ??

[mcrun33]

So who was the winner for the girls Natick/Weymouth meet yesterday? Natick was celebrating their victory yesterday, but the results say Weymouth won ??

HJ results posted incorrectly... Natick won 44-42

[The Dark Horse]

HJ results posted incorrectly... Natick won 44-42

weymouth girls lost :(

[Smitty]

Top 10 in each event (from league competition). Any ideas for Wednesday?

55
1 Eric Wornum SR Milton 6.59 2
2 Michael Bennett JR Brookline 6.72 2
3 Nate Starling SR Braintree 6.79 5
4 Mike Searcy JR Natick 6.82 5
5 Andre Watson SR Braintree 6.89 5
3 Gordon Forbes SR Newton North 6.89 4
6 Hymlaire Lamisere JR Newton North 6.90 1
8 Paul Connor SO Milton 6.92 1
4 Jamaal Dear SR Wellesley 6.92 1
5 Jim McCormick JR Dedham 6.92 2

300
1 Eric Wornum SR Milton 36.08 2
1 Avery Mitchell SR Newton North 36.65 4
2 Phil Weltman JR Dedham 36.95 4
4 Paul Connor SO Milton 37.11 1
5 Michael Bennett JR Brookline 37.33 2
3 David Kamara SR Wellesley 37.42 1
4 Matt Hohmann SR Weymouth 37.77 1
6 Nick Tabak JR Weymouth 37.96 5
6 Josh Hatchett SR Framingham 37.97 4
4 Matthew Stewart SR Brookline 38.06 3

600
1 Matthew Stewart SR Brookline 1:25.54
1 Robert Gibson JR Brookline 1:26.81
1 Andrew Wagner SR Wellesley 1:27.19
3 Anthony Baker SR Brookline 1:28.16
2 Chris Stack SR Braintree 1:28.45
4 Alexander Lee SR Newton North 1:28.84
3 Peter Sun SR Newton North 1:29.53
4 Shane Setalsingh JR Milton 1:29.89
4 Chris Briggs SR Weymouth 1:30.28
3 Phil Weltman JR Dedham 1:30.33

1000
1 Matthew Stewart SR Brookline 2:39.39
2 Tom Mayell SR Wellesley 2:39.75
1 Robert Gibson JR Brookline 2:40.40
2 Tom Mayell SR Wellesley 2:41.58
1 Seb Putzeys JR Newton North 2:42.21
2 Kevin Manning SR Milton 2:42.33
3 Chris Stack SR Braintree 2:42.78
3 Anthony Baker SR Brookline 2:43.63
4 Chris Mercurio JR Brookline 2:43.72
2 Mark Jordan SR Weymouth 2:44.62

Mile
1 Tom Mayell SR Wellesley 4:27.35
1 Robert Gibson JR Brookline 4:34.76
1 Seb Putzeys JR Newton North 4:36.90
2 Dan Pope SR Weymouth 4:40.64
3 Kyle Higgins JR Braintree 4:41.06
3 Michael Burnstein JR Brookline 4:41.21
1 Chris Stack SR Braintree 4:41.60
2 Mark Jordan SR Weymouth 4:41.84
2 Sam Miller Jr Needham 4:42.47
3 Jerzy Eisenberg-Guyot SR Brookline 4:43.39

2 Mile
1 Sam Miller Jr Needham 10:05.76
2 Craig Myers SR Weymouth 10:06.23
1 Jerzy Eisenberg-Guyot SR Brookline 10:09.05
2 William Volkman SO Wellesley 10:12.26
1 Tom Mayell SR Wellesley 10:14.24
3 Robert Gibson JR Brookline 10:22.41
4 Steiner Van der Meeren JR Wellesley 10:24.80
3 Michael Burnstein JR Brookline 10:25.66
5 Ryan Connors SR Milton 10:31.96
4 Dan Pope SR Weymouth 10:30.63

55h
1 Nate Starling SR Braintree 8.29 5
2 Chris Moore SR Milton 8.31 1
2 Brett Epler SR Wellesley 8.41 2
1 Theo McCummings JR Natick 8.42 3
1 Dylan Zukowski SR Weymouth 8.44 1
2 Jordan Maddocks SR Framingham 8.49 1
4 James Barrett SO Natick 8.58 3
4 Ryan McCarthy SR Newton North 8.64 1
4 Chris Moore SR Milton 8.64 6
6 Redmond Zmudzien SR Braintree 8.69 5

HJ
1 Jordan Maddocks SR Framingham 6-09.00
2 Aaron Everette SR Framingham 6-05.00
2 Alex Lippincott JR Brookline 6-03.00
1 Alex Shirley SR Wellesley 6-01.00
3 Samuel Arsenault SO Newton North 5-11.00
3 Bobby Fitzgibbon SO Walpole 5-11.00
3 Marcus Kohlman SR Milton 5-11.00
3 Aaron Everette SR Framingham 5-11.00
3 Drew Borland SR Natick 5-11.00
4 Curtis Johnson Jr Needham 5-09.00
6 Paul Kosakowski SR Braintree 5-09.00
3 Phil Weltman JR Dedham 5-09.00
2 James Endres SR Weymouth J5-09.00

LJ
1 James Endres SR Weymouth 20-05.25
1 Gordon Forbes SR Newton North 20-02.75
2 Ivan Kostadinov JR Newton North 19-08.25
3 Adam Bao JR Newton North 19-02.75
3 Brett Epler SR Wellesley 18-11.50
4 Dylan Zukowski SR Weymouth 18-10.00
4 Matt Hohmann SR Weymouth 18-09.25
6 Samuel Arsenault SO Newton North 18-08.25
6 Michael Bennett JR Brookline 18-03.75
7 Alex Lippincott JR Brookline 18-01.50
1 Greg Lew JR Brookline 18-01.00


Shot
1 David Smith SR Newton North 56-01.00
2 Dan Withrow SR Dedham 54-10.50
3 Marvin Chan SR Newton North 47-04.00
4 Steve Long JR Newton North 45-01.50
4 Adam Childress SR Natick 44-09.00
4 Russell Hynes SR Dedham 43-02.50
4 Samuel Stone SO Wellesley 43-00.00
5 Nick Haddad SR Natick 42-07.00
5 Dan Donovan SR Walpole 42-06.50
6 Dave Devaney SR Natick 42-03.50

[mcrun33]

From Saturday's meet:

1 1341 DeAmicis, Alex 12 WELLESLEY 7.61Q 2
14 1419 Sullivan, Kayla 10 WEYMOUTH 7.78q 11
4 344 Farrell, Madison 11 DEDHAM 43.08 20
13 1406 Bennett, Sam 10 WEYMOUTH 43.57 21
17 1408 Butler, Lindsey 12 WEYMOUTH 43.85 18
24 230 Benton, Asia 12 BROOKLINE 44.14 12
27 1415 McCarthy, Sarah 10 WEYMOUTH 5:41.69
22 1345 Griswold, Ali 10 WELLESLEY 12:21.32
25 233 Groopman, Emily 09 BROOKLINE 12:26.57
1 1359 Pratt, Katie 12 WELLESLEY 1:40.19
4 1346 Heyison, Caila 12 WELLESLEY 1:40.87
5 1410 Connolly, Carolyn 10 WEYMOUTH 1:41.64
3 1418 Sacchetti, Sam 12 WEYMOUTH 3:07.08
4 1302 Papirio, Jess 11 WALPOLE 3:09.33
3 912 Faer, Morgan 12 NEWTON NORTH 9.29
4 1349 King, Abby 11 WELLESLEY 9.29
8 833 Tran, Cheryl 10 MILTON J5-01.00
5 922 Sanchez, Ari 10 NEWTON NORTH 15-10.00
16 1420 Taylor, Theresa 12 WEYMOUTH 14-11.75
23 1362 West, Wendy 10 WELLESLEY 30-05.00


9 874 Manning, Kevin 12 MILTON 4:37.78
11 1445 Jordan, Mark 12 WEYMOUTH 4:39.25
12 192 Higgins, Kyle 11 BRAINTREE 4:39.31
8 904 Miller, Sam 11 NEEDHAM 9:58.94
4 235 Baker, Anthony 12 BROOKLINE 1:25.90
4 1397 Van der Meeren, St 11 WELLESLEY 2:42.49
4 875 Moore, Chris 12 MILTON 8.24
7 1450 Zukowski, Dylan 12 WEYMOUTH 8.35
3 475 Everette, Aaron 12 FRAMINGHAM J6-01.00


Overall a pretty fast day, for the non-elite meet. Interested to see how some of the faster times stack up to Sundays.

[Mercury08]

20 Hardiman, Ryan 10 BROOKLINE 4:43.25

4:43 and 10:13 hes turining into quite the little mike burnstein. i better watch my back

EDIT: congrats to sam miller nice time.

[MillerTime6262]

20 Hardiman, Ryan 10 BROOKLINE 4:43.25

4:43 and 10:13 hes turining into quite the little mike burnstein. i better watch my back

EDIT: congrats to sam miller nice time.

haha thanks man. and QFE, Hardiman is an animal.

[clifbar]

Congrats to Putzeys, 4:31 today!

[The Dark Horse]

Congrats to Putzeys, 4:31 today!

QFE :eek:

[kang6789]

Results from today from Brookline

First heat of 2 mile
Jerzy 9:53.6

600m
Stewart 1:24-- a lot of pushing and shoving

55m
Mike Bennett 6.64:cool:

Second Heat of 2 mile
Gibson 9:26.7
Burnstein 9:53.5

[MillerTime6262]

Results from today from Brookline

First heat of 2 mile
Jerzy 9:53.6

600m
Stewart 1:24-- a lot of pushing and shoving

55m
Mike Bennett 6.64:cool:

Second Heat of 2 mile
Gibson 9:26.7
Burnstein 9:53.5

Nice job Bline.

[Weezy]

Top 10 in each event (from league competition). Any ideas for Wednesday?

300
1 Eric Wornum SR Milton 36.08 2
1 Avery Mitchell SR Newton North 36.65 4
2 Phil Weltman JR Dedham 36.95 4


weltman 36.35 with competition today

if wornum runs 300...... 3 under 36?

[Smitty]

weltman 36.35 with competition today

if wornum runs 300...... 3 under 36?

Let's not force it...

[AzN at LARGE]

7 Zampi, Mike FR Rpi 2:39.40
32 Foote, Thomas SO Amherst 1:26.79
24 93 Ruvido, Joe FR Brandeis 4:45.52
2 O'Day, Chris Assumption 2:02.17 8
10 Beard, Chaz Westfield St 9:21.56 (3000m)
12 Zarakhovski, Roman SO Umd 12.87m 42-02.75

[The Dark Horse]

7 Zampi, Mike FR Rpi 2:39.40
32 Foote, Thomas SO Amherst 1:26.79
24 93 Ruvido, Joe FR Brandeis 4:45.52
2 O'Day, Chris Assumption 2:02.17 8
10 Beard, Chaz Westfield St 9:21.56 (3000m)
12 Zarakhovski, Roman SO Umd 12.87m 42-02.75

where were all these run????

[AzN at LARGE]

where were all these run????

I just pulled the results from a bunch of different meets.

[Smitty]

Hey Framingham, I noticed you guys have a camera pointing at the high jump up during the meet. Is it on all the time, or just when your guys are up? If it's up all the time I would love a copy from the inter-divisional meets last Thursday.

[kang6789]

Any predictions for the league meet? I know its hard to guess where people will run.
My predicitions (with some people in multiple events depending on where they run) They look particularily Brookline-sided because Gibson and Stewart could win multiple events but will only be in one

55- 1. Wornum 2. Bennett

300m- 1. Wornum 2. Mitchell

600m- 1. Stewart 2. Baker or Wagner (sp?)

1000m- 1. Should be a great race- If Stewart, Gibson, Mayell, and Stack race

Mile- 1. Gibson 2. Mayell 3. Putzeys 4. Jordan, Manning, Pope, Burnstein, Eisenberg, Hardiman, Miller

2 Mile- 1. Gibson 2. Eisenberg, Burnstein, Miller 3. Meyers

[burnstein]

Any predictions for the league meet? I know its hard to guess where people will run.
My predicitions (with some people in multiple events depending on where they run) They look particularily Brookline-sided because Gibson and Stewart could win multiple events but will only be in one

55- 1. Wornum 2. Bennett

300m- 1. Wornum 2. Mitchell

600m- 1. Stewart 2. Baker or Wagner (sp?)

1000m- 1. Should be a great race- If Stewart, Gibson, Mayell, and Stack race

Mile- 1. Gibson 2. Mayell 3. Putzeys 4. Jordan, Manning, Pope, Burnstein, Eisenberg, Hardiman, Miller

2 Mile- 1. Gibson 2. Eisenberg, Burnstein, Miller 3. Meyers

Stack should be up there in the mile

other than that keep up the good work

[The Dark Horse]

3. Meyers

His name I think is spelled "Myers" (wey) if that's who you mean.

I just pulled the results from a bunch of different meets.

ah...

[Weezy]

Any predictions for the league meet? I know its hard to guess where people will run.
My predicitions (with some people in multiple events depending on where they run) They look particularily Brookline-sided because Gibson and Stewart could win multiple events but will only be in one

55- 1. Wornum 2. Bennett

300m- 1. Wornum 2. Mitchell

600m- 1. Stewart 2. Baker or Wagner (sp?)

1000m- 1. Should be a great race- If Stewart, Gibson, Mayell, and Stack race

Mile- 1. Gibson 2. Mayell 3. Putzeys 4. Jordan, Manning, Pope, Burnstein, Eisenberg, Hardiman, Miller

2 Mile- 1. Gibson 2. Eisenberg, Burnstein, Miller 3. Meyers


i like forbes in the 55 over bennett

edit: after wornum of course

[RicciRunForFun]

Stack should be up there in the mile

other than that keep up the good work O look at that Jerzy put himself before you Burnstein

[kang6789]

Not really, I meant that 2nd place could be any of us- too close to tell
:)

[Mercury08]

I'm gonna be a bit more decisive on the two mile predictions

2 Mile- 1. Gibson 2. Burnstein, 3. miller 4. Jerzy.

[MillerTime6262]

I'm gonna be a bit more decisive on the two mile predictions

2 Mile- 1. Gibson 2. Burnstein, 3. miller 4. Jerzy.

Are all three of you guys running the deuce?

[kang6789]

Nope

[burnstein]

I'm gonna be a bit more decisive on the two mile predictions

2 Mile- 1. Gibson 2. Burnstein, 3. miller 4. Jerzy.

I'm pretty sure Jerzy ran 5 seconds faster than miller last weekend


should be a close race though

[MATrailRunner]

I'm pretty sure Jerzy ran 5 seconds faster than miller last weekend


should be a close race though

Pretty sure? Is there any doubt? Just because someone ran 5 seconds better then someone else in a different race last week, doesn't mean that the kid who ran faster would have won head to head. That's why we run the races.

[burnstein]

Pretty sure? Is there any doubt? Just because someone ran 5 seconds better then someone else in a different race last week, doesn't mean that the kid who ran faster would have won head to head. That's why we run the races.

I'm pretty sure Jerzy ran 5 seconds faster than miller last weekend

I am pretty sure, and no, there is no doubt that jerzy did run 5 seconds faster than miller last weekend. I was only pointing out their recent race results. I wasn't saying that miller would lose by 5 seconds.

[MATrailRunner]

I am pretty sure, and no, there is no doubt that jerzy did run 5 seconds faster than miller last weekend. I was only pointing out their recent race results. I wasn't saying that miller would lose by 5 seconds.

In context, you made it seem as if Miller didn't have a chance against your teammate since your teammate ran 5 seconds faster in a different race.

[burnstein]

In context, you made it seem as if Miller didn't have a chance against your teammate since your teammate ran 5 seconds faster in a different race.

That's not true because if you read my WHOLE post i said it should be a close race. I was only questioning mercury08's predicted order. To end any confusion I think it is anyone's race between jerzy and miller, but if I were to put them in order it would go jerzy, then miller.

Are any teams running a 4x8?

[MATrailRunner]

That's not true because if you read my WHOLE post i said it should be a close race. I was only questioning mercury08's predicted order. To end any confusion I think it is anyone's race between jerzy and miller, but if I were to put them in order it would go jerzy, then miller.

Are any teams running a 4x8?

You would go with Jerzy, then Miller. Mercurio would not. It was his prediction, and I'm sure he's aware that Jerzy ran faster then Miller. And I did read your whole post.

[MillerTime6262]

hate to break it to you guys but I'm in the mile.

[burnstein]

You would go with Jerzy, then Miller. Mercurio would not. It was his prediction, and I'm sure he's aware that Jerzy ran faster then Miller. And I did read your whole post.

I wasn't saying mercury08's predictions were wong, I was only questioning them. I am curious at his reasoning for choosing his order.


I'm in the mile too!

[Mercury08]

I wasn't saying mercury08's predictions were wong, I was only questioning them. I am curious at his reasoning for choosing his order.


I'm in the mile too!

i know im kinda beating a dead horse here but my reasoning was that I think it will be a slower more tactical race and I think miller will sit and can outkick jerzy, now that i know hes in the mile it doesnt make a difference. but ONE THING IS FOR SURE....pope would smoke all u fools

[MillerTime6262]

pope would smoke all u fools


QFE

[DSTrack255]

hate to break it to you guys but I'm in the mile.

why would you let that top secret information out?

[MillerTime6262]

why would you let that top secret information out?

I couldn't stand idly by while MATrailRunner and Burnstein unnecessarily quarreled over something

[kang6789]

Watching Miller and I trying to outkick would be a very funny and sad sight to see (no offense but you (miller) always make fun of your kick).

[MillerTime6262]

Watching Miller and I trying to outkick would be a very funny and sad sight to see (no offense but you (miller) always make fun of your kick).

yeah man my kick is a joke. I've only outkicked someone twice in my life.

[burnstein]

so are spikes allowed tomorrow? or does the no spikes on weekdays rule still apply?

[GRRXC55]

spikes are allowed :rolleyes:

[BrooklineMiler]

Good luck Brookline boys.... and Miller.

[AzN at LARGE]

Good luck Brookline boys.... and Miller.

Haha, love it.

[Mercury08]

league meet was pretty sweet i left early but the highlights from the beggining were definately seb winning a crazy mile race with one shoe and the 1000 between Gibson and Stewart who "tied" in 2:33.02. (pope actually won the race but he was so fast you couldnt see him)


how did the two mile go???

[clifbar]

league meet was pretty sweet i left early but the highlights from the beggining were definately seb winning a crazy mile race with one shoe :eek: time?

[MillerTime6262]

The mile was nuts. It went Seb, Stack, Higgins, Burnstein, me, and then Meyers. With two laps to go, Stack flat tired Seb and he kicked off his left shoe. Before that, Stack fell down, and I leap frogged over him but was significantly slowed down. Somehow, I ended up with scratches on my face and quad. And of course, what race would be complete without Mike Burnstein outkicking me in the final 15 meters. S***show.

[MillerTime6262]

how did the two mile go???

Jerzy won easily.

[AzN at LARGE]

And of course, what race would be complete without Mike Burnstein outkicking me in the final 15 meters. S***show.
Hahaha.

[trackat8]

The mile was nuts. It went Seb, Stack, Higgins, Burnstein, me, and then Meyers. With two laps to go, Stack flat tired Seb and he kicked off his left shoe. Before that, Stack fell down, and I leap frogged over him but was significantly slowed down. Somehow, I ended up with scratches on my face and quad. And of course, what race would be complete without Mike Burnstein outkicking me in the final 15 meters. S***show.

not only was the guy's mile insane, but the girls mile was too..JESS BARTON is a freaking beast. she got the league record and teh state best mile time with 4:57 i think? BEASTT.

[DSTrack255]

yayyy Jess!!!! thats awesome:)

[MillerTime6262]

Good luck Brookline boys.... and Miller.

Thanks man.

[RicciRunForFun]

Stewart and Gibson for the tie

[Mercury08]

Stewart and Gibson for the tie

they gave gibson the edge which is good because i had 50 cents riding on him but from watching it from the finish line i think that gibson had his head there first but stew had his chest across the line before gibson. thats just my opinion tho.

[RicciRunForFun]

they gave gibson the edge which is good because i had 50 cents riding on him but from watching it from the finish line i think that gibson had his head there first but stew had his chest across the line before gibson. thats just my opinion tho.
Yeh if Gibson got his head over the line before Stewart got his chest then Gibson got it

[Smitty]

I always thought it was whoever's chest broke the plane first won?

[Professor Plum]

I always thought it was whoever's chest broke the plane first won?
You are correct. But if this was done electronically, I would suspect both of them got their chest across at the same time (to the hundreth of a second, anyways.)

[burnstein]

You are correct. But if this was done electronically, I would suspect both of them got their chest across at the same time (to the hundreth of a second, anyways.)

I'm confused. did Gibson win because his name is first in the results, or is it a tie?

[jim]

I'm confused. did Gibson win because his name is first in the results, or is it a tie?

Though the print out only shows two decimal places, the computer can actually time them to three places. It looks like Gibson's third decimal may be less than Stewart's.

[Warrior]

I'm confused. did Gibson win because his name is first in the results, or is it a tie?

You are confused.

[RicciRunForFun]

Who gets the Gold medal Gibson or Stewart

[ILovePinkGloves]

Just give the win to Pope, solves all the controversy and he clearly deserves it

[mcrun33]

You are confused.

Brookline 1, Weymouth 0

First ever 145m run is won by Brookline

Ready for the 1 mile in spring?

[Warrior]

It's on. I'll start training today. 2nd meet of spring Weymouth v. Brookline @ Brookline week of 4/9.

[Warrior]

Congrats to all the participants and a big Thanks to Coach Snyder and the Milton folks for putting on a great meet.

Big props to Nick Perry for winning the mile, Dave "Dreamer" Meyers the 2 mile and frosh Brendan Grove the 1000.

[mcrun33]

It's on. I'll start training today. 2nd meet of spring Weymouth v. Brookline @ Brookline week of 4/9.

I'm not holding up a bus full of kids to watch one old man and one slightly less old man run a 7:30 mile.

[Mercury08]

Just give the win to Pope, solves all the controversy and he clearly deserves it

QFE

[Mercury08]

I'm not holding up a bus full of kids to watch one old man and one slightly less old man run a 7:30 mile.

well if it happens i will be video taping and posting it on dyestat.
ill put money on mcrun tho i remember running by him during the half marathon and seeing warrior drive by on a pickup with his gut hangin out.

[DSTrack255]

mcrun adn warrior are best friends. they dont race each other, they run together.

[The Dark Horse]

Stewart and Gibson for the tie

gibson won by some fraction of a millisecond that the computer will not show on the scoreboard.

well if it happens i will be video taping and posting it on dyestat.
ill put money on mcrun tho i remember running by him during the half marathon and seeing warrior drive by on a pickup with his gut hangin out.

QFE:D :D

mcrun adn warrior are best friends. they dont race each other, they run together.

i highly doubt it... but who cares

[Smitty]

mcrun adn warrior are best friends. they dont race each other, they run together.

Wait I really am so confused. I legit thought mcrun was a girl from Weymouth who graduated recently :confused: :confused: :confused:

[OMGItzWang!]

Wait I really am so confused. I legit thought mcrun was a girl from Weymouth who graduated recently :confused: :confused: :confused:

she isnt?

[Professor Plum]

I'm not holding up a bus full of kids to watch one old man and one slightly less old man run a 7:30 mile.

This is what I think it is right? A race involving Glennon and a Weymouth coach. I would like to see this happen and I think others would as well.

[Warrior]

well if it happens i will be video taping and posting it on dyestat.
ill put money on mcrun tho i remember running by him during the half marathon and seeing warrior drive by on a pickup with his gut hangin out.

This from the youngster who pullled. Thanks for the support.

Maybe we should make this a pay-per-view challenge race?

[bcal92]

The class of the BSC right now is the Wellesley coach - Mark Mayall - AKA
"Old Fart"

Here is his second place finish from the Paddy McDrunken-Irishman race yesterday - a five-miler!!

211 26:20 Mark Mayall M 30 39

Pretty impressive!

[Crouching tiger]

The class of the BSC right now is the Wellesley coach - Mark Mayall - AKA
"Old Fart"

Here is his second place finish from the Paddy McDrunken-Irishman race yesterday - a five-miler!!

211 26:20 Mark Mayall M 30 39

Pretty impressive!


i think one of the Newton North coaches might offer some competition. :D

[mcrun33]

i think one of the Newton North coaches might offer some competition. :D

Kyle Fredericks from Braintree is also a pretty strong runner right now (I think in the high 17's for 5K), but nothing like Waldron from NN. If you want to go old school, Milton's boys asst. coach ran a 2:09 marathon in 1979 (as Bill Rodgers training partner)

[Old fart]

The class of the BSC right now is the Wellesley coach - Mark Mayall - AKA
"Old Fart"

Here is his second place finish from the Paddy McDrunken-Irishman race yesterday - a five-miler!!

211 26:20 Mark Mayall M 30 39

Pretty impressive!

You're too kind Bill...I think.

The five miler yesterday was planned as a tempo but I had to run 10 sec/mile faster than I would have liked just to win my age group. Casey Moulton showed up from NH, ran 24:40, and took the winner's gift certificate I had been eyeing. Last year the same race was won in 27:30!

My "real" race from the past weekend was a 3k Friday afternoon at BU...

83 Mayall, Mark New Balance 8:48.66

Of the 165 finishers in this event, 82 finished ahead of me and 82 finished behind. If that isn't mediocre I don't know what is. My 4 meet indoor season (take note kids, you all race WAY too much) will end this weekend at the USATF-NE meet where I'll be taking aim at the mythical 15 minute barrier in the 5k. Again, mediocre.

If Crouching Tiger is referring to Waldron, I'm a bit faster than him right now but that's mostly due to the fact that he's at least a decade older than me. If I'm running at all when I reach his age I'd be happy to be putting up the numbers he does.

[Bear Cage]

If you want to go old school, Milton's boys asst. coach ran a 2:09 marathon in 1979 (as Bill Rodgers training partner)

wasn't that time a 2:14?

[trackat8]

i think one of the Newton North coaches might offer some competition. :D

who are you? please tell me at least before i graduate north.

[mcrun33]

wasn't that time a 2:14?

Well, 2:14 in that race, but a marathon PR of 2:09. Still neither are too bad.

[Instride]

. If you want to go old school, Milton's boys asst. coach ran a 2:09 marathon in 1979 (as Bill Rodgers training partner)

Rodgers ran 2:09. Dickie (Milton asst. coach) ran 2:14, which is no slouch of a time itself. I remember when I first moved to Weymouth. I was fresh off of a 30:26 10K and running a local town race in Weymouth. I figured it would be a "stroll in the park" 10K for me. I went out the first mile in 5:00 and somebody is with me. I figure he'll be gone by 2. At 2, we go through in 9:58. He's still there. 3 in under 15 and he's cool as a cucumber. He then drops me with a 4:45 4th mile on his way to the 10K victory. It was Dickie. He was quite a runner in his day.

[Warrior]

To be clear - don't anyone think that mcrun or my running should be mentioned with any of the times posted by many of the other BSC coaches. Most of the running resumes of the other coaches I know are far superior to mine - from Coach Milld's of Dedham who was quite prolific on the roads at one time to the track times of Coach Blackburn at Villanova. Hey Coach Martin used to regularly kill me on runs while I was in high school.
Our little competition is for the slow division - at least speaking for myself. It has led me to actually run the last three days. Everyone needs to find their own inspiration.
Good luck to everyone this weekend. Looks like the BSC will have alot of scorers.

[Mercury08]

dont forget coach mann (brookline girls coach)
http://www.bridgew.edu/athletics/halloffame/1998Mann.cfm

[D_Pope]

I say that both teams gather up some money, and whomever wins the race gets it all. that way, there is a reason to hold up the bus (mcrun's complaint) and there is motivation to actually win.

[The Dark Horse]

Good luck to everyone this weekend. Looks like the BSC will have alot of scorers.

QFE

On friday, sam miller and jerzy eisenberg-guyot's race should be quite interesting with each of them having [at least] 2 state qualifying 2-mile races (assuming they run the duce). Gibson will be absolutely beastly in whatever event he runs in.:D
but what i'm most interested in is what tom mayell will do. he's got a 4:24 under his belt (once again assuming he runs the mile).:confused:

[mcrun33]

QFE

On friday, sam miller and jerzy eisenberg-guyot's race should be quite interesting with each of them having [at least] 2 state qualifying 2-mile races (assuming they run the duce). Gibson will be absolutely beastly in whatever event he runs in.:D
but what i'm most interested in is what tom mayell will do. he's got a 4:24 under his belt (once again assuming he runs the mile).:confused:

You know the seeds for all races have been posted right?

[MillerTime6262]

QFE

On friday, sam miller and jerzy eisenberg-guyot's race should be quite interesting with each of them having [at least] 2 state qualifying 2-mile races (assuming they run the duce). Gibson will be absolutely beastly in whatever event he runs in.:D
but what i'm most interested in is what tom mayell will do. he's got a 4:24 under his belt (once again assuming he runs the mile).:confused:

I'm d2 so i won't be racing Jerzy.

[The Dark Horse]

I'm d2 so i won't be racing Jerzy.

i know that you are in d2, i wasn't grouping it in that way. i meant individually jerzy and you would do well in your specific races.
just a fluency error in my post. :( sorry about that.

[Warrior]

Good to see everyone is making good use of their snow day.

[The Dark Horse]

Good to see everyone is making good use of their snow day.

i'm in school right now... it's my study period and i have no hw to do.

You know the seeds for all races have been posted right?
no, where are they? (post link)

[mcrun33]

I'm d2 so i won't be racing Jerzy.

Well, he's also not running Friday night.

[Smitty]

i'm in school right now... it's my study period

Pwn?

Well, he's also not running Friday night.

:confused: Jerzy = Bline = D1 = Friday???

[OMGItzWang!]

Jerzy = Bline = D1 = Friday???

mcrun was talking about miller who is d2 and running saturday.

[The Dark Horse]

mcrun was talking about miller who is d2 and running saturday.

i see.

[Warrior]

And I was talking about Miller too who had a snow day.

[MillerTime6262]

And I was talking about Miller too who had a snow day.

It was so good.

[You_Are_A_Fish]

I believe that after Feb Vaca, everyone should have a second week of "snow days" off. That would just be amazing. And by the way, are you running tomorrow Dark Horse? If so, what?

[The Dark Horse]

I believe that after Feb Vaca, everyone should have a second week of "snow days" off. That would just be amazing. And by the way, are you running tomorrow Dark Horse? If so, what?

My dearest Danny Pope,

I see you have a second board name. You know darn well that I am in my off-season due to some serious family health problems and a setback from the flu. Because of this, I did not reach my goal of states. You did not reach them as a junior, either.

Good luck to all those running states.....even you Dan!

[OMGItzWang!]

Default rep points hhhmmm...
At the top left hand corner of the dyestat track talk page... click the "User CP" button and see what you find there.

btw I now have 270 rep points from the 253 two days ago so
rep points are a sign of power and influence on dyestat. This means that YOU have very little power.

Don't try responding to this message you'll probably find that you can't... cuz i know how to block your incoming PMs.


A little off topic but this is a private message I got, does anyone even care about rep points? cuz I couldn't care less about them...

[D_Pope]

My dearest Danny Pope,

I see you have a second board name. You know darn well that I am in my off-season due to some serious family health problems and a setback from the flu. Because of this, I did not reach my goal of states. You did not reach them as a junior, either.

Good luck to all those running states.....even you Dan!

Uh, Fish and I are two different people. Know who you are talking to when you make such an inflammatory post. If you resent the fact that you did not make it to states, make your excuses in person. Not on a forum.
Thank you.

[The Dark Horse]

Uh, Fish and I are two different people. Know who you are talking to when you make such an inflammatory post. If you resent the fact that you did not make it to states, make your excuses in person. Not on a forum.
Thank you.

haha nice try... fish = pope
and i admire your bravery for responding :p

[Warrior]

Congrats to all the Bay Staters who advanced to Friday's ALL STAE meet. Big props for all the class winners - Jess Barton, NN girls 4 x 8, Jamie Verner and Mike Searcy of Natick, Tom Mayell and the Wellesley girls 4 x 2, Eric Wornum and the Milton boys 4 x 2, and Phil Weltman of Dedham. Good luck to all.

[Smitty]

You're forgetting someone.

[Warrior]

Sorry for my oversight Dave. It wasn't intentional although maybe I'm still smarting from that hella old comment. Good luck on Friday and take hiome another state championship.

[Smitty]

Good luck to you guys too. Things go your way and you may be looking at another shocker of a state title (not at our expense this year).

[Professor Plum]

5 Manning, Kevin SR Milton 4:31.40 QUAL 2
Thats pretty good running. I don't remember ever seeing him below the mid 4:40s before this, correct me if I'm wrong, but this currently ranks him as the third fastest miler in the league (by pr anyways.)

[Warrior]

Manning raced great last week and had a very solid season. I think the boys distance runners in the league picked it up quite a bit indoor. They'll be a whole group waiting for the Professor when he comes back in the spring.

[Professor Plum]

Manning raced great last week and had a very solid season. I think the boys distance runners in the league picked it yup quite a bit indoor. They'll be a whole group waiting for the Professor when he comes back in the spring.

Haha, I don't think that I was really outside the group before... But yeah hopefully I win a race for the first time this spring.

[burnstein]

good representation of the BSL today!

[MillerTime6262]

good representation of the BSL today!

Beastly race yourself Burnstein.

[Smitty]

7 Searcy, Mike JR Natick 6.66

9 Burnstein, Michael JR Brookline 9:47.45
15 Eisenberg-Guyot, Jerzy SR Brookline 10:00.50

1 Gibson, Robert JR Brookline 4:17.59 10
5 Mayell, Tommy SR Wellesley 4:26.22 2

12 Putzeys, Seb JR Newton North 4:31.78
13 Manning, Kevin SR Milton 4:31.84

2 Wornum, Eric SR Milton 34.77 2 8
11 Weltman, Phil JR Dedham 36.30 4

11 Wagner, Andrew SR Wellesley 1:23.98 3

5 Stewart, Matthew SR Brookline 2:30.00 2

3 Milton HS 1:31.89 4 6

2 Brookline HS 8:06.66 8

1 Maddocks, Jordan SR Framingham 6-07.00 2.00m 10
11 Kohlman, Marcus SR Milton 6-01.00 1.85m
15 Lippincott, Alex JR Brookline 5-11.00 1.80m
22 Shirley, Alex SR Wellesley 5-09.00 1.75m

1 Smith, David SR Newton North 55-08.50 16.97m 10
5 Withrow, Dan SR Dedham 51-09.50 15.78m 2

[OMGItzWang!]

3 Endres, James SR Weymouth 20-10.75

[The Dark Horse]

3 Endres, James SR Weymouth 20-10.75

QFE

[kpot]

6 Kelley, Christina SR Needham 5:17.07

nhs record for christina kelley at all-states

[The Dark Horse]

6 Kelley, Christina SR Needham 5:17.07

nhs record for christina kelley at all-states

kudos to christina for an amazing performance :) .

[kang6789]

What are some people's goals for outdoors?

Mine are:

800-2:03.5
Mile-4:35
2 Mile-9:44

[The Dark Horse]

What are some people's goals for outdoors?

Mine are:



800: 2:09
mile: 4:45
duce: 10:35

[MillerTime6262]

800 2:04
mile 4:35
2 mile 9:48

[burnstein]

2:04
4:35
9:39

[kang6789]

Maybe at the Needham/Brookline meet we can go for that 4:35 together.

[The Dark Horse]

800: 2:09
mile: 4:45
duce: 10:35

do you guys [burnstein :cool: , kang :cool: , and millertime :cool: ] think my goals are rash or sound? I just want an honest opinion .

What i did for my goals was take off about 5 seconds per every 800m off each of my current PRs.

and yes im quoting my own post :eek:

[MillerTime6262]

Maybe at the Needham/Brookline meet we can go for that 4:35 together.

I'm down.

[OMGItzWang!]

do you guys [burnstein :cool: , kang :cool: , and millertime :cool: ] think my goals are rash or sound? I just want an honest opinion .

What i did for my goals was take off about 5 seconds per every 800m off each of my current PRs.

and yes im quoting my own post :eek:


Those goals are reachable if you train smart and work hard in the spring season. Although taking 5 seconds off for each 800m will be hard in the mile/deuce.

[The Dark Horse]

Maybe at the Needham/Brookline meet we can go for that 4:35 together.

don't forget to take pictures so i can see the 4:35 in action :)

Those goals are reachable if you train smart and work hard in the spring season. Although taking 5 seconds off for each 800m will be hard in the mile/deuce.

It is hard but not impossible. especially, when i was sick the whole season, even if i didn't show it. At the end of the season, i had a mild case of bronchitis (i did do my best to conceal that), yet i still almost ran a PR in the duce. I was also on a sleep debt which i have not yet fixed (well... completely!!! I've made significant progress with several 10hr nights).

btw... as a result of this post, i got an aim from someone on my own team saying "excuses are for the weak." hhhmmmm... not very nice.

[OMGItzWang!]

Chillax I wasn't talking about your past season, I was giving you some advice for the spring....

[The Dark Horse]

Chillax I wasn't talking about your past season, I was giving you some advice for the spring....

i know that... so wtf r u talkin' about "chillax"???? :confused:

[OMGItzWang!]

It is hard but not impossible. especially, when i was sick the whole season, even if i didn't show it. At the end of the season, i had a mild case of bronchitis (i did do my best to conceal that), yet i still almost ran a PR in the duce. I was also on a sleep debt which i have not yet fixed (well... completely!!! I've made significant progress with several 10hr nights).

btw... as a result of this post, i got an aim from someone on my own team saying "excuses are for the weak." hhhmmmm... not very nice.

It appeared as though you took my previous post as an insult of some sort...thats all i was saying.....

[Warrior]

do you guys [burnstein :cool: , kang :cool: , and millertime :cool: ] think my goals are rash or sound? I just want an honest opinion .

What i did for my goals was take off about 5 seconds per every 800m off each of my current PRs.

and yes im quoting my own post :eek:

Just those guys or can anyone chime in?

[The Dark Horse]

Just those guys or can anyone chime in?

any opinion is appreciated :)

[mcrun33]

any opinion is appreciated :)

It's tough in Mass to have a huge PR from indoor to outdoor, since outdoor is just an 8-week season. The best way to do it is to train high mileage for the next few weeks, but listen to your body and rest when you need it. Then, during the season, after 4 weeks of threshold training, you can start really focusing on speed work and get a big peak going toward the end. I'd say your only challenge will be having one of each of those races late enough in the season to run them all at your best.

[Professor Plum]

What are some people's goals for outdoors?

Mine are:

800-2:03.5
Mile-4:35
2 Mile-9:44

First off, to stay on the honor role. Secondly, not to get in injury trouble. Aside from that...

My short term goals are:

800 - 2:00
Mile - 4:27
2 Mile - 9:40

If I can accomplish those I will be looking to move up to:

800 - 1:59
Mile - 4:24
2 Mile 9:35

Good luck everyone in accomplishing your goals.

[Smitty]

First off, to stay on the honor role.

Honor roll ;)

[Warrior]

any opinion is appreciated :)

I think your goals are reasonable and can be attained simply by focusing and listening to your coaches. Good luck.

[Mercury08]

im pumped for outdoor
Goals:
2:00
4:35

[burnstein]

im pumped for outdoor
Goals:
2:00
4:35

I personally think you're gonna run some sick times this season: 4:27, and 1:58.

Not to put pressure on you are anything...

[MillerTime6262]

I personally think you're gonna run some sick times this season: 4:27, and 1:58.

I agree. It really sucks your indoor season was cut short.

[Instride]

any opinion is appreciated :)

A goal does not have to be cast in stone. Professor Plum gave you a good idea by showing you a two tier goal. 4:45/ 10:35 is doable but challenging. Why not have an interim goal of 4:50/10:45. Then if I can accomplish this, focus on the original more challenging goal.

A friend of mine who coached the British Olympic team liked to start with the basics. Running is routine, balance, and progression. So, don’t put the proverbial Dark Horse before the cart. First you develop a routine. Get regular sleep, good meals, and a steady base mileage.

Once you have your routine down, you can balance with the right individual mix of workouts that stimulate what physiologist call the Three horsemen of human performance. VO2max, lactate threshold, and running economy.

VO2max is the maximal amount of oxygen an individual can utilize to do work in a given period of time. Your base mileage amount has a strong stimulus on this number and is a strong foundation of any program.

Lactate threshold is the point in exertion where the body's ability to clear lactate becomes less than the rate at which it produced. Scientific studies have shown that is best stimulated by intervals between 1200 meters and 2000 meters in length. The most common error with lactate threshold workouts is that the run pace is done too fast.

Running economy is improved by a variety of factors in varied and complicated ways. The simplest is to do some shorter intervals at goal pace or even a second per 400 meters faster than goal pace.

There is far more to optimum training than what I can summarize in a few lines, but hopefully this will get the horse heading in the right direction.

[The Dark Horse]

Running is routine, balance, and progression. So, don’t put the proverbial Dark Horse before the cart. First you develop a routine. Get regular sleep, good meals, and a steady base mileage.

Once you have your routine down, you can balance with the right individual mix of workouts that stimulate what physiologist call the Three horsemen of human performance. VO2max, lactate threshold, and running economy.

There is far more to optimum training than what I can summarize in a few lines, but hopefully this will get the horse heading in the right direction.

you never fail to amuse me instride :D .

I agree. It really sucks your indoor season was cut short.

QFE

[HighFlyFlyer]

I know no one cares about jumpers, so I'm gonna start caring and ask? What are some of your jumping goals/field event goals...
Mine are:
High Jump: 6'11'' -7' (hopefully)
Triple Jump: 43'
Long Jump: 20'4''

Hurdle Question: Generally, is it harder to qualify for 55m in indoor or 110m in outdoor?

[NSHSDad]

Running economy is improved by a variety of factors in varied and complicated ways. The simplest is to do some shorter intervals at goal pace or even a second per 400 meters faster than goal pace.




Having a good coach will also help running economy. (that probably sounds like a no-brainer, but isn't always the case) The way you swing your arms, stride length, turnover - you train on those things in the shorter intervals - and hopefully have a coach yelling at you when you do something wrong.

[Emil's Ghost]

Having a good coach will also help running economy. (that probably sounds like a no-brainer, but isn't always the case) The way you swing your arms, stride length, turnover - you train on those things in the shorter intervals - and hopefully have a coach yelling at you when you do something wrong.

Having a coach who yells at you when you do something right will help even more.

[j.j.putz]

Good coaches don't need to yell.

[NSHSDad]

Good coaches don't need to yell.

OKOK, "pay attention to you"

Mine yelled at me when I was on the far side of the track, doing endless intervals and it was the only way I could hear him, until he got a megaphone.

[Warrior]

That's all some of us have though.

[mcrun33]

That's all some of us have though.

He said "good coaches"...

Just kidding

[NSHSDad]

What schools do you folks coach for? (PM me if you want to remain incognito).

[clifbar]

He said "good coaches"...

Just kiddinghaha, nice

[Warrior]

What schools do you folks coach for? (PM me if you want to remain incognito).

I don't think we're too incognito. Much like your screen name we're easy to figure out by our posts.

[NSHSDad]

I don't think we're too incognito. Much like your screen name we're easy to figure out by our posts.

Not entirely - I didn't know the "mascot" of Brookline was a Warrier until just now. I have to pay more attention to these things. Half the time, I forget that NS is a lion and NN is a tiger

I'll have to figure out the Weymouth connection. Give me time, I'll get there.

I grew up in Philadelphia, and, although I moved here about 14 years ago, I haven't really been understanding the local high schools until now.

[The Dark Horse]

I'll have to figure out the Weymouth connection. Give me time, I'll get there.

i am not sure there is a connection, please confirm this mcrun33 :confused:

[BrooklineMiler]

Good coaches don't need to yell.

Ive had 2 good coaches ... the both yell thier ass off.

[Instride]

Yelling is a non-factor in whether a coach is good or not. Knowledge, guidance and leadership are important factors that quickly come to mind. This guy had "all the right stuff." He was my coach in College.
http://www.runmaine.org/athleteindex/1999/811DE8A5-5CB1-4D15-B715-C1A0B4844722.html
Coach Bill Squires is another. He coached me on Team SISU. Neither were yellers.

[Instride]

Kudos and congratulations to Smitty for his Indoor New England Championships win in the shot put.

[Winston]

Yelling can definitely motivate someone to run faster though. Whenever my coach yells at me, I get moving.

[Professor Plum]

Yelling is a non-factor in whether a coach is good or not. Knowledge, guidance and leadership are important factors that quickly come to mind. This guy had "all the right stuff." He was my coach in College.
http://www.runmaine.org/athleteindex/1999/811DE8A5-5CB1-4D15-B715-C1A0B4844722.html
Coach Bill Squires is another. He coached me on Team SISU. Neither were yellers.

Bill Squires is the man. End of story.

[Iron Man]

Yelling can definitely motivate someone to run faster though. Whenever my coach yells at me, I get moving.

Why should we listen to what you have to say Mr. I run a 1:56 (right?) then 4:17 like 5minutes later. Clearly your coach doesn't know what he is doing.


I'm obv joking, that was a ballsy performance.

[mcrun33]

Yelling is a non-factor in whether a coach is good or not. Knowledge, guidance and leadership are important factors that quickly come to mind. This guy had "all the right stuff." He was my coach in College.
http://www.runmaine.org/athleteindex/1999/811DE8A5-5CB1-4D15-B715-C1A0B4844722.html
Coach Bill Squires is another. He coached me on Team SISU. Neither were yellers.

There are also some excellent HS coaches in Mass to speak of, especially in the BSL. The league is blessed to have guys like Glennon, Martin, Waldron, et al who bring the knowledge, and at times, the yelling.

[Winston]

Why should we listen to what you have to say Mr. I run a 1:56 (right?) then 4:17 like 5minutes later. Clearly your coach doesn't know what he is doing.


I'm obv joking, that was a ballsy performance.


haha, thanks dude

[NONstopRUNNER]

on the topic of yelling, how about that LS coach? :eek:

[mcrun33]

on the topic of yelling, how about that LS coach? :eek:

His yell is, I would say, distinctive.

But, effective.

[Warrior]

Ive had 2 good coaches ... the both yell thier ass off.

Was I included in the 2? Thanks.

[AzN at LARGE]

I like coaches that yell, it's motivating.

[MillerTime6262]

I like coaches that yell, it's motivating.

Woodruff FTW

[BABAR]

Are you guys seriously debating the values that come with the volume of a coach's voice?

[Instride]

I think this is a chasm of misunderstanding of the original concept. I think JJ and I were talking about Coaches that yell at their athletes, such as a Bobby Knight. Many people here have taken it to mean cheering for the athlete. Cheering is great. It is positive energy. I will always remember the roar of 50,000 cheering people when I entered the Stadium as part of the USA team on home turf in the WAVA World Championships in '96. It is a feeling you cannot describe. However, when yelling is constantly done at a runner, it quickly becomes berrating. That is negative energy and hurts athletic development in the long run.

mcrun33, I cannot comment upon Mr Glennon and Mr Martin, for I do not know them personally. However, I do know Mr Waldron. He never yells at his runners. In his own words, he likes to focus on the positive, guide, and most of all, be a friend to them.

If you include both positive and negative yelling, I still contend that it is a non factor in the quality of coaching, just as hair color would be a non factor in quality coaching.

[Smitty]

If you include both positive and negative yelling, I still contend that it is a non factor in the quality of coaching, just as hair color would be a non factor in quality coaching.

Yelling besides cheering for the runner can certainly have a positive effect. If someone yells at you to pick it up, move your ass, etc., you get motivated and start moving faster.

[The Dark Horse]

I do know Mr Waldron. He never yells at his runners. In his own words, he likes to focus on the positive, guide, and most of all, be a friend to them.

QFE

from my experiences with Mr. Waldron, i have found that when he gives training tips, he does do so calmly and quietly after the race in friendly conversation. I have never heard him yell yet to date.

[xcrunna]

I've never heard Jon or Coach Blackburn really yell. None of the North boys coaches (Bauer, Wallace and Mr. Carpenter) seem to yell as a matter of a fact. In general, I like their reserved and measured approach. Then again, I think both methods to coaching can work, and would probably work for me.

[mcrun33]

I didnt say Jon yells, in fact, he never does. His style is very calm. Glennon's style is different. Neither is more or less effective than the other. I'd say it comes down to a coach's personality. I know my athletes expect to hear my voice during a race. If they dont, sometimes they wonder whats going on. Some athletes actually ask me before their race to really yell if they need to pick it up, etc. I dont like athletes wearing a watch (distracting, plus it takes energy to look at it) so they need to hear splits, etc. It's all about style.

[Emil's Ghost]

I think that most athletes have races or competitions in which, for whatever combination of reasons, they don't seem to be able to perform up to their potential. One of the important roles of any coach is to observe the athlete in competition and call him or her to "wake up" to their true abilities.

To me, the choice of how to do that is all about the receptivity of the athlete and the style of the coach. As others have said, there isn't just one right way.

One of the best coaches I know yells at runners, but only when he judges that they need to be jolted out of their complacency to rise to their own ability. He is such a good judge of abilities and races, that his yelling is almost surgical in its effect. I wish I had the confidence to yell that way.

It's interesting - this thread started as a conversation about correcting form (yelling at someone when they did something wrong), and has morphed into a discussion of motivational techniques.

[The Dark Horse]

It's interesting - this thread started as a conversation about correcting form (yelling at someone when they did something wrong), and has morphed into a discussion of motivational techniques.

QFE

i feel that this thread will stay this way until the outdoor season begins next month.

[jim]

That's fine with me, as long as we don't talk about correcting form. That's a potentially dangerous (and worthless?) discussion.

[The Dark Horse]

That's fine with me, as long as we don't talk about correcting form. That's a potentially dangerous (and worthless?) discussion.

i don't think its necessarily worthless, but i do agree that there are much more important things to improve in running such as mileage base, strength, kick and footspeed.

[AzN at LARGE]

I think good form is very important.

[DSTrack255]

i disagree...

[Instride]

mcrun33,

Ah! but you did....and that is what I was responding to.

There are also some excellent HS coaches in Mass to speak of, especially in the BSL. The league is blessed to have guys like Glennon, Martin, Waldron, et al who bring the knowledge, and at times, the yelling.

Your inclusion of his name in that sentences implies that he has a yelling style. I wanted to set the record straight.

It's all about style.

So its sounds likes you are in agreement with my orginal premise which was from my previous post:
If you include both positive and negative yelling, I still contend that it is a non factor in the quality of coaching, just as hair color would be a non factor in quality coaching.We can now put this issue "to bed."

[farmer]

I think good form is very important.

Ok, I'll bite: define "good form."

[Instride]

That's fine with me, as long as we don't talk about correcting form. That's a potentially dangerous (and worthless?) discussion.

There are some form changes that are dangerous. For example, I treated several Ethiopian runners in the 80's. Their genetic stock commonly gives them a short "boxy" foot with a somewhat high arch. Between their muscle structure (which I won't get into now) and their bone structure, they are mostly forefoot-type 1 strikers. The popular theory of the 80's was heel striking was best for distance runners. So, some of these guys were influenced by that theory. Part of my successful treatment was to have these patients revert back to their old style.

However, minor form changes especially those brought on by fatigue (such as overstriding and fist clenching) can be dealt with in a safe and effective manor.

This is as deep as I will get into it here as I feel that the thread is drifting off topic. If there is any interest, I will start a sports medicine/technical thread on the Distance Board.

In the meantime, you can read some stuff I have written here:
http://talk.dyestat.com/showthread.php?t=19812

[Professor Plum]

There are some form changes that are dangerous... The popular theory of the 80's was heel striking was best for distance runners. So, some of these guys were influenced by that theory. Part of my successful treatment was to have these patients revert back to their old style...


What if you are a natural heel striker, and are trying to train yourself not to land on your heel? Would this be a bad idea?

[AzN at LARGE]

Ok, I'll bite: define "good form."

Hmm good question. And it indeed sounds like a dangerous topic to approach.

From what I've seen I'd say:

Midfoot to forefoot landing.

Short foot to ground contact time.

As long a stride as possible without any sort of reaching.

Strong toe off.

Minimal or at least controlled upper body movement.

Feet landing in straight line.

Being relaxed or at least not pressing. Mainly because when people start to press their form falls apart.


Also, since we're in the off season I really don't see a problem with letting this thread drift "off topic".

And I definitely believe that as much as people have a natural form that fits them, form can be "fixed" and made more efficient. Leading to a quicker and more efficient stride, which would lead to more basic speed, which leads to faster times in longer distances.

[NSHSDad]

Midfoot to forefoot landing.

For what distance? I think the foot-strike you use depends on the distance you run.

[mcrun33]

mcrun33,

Ah! but you did....and that is what I was responding to.



Your inclusion of his name in that sentences implies that he has a yelling style. I wanted to set the record straight.



So its sounds likes you are in agreement with my orginal premise which was We can now put this issue "to bed."

If you wish, but I would also contend that the yelling I was referring to is not at runners in a disciplinary way, but to runners in an encouraging way. You seem to see what I was talking about as somehow negative, and as if I was bashing Jon. If you know anything about me its that I respect Jon Waldron as much as any coach I've come across. I've heard him shout encouraging things to runners during a race, never did I mean that he yells at his runners.

In fact, all coaches shout things at runners during races, even just to cheer them on. It's good coaching.

[Instride]

What if you are a natural heel striker, and are trying to train yourself not to land on your heel? Would this be a bad idea?

I do not have any data about you or your bone and muscle structure. Therefore, it is difficult to be very definitive. Let's just say that any radical change in how your foot hits the ground increases the risk of injury. Such a task should not be attempted without the right supervision.

[mcrun33]

Back to the BSL...

Who looks good for outdoor? On the girls side, I know Weymouth and Newton North are strong, Brookline gets alot stronger, I'm not sure how many Wellesley girls stay on, but theyll be great again, and I think Natick loses a few top kids, but stays OK. My completely uneducated guesses are...

1) Weymouth- could be their year, everyone's back, all is covered
2) Newton North- always good, no holes, best distance team
3) Brookline- adds a 60xx kid, and a few others, could challenge for the title
4) Braintree- Caldwell added to an improving team
5) Framingham- some really good sprinters
6) Needham- two incredible distance runners (why no 4x800?)

1) Wellesley- loaded and they cover everything
2) Natick- couple of indoor losses, but solid
3) Walpole- not a ton of depth, but everything's covered
4) Milton- improving, but what about Imhoff for outdoor?
5) Dedham- too small to contend, but well-coached
6) Norwood- rebuilding year, but they'll be back

[NSHSDad]

[QUOTE=Instride;1526736] any radical change in how your foot hits the ground increases the risk of injury [QUOTE]

A list? Achilles tendonitis - too much toe strike over too long distances.

Plantar fascitis - too hard a heel strike.

It's s complicated mix of how your foot is constructed, your leg muscles (and height) and distance you run - not to mention rapid changes (e.g. instride's comments).

[MillerTime6262]

6) Needham- two incredible distance runners (why no 4x800?)


I assume you are referring to Emily Lipman and Christina Kelley. Lipman does tennis so she won't be back for spring.

[mcrun33]

Forgot about Lipman... too bad, big loss...

OK, I'll do the boys, which tends to get more discussion.

1) Newton North- until someone takes it away
2) Weymouth- senior-heavy and good jumps, lots covered
3) Brookline- distanbce heavy, but could also win the league
4) Framingham- best jumps in the league, will be competitive every meet
5) Braintree- Starling is going to be a star (no pun) and theyll be tough
6) Needham- distance runners dont win outdoor meets, which is tough

1) Milton- great sprinters, just enough areas covered to be OK (throws?)
2) Wellesley- if throwers arrive (great coaching) they win the league
3) Natick- big enough, enough athletes to win some meets
4) Dedham- Weltman and Withrow worth alot of points
5) Walpole- coming on, need more areas covered, too many holes
6) Norwood- Coach Forrest will keep these guys competitive, but just not enough talent there

[AzN at LARGE]

6) Needham- two incredible distance runners (why no 4x800?)

That's a good question... Christina + Julie + Emily + Amy would've been sick.

[MillerTime6262]

6) Needham- distance runners dont win outdoor meets, which is tough


As always, we're hoping to get a better showing in outdoor.

[farmer]

Hmm good question. And it indeed sounds like a dangerous topic to approach.

From what I've seen I'd say:

Midfoot to forefoot landing.

Short foot to ground contact time.

As long a stride as possible without any sort of reaching.

Strong toe off.

Minimal or at least controlled upper body movement.

Feet landing in straight line.

Being relaxed or at least not pressing. Mainly because when people start to press their form falls apart.


Also, since we're in the off season I really don't see a problem with letting this thread drift "off topic".

And I definitely believe that as much as people have a natural form that fits them, form can be "fixed" and made more efficient. Leading to a quicker and more efficient stride, which would lead to more basic speed, which leads to faster times in longer distances.

A very thoughtful response. Thank you!

Based on your recommended footstrike, I assume you are focusing on middle/long distance runners. So, let's stick to that group.

My next questions: What do you do with someone who does not meet your criteria for good form? Do you try to change their "natural form"? Would you try to change the 'poor' form of someone like Paula Radcliffe?

[NSHSDad]

You mean that thing that Paula does with her head? It may help her keep her cadence.

It probably depends on how they're doing. My own view is that there can be "natural" styles for a lot of runners, which may look awkward but works for them.

On the other hand, I recall seeing Gabe Jennings the year after the olympics. I thought he was going to tear up the field in the anchor of a DMR against Arkansas, but he looked real tight and just couldn't put it together - it showed in his form. Probably there's no single answer that fits all runners.

[AzN at LARGE]

A very thoughtful response. Thank you!

Based on your recommended footstrike, I assume you are focusing on middle/long distance runners. So, let's stick to that group.

My next questions: What do you do with someone who does not meet your criteria for good form? Do you try to change their "natural form"? Would you try to change the 'poor' form of someone like Paula Radcliffe?

As a general rule I would say yes it is a good idea to change "poor" form, especially if we're talking about developing high school runners who haven't perfected their stride yet. With someone like Radcliffe it's hard to say without knowing if she's ever made a serious attempt to fix her form but just because someone's fast doesn't mean they couldn't get even faster with improved form. I'd say it's a rare scenario where a fast runner has "bad" form. Radcliffe is the exception, where she can get by without having the greatest form, not the rule.

On another note about good form I think bad form is the second biggest problem leading to running injuries, with the number one being building up mileage/intensity too fast. I see tons of kids on my team now getting injured and I see them running with a choppy stride or while banging the ground with every step. I don't think running on hard surfaces like concrete is what's getting runners these days injured, it's because they bang the hard surfaces with such force. If they landed lightly on the ground they'd have far fewer shin splints, stress fractures, whatever. On a personal note, I know whenever I have a great run when my stride is smooth I don't hurt at all after the run. However, if I have a run where I'm struggling to move and I know my stride is off I'll be sore and hurting all over.

Fixing form is also a tough problem because it takes such a long time to change it. Personally it took me over 2000 miles running in minimalistic shoes, doing drills, stretching, running barefoot, strengthening leg muscles, doing strides in spikes, etc. to even start to develop a more efficient stride. Since HS running is such a short term thing especially with coaches changing so quickly, at least where I came from, I can see why such little emphasis is placed on form. Coaches might try out some form drills, see no immediate results, and just move on. Therefore, I think the athletes themselves need to take initiative to improve their form. Like just about anything else with distance running, results come slowly but surely.

[NSHSDad]

One easy indicator is the noise that the footfalls make. A trick I use is to advise people to see how silently they can run as a kind of exercise to strengthen their awareness. Very loud footfalls probably implies a lot of shock to the legs.

I agree that it takes a long time to change form. I developed the bad habit of running too much on the balls of my feet and suffered achilles tendonitis. It took me an entire summer to train myself out of that bad habit. That's one thing that lots of distance in the summer can be good for.

[Mercury08]

u know ur a track geek when....you read entire essays about bad stride habbits on dyestat.
i didnt want to read it...but i did, i dont understand.

[farmer]

Some great responses – thanks, Azn and NHSHdad!

The biggest problem in this area is recognizing good/bad form in a runner. I don’t think most of us are capable of doing that well. One reason is I think good form is a very personal thing. Paula Radcliffe has world record form yet most observers might think her form is suboptimal. Changing her form, or that of any runner, might have disastrous effects.

Even the runner with noisy footfalls may have effective form. I’ve worked with one such runner who has competed injury free at a relatively high level. If I tried to change this runner’s form, the result could be injury and/or poor performance.

I don’t recommend form drills for middle/long distance runners. Instead I believe it makes more sense to work on core strength, foot & ankle strength, etc. to improve efficiency. Azn’s suggestions for minimalist/barefoot running, stretching, and strengthening make a lot of sense to me. Ultimately I believe the human body will naturally acquire its most efficient form That’s why I think NHSHdad’s comment about summer running is spot on. If you want to find your most natural and efficient form, punch out some significant mileage. The human body is an amazingly adaptive organism, and it will naturally find its most efficient movement pattern.

[The Dark Horse]

The biggest problem in this area is recognizing good/bad form in a runner. I don’t think most of us are capable of doing that well. I don’t recommend form drills for middle/long distance runners. Instead I believe it makes more sense to work on core strength, foot & ankle strength, etc. to improve efficiency. Azn’s suggestions for minimalist/barefoot running, stretching, and strengthening make a lot of sense to me. Ultimately I believe the human body will naturally acquire its most efficient form That’s why I think NHSHdad’s comment about summer running is spot on. If you want to find your most natural and efficient form, punch out some significant mileage. The human body is an amazingly adaptive organism, and it will naturally find its most efficient movement pattern.

QFE

[Instride]

If you wish, but I would also contend that the yelling I was referring to is not at runners in a disciplinary way, but to runners in an encouraging way. You seem to see what I was talking about as somehow negative, and as if I was bashing Jon. If you know anything about me its that I respect Jon Waldron as much as any coach I've come across. I've heard him shout encouraging things to runners during a race, never did I mean that he yells at his runners.

mcrun33,

You need to carefully re-read my posts. My discussion and conclusion were actually quite neutral on the subject.

Regarding your defensiveness about Jon: It was my opinion that you incorrectly stated Jon as an example of something. An incorrect example invalidates a point. Therefore, I called you on this point. If you were talking about vegetables and cited carrots, celery, and sheep as examples, I would not so sheepishly point out that a sheep is not a vegetable.

Please don't take it personally. If for some reason you want to make it person, please take it private.

[Instride]

On another note about good form I think bad form is the second biggest problem leading to running injuries, with the number one being building up mileage/intensity too fast.


AzN at Large,

You gave some nice answers on the question of form. I once told you that you are a true student of the sport. I would like to reemphasize that point.

At the risk of being called negative by some in these parts, I would like to disagree that form is the seconding leading cause of running injuries (based on my experiences as a sports medicine doctor). My candidate would be shoe related injuries ( too old, shoe not a match for the foot type, manufacturing defect, etc).

Form can also be part of the "which came first the chicken or the egg" principle. It can become bad because a muscle group is already in the early stages of injury. Injuries don't always warn with pain. Sometimes it is subtle, such as tightness, weakness, or loss of performance. It might be semantics, but I would not call thses injuries from bad form.

[OMGItzWang!]

mcrun33,

You need to carefully re-read my posts. My discussion and conclusion were actually quite neutral on the subject.

Regarding your defensiveness about Jon: It was my opinion that you incorrectly stated Jon as an example of something. An incorrect example invalidates a point. Therefore, I called you on this point. If you were talking about vegetables and cited carrots, celery, and sheep as examples, I would not so sheepishly point out that a sheep is not a vegetable.

Please don't take it personally. If for some reason you want to make it person, please take it private.

Them be fighting words....chillax its only a running forum....

[RicciRunForFun]

What is your prediction on what Gibson will run for the 2-mile... I saw he will run a 9:18 or better, but maybe if he didn't run his ass off already he could go even faster

[xcrunna]

I hope his legs aren't too destroyed from all of the mile/800 training he's had to do. If he's at his best I think he could run 9:15-9:20. Good luck to him.

[polyxc]

Could someone post Lehane of Brookline's top times this winter?

[clifbar]

Could someone post Lehane of Brookline's top times this winter?He didn't compete for the team this season. I think he ran something like 4:32 at a BU meet.

[polyxc]

Do you know why? Did he do another sport?

[mcrun33]

mcrun33,


Please don't take it personally. If for some reason you want to make it person, please take it private.

All set

[BABAR]

Could someone post Lehane of Brookline's top times this winter?

mile-4:33
3k-9:03

[xcrunna]

9:18 for Gibson unofficial! Congrats to him on a nice PR.

[The Dark Horse]

Do you know why? Did he do another sport?

as far as i know, he ran some BU meets unattached.

[polyxc]

9:18 for Gibson unofficial! Congrats to him on a nice PR.
Gibson's 9:17.65 is making him look like a real Footlocker threat.

[Professor Plum]

Could someone post Lehane of Brookline's top times this winter?
Yeah its true I only hit 4:33 and 9:03. I only ran 3 (open) races though, because of a couple of minor set backs.
9:18 for Gibson unofficial! Congrats to him on a nice PR.

9:17.65, official. Which was, while not on the level of his 9:26 last year (in terms of how unexpected it was,) still a good run. Good for 4th place in fact.

[Mercury08]

9:17.65, official. Which was, while not on the level of his 9:26 last year (in terms of how unexpected it was,) still a good run. Good for 4th place in fact.

4x8 splits? rob wont answer his phone

[Professor Plum]

4x8 splits? rob wont answer his phone

Matt wasn't bad (not great either,) but the rest of us were, indeed, bad.

[burnstein]

elliot 2:05
tony 2:06
gibson 1:58
stewart 1:56

[Warrior]

Good job by the quintet that went to NSIC. Hope everyone had fun.
One week to Outdoor - it should be an AWESOME season!

[Warrior]

Does anyone know if this 14' vaulter at NSIC attends Natick High? I don't remember any jumpers with that potential in the BSC.

[farmer]

Does anyone know if this 14' vaulter at NSIC attends Natick High? I don't remember any jumpers with that potential in the BSC.

Probably a vaulter with Air Time which is located in Natick. I'm guessing the same for the 4 "Natick" girls in the NSIC pv.

[mcrun33]

Probably a vaulter with Air Time which is located in Natick. I'm guessing the same for the 4 "Natick" girls in the NSIC pv.

Correct

[Warrior]

Thanks. Just looked at last year's All State outdoor. Seems Mr. LeBlanc goes to Oakmont - long way from Natick to train. I was going to push for PV inclusion in the BSC for this kid. Seems like there were alot of 14' vaulters at NSIC which has alwys been a very good vault in MA.

[Mercury08]

Thanks. Just looked at last year's All State outdoor. Seems Mr. LeBlanc goes to Oakmont - long way from Natick to train. I was going to push for PV inclusion in the BSC for this kid. Seems like there were alot of 14' vaulters at NSIC which has alwys been a very good vault in MA.

what about me? i think i really showed some Pole vaulting potential last year. :D

[Weezy]

Throw out you're preseason predictions for the Conference meet... should be interesting to look at in 2 months when it goes down.

[Warrior]

100 - Smitty
200 - Smitty
400 - Smitty
800- Smitty
Mile - Smitty
2 Mile - Smitty
110H - Smitty
300H - Smitty
SP - Smitty
Disc - Smitty
Jav - Smitty
HJ - Smitty
PV - Smitty
LJ - Smitty
TJ - Smitty

[Smitty]

100 - Smitty
200 - Smitty
400 - Smitty
800- Smitty
Mile - Smitty
2 Mile - Smitty
110H - Smitty
300H - Smitty
SP - Smitty
Disc - Smitty
Jav - Smitty
HJ - Smitty
PV - Smitty
LJ - Smitty
TJ - Smitty

Unfortunately, I can only compete in so many events. Perhaps we should petition league officials to allow open competition?

[mcrun33]

Ill take my crack (guesses only)
Of course this doesnt take into account unknowns who didnt run last year or freshmen (in the case of girls) who can run 60 flat

100- Wornum (MIL)
200- Weltman (DED)
400- Mitchell (NN)
800- Stewart (BRO)
1 Mile- Gibson (BRO)
2 Mile- Lehane (BRO)
110 HH- Zukowski (WEY)
300 IH- ?
LJ- Endres (WEY)
TJ- Maddocks (FRA)
HJ- Maddocks (FRA)
SP- Smith (NN)
J- ?
D- Smith (NN)
4x100- Milton
4x400- Newton North

Girls:

100- DeAmicis (WEL)
200- Farrell (DED)
400- Bennett (WEY)
800- Ranti (NN)
1 Mile- Barton (NN)
2 Mile- White (NAT)
110 HH- Parry (NAT)
300 IH- Flaherty (WEY)
LJ- Lafitte (WEL)
TJ- Tracey (BRO)
HJ- Muir (WEL)
SP- Bruce (WEY)
J- Fandel (DED) or King (NN)
D- Breen (NN)
4x100- Wellesley
4x400- Newton North

[Mercury08]

100 - Smitty
200 - Smitty
400 - Smitty
800- Smitty
Mile - Smitty
2 Mile - Smitty
110H - Smitty
300H - Smitty
SP - Smitty
Disc - Smitty
Jav - Smitty
HJ - Smitty
PV - Smitty
LJ - Smitty
TJ - Smitty

i see it a little differently:
100 - pope
200 - pope
400 - pope
800- pope
Mile - pope
2 Mile - pope
110H - pope
300H - pope
SP - pope
Disc - pope
Jav - pope
HJ - pope
PV - pope
LJ - pope
TJ - pope

[trackat8]

J- Fandel (DED) or King (NN)

King graduated last yearrrr

[Run Faster]

100 - Smitty
200 - Smitty
400 - Smitty
800- Smitty
Mile - Smitty
2 Mile - Smitty
110H - Smitty
300H - Smitty
SP - Smitty
Disc - Smitty
Jav - Smitty
HJ - Smitty
PV - Smitty
LJ - Smitty
TJ - Smitty

I don't get it.














O wait...I GET IT. I think that it was supposed to be funny. But I guess not.

[OMGItzWang!]

I don't get it.
O wait...I GET IT. I think that it was supposed to be funny. But I guess not.

this coming from the person who has links to stupid political humor in their signature....

[DSTrack255]

those are some interesitng predictions mcrun, i think i like mercury's better

[The Dark Horse]

those are some interesitng predictions mcrun, i think i like mercury's better

QFE

[The Dark Horse]

I don't get it.

O wait...I GET IT. I think that it was supposed to be funny. But I guess not.

this coming from the person who has links to stupid political humor in their signature....

pwn

[Weezy]

Ill take my crack (guesses only)
Of course this doesnt take into account unknowns who didnt run last year or freshmen (in the case of girls) who can run 60 flat

4x100- Milton
4x400- Newton North

look for a reversal

[RicciRunForFun]

I don't get it.














O wait...I GET IT. I think that it was supposed to be funny. But I guess not.
LMFAO

[Run Faster]

this coming from the person who has links to stupid political humor in their signature....

This is coming from someone who is obbsessed with wang. Which is another name for penis.

[DSTrack255]

This is coming from someone who is obbsessed with wang. Which is another name for penis.


hahahahahahahahahaahahahah

[mcrun33]

This is coming from someone who is obbsessed with wang. Which is another name for penis.

No no, the wang he is referring to is 6 feet 2 and very intimidating

[xcrunna]

No no, the wang he is referring to is 6 feet 2 and very intimidating
Didn't know mcrun33 was looking when I was changing in the locker room. Guess it's hard to miss.

[The Dark Horse]

This is coming from someone who is obbsessed with wang. Which is another name for penis.

No no, the wang he is referring to is 6 feet 2 and very intimidating

and that'll make you "run faster" in a race with wang, won't it ;)

[Warrior]

To get this back to track talk - there was some discussion about form on the theread recently. This spring's issue of High School Runner has some thoughts. Check it out.

[AzN at LARGE]

To get this back to track talk - there was some discussion about form on the theread recently. This spring's issue of High School Runner has some thoughts. Check it out.

What's it say?

[The Dark Horse]

What's it say?

QFE

[kang6789]

I just heard that David Wilson is coming transfering to Brookline High on Monday.
He ran 16:00 for 5k on the track and 17:05 at VCP in XC.

[MillerTime6262]

I just heard that David Wilson is coming transfering to Brookline High on Monday.
He ran 16:00 for 5k on the track and 17:05 at VCP in XC.

wow thats definitely what you guys need, another very talented distance runner :rolleyes: