Bay State League

[farmer]

Let's not forget that there are other leagues that should be considered. Here's mcrun's list updated to include the CAL:

1) Newton South DCL 18:47
2) Lincoln-Sudbury DCL 18:52
3) Hamilton-Wenham CAL 19:33
4) Haverhill MVC 19:48
5) North Andover CAL 20:04
6) Billerica MVC 20:18
7) Masco CAL 20:20
8) Wellesley BSC 20:25
9) Pentucket CAL 20:38
10) Concord-Carlisle DCL 20:40
11) Natick BSC 20:45
12) Chelmsford MVC 20:47
13) Central Catholic MVC 20:49
14) Milton BSC 20:50
15) Newton North BSC 20:54
16) Brookline BSC 20:54
17) Framingham BSC 20:54
18) Tewksbury MVC 20:59
19) Newburyport CAL 21:02
20) Westford Academy DCL 21:09
21) Walpole BSC 21:28
22) Triton CAL 21:29
23) Weymouth BSC 21:30
24) Acton-Boxboro DCL 21:39
25) Andover MVC 21:48
26) Wilmington CAL 22:19
27) Lowell MVC 22:21
28) Methuen MVC 22:30

CAL 26, DCL 30
CAL 22, BSC 34
CAL 25, MVC 30

[mcrun33]

Let's not forget that there are other leagues that should be considered. Here's mcrun's list updated to include the CAL:

1) Newton South DCL 18:47
2) Lincoln-Sudbury DCL 18:52
3) Hamilton-Wenham CAL 19:33
4) Haverhill MVC 19:48
5) North Andover CAL 20:04
6) Billerica MVC 20:18
7) Masco CAL 20:20
8) Wellesley BSC 20:25
9) Pentucket CAL 20:38
10) Concord-Carlisle DCL 20:40
11) Natick BSC 20:45
12) Chelmsford MVC 20:47
13) Central Catholic MVC 20:49
14) Milton BSC 20:50
15) Newton North BSC 20:54
16) Brookline BSC 20:54
17) Framingham BSC 20:54
18) Tewksbury MVC 20:59
19) Newburyport CAL 21:02
20) Westford Academy DCL 21:09
21) Walpole BSC 21:28
22) Triton CAL 21:29
23) Weymouth BSC 21:30
24) Acton-Boxboro DCL 21:39
25) Andover MVC 21:48
26) Wilmington CAL 22:19
27) Lowell MVC 22:21
28) Methuen MVC 22:30

CAL 26, DCL 30
CAL 22, BSC 34
CAL 25, MVC 30

I literally stand corrected.... I didnt know half of those teams were in the CAL (Wilmington???). 5 teams to all states also, more than BSC (2), DCL (3), and MVC (4)

[mcrun33]

Got to retract my previous post about BSC co-supremacy. It has been pointed out to me by a DCL coach that CC would surely be ahead of where they were had it not been for some health issues with their coach. Also, didnt take into account NS and LS's 2nd teams would have been in the mix as well. DCL rules the roost no matter how you measure it.

[Old Blue Eyes]

Got to retract my previous post about BSC co-supremacy. It has been pointed out to me by a DCL coach that CC would surely be ahead of where they were had it not been for some health issues with their coach. Also, didnt take into account NS and LS's 2nd teams would have been in the mix as well. DCL rules the roost no matter how you measure it.

Can't count would haves, could haves; and second teams don't count either. So you are not so wrong.

[Warrior]

Got to retract my previous post about BSC co-supremacy. It has been pointed out to me by a DCL coach that CC would surely be ahead of where they were had it not been for some health issues with their coach. Also, didnt take into account NS and LS's 2nd teams would have been in the mix as well. DCL rules the roost no matter how you measure it.

Why on earth are you sucking up to Steve? They do not rule however you measure it because the way we decided to measure it has the BSC come out on top. Are you trying to get a chance to touch the trophy?

NS and LS are great teams and will have there chance to show it over the next several weeks. CC and there coach are going through a very difficult time and doing their best. I wish them the best and they're in my prayers. BUT the BSC deserves it props for having a whole bunch of competitive teams that got the job done on Saturday under the guidelines I established with Steve in my bet.

The PM I got which I'm guessing is how it was "pointed out" to you had the sound of sour grapes.

[BananaFerret]

Can't count would haves, could haves; and second teams don't count either. So you are not so wrong.

^^^ what he said

[turgonxc]

Since i brought up LS's second five i feel i need to defend what i said.
First if Warriors bet with Mr. McChesney was about saturday than indeed the BSL was the deeper and the better of the two if you were scoring a duel as mcrun did out. A wager is a wager. If you bet on the Pats at the start of the NFL season you could not take it back once Brady went down.

BUT if you are looking at depth of a league in general, you have to take into account a team like LS's second seven. if you look at last years DCL championship results in the JV race Jen Gossels ran 20:00 flat and was second. This "JV" athelete ended up being 11th in the state in Indoor for the two mile. Just because some kids on a team like LS or NS dont have the chance to compete at EMass Cross country doesnt mean they dont effect the League depth which is what is symbolized in the duel meet scoring which mcrun did.

[Warrior]

Since i brought up LS's second five i feel i need to defend what i said.
First if Warriors bet with Mr. McChesney was about saturday than indeed the BSL was the deeper and the better of the two if you were scoring a duel as mcrun did out. A wager is a wager. If you bet on the Pats at the start of the NFL season you could not take it back once Brady went down.

BUT if you are looking at depth of a league in general, you have to take into account a team like LS's second seven. if you look at last years DCL championship results in the JV race Jen Gossels ran 20:00 flat and was second. This "JV" athelete ended up being 11th in the state in Indoor for the two mile. Just because some kids on a team like LS or NS dont have the chance to compete at EMass Cross country doesnt mean they dont effect the League depth which is what is symbolized in the duel meet scoring which mcrun did.

Again it's how you frame the competition. And the depth of LS and NS show how great their teams are and probably will be for some time.

But they are 2 teams regardless if you count their second group. A LEAGUE is judged by all its teams.

[turgonxc]

Again it's how you frame the competition. And the depth of LS and NS show how great their teams are and probably will be for some time.

But they are 2 teams regardless if you count their second group. A LEAGUE is judged by all its teams.

hypothetical
Brookline went to BOTH CMI and brown this year on the same day and ran in the varsity races. IF you won at both venues you would have a good program with two seperate good teams. They are not the SAME team (the seven runners at each meet would be different) but the same program. This depth makes the program deeper and better which in turn makes the league deeper; or at least thats my opinion. i think its the difference between looking at just the teams or every individual on judging league depth.

[Warrior]

hypothetical
Brookline went to BOTH CMI and brown this year on the same day and ran in the varsity races. IF you won at both venues you would have a good program with two seperate good teams. They are not the SAME team (the seven runners at each meet would be different) but the same program. This depth makes the program deeper and better which in turn makes the league deeper; or at least thats my opinion. i think its the difference between looking at just the teams or every individual on judging league depth.

And I believe LEAGUE depth is based on looking at every team.. not just individuals.

[clayNNHSxc]

Good to see old posters and thread starter return.

Politics livened up the board. I don't think it's a bad thing. We definitely can agree to disagree.

---------------------------------
Old Blue Eyes:
The top 1% now pay 37%of the taxes and earn 22% of the income. The top 5% pay 60% of the taxes. How much do you think thay should pay? And do you think they are just "fortunate"? Some are , of course, but most have worked hard and are rewarded for their efforts. The world works best when people are rewarded for making good decisions and penalized for making bad decisions. The recent economic meltdown proves that.
---------------------------------

Some facts and figures:

The tax rate is roughly the same as their Total Net Worth or Financial Wealth. Top 1% have: 33% of TNW and 39% in FW. For top 5% it is: 51% TNW and 52% FW. These line up with the quoted taxes numbers. A dollar earned by the top 1% is taxed the same ammount as a dollar earned by the bottom 50%.

It's good to remember that the American middle class is a relatively new group of people to civilization.
-White Collar: The American Middle Classes by C Wright Mills was one of the first books to note white collar jobs in 1951. (Jobs created by increase in consumerism.)
-Blue collar was coined by the uniforms worn in the 19th century industrial workplaces. (Jobs created by industrial revolution and increased exponentially by wars.)
50+ years and 150+ years is a relatively small amount of time.

Our government system is part capitalism (corporations), part socialism (social security).

The definition of capitalism has nothing to do with "merit", and the sport of cross country is not capitalistic.

Our government (on the whole descirbe as a democracy) has parts that relate to ability (meritocracy), but also some that relate to wealth (plutocracy), family connections (nepotism), and class privilege (oligarchy).



These are what our government uses, regardless of whether I think they are the right choices.

[oracle]

my two cents...

There are many ways to frame a discussion on who has the best league, however the contest between Warrior and McChesney was based on a certain format, and there's no changing the ground rules after the fact. It was based on EMass results, and though it is pretty amazing that a JV team would have even figured into the decision, there were no JV teams at EMass so I don't see how the result could be in dispute. And there will always be runners who are not at their best - them's the breaks. That's why depth is so important. Bay State won this bet.

That was a fun side bet to follow. I think it is pretty cool that the decision came down to the sixth place!

Further, I see no co-supremacy between the DCL and BSL. The results farmer put up seem pretty convincing to me, CAL is the "best" girls XC league in the state by almost any measure.

On one hand there is league depth, and using mcrun's team scoring approach, CAL beat BSL, beat DCL, and beat MVC.

Another approach to league quality is all-state qualifiers. In this regard CAL also takes the cake.

On another hand you could say it is who has the best teams. While the DCL has a good argument in this discussion having two nationally ranked teams and the two best teams in the state, CAL teams won two of the four divisions on Saturday, and went 1-2 in one of them! They appear to have the front runner for the D2 state title in HW, who's 19:33 team average is an eye-popping given that it is coming from a D4 school.

[Warrior]

---------------------------------
Old Blue Eyes:
The top 1% now pay 37%of the taxes and earn 22% of the income. The top 5% pay 60% of the taxes. How much do you think thay should pay? And do you think they are just "fortunate"? Some are , of course, but most have worked hard and are rewarded for their efforts. The world works best when people are rewarded for making good decisions and penalized for making bad decisions. The recent economic meltdown proves that.
---------------------------------

Some facts and figures:

The tax rate is roughly the same as their Total Net Worth or Financial Wealth. Top 1% have: 33% of TNW and 39% in FW. For top 5% it is: 51% TNW and 52% FW. These line up with the quoted taxes numbers. A dollar earned by the top 1% is taxed the same ammount as a dollar earned by the bottom 50%.

It's good to remember that the American middle class is a relatively new group of people to civilization.
-White Collar: The American Middle Classes by C Wright Mills was one of the first books to note white collar jobs in 1951. (Jobs created by increase in consumerism.)
-Blue collar was coined by the uniforms worn in the 19th century industrial workplaces. (Jobs created by industrial revolution and increased exponentially by wars.)
50+ years and 150+ years is a relatively small amount of time.

Our government system is part capitalism (corporations), part socialism (social security).

The definition of capitalism has nothing to do with "merit", and the sport of cross country is not capitalistic.

Our government (on the whole descirbe as a democracy) has parts that relate to ability (meritocracy), but also some that relate to wealth (plutocracy), family connections (nepotism), and class privilege (oligarchy).



These are what our government uses, regardless of whether I think they are the right choices.


Where are you at school Clay? Taking a goverment class? :cool:

[Old Blue Eyes]

---------------------------------
Old Blue Eyes:
The top 1% now pay 37%of the taxes and earn 22% of the income. The top 5% pay 60% of the taxes. How much do you think thay should pay? And do you think they are just "fortunate"? Some are , of course, but most have worked hard and are rewarded for their efforts. The world works best when people are rewarded for making good decisions and penalized for making bad decisions. The recent economic meltdown proves that.
---------------------------------

Some facts and figures:

The tax rate is roughly the same as their Total Net Worth or Financial Wealth. Top 1% have: 33% of TNW and 39% in FW. For top 5% it is: 51% TNW and 52% FW. These line up with the quoted taxes numbers. A dollar earned by the top 1% is taxed the same ammount as a dollar earned by the bottom 50%.

It's good to remember that the American middle class is a relatively new group of people to civilization.
-White Collar: The American Middle Classes by C Wright Mills was one of the first books to note white collar jobs in 1951. (Jobs created by increase in consumerism.)
-Blue collar was coined by the uniforms worn in the 19th century industrial workplaces. (Jobs created by industrial revolution and increased exponentially by wars.)
50+ years and 150+ years is a relatively small amount of time.

Our government system is part capitalism (corporations), part socialism (social security).

The definition of capitalism has nothing to do with "merit", and the sport of cross country is not capitalistic.

Our government (on the whole descirbe as a democracy) has parts that relate to ability (meritocracy), but also some that relate to wealth (plutocracy), family connections (nepotism), and class privilege (oligarchy).



These are what our government uses, regardless of whether I think they are the right choices.

Clayton--the bottom 46% pay no taxes. The top 1% pay the highest rate (38%?). Our tax ssystem is graduated. As to x-country, I don't think you would have worked as hard for that 16th place finish at the 2004 All State meet if the reward (recognition) for your effort was going to be distributed to others who didn't work as hard as you. Your heart is in the right place. Winston Churchill said, "if at the age of 20 you are not a liberal, you have no heart; if at the age of 40 you are not a conservative you have no brain" That is a bit strong and I'm sure he said it in some jest, but as Shakespeare said "few things are said in true jest" Anyway I hope I'm around when you are 40.

[mcrun33]

Clayton--the bottom 46% pay no taxes. The top 1% pay the highest rate (38%?). Our tax ssystem is graduated. As to x-country, I don't think you would have worked as hard for that 16th place finish at the 2004 All State meet if the reward (recognition) for your effort was going to be distributed to others who didn't work as hard as you. Your heart is in the right place. Winston Churchill said, "if at the age of 20 you are not a liberal, you have no heart; if at the age of 40 you are not a conservative you have no brain" That is a bit strong and I'm sure he said it in some jest, but as Shakespeare said "few things are said in true jest" Anyway I hope I'm around when you are 40.

His reward was distributed to others who didnt work as hard.... the other 6 Newton North runners:rolleyes:

[xcrunna]

Clayton--the bottom 46% pay no taxes. The top 1% pay the highest rate (38%?). Our tax ssystem is graduated.
Clay's not saying anything to contradict that. As far as I can tell he's not using GDP(income/output) figures, but rather people's net wealth(in assets/properties etc.), and showing that they line up with their tax rates. Much of the bottom 46% holds far less net wealth in proportion to their income because of their mortgages/debts/liabilities coupled with the amount of necessary spending everyone has for insurance/gas for the car/heat etc. The tax system is designed to tax on people's disposable income not their income. Good discussion of taxes: http://econ.jhu.edu/courses/302/Taxes_and_Spending.pdf .
I wouldn't worry about the incentives declining for people to make that top tax bracket. People want to get rich, and won't be discouraged by a higher tax rate. That being said, the idea of redistributing to people who aren't attempting to make a living is undesirable, and I would hope tax revenue can go to lowering the amount of people who fall into that category via training programs/better schools in poor areas/safer and nicer neighborhoods in the inner city. That being said, long term projects that aren't quick fixes don't seem to emerge often.

[Mercury08]

"if at the age of 20 you are not a liberal, you have no heart; if at the age of 40 you are not a conservative you have no brain" That is a bit strong and I'm sure he said it in some jest, but as Shakespeare said "few things are said in true jest" Anyway I hope I'm around when you are 40.

His reward was distributed to others who didnt work as hard.... the other 6 Newton North runners:rolleyes:

and were those other six runners not working hard? no. they were doing the best with what they had. I don't favor the welfare state but the little bit of heart i have in me tells me that the whole bottom 46% can't all be bums who aren't striving to be the most productive members of society that they can, and if we're going to bail out wall street we might as well give other people a break also. I do believe in trickle down economics but too much concentration of wealth can pose its own problems to society. i'm obviously not as well versed in economics as other people in this thread but i do have a basic understanding of the american tax system. (and this is my first post with two quotes woohoo!)

[Old Blue Eyes]

and were those other six runners not working hard? no. they were doing the best with what they had. I don't favor the welfare state but the little bit of heart i have in me tells me that the whole bottom 46% can't all be bums who aren't striving to be the most productive members of society that they can, and if we're going to bail out wall street we might as well give other people a break also. I do believe in trickle down economics but too much concentration of wealth can pose its own problems to society. i'm obviously not as well versed in economics as other people in this thread but i do have a basic understanding of the american tax system. (and this is my first post with two quotes woohoo!)

Nobody is saying the bottom 46% are bums. Only that they don't pay the same tax rate as the upper 1% as clay and BCAL erroneously suggest. In fact, they don't pay taxes.

[clayNNHSxc]

Clayton--the bottom 46% pay no taxes. The top 1% pay the highest rate (38%?). Our tax ssystem is graduated. As to x-country, I don't think you would have worked as hard for that 16th place finish at the 2004 All State meet if the reward (recognition) for your effort was going to be distributed to others who didn't work as hard as you. Your heart is in the right place. Winston Churchill said, "if at the age of 20 you are not a liberal, you have no heart; if at the age of 40 you are not a conservative you have no brain" That is a bit strong and I'm sure he said it in some jest, but as Shakespeare said "few things are said in true jest" Anyway I hope I'm around when you are 40.

My outlook on cross country is a little different (and maybe can't be compared to) my outlook on economic policy.

I remember when posed with the choice of either having a world record or a gold medal, I would choose the gold medal, not only because world records are usually not real races, and not because of a medal.

Whenever I trained, I enjoyed it, I had fun, but I made sure I was hitting my goals. Whenever I raced, I raced to win. Maybe not that race, but always racing to see how my training was getting me closer to winning the race. I wasn't looking for recognition for my effort, not even if I would win. Recognition is not interchangeable with money for me. I worked as hard as I did so that one day I could toe the line of a race and win the goddamn thing.

This mantra was reaffirmed again and again by Old Blue Eyes and his initiation: "You go it!"

[mcrun33]

While the girls meets are one (Hamilton-Wenham) or two (LS/ NS) horse races, I see both boys meets being wide open. In DI- here's my predicted top 10:

1) Amherst
2) Mansfield
3) Methuen
4) St. John's Prep
5) Nashoba
6) Newton South
7) Whitman-Hanson
8) Newton North
9) St John's (S)
10) Shrewsbury

I have alot of trouble seeing what teams will do at FP coming from Gardner. I realize this is the BSC thread, so my main idea was to wonder whether NN could get there. Strangely, I think any of those top 8 teams could win on a good day (and a slightly off day from the top 2), including North. Hey didnt SJP win all states coming form 5th a few years ago. Brockton did something similar 2 years ago at Northfield.

In D2, I see it even more wide open... again, the conversion for these 3 courses is tough, but assuming the Mountain was running a bit slow...

1) Wellesley
2) Pembroke
3) Oliver Ames
4) Southwick-Tolland
5) Whitinsville
6) Seekonk
7) Bishop Feehan
8) Bedford
9) Walpole
10) Hamilton-Wenham

Again, really anyone in the top 7 could win, with Pembroke being the most interesting team coming for favorite Wellesley. They won D4's with a mediocre race from their 5th, and if he can close and run 17:45 or so, they are a real threat. Obviously OA also almost beat Wellesley, but I think they are just now running their best and will hold everyone else off.

Go Lou!

[Old Blue Eyes]

My outlook on cross country is a little different (and maybe can't be compared to) my outlook on economic policy.

I remember when posed with the choice of either having a world record or a gold medal, I would choose the gold medal, not only because world records are usually not real races, and not because of a medal.

Whenever I trained, I enjoyed it, I had fun, but I made sure I was hitting my goals. Whenever I raced, I raced to win. Maybe not that race, but always racing to see how my training was getting me closer to winning the race. I wasn't looking for recognition for my effort, not even if I would win. Recognition is not interchangeable with money for me. I worked as hard as I did so that one day I could toe the line of a race and win the goddamn thing.

This mantra was reaffirmed again and again by Old Blue Eyes and his initiation: "You go it!"

To continue the metaphor Clayton, I'm sure your great effort had a lot to do with helping your team gain the recognition of being the All State champions, which without you they could not have done. If no winners were declared and instead ribbons were distributed to all participants(who do deserve credit) you and your team would not have worked as hard. Your excellence would not have been achieved. It's no different in life.

[Warrior]

"You go it" :confused: That's been the secret all these years? "YOU GO IT"

That's one point of surrender. The other is on the politics. If OBE and I can't even get 25% of the coaches in the league to believe in double distance then I give up. I obviously don't understand politics in any forum. I don't have the pulse of the constituency. As best I can tell the majority believes it is too taxing and would hurt the distance athletes to race 2x so they must be protected with a rule to prevent the coaches who believe they could do it.

[Warrior]

[QUOTE=mcrun33;2782308
In D2, I see it even more wide open... again, the conversion for these 3 courses is tough, but assuming the Mountain was running a bit slow...

1) Wellesley
2) Pembroke
3) Oliver Ames
4) Southwick-Tolland
5) Whitinsville
6) Seekonk
7) Bishop Feehan
8) Bedford
9) Walpole
10) Hamilton-Wenham

Again, really anyone in the top 7 could win, with Pembroke being the most interesting team coming for favorite Wellesley. They won D4's with a mediocre race from their 5th, and if he can close and run 17:45 or so, they are a real threat. Obviously OA also almost beat Wellesley, but I think they are just now running their best and will hold everyone else off.

Go Lou![/QUOTE]

Good analysis and support for both Wellesley and Lou and your buddy Zopatti. How to play it down the middle while being loyal.

Why didn't Zopatti do the same for you with 26.2? Thanking him for mentioning him? :confused:

[mcrun33]

Good analysis and support for both Wellesley and Lou and your buddy Zopatti. How to play it down the middle while being loyal.

Why didn't Zopatti do the same for you with 26.2? Thanking him for mentioning him? :confused:

I dont understand the last part of your question...

[clifbar]

While the girls meets are one (Hamilton-Wenham) or two (LS/ NS) horse races, I see both boys meets being wide open. In DI- here's my predicted top 10:

1) Amherst
2) Mansfield
3) Methuen
4) St. John's Prep
5) Nashoba
6) Newton South
7) Whitman-Hanson
8) Newton North
9) St John's (S)
10) Shrewsbury

I have alot of trouble seeing what teams will do at FP coming from Gardner. I realize this is the BSC thread, so my main idea was to wonder whether NN could get there. Strangely, I think any of those top 8 teams could win on a good day (and a slightly off day from the top 2), including North. Hey didnt SJP win all states coming form 5th a few years ago. Brockton did something similar 2 years ago at Northfield.

I agree that it's pretty much wide open, but I think the teams with a real shot are really only those 5-6. Newton North ran fantastically at EMass and had a great day from just about all of their guys. For them to pull off a win they would need to replicate last Saturday but do even better. Not to say it's impossible, I just think its fairly unlikely.
I'd say Amherst, Methuen, SJP, and Mansfield all have a fairly even shot with Amherst and SJP having a slight edge. Nashoba is not far behind, and NS also has a shot, but without Wortham or Beck they really need to work on the pack sticking together and placing higher.

[Warrior]

I dont understand the last part of your question...

I'll PM you.

[TiTanZ]

I'll PM you.

calling me out...terrible! i agree with you somewhat after i wrote that i realized i just thanked the guy who didn't even mention that my girls won the OUtdoor Div 4 title...i lost some respect for myself. thanks for making me feel like a wounded dog.:cool:

[Warrior]

calling me out...terrible! i agree with you somewhat after i wrote that i realized i just thanked the guy who didn't even mention that my girls won the OUtdoor Div 4 title...i lost some respect for myself. thanks for making me feel like a wounded dog.:cool:

CONGRATS ON A GREAT RACE. Much more important than the paper stuff. I understand you were just looking for some recognition for your team.

[BananaFerret]

In D2, I see it even more wide open... again, the conversion for these 3 courses is tough, but assuming the Mountain was running a bit slow...

1) Wellesley
2) Pembroke
3) Oliver Ames
4) Southwick-Tolland
5) Whitinsville
6) Seekonk
7) Bishop Feehan
8) Bedford
9) Walpole
10) Hamilton-Wenham

Again, really anyone in the top 7 could win, with Pembroke being the most interesting team coming for favorite Wellesley. They won D4's with a mediocre race from their 5th, and if he can close and run 17:45 or so, they are a real threat. Obviously OA also almost beat Wellesley, but I think they are just now running their best and will hold everyone else off.

Go Lou!

Thanks for the support :)

I think Whitinsville's a bigger threat than Pembroke -- we'll see on Sat. Hopefully we can hold 'em all off!

[Old Blue Eyes]

"You go it" :confused: That's been the secret all these years? "YOU GO IT"

That's one point of surrender. The other is on the politics. If OBE and I can't even get 25% of the coaches in the league to believe in double distance then I give up. I obviously don't understand politics in any forum. I don't have the pulse of the constituency. As best I can tell the majority believes it is too taxing and would hurt the distance athletes to race 2x so they must be protected with a rule to prevent the coaches who believe they could do it.

You have defined it accurately Warrior.

[Raiderade 09]

Thanks for the support :)

I think Whitinsville's a bigger threat than Pembroke -- we'll see on Sat. Hopefully we can hold 'em all off!

Like mcrun said, we'll have to see what whitinsville can do coming from gardner to franklin, but the home field advantage of FP can only work in our favor, and oliver ames will be a bigger thorn than we give them credit for imo

[BananaFerret]

Yea I heard that the double distance rule is pending, needing approval from the ADs? Confirm/deny?

I would loveeee this rule added.

[daveXC]

Yea I heard that the double distance rule is pending, needing approval from the ADs? Confirm/deny?

I would loveeee this rule added.

That would be awesome.

[mcrun33]

Absolutely false.... double distance was voted down more or less 2-1 by the coaches.

What is on the table (for 2009-10) in the BSC is a new 1-1-1 rule whereby nobody would be able to double in two running (non-relay) events. That was voted in nearly unanimously by the coaches, thus leveling the playing field and emilinating the ability for 1-2 great sprinters from tilting the balance in a meet.

Outdoor will almost certainly stay the same, as this rule would hurt too many teams.

[Warrior]

Absolutely false.... double distance was voted down more or less 2-1 by the coaches.

What is on the table (for 2009-10) in the BSC is a new 1-1-1 rule whereby nobody would be able to double in two running (non-relay) events. That was voted in nearly unanimously by the coaches, thus leveling the playing field and emilinating the ability for 1-2 great sprinters from tilting the balance in a meet.

Outdoor will almost certainly stay the same, as this rule would hurt too many teams.

Nothing changes in the season it's voted on but would change the following year. For outdoor the double distance will be brought up again. I am told some voted this way (against double distance for 1-1-1) not only to level the playing field but also to allow increased participation indoors where we have limitations to how many athletes can participate in each event per school. Not a problem outdoors. mcrun suggests nothing changing outdoors because it hurts too many schools ---smaller schools needing event doubling to fill out their meet lineups. Seems allowing double distance would do this as well. Still there are coaches in those schools that use one argument for sprints but another for distance. :confused:

[trackrunner00]

VOTE FOR ME

http://www.talk.dyestat.com/showthread.php?t=94499

[Bailey91]

Nothing changes in the season it's voted on but would change the following year. For outdoor the double distance will be brought up again. I am told some voted this way (against double distance for 1-1-1) not only to level the playing field but also to allow increased participation indoors where we have limitations to how many athletes can participate in each event per school. Not a problem outdoors. mcrun suggests nothing changing outdoors because it hurts too many schools ---smaller schools needing event doubling to fill out their meet lineups. Seems allowing double distance would do this as well. Still there are coaches in those schools that use one argument for sprints but another for distance. :confused:

Everyone has their own philosophy regarding sprints and distance...having coached both (and competed in both in college)...I have been, and will be against the distance double at the high school level...

[bcal92]

that is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

C'mon, not allowing the 55-300 double or the 100-200 double? That is just crazy.

[Glue548]

have been, and will be against the distance double at the high school level...

...reasons?

[Old Blue Eyes]

Everyone has their own philosophy regarding sprints and distance...having coached both (and competed in both in college)...I have been, and will be against the distance double at the high school level...

I remember when there were those who had run track who were opposed to having the relay at high meets be 4x400. Was thought to be too taxing. Only in Massachusetts isn't just politically applicable.

[Warrior]

Everyone has their own philosophy regarding sprints and distance...having coached both (and competed in both in college)...I have been, and will be against the distance double at the high school level...

How do you define sprints and distance? I'm guessing you didn't race the 100 and the 5K in college at a competitive level or if you did that's some range.

I don't begrudge anyone that doesn't want to double their distance athletes. I begrudge someone telling me I can't.

The stupidity of the rule is evidenced in many ways. Here are a few: 1) HS athletes will race at 5K all during XC - the same load if they doubled a mile / 2 mile 2) if it's to protect athletes from doing too much or what others perceive as an overzealous coach - then how is that monitored in training, should there be mileage limits for al to adhere to 3) it's inconsistent with what is done on our state level where at the relay meets someone could double mile in a 4 x mile and DMR or distance race and 4 x 8 at championship meets and finally for now 4) there are plenty of athletes capable of doing this at certain dual meets without even working as hard as they do in workouts, the BSC list alone of the last 10 years would be staggering.

[Warren Harding]

How do you define sprints and distance? I'm guessing you didn't race the 100 and the 5K in college at a competitive level or if you did that's some range.

I don't begrudge anyone that doesn't want to double their distance athletes. I begrudge someone telling me I can't.

The stupidity of the rule is evidenced in many ways. Here are a few: 1) HS athletes will race at 5K all during XC - the same load if they doubled a mile / 2 mile 2) if it's to protect athletes from doing too much or what others perceive as an overzealous coach - then how is that monitored in training, should there be mileage limits for al to adhere to 3) it's inconsistent with what is done on our state level where at the relay meets someone could double mile in a 4 x mile and DMR or distance race and 4 x 8 at championship meets and finally for now 4) there are plenty of athletes capable of doing this at certain dual meets without even working as hard as they do in workouts, the BSC list alone of the last 10 years would be staggering.

I'm sure my input is of little importance, but I agree. Distance doubling, at least the maximum you can do (Mile and 2 Mile), is not even equivilent to the distance of most xc courses. It's close, but not there. Even if both are at a faster clip, which is to say that you are working pretty hard in both, Warrior is right; it still isn't as tough as some workouts many athletes have done. The point is whether or not you're allowed to, it's still up to the coaches and athletes decision to do it. But, the option should be there.

[Old Blue Eyes]

On the Saturday before the Div.1 race my guys ran the course twice all out with 20 min. rest. Nobody had a heart attack and I think the workout had something to do with their improvement in the Div. 1 race. Should I have been prevented from doing this?

[TedB]

Define "all out" (i.e. did Hamilton run 16:31 both times)?

P.S. My answer to your question is certainly "no". I'm just curious about the workout.

[mcrun33]

Warrior- I agree with all you have said, but as a dissenting coach, I should explain my position, which is admittedly selfish. I don't want to double my own distance athltes in dual meets, mostly to keep them fresh for the times when they need to give an extra effort (I realize one could say a dual could be used to practice for the 1000/ 4x800 double, but I'm not so sure how often I'd want that done).

So, if I don't want to do it, but my opponent is allowed to, I'm at a competitive disadvantage with my kids' ability to win a meet if, say, Gellineau runs mile/ 2 mile, but Corcoran can't (because of MY philosophy). Plus, I like the idea of needing as many kids as possible to help win a meet. I love the move to 1-1-1 because it will punish teams who only have 1-2 studs and no depth. Anything to make track seem like a more team-oriented sport.

Perfect example- if you had the distance double last winter, you could have used 3 guys to score 24 points from the 1000-2 mile in every single meet. Throw in a good 55/300 guy, the meet is basically over, and your point-scorers could fit in an Audi. Now, BLine had plenty of depth, and wasn't in that boat, but you know what I'm saying.

Going to 1-1-1 really allows teams with depth to win most meets. I totally see your point about doubling, but that's just where I was coming from when I dissented.

[mcrun33]

On the Saturday before the Div.1 race my guys ran the course twice all out with 20 min. rest. Nobody had a heart attack and I think the workout had something to do with their improvement in the Div. 1 race. Should I have been prevented from doing this?

That's a nasty workout. I was too busy being at state coaches, wasting my JV kids' time with an 8K disaster.

[Warrior]

On the Saturday before the Div.1 race my guys ran the course twice all out with 20 min. rest. Nobody had a heart attack and I think the workout had something to do with their improvement in the Div. 1 race. Should I have been prevented from doing this?

I'd love to know times of the workouts as well. Given their perfiormance I may do this from now on.

I do believe in general coaches back off / taper training too much especially in high school. Also some go to shorter quicker at end when I think longer is better - relates more closely to race effort / simulation.

[Warrior]

Warrior- I agree with all you have said, but as a dissenting coach, I should explain my position, which is admittedly selfish. I don't want to double my own distance athltes in dual meets, mostly to keep them fresh for the times when they need to give an extra effort (I realize one could say a dual could be used to practice for the 1000/ 4x800 double, but I'm not so sure how often I'd want that done).

So, if I don't want to do it, but my opponent is allowed to, I'm at a competitive disadvantage with my kids' ability to win a meet if, say, Gellineau runs mile/ 2 mile, but Corcoran can't (because of MY philosophy). Plus, I like the idea of needing as many kids as possible to help win a meet. I love the move to 1-1-1 because it will punish teams who only have 1-2 studs and no depth. Anything to make track seem like a more team-oriented sport.

Perfect example- if you had the distance double last winter, you could have used 3 guys to score 24 points from the 1000-2 mile in every single meet. Throw in a good 55/300 guy, the meet is basically over, and your point-scorers could fit in an Audi. Now, BLine had plenty of depth, and wasn't in that boat, but you know what I'm saying.

Going to 1-1-1 really allows teams with depth to win most meets. I totally see your point about doubling, but that's just where I was coming from when I dissented.

Unfortunately in one very important meet I couldn't get one specific guy / my best guy to score 5 points in the 1000.

[mcrun33]

Unfortunately in one very important meet I couldn't get one specific guy / my best guy to score 5 points in the 1000.

Zing

[Warren Harding]

that was a low blow. anyway, never fear, I'll get it this year.:D

[Old Blue Eyes]

I'd love to know times of the workouts as well. Given their perfiormance I may do this from now on.

I do believe in general coaches back off / taper training too much especially in high school. Also some go to shorter quicker at end when I think longer is better - relates more closely to race effort / simulation.

Hamilton led both times.The 1st was 17:10; the 2nd was 18:20's. The others were spread out after him. One could not finish, or more precisely, didn't want to finish.(talk about having no compassion).

[Warrior]

that was a low blow. anyway, never fear, I'll get it this year.:D

It wasn't a low blow - it's what happened. Just pointing out the assumption we could score at will in the distances was not all together true last year.

I did understand his point however.

As for you. Let's get you so you can come out of the house without contaminating anyone before we start saying what we're going to do next season.

OBE thanks for the info. and again Good Luck this weekend.

[bcal92]

If you want to reward depth versus talent, there are better ways of doing it than the 1-1-1 rule.

Score dual meets 5-3-2-1.

What would 1-1-1 do to hurdlers in the spring? Or shot-discus guys? Long-triple guys - like Irvin Scott? How will the smaller teams do in those cases? 1-1-1 is a solution in search of a problem.

[Old Blue Eyes]

Warrior- I agree with all you have said, but as a dissenting coach, I should explain my position, which is admittedly selfish. I don't want to double my own distance athltes in dual meets, mostly to keep them fresh for the times when they need to give an extra effort (I realize one could say a dual could be used to practice for the 1000/ 4x800 double, but I'm not so sure how often I'd want that done).

So, if I don't want to do it, but my opponent is allowed to, I'm at a competitive disadvantage with my kids' ability to win a meet if, say, Gellineau runs mile/ 2 mile, but Corcoran can't (because of MY philosophy). Plus, I like the idea of needing as many kids as possible to help win a meet. I love the move to 1-1-1 because it will punish teams who only have 1-2 studs and no depth. Anything to make track seem like a more team-oriented sport.

Perfect example- if you had the distance double last winter, you could have used 3 guys to score 24 points from the 1000-2 mile in every single meet. Throw in a good 55/300 guy, the meet is basically over, and your point-scorers could fit in an Audi. Now, BLine had plenty of depth, and wasn't in that boat, but you know what I'm saying.

Going to 1-1-1 really allows teams with depth to win most meets. I totally see your point about doubling, but that's just where I was coming from when I dissented.

From your perspective, your vote makes sense. And I'm glad that it's not for you a matter of not trusting coaches to make their own decisions, but rather a decision by you of not being at a scoring disadvantage. I still would disagree with your premise that your kids would be harmed in any way by doubling. Sollowin (spelling?) couldn't run the mile and 2 mile (2 hrs. apart)? I know Matt is the guy's coach.

[jim]

What would 1-1-1 do to hurdlers in the spring? Or shot-discus guys? Long-triple guys - like Irvin Scott? How will the smaller teams do in those cases? 1-1-1 is a solution in search of a problem.

1-1-1 is for indoors only.

[Warrior]

If you want to reward depth versus talent, there are better ways of doing it than the 1-1-1 rule.

Score dual meets 5-3-2-1.

What would 1-1-1 do to hurdlers in the spring? Or shot-discus guys? Long-triple guys - like Irvin Scott? How will the smaller teams do in those cases? 1-1-1 is a solution in search of a problem.

Get off the 1-1-1 thing and put in your 2 cents for the double distance.

[hayesc]

Can't you do 2 field at EMASS but not 2 running as it is right now? I'm not sure if I remember correctly but I think that was the rule a few years ago. Not that its 100% relevant to this discussion but, yeah...

I remember wanting to do 200/300h but it was either 200/LJ or LJ/TJ - I always found that funny. Sam Pegram was 3rd in TJ and 1st in LJ @ EMASS Class C 2006 ... why couldn't someone like Darius Walker have run 100/200 or Matt Callanan 110hh/300h. Is this any different? If you take 3 run through jumps in each jumping event and then 6 jumps after that (let's say your approach is 115 feet), each time you make an approach you are running 35 meters. So, we have 9x35m per event which totals 630m total of running. So, hypothetically speaking this would be akin to a 200/400 double. Why can't that be allowed? As always, I know logic isn't a huge deal when it comes to the MIAA/MSTCA

edit: after posting this I realized that i have a longer approach than most, so even if you say 100 feet as a baseline it ends up being about 550 meters... you get the gist

[EatPastaRunFasta]

Unfortunately in one very important meet I couldn't get one specific guy / my best guy to score 5 points in the 1000.

hahaha

[Winston]

Unfortunately in one very important meet I couldn't get one specific guy / my best guy to score 5 points in the 1000.

hahaha

Thanks guys:)
why don't i just go throw myself off a cliff

[Warrior]

hahaha

Oh Oh. Word is going to get to Austin now.

[Warrior]

Can't you do 2 field at EMASS but not 2 running as it is right now? I'm not sure if I remember correctly but I think that was the rule a few years ago. Not that its 100% relevant to this discussion but, yeah...

I remember wanting to do 200/300h but it was either 200/LJ or LJ/TJ - I always found that funny. Sam Pegram was 3rd in TJ and 1st in LJ @ EMASS Class C 2006 ... why couldn't someone like Darius Walker have run 100/200 or Matt Callanan 110hh/300h. Is this any different? If you take 3 run through jumps in each jumping event and then 6 jumps after that (let's say your approach is 115 feet), each time you make an approach you are running 35 meters. So, we have 9x35m per event which totals 630m total of running. So, hypothetically speaking this would be akin to a 200/400 double. Why can't that be allowed? As always, I know logic isn't a huge deal when it comes to the MIAA/MSTCA

edit: after posting this I realized that i have a longer approach than most, so even if you say 100 feet as a baseline it ends up being about 550 meters... you get the gist

The MIAA rule is a hybrid of the NFHS rules which calls for 1-1-1 in championship meets for the purpose of leveling the playing field and not having one athlete dominate for the team scoring. It's not about in this case believing it's too much for an athlete to handle. But thanks for all the math.
1-1-1 still favors sprinters who are more apt to race, jump and relay. The MSTCA made a proposal to the MIAA several years ago now which was adopted as 1-1-1 or 2FE mostly thinking about the throwing double but acknowledging the jumping doubles too. Most jumpers probably have a running specialty as well but there are those that are really best at just jumping.

Of course there are many states that ignore the NFHS rules altogether and allow much more participation at their championship meets. Does any other sport ignore National Federation rules more from state to state? Akin to football deciding on canadien rules instead.

[Warren Harding]

Thanks guys:)
why don't i just go throw myself off a cliff

I still love you <3

[Mercury08]

Thanks guys:)
why don't i just go throw myself off a cliff

actually he was talking about me don't flatter yourself

[xcrunna]

Hamilton led both times.The 1st was 17:10; the 2nd was 18:20's. The others were spread out after him. One could not finish, or more precisely, didn't want to finish.(talk about having no compassion).
I think I would've been that kid. That would not have been a pretty workout for me back in HS. Impressive for Hamilton. He must really "get" that course by now.

[Old Blue Eyes]

How does one whose team wins the league title with an 11-0 record, wins the League Meet, finishes their 4th consecutive undefeated season, after winning the All State Title not get picked as coach of the year? Didn't get it last year either. Can't figure that one out. I know Warrior is not losing any sleep over it and no reflection on Tim Giblin of Walpole, who did a great job, but Warrior deserved it. The girl's coaches got it right in picking Dale Snyder whose team was undefeated at 11-0.

[Warrior]

How does one whose team wins the league title with an 11-0 record, wins the League Meet, finishes their 4th consecutive undefeated season, after winning the All State Title not get picked as coach of the year? Didn't get it last year either. Can't figure that one out. I know Warrior is not losing any sleep over it and no reflection on Tim Giblin of Walpole, who did a great job, but Warrior deserved it. The girl's coaches got it right in picking Dale Snyder whose team was undefeated at 11-0.

He's unlikable.

Thanks OBE. I've gotten plenty of credit over the years. Tim did a great job this year and deserves the recognition. HIS team made it to All States. I didn't get the job done there. Heck I couldn't make sure the best or at least one of the best guys in the state made it to the starting line when it counted. Lots of good things this season at Brookline but some wish I could've done better.

[mcrun33]

He's unlikable.

Thanks OBE. I've gotten plenty of credit over the years. Tim did a great job this year and deserves the recognition. HIS team made it to All States. I didn't get the job done there. Heck I couldn't make sure the best or at least one of the best guys in the state made it to the starting line when it counted. Lots of good things this season at Brookline but some wish I could've done better.

I agree that Warrior deserves credit for a job well done this season. But let's talk about the Walpole boys for a second. They went from 10th to 4th in D3's and made it to all states for the 1st time. They went 7-4 in the top-heavy BSC.

Warrior did a great job and won the BSC meet again, but if we always voted for the coach of the team that goes 11-0, why have the award?

Likewise, I think it's a travesty that Dennis Driscoll has yet to win this award (not that Martin, Pearlman, and now Snyder didnt deserve it). The Natick girls went 10-1 with new blood in the #2, 4, 5, and 7 spots, and placed 3rd in the BSC meet. Now, I voted for Dale, but Dennis has to have been runner-up 4 straight years. Shouldn't longevity be good for something?

[Old Blue Eyes]

I agree that Warrior deserves credit for a job well done this season. But let's talk about the Walpole boys for a second. They went from 10th to 4th in D3's and made it to all states for the 1st time. They went 7-4 in the top-heavy BSC, and they did all this while dealing with internal issues that need not be disclosed.

Warrior did a great job and won the BSC meet again, but if we always voted for the coach of the team that goes 11-0, why have the award?

Likewise, I think it's a travesty that Dennis Driscoll has yet to win this award (not that Martin, Pearlman, and now Snyder didnt deserve it). The Natick girls went 10-1 with new blood in the #2, 4, 5, and 7 spots, and placed 3rd in the BSC meet. Now, I voted for Dale, but Dennis has to have been runner-up 4 straight years. Shouldn't longevity be good for something?

Always? How about once?

[mcrun33]

Always? How about once?

2005- Brookline 11-0 (Glennon)
2006- Brookline 11-0 (Glennon)
2007- Needham 10-1? (Healey)
2008- Walpole 7-4 (Giblin)

2005- Weymouth 11-0 (Miller)
2006- Newton North 11-0 (Martin)
2007- Wellesley 11-0 (Pearlman)
208- Milton 11-0 (Snyder)

6 out of 8 ain't bad

[Old Blue Eyes]

I agree that Warrior deserves credit for a job well done this season. But let's talk about the Walpole boys for a second. They went from 10th to 4th in D3's and made it to all states for the 1st time. They went 7-4 in the top-heavy BSC, and they did all this while dealing with internal issues that need not be disclosed.

Warrior did a great job and won the BSC meet again, but if we always voted for the coach of the team that goes 11-0, why have the award?

Likewise, I think it's a travesty that Dennis Driscoll has yet to win this award (not that Martin, Pearlman, and now Snyder didnt deserve it). The Natick girls went 10-1 with new blood in the #2, 4, 5, and 7 spots, and placed 3rd in the BSC meet. Now, I voted for Dale, but Dennis has to have been runner-up 4 straight years. Shouldn't longevity be good for something?

We should not have the award. Discontinue it as the Middlesex League did years ago I remember after Hal Croft who is the coach of the century never got picked. Since there is no fair and objective way to evaluate who did the best job of coaching the coach whose team wins should get it because we know how good a job he did. Unless he took over a program at the last minute which was developed by someone else, the league winner had the most success.

[Old Blue Eyes]

2005- Brookline 11-0 (Glennon)
2006- Brookline 11-0 (Glennon)
2007- Needham 10-1? (Healey)
2008- Walpole 7-4 (Giblin)

2005- Weymouth 11-0 (Miller)
2006- Newton North 11-0 (Martin)
2007- Wellesley 11-0 (Pearlman)
208- Milton 11-0 (Snyder)

6 out of 8 ain't bad

Don't remember voting in 05 and 06. Maybe Warrior can verify.

[Warrior]

Don't remember voting in 05 and 06. Maybe Warrior can verify.

mcrun is correct I believe in his recount of the coach of the year awards. I have the 2005 plaque in my office - don't remember getting one in '06.

I think it is a good idea. Coach Snyder brought it up and funds it - thanks to Dale for that.

I think it is good to spread around. While we don't know exactly what happens in each other's programs on a daily basis, I think we all talk enough and watch each other to appreciate who's done a good job. There are a lot a good coaches in our league. It's great that we can recognize that with the award.

Obviously since it's a new award, if we just gave it to the undefeated team then I would have always gotten it. I've been lucky to have a very talented group the last few years who make me look good. There are alot of coaches who do a great job and deserve the recognition. I think tremendous jobs were done by alot this year but especially Tim, Lou ( who may have a state champion team ) and OBE this year with their teams.

[Old Blue Eyes]

Don't remember voting in 05 and 06. Maybe Warrior can verify.

Guess you are right MCRUN. The voting probably took place at end of year meetings which I missed, instead of at the league meet. Anyway, that explains why Warrior was overlooked the past 2 years, even though he deserved it, because coaches didn't want to vote for the same person everyyear. Spread the wealth around I guess. However, another reason to not have it if the one who deserves it most is disqualified because he has won it too much.

[Rorschach]

mcrun, i have to correct something you said. walpole won the state div. ii title in 1991 & 1992, won the class in 1972, 1985, & 1986. i know they qualified as a team in 1997 (finishing 2nd in the class to andy powell & oliver ames in div. iii) & there were a few other walpole teams in the 80s & 90s that qualified as well (unfortunately coolrunning doesn't go back that far), so while it's been a long time, this was far from the first time walpole has qualified as a team. best of luck to everyone who's running tomorrow.

[mcrun33]

mcrun, i have to correct something you said. walpole won the state div. ii title in 1991 & 1992, won the class in 1972, 1985, & 1986. i know they qualified as a team in 1997 (finishing 2nd in the class to andy powell & oliver ames in div. iii) & there were a few other walpole teams in the 80s & 90s that qualified as well (unfortunately coolrunning doesn't go back that far), so while it's been a long time, this was far from the first time walpole has qualified as a team. best of luck to everyone who's running tomorrow.

I meant for the 1st time with you as its coach... sorry

[mcrun33]

Not that this is BSC news, but the changing alignments will really shift the balance of power in D1 girls next fall. Westford Academy and Franklin are two strong teams year in and year out and are moving up. Gone are the days like in 2001 when Lexington was so good, but Peabody makes it in 5th with 3 girls in the 21:00's (I know Chelmsford did this year, but that course was SLOW). Or in 2003 when Lexington made it with a 19:52-20:52-21:15-21:52-22:00 squad). You are going to need chops to get in each year from now on.

[Raiderade 09]

hey everybody, i just wanna say good job to everyone from the BSC today at All-States. We had some amazing races by some awesome athletes (particularly rebecca white, camille murphy, and leah gellineau, 5th, 13th and 14th in Div I!), a few disappointments, and some unforeseen surprises, but overall it was a good day all around. Congrats to all on a great 2008 XC season. it was truly one for the ages.

Good luck to everyone this winter, first indoor meet is on december 11th, get psyched!

[Warrior]

Congrats as well to all the participated. Anyone running in this meet should be proud.

DI girl's medalists Rebecca White, Camille Murphy, and Leah Gellineau
DII Girl's Wellesley 3rd and Milton 7th

DIII boys Wellesley 3rd & Walpole 4th

Great job by all. I'm sure the Wellesley boys are disappopinted after pulling it out last week but they had a great season. Walpole boys really stayed focused and fought to the end of the season to have a great race.

All should be proud. Great XC season for the BSC.

[farmer]

BSC indoor records for girls: http://natickit.home.comcast.net/~natickit/bsc_records.htm

Does not contain 50y Dash, 50y Hurdles, 300y, 600y and 1000y marks from the "old" days. If I get a chance in the future, I'll try to update those.

[BananaFerret]

are those records only including BSC meets, or invitationals as well?

[Warrior]

are those records only including BSC meets, or invitationals as well?

Just BSC.

[Phantom Cause]

anyone have a link to them?

[mcrun33]

anyone have a link to them?

Mile- Jim Keohane (Dedham 1983) 4:23.1
1000- Jonathon Riley (Brookline 1997) 2:26.1
600- Kobie Fuller (Milton 1998) 1:22.7
300- Dan King (Newton North 2003) 35.0
2 mile- Chris Barnicle (Newton North 2004) 9:18.5
55m hurdles- Luke Marsters (Norwood 1998) 7.3
55m dash- Anton McCatty (Wellesley 1996) 6.2
High Jump- Jordan Maddocks (Framingham 2007) 6'9"
Shot Put- Ed Sinnott (Dedham 1975) 57'2"
4x400m relay- Milton (1998) 3:24.7
4x440y relay- Dedham (1980) 3:27.4

[Smitty]

Mile- Jim Keohane (Dedham 1983) 4:23.1
1000- Jonathon Riley (Brookline 1997) 2:26.1
600- Kobie Fuller (Milton 1998) 1:22.7
300- Dan King (Newton North 2003) 35.0
2 mile- Chris Barnicle (Newton North 2004) 9:18.5
55m hurdles- Luke Marsters (Norwood 1998) 7.3
55m dash- Anton McCatty (Wellesley 1996) 6.2
High Jump- Jordan Maddocks (Framingham 2007) 6'9"
Shot Put- Ed Sinnott (Dedham 1975) 57'2"
4x400m relay- Milton (1998) 3:24.7
4x440y relay- Dedham (1980) 3:27.4

That mile seems really weak in comparison to all the others.

[BOSTON26.2]

That mile seems really weak in comparison to all the others.
Keohane ran that time on the BU track at the old Commonwealth Armory so it's actually pretty good. If I'm not mistaken, he still has the Class D record at 4:17.3.

[mcrun33]

That mile seems really weak in comparison to all the others.

True, when you consider that Barnicle, Riley, Gibson, etc have come through and not broken it. Kind of surprising.

[Warrior]

That mile seems really weak in comparison to all the others.

Seems like the shot is weak too. I thought some people over the last few years had thrown that far.

BU track was very fast.

[Mercury08]

Seems like the shot is weak too. I thought some people over the last few years had thrown that far.

BU track was very fast.

that was a track? i thought that was just lines painted on the floor.

[Bailey91]

I miss the old BU track...dingy, rats...McDonalds across the street...

[Warrior]

that was a track? i thought that was just lines painted on the floor.

At one time it was a line painted on the inside rail and that was it. But even an old man like me only ran there like that a few times. The track which had a world record / best run on it was puit up in 1978 I believe in the middle of the season

[BOSTON26.2]

I miss the old BU track...dingy, rats...McDonalds across the street...

Yeah, the place was a dump, but the track was pretty nice. I remember the turns were VERY high.
And there were the knuckleheads who would chow down at McDonald's before their race...:eek:

[rebeljumper]

That old track is one of my first memories of wanting to do the sport (other then watching the 96 Olympics). I used to have basketball tournaments in "The Shed" and would always walk over to the track and run around those high banked turns.

[Warrior]

That old track is one of my first memories of wanting to do the sport (other then watching the 96 Olympics). I used to have basketball tournaments in "The Shed" and would always walk over to the track and run around those high banked turns.

Mine too. But my memories go back to when it was just the concrete floor and painted lines and there were still tanks surrounding the track. I used to go to my dad's teams meets in the TCL there when I was younger than my son is now.

[MC Hurdler]

Yeah...BU's old track was the best sprinting track in the nation. No doubt about it! It was so fast that NCAA Qual Times had to be adjusted. Man, I miss that track...
But to BUs credit, the new track is really fast too.

[Old fart]

My club went to the Armory Track the day after Christmas in 1994. The lights had been turned off since the school was on break and when we flipped the switch, you could hear rats scurrying off in all directions. Then there was the time I was leaning over at the water fountain getting a drink, I looked over to see a rat perched on a heating pipe, staring at me. Then there was the time we were running our cooldown on the flat floor outside the track and a rat jogged alongside us for about 30 yards, hugging the edge of the wall.

Topping them all is the story my former club coach, Bob Sevene, told us. In the early to mid-'80s he and Dave Hemery, both BU coaches at the time, went down into the lower levels of the Armory, underneath the track. They were in a sub-basement that used to be horse stables. Sev shined a flashlight down the dark passage and saw dozens of pairs of red eyes looking back at him.

The late lamented track was great, even though it acquired some dead spots in the last few years of its use. Ran my 5k PR there, seven seconds behind Tom McArdle. That being said, I like BU's new facility even more.

[Warrior]

No coaching this year?

[Weezy]

I transferred to Tulane
Can't handle being 49.02
Need help figuring things out
At the very least I'm gonna come in and whoop Troy and all the other kids a few times to see if I still got it
Talk Thanksgivingish?

[Old Blue Eyes]

I transferred to Tulane
Can't handle being 49.02
Need help figuring things out
At the very least I'm gonna come in and whoop Troy and all the other kids a few times to see if I still got it
Talk Thanksgivingish?

Glad you stepped up Weezy. I'll tell Troy to get ready. You might have trouble with Ben Kiley and even Sam, as well.

[Warrior]

I transferred to Tulane
Can't handle being 49.02
Need help figuring things out
At the very least I'm gonna come in and whoop Troy and all the other kids a few times to see if I still got it
Talk Thanksgivingish?

Bline over NN on Tday for sure this year.

[Old Blue Eyes]

Bline over NN on Tday for sure this year.

Maybe Ben Kiley can pull another one out as he did last year. He has been catching some long bombs. Hope his indoor season is as productive.

[Warrior]

Maybe Ben Kiley can pull another one out as he did last year. He has been catching some long bombs. Hope his indoor season is as productive.

Last year certainly was a close and exciting game. Going to NY with the family so I'll miss this year.

Hopefully the Bline track footballers can pull it out and not get hurt.

[Glue548]

Needham is going to absolutely slaughter Wellesley in both the PowderPuff game and the real thanksgiving game.

No contest, in my opinion. Baptiste has been in fine form as of late and our WRs are far too fast for their corners to cover. Plus, our PowerderPuff QB is the single most athletic girl of all time.

Ferret and his school are going down.

[Warrior]

Needham is going to absolutely slaughter Wellesley in both the PowderPuff game and the real thanksgiving game.

No contest, in my opinion. Baptiste has been in fine form as of late and our WRs are far too fast for their corners to cover. Plus, our PowerderPuff QB is the single most athletic girl of all time.

Ferret and his school are going down.

Glue are you in the PowderPuff game?

[Glue548]

I wish.
No, unfortunately I will be relegated to simply watching our girls beat on the physically inferior Wellesley women.

[BananaFerret]

I wish.
No, unfortunately I will be relegated to simply watching our girls beat on the physically inferior Wellesley women.

QFE

I heard you guys did it in gym class, and had tryouts? Most of the girls in Wellesley have made 1/5 of the practices because they often "don't feel like it."

And Wellesley regular football sucks.

So I can agree with you there.

You gonna be at powderpuff?

[Glue548]

Yeah, i'll be there for the slaughter.
Sorry to hear about your girls' lack of enthusiasm.
Yeah, we spent the last two weeks playing football and designing plays in gym for PowderPuff. They're pretty intense.

Anyways, I'll see you there, and I assume I'll also see you at Memorial for the game on Thursday.

[BananaFerret]

I'll be in the pep band :X

Multiple talents FTW!

[Glue548]

That's cool!
Me and Newf are doing a hilarious XC skit for the pep rally

[mcchesneysteven]

Congratulations Bay State League for a very successful cross country season!

On Monday I took Warrior out to dinner as pay off for the BSL girls beating the DCL in a 5 team scoring format. He enjoyed his dinner on me as I actually saluted each team in the BSL one at a time. We had a fun night.

Good luck in coming seasons,
Still a proud member of the DCL.

[mcrun33]

Congratulations Bay State League for a very successful cross country season!

On Monday I took Warrior out to dinner as pay off for the BSL girls beating the DCL in a 5 team scoring format. He enjoyed his dinner on me as I actually saluted each team in the BSL one at a time. We had a fun night.

Good luck in coming seasons,
Still a proud member of the DCL.

I'd like to hear your salute to the Weymouth girls team please.

Could have used it Sunday at the banquet.

[Warrior]

I'd like to hear your salute to the Weymouth girls team please.

Could have used it Sunday at the banquet.

I don't think we got down as far as Weymouth in the salutes as we went in order of finish at EMASS.

Maybe if you pull of that big win Indoor he'll come to that banquet.:)

[mcrun33]

I don't think we got down as far as Weymouth in the salutes as we went in order of finish at EMASS.

Maybe if you pull of that big win Indoor he'll come to that banquet.:)

Ouch.... we certainly should be a top 5 team at All States indoors on paper. Now if only they can get a coach....

[Warrior]

Ouch.... we certainly should be a top 5 team at All States indoors on paper. Now if only they can get a coach....

I think the Weymouth girls team looks great for indoor track and their coach is BIG .............reason why.

[19.32BSC]

Coaches-
I was interested in the logic and thinking behind the 1-1-1 change for us in the BSC this year. Obviously it passed overwhelmingly, I'm not sure I totally understand the strong sentiment behind the change. I see the two major arguments for it as 1. equity between sprints and distance and 2. more varsity participation. I think there are a few concerns though.
One being that last year there were teams that didn't fill their varsity spots and that is now going to increase as it will now take 39 athletes to fill all the spots in the meet. We are going to have more empty lanes and spots in meets.
Athletes can now not double field events so when we are preparing for state relays HJers we need for scoring can't get live jumping work in on the runway which will be a great concern when you only get two jumps in the relay meets, at which teams in our league are often highly competitive.
Obviously I missed the meeting and I'm just trying to get the other perspective to understand the movement to this change.

[Warrior]

Coaches-
I was interested in the logic and thinking behind the 1-1-1 change for us in the BSC this year. Obviously it passed overwhelmingly, I'm not sure I totally understand the strong sentiment behind the change. I see the two major arguments for it as 1. equity between sprints and distance and 2. more varsity participation. I think there are a few concerns though.
One being that last year there were teams that didn't fill their varsity spots and that is now going to increase as it will now take 39 athletes to fill all the spots in the meet. We are going to have more empty lanes and spots in meets.
Athletes can now not double field events so when we are preparing for state relays HJers we need for scoring can't get live jumping work in on the runway which will be a great concern when you only get two jumps in the relay meets, at which teams in our league are often highly competitive.
Obviously I missed the meeting and I'm just trying to get the other perspective to understand the movement to this change.


Any change would go into effect next year 2009-10 I believe. You are correct in the rationale.

The LJ is a nonscoring event so your description of live practice is accurate. Not sure practicing at meets should be a concern. Scoring the event is another discussion. The other FE double of HJ / shot is rare but I'm sure Smitty can pipe in on that.

To say it takes 39 athetes is disingenous I beileve. That would include 3 slots for the LJ to start. It would indicate the number of slots available to a team to use different individuals in every event - including not doubling anyone from field event to running event. Not sure why you didn't go up 4 more to say all the relay participants should be different as well.

The real effect would be limiting the natural sprint doubles from the 300 down - the events where participation is limited the most by lane availability. Judging by the number of athletes that are racing around the track in the JV 200s and 400s I believe that those lanes could be filled by most teams.

[19.32BSC]

I understand that the impact will be on the 300/55 and Dash/Hurdles double. I do believe there will be some empty lanes. Even though we get hordes of runners in the JV events-they probably represent about 3/4 or less of the teams. If you look at JV results from last year in the dash the most teams that ever had participants was 8 leaving four teams at a minimum without any extra sprinters.
The FE event issue I meant to bring up was that you can't HJ and LJ. Even though LJ isn't scored it is still a official event and therefore I assume this counts as participation. Therefore any HJers who will be a part of a teams LJ relay would have to sacrifice scoring in a meet or two to get LJ work in to prepare for state relays. Thats where I see the rule hurting us a little bit. Not a major issue but it makes coaches make some choices.
I was just surprised by the overwhelming support the change got and was looking to see exactly why so many supported it. As we've seen with other proposed changes a majority that strong is hard to come by.

[HighJumpAMile]

Middlesex league has this same indoor rule and allows HJ/LJ double because only one is scoring.

[Warrior]

I understand that the impact will be on the 300/55 and Dash/Hurdles double. I do believe there will be some empty lanes. Even though we get hordes of runners in the JV events-they probably represent about 3/4 or less of the teams. If you look at JV results from last year in the dash the most teams that ever had participants was 8 leaving four teams at a minimum without any extra sprinters.
The FE event issue I meant to bring up was that you can't HJ and LJ. Even though LJ isn't scored it is still a official event and therefore I assume this counts as participation. Therefore any HJers who will be a part of a teams LJ relay would have to sacrifice scoring in a meet or two to get LJ work in to prepare for state relays. Thats where I see the rule hurting us a little bit. Not a major issue but it makes coaches make some choices.
I was just surprised by the overwhelming support the change got and was looking to see exactly why so many supported it. As we've seen with other proposed changes a majority that strong is hard to come by.

I believe there were people that supported one or both rationale you mentioned. The vote also followed a vote regarding instituting the double distance alternative which was roundly defeated. Some argued against it because of the participation while others seem to believe it is too much for an athlete to handle. Those arguing about partcipation could certainly not rationalize anyhting but 1-1-1 therefore.

I believe people feel very differently about how the participation rules should work for outdoor.

[mcrun33]

I actually think an addendum could be added to allow the HJ/ LJ double, since LJ is a non-scoring event...

[19.32BSC]

I guess it is logical in that sense if you won't vote for distance doubles how can you support sprint doubles. Though sprinters do have to run rounds at state meets but they can still double in 4x4. The rule should make our relays more competitive.
The structure of indoor, especially in the era of user fees, does support restrictions to increase participation. Though I don't think it will make a huge difference as I looked back at Natick, and we're about as sprint heavy as you get, last year and we only doubled 5 sprinters all year between hurdles/300/ and dash and those spots likely will be taken up by the ones who were running relays. The one double I would have liked to work in the future was 600/hurdles with our 400 hurdlers for outdoor training. Looks like that won't work for long.

[mcrun33]

I guess it is logical in that sense if you won't vote for distance doubles how can you support sprint doubles. Though sprinters do have to run rounds at state meets but they can still double in 4x4. The rule should make our relays more competitive.
The structure of indoor, especially in the era of user fees, does support restrictions to increase participation. Though I don't think it will make a huge difference as I looked back at Natick, and we're about as sprint heavy as you get, last year and we only doubled 5 sprinters all year between hurdles/300/ and dash and those spots likely will be taken up by the ones who were running relays. The one double I would have liked to work in the future was 600/hurdles with our 400 hurdlers for outdoor training. Looks like that won't work for long.

Coach- I had some of the same worries. However, that 600/HH double is really tough to pull off (HH is RIGHT after the 600), as is the 300/HH double (virtually impossible since they're at the same time). The obvious ones are 300/55 and 55/HH.

I like your point about the relays being more competitive though. In tight meets you really might see some blazing fast times with all of those 300 kids having another race left.

I was really pulling for a 4x200. But that got shot down right away.

[Warrior]

Coach- I had some of the same worries. However, that 600/HH double is really tough to pull off (HH is RIGHT after the 600), as is the 300/HH double (virtually impossible since they're at the same time). The obvious ones are 300/55 and 55/HH.

I like your point about the relays being more competitive though. In tight meets you really might see some blazing fast times with all of those 300 kids having another race left.

I was really pulling for a 4x200. But that got shot down right away.

Deja vu all over again.

Isn't the 300 after the 600 and the HH after the 300 - not at the same time? Lots of good intermediate hurdlers back on the guys side this year for outdoors. Racing all of the above at different times will help them.

[Bailey91]

The 300m/55hh is the tough one because of timing...I rememer having to pull back and not double a hurdle in the 300 because the hurdles hame right after the 300; however, the 600-55hh double is doable with the time in between for rest...

With the 1-1-1 rule I think more meets will be over before the relay, and maybe seeing more coaches pull a quality relay team out, and put in a lesser team for experience...

On a side note, as a hurdles guy, I am dead set against the 400IH in the spring...

[Old Blue Eyes]

The 300m/55hh is the tough one because of timing...I rememer having to pull back and not double a hurdle in the 300 because the hurdles hame right after the 300; however, the 600-55hh double is doable with the time in between for rest...

With the 1-1-1 rule I think more meets will be over before the relay, and maybe seeing more coaches pull a quality relay team out, and put in a lesser team for experience...

On a side note, as a hurdles guy, I am dead set against the 400IH in the spring...

Why are you against the 400 hurdlers?

[Bailey91]

Why are you against the 400 hurdlers?

Phrased it wrong...at the high school level i am against the 400 IH...college and above I like the event...

[Raiderade 09]

Phrased it wrong...at the high school level i am against the 400 IH...college and above I like the event...

But if you run the 400H in high school, then you're better prepared to run the same race when you get to college, so personally I think it's a good idea to do 400 instead of 300

It'd be a stretch, but IMO having the 4x8 at dual meets would be great

[Warrior]

But if you run the 400H in high school, then you're better prepared to run the same race when you get to college, so personally I think it's a good idea to do 400 instead of 300

It'd be a stretch, but IMO having the 4x8 at dual meets would be greatWould be tough to do the 4 x 8 at duals. Besides with the way the double distance rule is in the league, you'd need 4 either doubling 400 then back or 4 new kids since racing a mile or / 2 mile and then an 800 would be way too much for anyone to handle. :rolleyes:

[Old Blue Eyes]

Phrased it wrong...at the high school level i am against the 400 IH...college and above I like the event...

Why are you against the 400 hurdles in h.s.?

[mcrun33]

But if you run the 400H in high school, then you're better prepared to run the same race when you get to college, so personally I think it's a good idea to do 400 instead of 300

It'd be a stretch, but IMO having the 4x8 at dual meets would be great

I see time being an issue there (20 minutes added on)

As it stands, distance runners make up a pretty good chunk of the scoring. What about a 4x200?

[TedB]

As it stands, distance runners make up a pretty good chunk of the scoring.

3 events? (That's assuming you consider the 800 a "distance" event. I don't.)

[Bailey91]

Why are you against the 400 hurdles in h.s.?

The 400IH is probably one of the more demanding events (if not most demanding sprint event)

I see it as an event that physically speaking most h.s. hurdles are probably not strong enough to handle, to make it a quality event...In high school, sports are altered to the physical abiility of the hs athlete...do we play 15 minute quarters in football? 12 minutes in basketball? 5 miles in XC? just because the college and pros have a certain rule doesnt mean at the high school level we should have the same...

Now, ask me again in 4 years, and maybe ill change my mind if the times prove it is a quality event, but I do think for most athletes it is a difficult task...

[Old Blue Eyes]

The 400IH is probably one of the more demanding events (if not most demanding sprint event)

I see it as an event that physically speaking most h.s. hurdles are probably not strong enough to handle, to make it a quality event...In high school, sports are altered to the physical abiility of the hs athlete...do we play 15 minute quarters in football? 12 minutes in basketball? 5 miles in XC? just because the college and pros have a certain rule doesnt mean at the high school level we should have the same...

Now, ask me again in 4 years, and maybe ill change my mind if the times prove it is a quality event, but I do think for most athletes it is a difficult task...

I remember the same opinion objecting to the high school relay going to 4x400 from 4x200, which it had always been. It was thought h.s. runners were not strong enough to make it a quality event. As was said in The Godfather, "times change".

[Warrior]

The 400IH is probably one of the more demanding events (if not most demanding sprint event)

I see it as an event that physically speaking most h.s. hurdles are probably not strong enough to handle, to make it a quality event...In high school, sports are altered to the physical abiility of the hs athlete...do we play 15 minute quarters in football? 12 minutes in basketball? 5 miles in XC? just because the college and pros have a certain rule doesnt mean at the high school level we should have the same...

Now, ask me again in 4 years, and maybe ill change my mind if the times prove it is a quality event, but I do think for most athletes it is a difficult task...

I think this is a valid point and why the event was at 300 for so long in high school. However, I do think that training and runners will adapt to it over time and uit will not prove to be too much for high schoolers to handle.

[bcal92]

I would just look at how tight the spreads are in the 300IH. It seemed to me looking at performance results, that a one-second difference in the 300IH could take you from 1st to 9th (last spring's Div. 1 race). That shows me that the folks are maxing out, and that the additional 100m will not result in much of a deterioration in performance.

[Bailey91]

I would just look at how tight the spreads are in the 300IH. It seemed to me looking at performance results, that a one-second difference in the 300IH could take you from 1st to 9th (last spring's Div. 1 race). That shows me that the folks are maxing out, and that the additional 100m will not result in much of a deterioration in performance.

That's just D1...D2 and D4 have a 3 second spread from 1st to 9th, boys and girls

[Warren Harding]

Not that I have much experience with hurdles, but I think the athletes will adjust fine. It might be a little rocky at first, and some kid's times might be considerably slower in comparison to their 300h times early on, but generally that is what happens when a change like this is made, and I think the athletes will be fine by the late season IMO.

Plus, what's another hundred meters? :p

[Mercury08]

Ian Sandler FTW woohooo

[Bailey91]

Not that I have much experience with hurdles, but I think the athletes will adjust fine. It might be a little rocky at first, and some kid's times might be considerably slower in comparison to their 300h times early on, but generally that is what happens when a change like this is made, and I think the athletes will be fine by the late season IMO.

Plus, what's another hundred meters? :p

Aahhhhh...too be talking in the BSC "distance" forum...to any sprinter, another 100m is a bit of a "culture shock"

[MultiFan]

The 400IH is probably one of the more demanding events (if not most demanding sprint event)

I see it as an event that physically speaking most h.s. hurdles are probably not strong enough to handle, to make it a quality event...In high school, sports are altered to the physical abiility of the hs athlete...do we play 15 minute quarters in football? 12 minutes in basketball? 5 miles in XC? just because the college and pros have a certain rule doesnt mean at the high school level we should have the same...

Now, ask me again in 4 years, and maybe ill change my mind if the times prove it is a quality event, but I do think for most athletes it is a difficult task...

I think it will also have an effect on relay teams.
Your top hurdlers may also have a spot on a relay.
If you have a hot day like last year's state's, it is a really tough double.

I understand the change, but it appears to be another rule that helps the powerhouse teams with lots of depth,
like the 1-1-1 rule for duals.

If you had 1-1-1 in the spring, I'll bet there would be athletes, especially
on the girl's side, that would only be running their hurdles in states and
invitationals. (Coach's decision)

[OldMiler]

I think it will also have an effect on relay teams.
Your top hurdlers may also have a spot on a relay.
If you have a hot day like last year's state's, it is a really tough double.

I understand the change, but it appears to be another rule that helps the powerhouse teams with lots of depth,
like the 1-1-1 rule for duals.

If you had 1-1-1 in the spring, I'll bet there would be athletes, especially
on the girl's side, that would only be running their hurdles in states and
invitationals. (Coach's decision)

I disagree. The 300H now 400H is very early, giving them hours to recover.
Anyone racing that at States is probably pretty studly and valuable in a later relay. Where I think it might hurt would be doubling back in a jumping event

[Warrior]

I think it will also have an effect on relay teams.
Your top hurdlers may also have a spot on a relay.
If you have a hot day like last year's state's, it is a really tough double.

I understand the change, but it appears to be another rule that helps the powerhouse teams with lots of depth,
like the 1-1-1 rule for duals.

If you had 1-1-1 in the spring, I'll bet there would be athletes, especially
on the girl's side, that would only be running their hurdles in states and
invitationals. (Coach's decision)

There is a 1-1-1 rule at states. If your athlete is good enough to qualify for states but not strong enough to double back for a relay, I suggest you look at their training.

[mcrun33]

I disagree. The 300H now 400H is very early, giving them hours to recover.
Anyone racing that at States is probably pretty studly and valuable in a later relay. Where I think it might hurt would be doubling back in a jumping event

I tend to agree with your point. I have found that a 300H/TJ/4x400 combination is a tough one, so I'd imagine the 400H/TJ/4x400 will also be slightly tougher. But, that's the way it goes.

And, as you eluded, we all make decisions based on what will give our kids the best chance to be successful. I can do the 2 mile/ 4x800 double with a kid at states indoors, but I might choose not to given their proximity. The 400H is just another event that will allow us to make decisions that are best for the individual. I'm looking forward to it. I think it's going to give some kids a chance to shine in a new event. If your focus is on it throughout the indoor and outdoor seasons, the kids will be ready.

[MultiFan]

There is a 1-1-1 rule at states. If your athlete is good enough to qualify for states but not strong enough to double back for a relay, I suggest you look at their training.

Good point. I was not saying they could not do it, but it does have an effect. Oracle made a similar point about the Weymouth relay running fresh last year, vs. this year probably having run in a final.

[mcrun33]

Good point. I was not saying they could not do it, but it does have an effect. Oracle made a similar point about the Weymouth relay running fresh last year, vs. this year probably having run in a final.

Right- but there are few kids who double back (mile/ 4x800, etc) AS strong as they would have run if they were fresh. So, it just becomes a coaching decision. Last year, we could have run the 4x800 just fine with 3 legs coming off their races, but not as fast as the 9:23 they ended up running. The hope is that we can be as strong as we were last year (when we were fresh) this year (if we're not fresh).

[Warrior]

Right- but there are few kids who double back (mile/ 4x800, etc) AS strong as they would have run if they were fresh. So, it just becomes a coaching decision. Last year, we could have run the 4x800 just fine with 3 legs coming off their races, but not as fast as the 9:23 they ended up running. The hope is that we can be as strong as we were last year (when we were fresh) this year (if we're not fresh).

Doubling back depends alot on the athlete. There are a few who even come back stronger having gotten the adrenaline going in the first effort as long is there is adequate recovery time. I would point people to Webb's triple in HS at his league meet outdoors of his senior year ( a triple? 400, 880, mile - it's so wonder he didn't collapse and die on the spot if you were to believe some BSC coaches ) and that kid form CA last year - Fernandez or something that won the mile and 2 mile. Of course neither of these could have happened in the BSC. :rolleyes:

[Old Blue Eyes]

Doubling back depends alot on the athlete. There are a few who even come back stronger having gotten the adrenaline going in the first effort as long is there is adequate recovery time. I would point people to Webb's triple in HS at his league meet outdoors of his senior year ( a triple? 400, 880, mile - it's so wonder he didn't collapse and die on the spot if you were to believe some BSC coaches ) and that kid form CA last year - Fernandez or something that won the mile and 2 mile. Of course neither of these could have happened in the BSC. :rolleyes:

Well stated Warrior.

[mcrun33]

Doubling back depends alot on the athlete. There are a few who even come back stronger having gotten the adrenaline going in the first effort as long is there is adequate recovery time. I would point people to Webb's triple in HS at his league meet outdoors of his senior year ( a triple? 400, 880, mile - it's so wonder he didn't collapse and die on the spot if you were to believe some BSC coaches ) and that kid form CA last year - Fernandez or something that won the mile and 2 mile. Of course neither of these could have happened in the BSC. :rolleyes:

Are we really back to this point again?

I don't think it's going to change, since the vast majority of coaches continue to vote it down. Could we talk about something else now?

[Warrior]

Are we really back to this point again?

I don't think it's going to change, since the vast majority of coaches continue to vote it down. Could we talk about something else now?

NO.

"You just need to be a flea against injustice. Enough committed fleas biting strategically can make even the biggest dog uncomfortable and transform even the biggest nation."

[Warrior]

Well stated Warrior.

Thanks OBE but from MCRUN's post it apparently looks like a lost cause. We'll have to find more allies.

[Old Blue Eyes]

Thanks OBE but from MCRUN's post it apparently looks like a lost cause. We'll have to find more allies.

You are right Warrior. It probably won't change in my time, but it will in your's.

[Glue548]

In case anyone cares,

Needham mercilessly slaughtered Wellesley in today's PowerderPuff game: 21 to 8.

More impressive is that a girl on Needham made three PATs.

[BananaFerret]

Hahaha it was expected. You guys had one girl who was blazing fast, she was awesome haha

[Raiderade 09]

In case anyone cares,

Needham mercilessly slaughtered Wellesley in today's PowerderPuff game: 21 to 8.

More impressive is that a girl on Needham made three PATs.

yea, that was embarrassing... you know it's gonna be ugly when the fastest player on the team (runs a 13.1 100m btw) breaks their nose in a FLAG football game

that was pretty impressive about the 3 PAT's... was she one of the girls soccer captains or something?

[Warrior]

First day of practice. Everybody excited.

[mcrun33]

First day of practice. Everybody excited.

Yes... is this the year B-Line ends NN's streak?

[Warrior]

Yes... is this the year B-Line ends NN's streak?

Don't think that will be the most pressing issue for awhile. Ways to go before that dual meet.

[Old Blue Eyes]

Yes... is this the year B-Line ends NN's streak?

On paper it sure looks that way. Then again, it looked that way last year. Who knew Putzeys could beat Gibson and more surprisingly Kostadinov could beat Bennett. Thanks to the coaches we won't have to worry about Wilson scoring 10.

[Smitty]

This could be the first time in 8 or 9 years Mike Bower does not coach a 50 foot shot putter.

[Warrior]

On paper it sure looks that way. Then again, it looked that way last year. Who knew Putzeys could beat Gibson and more surprisingly Kostadinov could beat Bennett. Thanks to the coaches we won't have to worry about Wilson scoring 10.

Not sure which paper you're looking at - probably the same one that favored the Brookline football team on Thanksgiving.

Reality is we will not have everyone return from last year that should have been expected. Like everyone else I'm sure - we are figuring out what we have.

My hope is we'll be competitive on 12/11 against Framingham.

[Old Blue Eyes]

This could be the first time in 8 or 9 years Mike Bower does not coach a 50 foot shot putter.

Only in the interest of accuracy, the 50 footers go back 16 years. In 92-93 we had Jason Montrose, and then Dion DiPieza, both before Mike. They were followed by Jason Williams, David Bell, Matt Frankel, Kevin Chan, and ,of course, the great one, David Smith. This year we hope we have some 40 footers.

[Old Blue Eyes]

Only in the interest of accuracy, the 50 footers go back 16 years. In 92-93 we had Jason Montrose, and then Dion DiPieza, both before Mike. They were followed by Jason Williams, David Bell, Matt Frankel, Kevin Chan, and ,of course, the great one, David Smith. This year we hope we have some 40 footers.

How could I forget Steve Long last year.

[Warrior]

How could I forget Steve Long last year.

Isn't forgetting things in the more recent past an indication of something?

[Old Blue Eyes]

Isn't forgetting things in the more recent past an indication of something?

I know. The other day I couldn't think of Gene Autry"s horse's name. Had to look it up.....Champion.

[Warrior]

I know. The other day I couldn't think of Gene Autry"s horse's name. Had to look it up.....Champion.

Being one yourself it's hard to believe you'd forget that bit of trivia.

[mcrun33]

Anyone have any surprises show up to the first 2 days of practice? Go figure- Weymouth only has 3 kids on the entire football team running track this winter. That has to be a BSC low, right?

[Warrior]

Anyone have any surprises show up to the first 2 days of practice? Go figure- Weymouth only has 3 kids on the entire football team running track this winter. That has to be a BSC low, right?

Nope, I have 2.

[mcrun33]

Nope, I have 2.

Bennett and Scott?

[Bailey91]

Anyone have any surprises show up to the first 2 days of practice? Go figure- Weymouth only has 3 kids on the entire football team running track this winter. That has to be a BSC low, right?

We've had a similar problem in Norwood the past 3-4 years in Indoor...asme this year, though we have a couple

[mcrun33]

You'd think football players would be encouraged to run track... speed, explosiveness, power.

I know at Weymouth alot of them wrestle, which has it's advantages in the trenches. Several others play hockey or basketball. I don't think too many just sit around and do nothing. But, still, only 3? 2 in Brookline? That seems extremely low.

[Bailey91]

You'd think football players would be encouraged to run track... speed, explosiveness, power.

I know at Weymouth alot of them wrestle, which has it's advantages in the trenches. Several others play hockey or basketball. I don't think too many just sit around and do nothing. But, still, only 3? 2 in Brookline? That seems extremely low.

It depends on how active the head coach is in pushing football players toward other sports...Tom Lamb was great at Norwood and still appears to continue that at Natick...some head coaches would rather players only lift..I fought that (lifting only here) here, even after I stopped coaching football here...a couple of the football assistants push kids to other sports, but it really has to come from the head coach for it to be effective

[Old Blue Eyes]

Anyone have any surprises show up to the first 2 days of practice? Go figure- Weymouth only has 3 kids on the entire football team running track this winter. That has to be a BSC low, right?

The trick is to hire as your assistant the most popular football coach, assuming he knows something about track and cares. It gets us 30+ guys a season. None as good as Parent or Scott, but without them we'd be in trouble.

[Old Blue Eyes]

Being one yourself it's hard to believe you'd forget that bit of trivia.

Thanks Warrior.

[Bailey91]

That worked for us from 1998 to 2005, heck, football used our guys (Brian Wilson, 193 jav comes to mind) but since then the fb team presence has been "lacking", ... the last popular coach went to sharon last year for football,and...our current guy is popular as well, but the fb players are staying away, and we are all banging our heads against the wall...You ultimately need a head fb coach who will back the assistant crossing over

..

[Raiderade 09]

You'd think football players would be encouraged to run track... speed, explosiveness, power.

I know at Weymouth alot of them wrestle, which has it's advantages in the trenches. Several others play hockey or basketball. I don't think too many just sit around and do nothing. But, still, only 3? 2 in Brookline? That seems extremely low.

last year we had an excessive amount "on the team" (most of them just came out cause the throwing coach, who was also a football coach, made them, hence they showed up when they wanted to, didn't come to meets, etc.) this year, that same coach is now the wrestling coach, so guess where they all went.

but we still got sam stone though, so not too worried about not scoring points in shot...

[Glue548]

Zero.

Needham has zero football players.
We also lost Newfield to wrestling. Don't ask.

[Warren Harding]

Zero.

Needham has zero football players.
We also lost Newfield to wrestling. Don't ask.

Im afraid I have to. what happened?

[Warrior]

Bennett and Scott?

No and No. Stonehill and studying respectively.

Miller and Parent.

[Warrior]

Zero.

Needham has zero football players.
We also lost Newfield to wrestling. Don't ask.

That's a shame. Coach Duffy is a friend and will hear about this. It is absolutely ridiculous.

Wrestling? :confused:

[Raiderade 09]

Zero.

Needham has zero football players.
We also lost Newfield to wrestling. Don't ask.

wait wait wait... what?!

[BananaFerret]

Is this newfield business a joke?!

And what about that jean baptiste from football?! he was epic!

[Glue548]

Is this newfield business a joke?!

And what about that jean baptiste from football?! he was epic!

I wish I were joking. He is "tired of racing" and "wants to try something new". I'm disappointed that he won't be on our squad, and it certainly will be weird without him.

(Baptiste plays basketball by the way, if only we could slap him in the 55).

[Warrior]

I wish I were joking. He is "tired of racing" and "wants to try something new". I'm disappointed that he won't be on our squad, and it certainly will be weird without him.

(Baptiste plays basketball by the way, if only we could slap him in the 55).

Senior year after becoming a League All Star is a good time to "try something Newfield". Perhaps it's the Shayne Collins effect or maybe even McChesney effect. It certainly won't help for a competitive outdoor season.

[mcrun33]

I've had some pretty good athletes over the years pull this stuff during their senior years. I don't know, I come from a time when quitting on your team during your senior year is considered a no-no. Where has that gone? Hey at least he's wrestling.... and not doing nothing!

Or how about kids quitting by email? Or just not showing up anymore and hoping you'll figure it out? I think high schools should be teaching a class on how to be a solid, respectful human being, sinc4e these skills seem to be lacking in many HS kids (not that this has anything to do with Newfield, it's just an unrelated rant)

[Bailey91]

I've had some pretty good athletes over the years pull this stuff during their senior years. I don't know, I come from a time when quitting on your team during your senior year is considered a no-no. Where has that gone?

Or how about kids quitting by email? Or just not showing up anymore and hoping you'll figure it out? I think high schools should be teaching a class on how to be a solid, respectful human being, sinc4e these skills seem to be lacking in many HS kids (not that this has anything to do with Newfield, it's just an unrelated rant)

"Taking season off" or "Work" are the new "excuses" to do nothing...I think back to 3 years ago indoors, I had a core of 8 freshmen (on the girls side) who I felt would make us competitive in the very least from the 1000 down...how many are running as seniors? 2...

[Old Blue Eyes]

last year we had an excessive amount "on the team" (most of them just came out cause the throwing coach, who was also a football coach, made them, hence they showed up when they wanted to, didn't come to meets, etc.) this year, that same coach is now the wrestling coach, so guess where they all went.

but we still got sam stone though, so not too worried about not scoring points in shot...

Had same situation several years ago(at a different school) when I hired the superbowl winning , head football coach as an assistant and it didn't work. Great football coach but didn't care about track. A little different from John Hannah(New England Patriots) who was extreme on the other end when as football coach at Somerville H.S. he yelled out at the state meet to his shot putter, "that's not good enough" after the thrower was jumping for joy over his first 50' throw.

[mcrun33]

Had same situation several years ago(at a different school) when I hired the superbowl winning , head football coach as an assistant and it didn't work. Great football coach but didn't care about track. A little different from John Hannah(New England Patriots) who was extreme on the other end when as football coach at Somerville H.S. he yelled out at the state meet to his shot putter, "that's not good enough" after the thrower was jumping for joy over his first 50' throw.

Hog Hannah was a throws coach???

Never knew that!

[Old Blue Eyes]

Hog Hannah was a throws coach???

Never knew that!

No. He was the football coach and Somerville Athletic Director or some other title. He was promoting athletics for the city, a position that did not last. The thrower, Cherlius(spelling ?) is now an NFL lineman. Hannah's roar could be heard throughout R.L..

[Warrior]

I've had some pretty good athletes over the years pull this stuff during their senior years. I don't know, I come from a time when quitting on your team during your senior year is considered a no-no. Where has that gone? Hey at least he's wrestling.... and not doing nothing!

Or how about kids quitting by email? Or just not showing up anymore and hoping you'll figure it out? I think high schools should be teaching a class on how to be a solid, respectful human being, sinc4e these skills seem to be lacking in many HS kids (not that this has anything to do with Newfield, it's just an unrelated rant)

Hopefully these are some of the things we are teaching through sports. Unfortunately it's not for everyone nor does everyone "get it".

Hey anyone know when my rep took a beating or why? Just realized I was way red.:(

[bcal92]

You know, it is really tough to coach high school sports. We have to compete with a lot of different pressures because we deal with adolescents. They are not little adults - they are magnificent creatures who will laugh, cry, sacrifice beyond measure, and act completely thoughtlessly - often in the same day.

And for every kid with incredible talent who chooses to play guitar, work, or run a sports betting business (true story from my days at Malden Catholic) - you are going to get some completely out of shape, underconfident, awkward dweeb who blossoms into a sub-five minute miler with grace and leadership skills.

All we can do is bring our A game to practice everyday. And make stupid jokes every day some kid asks "are we running today, coach?"

[Smitty]

Hey anyone know when my rep took a beating or why? Just realized I was way red.:(

http://www.talk.dyestat.com/showthread.php?t=95256

[Warrior]

http://www.talk.dyestat.com/showthread.php?t=95256

Thanks for checking Smitty. I can't believe I got hammered for one of the oldest jokes there is. My guess is there is something else behind it.

[j.j.putz]

I consider it a badge of honor. :)

[Warrior]

I consider it a badge of honor. :)

Got a tip on how to check rep points. Seems like there were alot more green than red posts. Thanks to all those that seemed to rally for me by giving me postive rep points.

Given who seemed to neg rep me I will take it as a badge of honor.
Thanks JJ.

[Glue548]

Neg rep is the sincerest form of flattery.

And it is official, after a full week of attending wrestling practice instead of track practice, Newfield will not be on the team this winter track season.

[Old Blue Eyes]

Discussion of the coaches vote for 1-1-1 participation rule at the ad's meeting resulted in no conclusion, but an interesting suggestion was made: have no limitation on event participation. Why prohibit an athlete from showing his talent to the fullest extent? So what if he or she can win multiple events. Other states have no such suppresion of talent, nor do all colleges. Seems like a case of individual liberty vs. group rights. Maybe the ad's can lead the way.

[mcrun33]

Discussion of the coaches vote for 1-1-1 participation rule at the ad's meeting resulted in no conclusion, but an interesting suggestion was made: have no limitation on event participation. Why prohibit an athlete from showing his talent to the fullest extent? So what if he or she can win multiple events. Other states have no such suppresion of talent, nor do all colleges. Seems like a case of individual liberty vs. group rights. Maybe the ad's can lead the way.

Track is supposed to be at least to some extent a team sport... why should Sam Arsenault or some other complete stud be able to score unlimited points. Imagine an outdoor meet with Sam winning HJ, LJ, TJ, 400H, 100H, 100, 200? There will always be those kinds of athletes. W/o even considering what it would do to the athlete, it would just ruin the team aspect of the sport.

[Warrior]

Track is supposed to be at least to some extent a team sport... why should Sam Arsenault or some other complete stud be able to score unlimited points. Imagine an outdoor meet with Sam winning HJ, LJ, TJ, 400H, 100H, 100, 200? There will always be those kinds of athletes. W/o even considering what it would do to the athlete, it would just ruin the team aspect of the sport.

And around and around we go.

You mean a team sport for sprinters. Those who in outdoor track can score 20 points to a distance runners 5 or 6 1/4. Interesting the NFHS rule book we are suppose to follow suggests 2+2 for dual meets with NO distance limitations.

For those concerned please ask your the AD how Pete framed the 1-1-1 vote from our meeting and presented the proposal. I know how it was repeated back to me after the ADs meeting. I'd be interested in other people's take.

[Bailey91]

[QUOTE=Warrior;2811297]And around and around we go.

You mean a team sport for sprinters. Those who in outdoor track can score 20 points to a distance runners 5 or 6 1/4. Interesting the NFHS rule book we are suppose to follow suggests 2+2 for dual meets with NO distance limitations.

QUOTE]

There is nothing in the rule book that says distance runners cant do field events...I just picked up a sophomore (girl) who just may score points in the 600/hj/sp/4x4...she projects long term in the 1000 as a runner...but then again, we small schools need to explore all options and dont have the "luxury" of huge 80 man rosters like the 1800+ schools:rolleyes:

[Old Blue Eyes]

Track is supposed to be at least to some extent a team sport... why should Sam Arsenault or some other complete stud be able to score unlimited points. Imagine an outdoor meet with Sam winning HJ, LJ, TJ, 400H, 100H, 100, 200? There will always be those kinds of athletes. W/o even considering what it would do to the athlete, it would just ruin the team aspect of the sport.

Was the the team aspect of thr sport ruined when Bobby Joe Young won the 100,200, and 400 at the New ENglands 5 years ago? Was the team aspect of the sport ruined when John thomas won 9 events in a quad meet for B.U. many years ago? Team sports survived. Once in a lifetime someone comes along who has that talent and you want to deny him or her the opportunity to express it. I understand your reasoning. And Sam could not win all those events; he'd probably could win 4, same as now. Outdoors everyone participates anyway--noone is denied(jv races). We should guarantee opportunity not results. Reminds me of the NN principal several years ago who wanted to limit varsity teams to juniors and seniors. Didn't matter that a freshman or soph. could be a state champion. What mattered was making sure more participated. Coaches roundly rejected the proposal.

[mcrun33]

Was the the team aspect of thr sport ruined when Bobby Joe Young won the 100,200, and 400 at the New ENglands 5 years ago? Was the team aspect of the sport ruined when John thomas won 9 events in a quad meet for B.U. many years ago? Team sports survived. Once in a lifetime someone comes along who has that talent and you want to deny him or her the opportunity to express it. I understand your reasoning. And Sam could not win all those events; he'd probably could win 4, same as now. Outdoors everyone participates anyway--noone is denied(jv races). We should guarantee opportunity not results. Reminds me of the NN principal several years ago who wanted to limit varsity teams to juniors and seniors. Didn't matter that a freshman or soph. could be a state champion. What mattered was making sure more participated. Coaches roundly rejected the proposal.

All I'm saying is that when you team score an event (in a sport with no defense) placing no limits on how much a kid could do could literally create a one-man team. Yes, if John Thomas won 9 events in a quad meet for BU, that destroys the team aspect. If Arantxa King's Medford teams came into a meet and she won 8 events (which she could have done) would the rest of the kids even celebrate the "team" victory? Your junior/ senior point doesn't even apply.... everybody would agree that it's a bogus suggestion from a principal. Apples and oranges... actually, apples and airplanes.

[Old Blue Eyes]

All I'm saying is that when you team score an event (in a sport with no defense) placing no limits on how much a kid could do could literally create a one-man team. Yes, if John Thomas won 9 events in a quad meet for BU, that destroys the team aspect. If Arantxa King's Medford teams came into a meet and she won 8 events (which she could have done) would the rest of the kids even celebrate the "team" victory? Your junior/ senior point doesn't even apply.... everybody would agree that it's a bogus suggestion from a principal. Apples and oranges... actually, apples and airplanes.

In college there are no limits on participation. Are you saying that college track has no team aspect? Nobody since John Thomas has won 9 events I bet. Team participation still exists. Very infrequently will somene like Thomas or King come along. When they do we shouldn't deny them so others who may not have worked as hard, or cared as much can score. Everyone can participation; we are talking about scoring. ....You missed the jr./sr. point which was that it also was an attempt to deny excellence for the sake of less skilled others. Obviously, we agree it was a bad idea. My hope was that you'd see the same principle applies here. If your rule was translated to other sports we'd limit the carries a running back gets or the shots a b. player takes. Anthony Gurley took too many shots for NN 2 yrs. ago. He and Lowe were the whole team. The others didn't seem to mind it. It could have been spread out.

[JNewfXC]

I'm not sure why so many people seem to think that by not racing for one season (after 10 seasons of varsity cross country and track) that I'm committing a crime, but it's really not that awful. I need a break from racing because I'm burnt out, and for the first time in years I'm letting myself try a sport besides running. Not to mention, my times have never ACTUALLY dropped during indoor track.
Doing wrestling isn't quitting, it's having an open mind and allowing myself to explore another sport, cause this is the last chance I'll ever get. You can't try a new sport in college.
Needham High gets out at 2:35 everyday. Wrestling practice starts at 4:00. I'll run as many miles as I want, every day, before wrestling. I want to run, I just don't want to race. I can't get myself pumped for 12 races a season, and i was mentally burnt out after the xc season.
and I'm coming back in spring strong, and, for the first time in 6 years - fresh.

[Smitty]

Needham High gets out at 2:35 everyday. Wrestling practice starts at 4:00. I'll run as many miles as I want, every day, before wrestling. I want to run, I just don't want to race.

That is dumb. If you want to wrestle, give it your all. Don't show up at practice tired. If you want to run, do it afterwards.

If you're not running long enough/hard enough to get tired, what's the point? If you are, you're insulting your new coach and teammates.

[Warrior]

I'm not sure why so many people seem to think that by not racing for one season (after 10 seasons of varsity cross country and track) that I'm committing a crime, but it's really not that awful. I need a break from racing because I'm burnt out, and for the first time in years I'm letting myself try a sport besides running. Not to mention, my times have never ACTUALLY dropped during indoor track.
Doing wrestling isn't quitting, it's having an open mind and allowing myself to explore another sport, cause this is the last chance I'll ever get. You can't try a new sport in college.
Needham High gets out at 2:35 everyday. Wrestling practice starts at 4:00. I'll run as many miles as I want, every day, before wrestling. I want to run, I just don't want to race. I can't get myself pumped for 12 races a season, and i was mentally burnt out after the xc season.
and I'm coming back in spring strong, and, for the first time in 6 years - fresh.

GOOD LUCK.

[BananaFerret]

GOOD LUCK.

^^^^

[Warren Harding]

Today I walked into Reggie and my throat was immediately as dry as the desert. Boy, am I excited to race there :D :D :D

Strangely enough though, I did not see Curtis once, despite the fact that I was walking all around the building with a slice of pizza.

[clifbar]

Today I walked into Reggie and my throat was immediately as dry as the desert. Boy, am I excited to race there :D :D :D

Strangely enough though, I did not see Curtis once, despite the fact that I was walking all around the building with a slice of pizza.
I was happy to see him multiple times yesterday, and actually saw him eating a Snickers while sitting on the bleachers:eek:

[Glue548]

saw him eating a Snickers while sitting on the bleachers:eek:

heresy.

[Warren Harding]

I was happy to see him multiple times yesterday, and actually saw him eating a Snickers while sitting on the bleachers:eek:

You sir, are jesting.

[Raiderade 09]

I was happy to see him multiple times yesterday, and actually saw him eating a Snickers while sitting on the bleachers:eek:

the same curtis who once forced tommy mayell to eat an entire powerbar in one bite with no water?

surely you can't be serious

[clifbar]

I think food was surprisingly allowed in the field house during the meet Saturday as he was not stopping anyone from eating. I didn't expect to see him doing it, though.

[Warrior]

I think food was surprisingly allowed in the field house during the meet Saturday as he was not stopping anyone from eating. I didn't expect to see him doing it, though.

You're in the big time now boys - college. Different rules apply. They actually expect you to be more responsible and pick up after yourself.

[LIONheart]

I think food was surprisingly allowed in the field house during the meet Saturday as he was not stopping anyone from eating. I didn't expect to see him doing it, though.

haha i wish they allowed food at all meets

[Price253]

the same curtis who once forced tommy mayell to eat an entire powerbar in one bite with no water?

surely you can't be serious

don't call him shirley ;)

[Glue548]

don't call him shirley ;)

I see what you did there.

Any interesting matchups this Thursday?

[Raiderade 09]

don't call him shirley ;)

glad someone picked up on that

[Warrior]

I see what you did there.

Any interesting matchups this Thursday?

Dedham-Norwood
Milton-Natick
Walpole-Wellesley
Braintree-Weymouth
Brookline-Framingham
Needham-Newton North

This is the order of heats / flights for Thursday for those interested. Girls throw first. HJ is in even inches starting at 4'2" and 5"2".

[Bailey91]

Dedham-Norwood
Milton-Natick
Walpole-Wellesley
Braintree-Weymouth
Brookline-Framingham
Needham-Newton North

All the Herget matchups look interesting on the boys side. Last outdoors all those teams battled it out. They definitely bring excitemnet to the track and field.


Good luck to everyone.

Herget girls matchups are all competitive as well...

[mcrun33]

Herget girls matchups are all competitive as well...

As should be Brookline-Framingham on the girls side.

[BabyFace]

Newton North Boys look to be a strong contender in the 55 Shuttle Hurdle this year with:

Tony Chen
Ethan Goldman
Fasial M.
Sam Arsenault

Watch out for us at NIN..

[Warren Harding]

Already talking about NIN? We havent even had a dual yet..

Even so, sounds solid.

[clifbar]

Newton North Boys look to be a strong contender in the 55 Shuttle Hurdle this year with:

Tony Chen
Ethan Goldman
Fasial M.
Sam Arsenault

Watch out for us at NIN..somebody's off to a great start on dyestat

[Warrior]

Dedham-Norwood
Milton-Natick
Walpole-Wellesley
Braintree-Weymouth
Brookline-Framingham
Needham-Newton North

This is the order of heats / flights for Thursday for those interested. Girls throw first. HJ is in even inches starting at 4'2" and 5"2".

1 day to go

Good luck everybody

[Smitty]

Already talking about NIN? We havent even had a dual yet.

I wasn't aware that the shuttle hurdle was an event in dual meets this year.

[BananaFerret]

http://www.coolrunning.com/results/08/ma/Dec11_BaySta_set1.shtml

[Warren Harding]

Sollowin's got wheels.

[BananaFerret]

dont worry wellesely will get it handed to them come indoor. ;)
;)

[Raiderade 09]

Sollowin's got wheels.

more like rockets

[Warrior]

Look very solid. In addition to the aforementioned wheels / rockets of Sollowin who had the top time in the 1000, Dooley had the top time in the 600, Bean the 2nd best time in the 300 and was solid in the dash, Gurney was good in the hurdles and Galligan and Keegan ran well in the mile.

[mcrun33]

Look very solid. In addition to the aforementioned wheels / rockets of Sollowin who had the top time in the 1000, Dooley had the top time in the 600, Bean the 2nd best time in the 300 and was solid in the dash, Gurney was good in the hurdles and Galligan and Keegan ran well in the mile.

That must be one tough distance coach over there.... :rolleyes:

[Old Blue Eyes]

Look very solid. In addition to the aforementioned wheels / rockets of Sollowin who had the top time in the 1000, Dooley had the top time in the 600, Bean the 2nd best time in the 300 and was solid in the dash, Gurney was good in the hurdles and Galligan and Keegan ran well in the mile.

Weymouth looks tough, but Wellesley looks tougher for whoever wins Carey(Brook., NN, or Wey.).

[mcrun33]

Well, it's early (too early), so I was expecting to see teams shaking off some rust at this meet, and probably even the next. On the girls side, there weren't tons of fast times, but Ranti's 3:05 is quick this early, as is White and Gillis going 11:27 and 11:35, Kaufman going 9.01, NN's high jumpers going 4'10, and Murphy from Framingham going 5:31.

Weymouth will not have an easy time repeating as Carey champs. North has reloaded and filled alot of gaps. If they can fill the 55, 300, and shot in, they are a real force. I think the Herget should be a 3-way tie between Wellesley, Natick, and Milton. It's only fair when there are three such solid teams.

As for the boys, on the Herget side, Wellesley looks the best, but Walpole gave them a real push. Natick will be in the mix if they can improve in some of the distance events. Newton North looks like the Carey favorite, especially looking at the grades of those shot putters (freshmen and sophomores tend to have quite a bit of upside from early seaosn results), but Weymouth and Brookline will be right there in the mix again.

Should be a fun year, all 4 titles will come down to the wire!

[Warrior]

Weymouth looks tough, but Wellesley looks tougher for whoever wins Carey(Brook., NN, or Wey.).

Wellesley does look very tough.
I'm figuring on at least one snow out so the interdivision doesn't happen. :rolleyes:

[Smitty]

1 Kiy, Phillip SR Norwood 49-08.75 15.15m


Is he new? Don't see him in any results last year.

[Bailey91]

1 Kiy, Phillip SR Norwood 49-08.75 15.15m


Is he new? Don't see him in any results last year.

New to indoor...he had a good end of sping '08, threw 47 by the end of the season

[Warrior]

New to indoor...he had a good end of sping '08, threw 47 by the end of the season

I suppose he's a 2 miler too since those small schools need to use their limited resources to the max. :rolleyes:

I wish my big school could find some big guys to throw the weighted ball that far.

[Bailey91]

I suppose he's a 2 miler too since those small schools need to use their limited resources to the max. :rolleyes:

I wish my big school could find some big guys to throw the weighted ball that far.

Yeah 'cuz big schools never have anyone throw the "weighted ball" that far...:eek:

On similar note,
Out of curiosity, how big are everyone's rosters? Norwood girls are at 37 (9 shot putters!)...

[Warrior]

Yeah 'cuz big schools never have anyone throw the "weighted ball" that far...:eek:

On similar note,
Out of curiosity, how big are everyone's rosters? Norwood girls are at 37 (9 shot putters!)...

Brookline girls are about the same. More distance though - trade you some shot putters for some 2 milers.

Brookline boys 60+. Again the trade is open for them as well.

[DanHamilton]

It'd be nice if I had someone to race against in the two. Warrior, plan on throwing Grove in there any time soon?

[mcrun33]

It'd be nice if I had someone to race against in the two. Warrior, plan on throwing Grove in there any time soon?

11 boys teams would like to thank you for filling in their bulletin boards just a little bit more;)

[Old Blue Eyes]

How can Steve McChesney not be picked as Boston Globe girl's coach of the year? I know he has won it before and it feels good to spread the wealth, but shouldn't we care about the truth which is that McChesney was the real coach of the year.

[Warrior]

How can Steve McChesney not be picked as Boston Globe girl's coach of the year? I know he has won it before and it feels good to spread the wealth, but shouldn't we care about the truth which is that McChesney was the real coach of the year.

Mike Maguire is a nice pick and the Haverhill girl's team would have been a state meet champion in many years BUT McChesney deserved it after leading the team to a NATIONAL 6th place ranking.

[mcrun33]

Mike Maguire is a nice pick and the Haverhill girl's team would have been a state meet champion in many years BUT McChesney deserved it after leading the team to a NATIONAL 6th place ranking.

Agreed.... McChesney deserves the nod this year, but a close second HAS to be Henry Phelan, who to my knowledge has never won the Globe Coach of the Year, being from Bromfield, which is out of the Globe's reach. Losing Jamieson, Mepham, and Binder (Kentucky, Brown, Wake Forest) and then wining a DCL regular season title over the greatest team in Mass. history is quite an accomplishment for a first year coach with his new team.

So, if not McChesney because "he's won too many" why not Phelan who's won zero? BTW, this takes nothing away from Maguire, who did an outstanding job with a top 10 team in NE.

Just one more question- why does Aden win runner of the year over his teammate Ali, who actually won th D1 race? Just curious, if anybody knows?

[clifbar]

Just one more question- why does Aden win runner of the year over his teammate Ali, who actually won th D1 race? Just curious, if anybody knows?My guess would be because Aden finished ahead of him every other race of the season (I think?) and they don't base it solely off of one race.

[Warren Harding]

Forget aden, what about galebach? he won a varsity race at Manhatten, outkicked aden at the D1 Emass, and made it to FLN. seems like a solid choice to me.

[Mercury08]

Forget aden, what about galebach? he won a varsity race at Manhatten, outkicked aden at the D1 Emass, and made it to FLN. seems like a solid choice to me.

if im not mistaken they only count in-state competition

[Warrior]

if im not mistaken they only count in-state competition

You are mistaken. Everything is considered.

All solid choices.

[Warren Harding]

Any thrillers coming up for this week's meet?

[bcal92]

Then Wilson should have been picked....

[mcrun33]

Any thrillers coming up for this week's meet?


Carey:
Weymouth-Framingham (I wont comment on my own meet)
Braintree-Newton North
Needham-Brookline
These meets all look like dogs on paper (boys and girls). After this week on the boys side, we have Weymouth-Brookline, Newton-Brookline, Weymouth-Newton (all could be tossups, though Newton looks the strongest on paper)

Herget:
Milton-Norwood
Dedham-Wellesey
Natick-Walpole

Natick-Walpole could be a good one on the boys side. None of the girls meets should be very close, with Natick and Wellesley on a collision course, unless Milton can knock Wellesley off, opening up the chance for a three-way tie.