NYC Marathon

[wineturtle]

Nice Race...tip of my hat to NYRR Club who put on a great event(and a good race inside the event).
OOpps!!
Hey it's a marathon stuff happens!

[MoMo]

Interesting comment from Lance, as per nyt/ap:

"That was, without a doubt, the hardest physical thing I've ever done," Armstrong said after the race.

Comparing his marathon experience to his cycling success Armstrong said, "even the worst days on the tour, nothing was as hard as that. Nothing left me feeling the way I do now." Armstrong said he shins started hurting around mile 12 or 13, and his legs felt heavy as he ran through Harlem. With three miles to go in the race, Armstrong said he stopped caring if he could meet his personal goal of finishing under three hours, the pain was so intense.
---

You could tell that, as he neared the finish line with the clock ticking toward 3:00, he couldn't dig any deeper than what he was doing.

[herr]

But he made it! Bet he will feel good about that tomorrow.

[patti]

Hi MoMo,

When all you can do comes down to "all I can do" Then you do "all I can do" that's a great run!

Way to Go LAnce!! He didn't look like he was a happy camper during the later stages...but I agree with herr...he's going to be smiling :D tomorrow and shout "I DID IT!" He owns it!

[Kalaby]

Armstrong is one tough s.o.b. - I'm glad he made it.

It is very telling for a guy of his athletic prowess to be reduced to the state he was in during the final stages of the race. If that doesn't tell the average person just how difficult running can be, then I suppose nothing can.

[jrun]

Interesting comment from Lance, as per nyt/ap:

"That was, without a doubt, the hardest physical thing I've ever done," Armstrong said after the race.

Comparing his marathon experience to his cycling success Armstrong said, "even the worst days on the tour, nothing was as hard as that. Nothing left me feeling the way I do now." Armstrong said he shins started hurting around mile 12 or 13, and his legs felt heavy as he ran through Harlem. With three miles to go in the race, Armstrong said he stopped caring if he could meet his personal goal of finishing under three hours, the pain was so intense.
---



While we runners would love to use the quote above as evidence to the general public that, "See, we runners are tougher than you give us credit for!" remember that though Lance is/was an endurance freak, he never trained for a running event, let alone a marathon. Heck, his longest run was only 16 miles. Huge point. The guy can have the best VO2Max ever recorded...still doesn't translate riding a bike to running. Different body parts involved.

Just saying, so runners don't get too carried away with the Armstrong quote...

[Sebrle]

I wonder how many people:

Broke 3 hours for the first time;

and

Beat Lance Armstrong;

That'd be a nice picture to hang on your wall (especially if you're a girl!)

[Wayne B]

Question for anyone who watched the coverage. In Queens, the seemed to be a woman named Talpos who was leading by perhaps 15 seconds just prior to crossing the Queensboro (59th St) Bridge. Was there any kind of a story/explanation offered by the commentators about her? She was wearing an ivory/cream colored outfit.

[wineturtle]

Was she the pacer that got away from the pack?
Where were you stationed?

[Wayne B]

They shot us out to the approach to the bridge - I could see the back of the Silvercup sign. Crescent and 42nd Rd (I'm sure of Crescent, less sure of the cross road). I was about 3/4 of the way from the Citicorp Bldg to Queensboro Plaza. After the wheelers were mostly done, I went back and was working in the park.

The photo on this article (http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=2630261)shows her - was she the pacer?

[wineturtle]

Think so.
Have it on tape will review in AM but I suspect a LLer or two watched it.

[KevinM]

I thought that if any group of people would take the Lance sideshow with a grain of salt (or even a healthy bit of disdain), it would be the accomplished runners and knowledgeable fans here.

[patti]

Lance did good for the sport. He got more coverage than the top runners, yes. The main thing is that the sport itself (marathoning) got coverage.

And I think this is where the TV coverage is going to go from now on. After all who wants to watch a skinny, talented, hard working runner...run.

Lance did us good.

[wineturtle]

Kevin I think you'll find that many here understand that we would not have races with this level of excellence at the front with out the supporting cast following and attracting the sponsor $$.Getting people out on the roads for the common good is here to stay. Embrace Lance, Julie Bowens' co-star, Kim Alexis, Stephie March's hubby, the Bannana group, tuxedo guy and the twelve Barneys that ran in purple splendor.
Patti and Dan call the Patti thread "their other long run" it's like meeting friends for a nice long run....you talk about the kids, price of shoe laces, latest ache or pain, bum boss,Aunt Lulu's kidney operation and might throw in a hey remember Diane Wafflefoot from Boston her son is running for some college that can't keep plant life from growing on the building walls.
You coach if I'm not mistaken so you are tied to the who's who of HS and early college runners while most posters here have day jobs far removed from sport. Get us to a random HS meet and we'll be hooting and cheering as loud as any one who knows the kids.......we love the sport with passion but within the framework of our real lives.
Quite frankly none of us give a hoot about the Mike Tyson H.S.'s 17:23 runner who holds the East Lyle School District Soph record. We give a hoot that they are out there running and support them.
On two other boards a group of people are talking about the history of the marathon,the distance and the why's and wheres of the distance. No-one without earhair got involved in it.
I've posted an in depth answer on a subject I knew about, only to be met by>>>Whoa I can't read all that! .....Yo. clifts note here proffesor qwn NooB 1337>>> It's hard to engage after that type of stuff happens over and over.

Point-Gomes dos Santos- Did I know he was coming off a NR spring... no... but after reading the info provided by the ING/NYRRC he wasn't "some unknown runner" I knew not only that he was a 208 guy from S.A. but thanks to the supplied bio I knew he was hungry for more and when I saw him break I knew he was legit. All the posters on the race thread were talking about some guy running and falling off the second pack-.EDIT: Hey I not only posted a link to the bios ...I posted the bios in the clear...the info was there for the taking- I'm not saying you have to know every 2:08 guy in the world but you have to learn about the proven 208 guy IN THE RACE THAT DAY.

Hit a couple of PRS and the next race you say "hey I'm on a roll...I'm going for it"....notice both winners yesterday came off PR seasons.

I remember one poster on Girl Talk that Patti invited to hang with her family , Fleming and a couple other proven major race winners after FootieNE- declined because we were going to have thin pizza and she doesn't like thin pizza.
DUH!!

[KevinM]

Lance did good for the sport. He got more coverage than the top runners, yes. The main thing is that the sport itself (marathoning) got coverage.



But Patti, I'm not so sure this is true. Yes, I understand the sponsor dynamics and appreciate that the NYCM is not, at it's heart, about the elites. And I love that about the NYCM. I love the fact that yesterday was a de facto holiday here in the city, and I love going out and cheering for my friends, neighbors, visitors, etc., no matter their level.

HOWEVER, the "sport" of marathoning didn't get additional coverage yesterday. Marathoning isn't hurting in the US -- elite marathoning is. The participatory segement of the marathon is amazingly healthy. In the past 3 weeks we've seen 80,000+ folks finish a marathon on US soil (just at Chicago and NY).

Lance is in no way, shape, or form an elite marathoner. He's a guy with otherwordly aerobic capabilities who lost a bunch of overall fitness, moved to L.A., partied with Matthew McConaughey, and did the minimal amount of training someone with his freakish abilities would have to do in order to break 3:00.

I don't begrudge the guy the opportunity to do what he did. In fact, I think it's kinda cool. I don't think for one minute, however, that forcing knowledgeable track guys like Larry Rawson and Lewis Johnson to gush on and on about how amazing it is for one of the world's best endurance specimens to place 869th is likely to give us the next Peter Gilmore or Deena Kastor.

[herr]

A.) Its pretty impressive what Armstrong did. He is 20 pounds heavier than he was when he was racing bicycles ( 160--> 180lbs--pretty heavy for a runner). And he was only able to run 45 minutes a day, with only one 16 miler prep. He was plagued by shin splints from mile 10 on--and he still breaks 3 hours. It just shows how much you can do on heart and talent alone (and also with a little pacing help!). Still, its an amazing result for him.

B.) I think its a terrific thing that Armstrong got so much attention. Anything that makes people pay attention to the marathon in a positive way is good for the sport. It makes people pay attention to the event--maybe get them to start doing it themselves. Etc. How can it be bad that there is hoopla around a major sporting event in the world's largest city? Its just plain good for the sport to have someone like Lance Armstrong run the race, with fanfare, and then humbly talk about how much it hurt and how much respect he had for the whole enterprise.

[Wayne B]

One other thing that Lance's participation did was to put a fine, recognized athlete out there, and to paraphrase Lance, have the race kick his butt. In the last several years, there's been a big movement towards "anyone can run a marathon" or perhaps I should say, "anyone can finish a marathon." Lance showed that there is a big difference between trying to legitimately run a marathon and simply getting to the finish. He made the effort to run a good one, did a fine job considering his insufficient training, and, I hope, made some people realize that the guys and gals up front, whether at age 25 or 65 are in a different league from the "I want to run a marathon" crowd.

[KevinM]

He made the effort to run a good one, did a fine job considering his insufficient training,

How do these two statements fit together? He trained insufficiently, not logging enough miles in total or in any one long run. Therefore, he didn't make the effort to run a good one.

A buddy I ran with in college who has taken the last 3 years almost entirely off from running or any other physical activity ran NYC yesterday. He trained for about 8 months, averaging maybe 40 mpw, and ran exactly one run of 20mi or longer. His goal was sub-3:00. He bonked at 22 and ran 3:05 and change. His first statement to me? "Yeah, I'm happy. I mean, what should I have expected, I didn't really train for it". And he was exactly right.

I guess my point is that what LA did was little different than what any other recreational/participatory athlete with a goal did yesterday. The only difference is the much, much higher starting point LA had versus a Mike Huckabee or Kim Alexis.

Edit: I should point out that LA readily admits that he did not train nearly enough. Simply shows how far talent, cumulative fitness, and a standard endurance athlete's pain threshold can take you.

[herr]

Edit: I should point out that LA readily admits that he did not train nearly enough. Simply shows how far talent, cumulative fitness, and a standard endurance athlete's pain threshold can take you.

That is what is impressive about it. Sort of shows how good an athlete LA actually was

[KevinM]

That is what is impressive about it. Sort of shows how good an athlete LA actually was


I still fail to see how highlighting an athlete who admittedly did not make an attempt to do his best, let alone glorifying that fact, is seen as a positive for the sport.

Was it a positive for cancer fundraising? Sure. A positive for Nike? Sure. A positive for next year's NYCM entries? Yes again. But in past year's we've had live coverage locally on WNBC and then a one-hour recap nationally later in the afternoon. The same coverage existed this year, only a greater percentage of it (just guessing here -- didn't break it down) was dedicated to the non-competitive element of the event.

I'm not one of the anti-recreational Runners World hating elitists you'll hear from on this topic. As mentioned, I LOVE the all-inclusive nature of the event, and I even enjoy seeing the reporters running with the celebs or FDNY types down First Avenue. I just hold no misconception that any of these folks receiving publicity will do a thing for elite-level American distance running (or the appreciation thereof).

[Zat0pek]

I just hold no misconception that any of these folks receiving publicity will do a thing for elite-level American distance running (or the appreciation thereof).

Gotta agree here. I was out of town with out an internet connection this weekend. Sunday midday, I surfed the web on my cell phone trying to find results or a report.

The ONLY article was on ESPN...and it was ONLY about Lance. It simply said (and I quote) that "...a man from Brazil..." won. No name, no time, no results. Just "a man from Brazil" won.

I screamed and was ready to chuck my cell phone out the window, but, hey, at least I found out how Lance did! :mad:

[Wayne B]

I still fail to see how highlighting an athlete who admittedly did not make an attempt to do his best, let alone glorifying that fact, is seen as a positive for the sport.

Kevin,
I guess there is a difference of opinion of what doing your best is. Did Lance fail to do all his homework? Yes, and he readily admits it. He can't change history. In the marathon, you must earn everything. Lance did his best yesterday. Could it have been better if he'd done all/considerably more of his homework? Yes. Could he have done more yesterday? No. In the end, you're arguing semantics.

My point wasn't that he prepared well, it's that he did a heck of a job from the starting line to the finish line.

[patti]

Lance did more for marathoning than the winners. Deena and Peter are not in People's magazine or US, well, (oops) maybe they were and I missed it. These rags are very popular here in the US..c'mon...Access Hollywood, Inside Edition..all these kinds of shows are very popular. (For better or worse, I think this is where many Americans get there news.) I think the NYCM will be covered on these shows because of Lance and what he brings...he's bigger than cycling...he's bigger than running...He's well, Lance.


Lance generated more exposure for our sport than the winner or the stars behind the winners. People are already judging whether or not somebody did well by Lance's finish. It'd be something to start marking how many people break 3 hours now, because Lance did it. He said it was the hardest thing he ever had to do...I think there will be many. We'll have a lot of 3 hour marathoners now. Lance will now probably have "Lance in training" programs for people who want to get to their goals. The t-shirts stood out, too.


I heard a guy say he couldn't wait to watch NYCM...Kim Alexis was running!

I admit, at first I was turned off by the whole Lance thing. (like give me a break) Joannie and Al, and EL G..promo...ok, I'm beyond that now. To see Lance struggle and to have him reach his goal, by pulling everything out of himself to get it...was marvelous to see. I applaud him. Standing O. And, and to see that Joannie ran not only the second 10 with him, but also the next 6...that's says alot. I love our sport and I love what it brings out of people.

Now, I am thrilled he had people around him to encourage him. What better runners to have than former world record holders. What does that say about our sport...we'll help you. I think it says volumes. Steve Cram didnt' get much coverage...Steve who? Sonia O' Sullivan? Say what?


To your comment of he didn't make the effort to run a good one. He didn't know what he was getting himself into and probably thought he was doing enough. When he found out (during the race) that he hadn't done enough well, he had the stuffin' to pull it out. And the guidance of Joannie. I love what I read what she said to him...He's telling her his calves are tight...
"Don't worry," she says, "It'll get better at 20"......LOL!!! I LLLOOOVVE THAT!!!!!!! "It'll get better at 20!!" What the!!? That's a t-shirt slogan if I ever heard one. That's gonna get Ms Joannie another house! lol!!


Well, I, too, ran only one 2 hour run before my first marathon...and I promptly took off 5 whole days because I thought I'd die...(of course, I got in my quota of 2 packs of cigarettes a day. Though I did graduate to filters by then).

My highest mileage week was one of 42 miles about 6 weeks before the actually race. Marathon day arrived...I truly believed I was going to die of a heart attack during the race. ( I didn't care if I did).

I, to this day, believed at that time, I was running alot...and I was trying my hardest. I truly believed and still do, that at that time in my life, I was in the best shape of my life (though I did believe I was going to die at the same time.)

Much to my surprised I didn't. I had a wonderful experience. NO aches, no pain...a blissful remembrance. Hence the joyful glee (relief) of not only living, but winning the darn thing with at 2:53:40. (I continued to smoke for the next 2 years before it dawn on me that it was holding me back I went down to a 2:43 before I did) LOL!!!!! But they did have filters!!! So I thought I was getting less smoke...(breath deep)

So, lets all watch Access Hollywood, Inside Edition, Extra.. (ok, yes, I sometimes watch these shows....gotta get my news) and read People Magazine (comes out tomorrow) and see what happens. What other stars ran in NYCM yeserday.

I wonder if NYC will have a celeb catergory in the future? But how do you determine who is a celeb and who is only a celeb in their own mind? Hummm.:confused:

[patti]

http://runningtimes.com/onerunner/

Read this in runningtimes..by Zika Palmer Rea. Yup! she's got married to Peter!

Joe Driscoll is a Zapster.

[wineturtle]

Year-1978 a week before the race.
Place -Lew Rudins office on penthouse floor looking down on Park Ave( Lew owned most of Park Ave at that time BTW)

Purpose- Live 15 minute remote radio promo /interview / Q&A for NYCMarathon

Players-Lew Rudin-real estate kingpin/sponsor/fan
Tom Hyland -formerslowsprinter as spokesperson for The NYMarathon.
Radio guy-I can not remember his name.

Gaff- I missstate the then current Marathon World Best holder and time- but do get Worlds Best/ Worlds Record explaination out correctly.... all else goes well.

Aftermath-I'm mortified... I get back to the NYRRC's Stately office suite;) at the West Side Y expecting to hear the sound of the shot Fred fires and hoping to die before it hits- not a peep from any one. Nothing...this goes on for a couple of days everyone is treating me normally and I'm just waiting for the blade to drop. 4 days I can't stand it. I finally muster my courage walk into Freds office and say-Fred I screwed up I'm really sorry- blah blah- he looks up>>what interview?-the one you sent me to Lews office to do,the one you said was the most important announcement about the race, the one that was going to be heard by a million people- that interview>>
oh don't worry... no one cares ....as long as you got the day right it's fine.

Not one person on the race committee even bothered to tune in.

My point- Fred is sitting in his skybox today counting coup... a smile on his face as he watches the Lance Show at HIS RACE!!
He understood even back then that it would come to this and I'm sure he is fine with it-just look at the world class talent that came this year to lead Fred's Parade.

[patti]

LOL! "As long as you got the day right it's fine"

Gotta love it.


First things first!


Yeah, Fred would've been in his Glory..huh? 37 thousand people...

[wineturtle]

Fred was so slick he could pick PT Barnums pocket and sell him back the wallet:D

[KevinM]

There's a difference between what's best for marathoning/distance running as a sport and what's best for the NYC Marathon.

While I have nothing against Mary W or the NYRR, I think Carey Pinkowski and the Hanson brothers can be credited with helping marathoning as a sport about 10,000 times more than Lance Armstrong.

[wineturtle]

Do you really think if we stayed with the Cherry Tree the sport would have been better off?

Steingrabber is plowing under the Joe Yancey Track as we type!!

[MoMo]

Well, if you provide a better, more supportive, mutually reinforcing training center for elites, as the Hansons do, you'll have faster elites.

And if you provide more motivation for the masses, as Lance's run did, you'll have more highly motivated masses. And rising from those masses, inevitably, at least a few people will eventually flirt with, or break into, the elite ranks -- much as our own Miss Patti did.

[patti]

There's a difference between what's best for marathoning/distance running as a sport and what's best for the NYC Marathon.

While I have nothing against Mary W or the NYRR, I think Carey Pinkowski and the Hanson brothers can be credited with helping marathoning as a sport about 10,000 times more than Lance Armstrong.

Yes, I agree..but the general public doesn't give a hoot about them..as a matter of fact they don't know who the Hanson Brothers are...if Lance was to stand up and say.."I think we should support American Distance running" I think people would hear it and something more will be added perhaps not only $$$ to the sport but interest.

It hard to promote unglamorous hard work.

It was the camaraderie of the local running group that snag me into racing. I found running with the help of Dr. Ken Cooper's book "Aerobics" and I was hooked after my first run...I hated the run, ah but the after effects were life transforming for me.

It's what gets spewed out in the great big PR machine...and Lance and celebs like him get noticed..now if they used their voices to promote running then perhaps we'd get further along in the sport. Out of many one can rise and then more will follow.

[herr]

Out of many one can rise and then more will follow.

This is true of many things

[wineturtle]

Out of many one can rise and then more will follow.

Attention !! Editors/SpinDoctors and Verbal Craftspeople of the LL.
\Let's craft a message around this .
Send it to Lance,Oprah, even Ed McMahon:) ..... any one people listen to

The more someone with the media's ear mentions our sport the larger the pool of possible risers.

LLer Malmo's Manifesto has some good ideas in it that would go with the head quote.
Malmo's Manifesto
I'm coaching right now, as we speak. But a lot of you don't recognize it as such because it's different than anything you've ever seen. I was lucky. In high school I had a coach that knew nothing about running, and yet he knew everything there was to know about coaching and motivation. Take a look at these modern-day, New Age coaching "geniuses" that have taken over. They've got their Level I,II, and III coaching certificates in one hand, and they can recite verse by verse from their running-geek exercise physio-nonsense running books; yet they don't know a damn thing about running or competition! Did Bill Bowerman or Jumbo Elliot ever have a silly coaching certificate? Get out!

Last time I checked, running was a sport, an athletic COMPETITION - not some sort of laboratory-rat time trial. If you'll agree with me that it's all about competition, then don't you think that most of your focus should be on preparing yourself for competition? For that you need real coaching.

Coaching is about motivating and provoking athletes into doing what they never thought they could do before. How the heck do you think those pre-pubescent little girls do amazing things in gymnastics? IT'S COACHING, DAMMIT - not some "Jim Beam's Gymnastics Formula" book!

Ever hear me tell anyone how much to run? NOPE. Ever hear me tell anyone about my 12-step contrived training schedules? NOPE. What do I tell you guys? It goes like this, baby:

Run twice a day, as many days as you can. Hopefully five, six or seven days a week.
Run more. How much? I dunno. You figure it out, but find out for yourself.
Run it faster.
Love running and LOVE racing.
Stay focused.
Set goals and don't be afraid to fail.
Listen to your body and don't be afraid to rest.
Compete WITH your comrades in sweat - never AGAINST them.
Smile a lot.
Each time you read my words you fall further and further into my trap. I've already planted the seed into your subconscious. My Master Plan is to take over, one click at a time. Soon you'll be lifting weights at my behest, only they won't be barbells, they'll be pods, and you'll be loading them onto flatbed trucks destined for the rest of the world! There you have it - Malmo's Manifesto. I told you it would be less than four pages."

- former 3000-meter steeplechase American record holder, 1:01 half-marathoner, and 2:12 marathoner George "Malmo" Malley

[Braavo Furgi]

Gotta agree here. I was out of town with out an internet connection this weekend. Sunday midday, I surfed the web on my cell phone trying to find results or a report.

The ONLY article was on ESPN...and it was ONLY about Lance. It simply said (and I quote) that "...a man from Brazil..." won. No name, no time, no results. Just "a man from Brazil" won.

I screamed and was ready to chuck my cell phone out the window, but, hey, at least I found out how Lance did! :mad:

Zat:
I must say I understand us "true runners" feelings of outrage when Lance gets the huge attention that he does, even though he's not a "true runner". That's the point, see. Some people see him running and think, "Wow, if he thinks the marathon is a neat challenge, maybe I could just jog a few miles a day, etc.".....Maybe a good number of these Lance followers will turn into "true runners" after they experience it for awhile. I say it's fine that they get started this way (following Lance). You and I and the rest of us "true runners" don't have to pay attention to the Lance hype.
Why did America become enthralled with Armstrong in the first place? That's the question in my mind. Americans have not been cycling fans in the past. After LeMond got shot up while pheasant hunting I believe America gravitated to the Tour....Here was another "death bed to champion" story and America loves those stories. Glenn Cunningham's was one of my very first running stories. Bob Richards ('48 and '52 pole vault champ, Wheaties first athlete on the box) made a dozen or so short video's where he told story after story of the Glenn Cunningham's of the world. After watching these in PE/health class in jr high school I knew what I wanted to be AN ATHLETE! America still loves Lance because he is one of the best "death bed to champion" stories that will ever be told.:)

[Wolverine318]

Lately, I have just been shaking my head at the sports pundits saying how amazing Lance's time was. The best one was Mike Wilbon on PTI saying Lance should be able to compete with the elite runners like Legat or even top American runners like Ritz or Meb. I can understand their ignorance of the sport of running. In sports news our sport is on page 6 next to curling results. I could care less how popular running is.

[billgull]

... Where are the flatbed trucks located?
And, what time do I have to report for loading duty? ...

[Braavo Furgi]

Wineturtle, where'd you find the Malley quote?
THAT is what running is to me.:cool:

[patti]

I read Dean was on Conan O' Brien. Hmmm.

[wineturtle]

... Where are the flatbed trucks located?
And, what time do I have to report for loading duty? ...

FIRST GO VOTE!!!

Then meet Bill Masen at the loading docks he'll see you coming!(ugh!! obscure reference to the Wyndham book included for malmo's enjoyment;) )

[Wayne B]

WiT,
You sent me an e-mail saying Talpos was women's pacesetter w/o evidence. I've found evidence here. (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/06/sports/sportsspecial/06pace.html?ref=sportsspecial)

[Zat0pek]

Here's the distinction I draw.

I completely agree with patti that any PR the event can get is good for the event. It draws attention to the NYC marathon. That's good. That's very good because more attention means more opportunities for sponsorhip dollars, TV, etc. That's very good. But it's really only good for that event.

But there is a big difference between being good for the event and good for the sport.

Lance certainly drew positive attention to the event, but he didn't help the sport a lick. That is illustrated by my point that they didn't even name the winners or the time. The PR only helps the sport if there is some kind of connection or spillover from the event to the sport. Lance didn't do that (neither did Oprah or PDiddy or Kim Alexis or Will Farrell. . .). The general public is no more engaged in or knowledgeable about the sport of marathoning than they were before.

[KevinM]

My point exactly, Zat.

And as I believe I mentioned earlier, the only increased coverage that this brought the race was coverage about Lance. The elite portion of the race DEFINITELY received less exposure directly because of LA's running.

The national TV recap show for the race was one hour, as with previous years, but LA's appearance meant less coverage of elites.

[wineturtle]

Wayne, I said I thought she was and I'd review the tape in AM in my board post, I then sent you an E-mail of race results world wide from this weekend with my comment as a header- She is a pacer-. The lead story was NYCM in the NYC narrative Luminita is identified as a pace setter.
Since my memory would not be evidence and my review of the tape would only repeat what the announcers said that would not be evidence. If you would have looked at what I sent to go along with the statement-she was a pacer- you would see another second hand account of her status by Dave Monti - he is or was the Elite Athlete coordinator of the NYM-might be wrong also so not evidence either.
You found it in the NY Times so now the preponderance of evidence point to my memory being right.
Luminita Talpos and her place in LL history is now put to proper rest.

Of course my memory may be wrong about all this and I never saw the Ground Hog this morning.:D :D :D :D

[Wayne B]

WiT,
You sounded like you took offense at my definitive evidence. If that was the case, my apologies. It wasn't my intent to question your veracity. BTW, I've revised my blog (http://scootersweightloss.blogspot.com/) post on my day at the marathon.

[wineturtle]

I would think you of all LLers would understand that my posts usually come with a :D ,;) ,:rolleyes: , or :p implied or posted..... BUT on review of your post maybe I should have been offended!!!.





Edit- Are you?Mathew in for Footie and Sac's?? Any one else going to FootLocker NE on the 25th??

[Wayne B]

In!