Tom Cruise- Scientology, controversial beliefs

[JaredR]

Okay, I don't have a story to link to yet. I'll find one later. This upset me though. Again, I don't know exactly what happened, I only just saw it on the news.

Tom Cruise said that Brook Shields made a bad decision by taking anti-depressants for her post partum depression. Of course, his Scientology beliefs are behind what he said.

I strongly disagree with what he said and I think it was quite offensive of him to say.

What do you guys think of this incident and/or the entire issue of Scientologist's beliefs about drug use? What do you think about Scientology in general? I don't know much about it. Any Scientologists here with an opinion?

[Brumund-Smith]

Charles Manson was a scientologist and he used to encourage the use of LSD.

[CTsnapple]

I dislike the church of scientology on it's drug stance because they continue to spread false information about marijuana and hurt any medical or decrim movement.

I had gone through there website a while back and I'm not in the mood to go through it again, but most of the information is incorrectly given, some being flat out lies.
http://www.notodrugs-yestolife.org/page08.htm

[JaredR]

I dislike the church of scientology on it's drug stance because they continue to spread false information about marijuana and hurt any medical or decrim movement.

I had gone through there website a while back and I'm not in the mood to go through it again, but most of the information is incorrectly given, some being flat out lies.
http://www.notodrugs-yestolife.org/page08.htm

Is that a scientology source?

I don't know about others, but I smoked marijuana once, and it didn't leave me feeling worse afterwards or with a craving for more. I actually ended up just feeling pleasant for about two whole days afterwards. Oh well.

Back to my original post, Tom Cruise needs to put a sock in it. I gaurantee he's never felt the most horrible of depression. Believe what you want, but I gaurantee if Tom Cruise could feel some of the depression I've felt in my life, he wouldn't have a word to say about it.

[Jwaksman]

One religion is just as bad as the next. It's no worse than someone who is really Christian and keeps talking about that religion all the time.

[running high]

All I know on the situation is that Cruise blames rampant use of prescription drugs by American teens for lowering SAT scores. Seems logical that it would have a bad effect, but I'm not that educated.

[MoMo]

Clearly, Americans (and not just Americans) use WAY too many prescription drugs.

But Cruise takes the anti-drug argument too far. Clearly, drugs are extremely useful -- even life-saving -- against clinical depression, post-partum blues, bipolar disorder, etc.

Cruise seems to be going over the top lately. He apparently insisted on taking his Hollywood producers on a FOUR HOUR tour of the local Scientology center, of having a Scientology tent on the site of his latest film shoot; and on a recent Oprah, he apparently was bouncing around the room like a drunk monkey.

I'm not sure he's the greatest advertisement for Scientology, or for his way of life.

[TrackDaddy]

Medication for critical medical issues are generally useful. But even they are overprescribed.

I have to say I agree with Tom Cruise about the behavioral drugs to an extent.

Consider:

How many people have to be overweight before it's realized that.."that's just who they are." Why do we think we can fix people when the truth is that....they ain't broke.

We're all wired differently in certain ways.

What makes it a disorder? Societal "norms?"

What's normal?

If a significant segment of the population has a "disorder" such as ADD...is it really a "disorder" at all?

Or is it....just them?

Okay...they can't pay attention as well as others. Some people need more sleep, talk more than others, sweat in their palms, stutter, pee alot, snore, etc., etc.,etc....

Lets give all of them some dope and make them average like us. :rolleyes:

I told a guy the other day that the fact that the average man is 5'9" only means that....

Practically no one is. :cool:

You need extremes to get an average.

That is to say...it takes all kinds.

As for the scientology mumb...er...stuff...I will only say I disagree.

[CTsnapple]

Is that a scientology source?


It was linked to their website, and the homepage about it has several scientology links and references.

Same site, just the first page (http://www.notodrugs-yestolife.org/index.htm)

[Zat0pek]

I completely agree about the over-perscription of this country, but to go the other direction - never use perscription drugs - is just as stupid. The fact that we turn to a pill to solve most of our daily problems tells you just about everything negative about our culture.

And TrackDaddy, I'll be more direct about Scientology: It's a cult, and its members are all nuts, in my never-to-be-humble opinion.

[TrackDaddy]

And I agree Zat about under-medicating ill patients.

Reminds me of the Kentuckian who refused to take his ill daughter to see a doctor because he said "God will heal her."

And no doubt He may have had her dad took her to the hospital. But he didn't and she died.

There's a scripture that says "Not to tempt (test) the Lord your God."

Besides...Luke, Christs disciple, was a physician.

Apparently they're useful.

[New York XC]

reminds me of a joke i once heard, lemme try to remember it....

This old lady lived by this large river. She was very religious and she lived alone. One spring the river flooded and her yard began to fill with water. A neighboor waded over to her house and tried to take her to safety but the old lady declined him. "The Lord will look out for me" she said and the neighboor left. Later, after the water had risen even higher, a police boat came to her house and tried to get her to evacuate. Again, the old lady declined, saying "The Lord will look out for me". Later still, as the waters had engulfed her whole house except for the roof, which is where the old lady now was, a helicopter came to her house to try to air lift her out. For the third time the old lady again declined, giving the same reason as before; "the Lord will look out for me". The helicopter left and the lady drowned a few hours later. As she arrived at the Pearly Gates, she was puzzled about why the Lord had let her die so she asked Saint Peter what had happend. Saint Peter was aghast and looked through his papers and said "I just don't understand how your here! I thought we sent your neighbor, the boat, and a helicopter for you!"

[JaredR]

That's a very cool story.

[TJPatriot]

I disagree with Cruise, again. Ask an ADD patient how they do on tests without drugs vs how they do with drugs. (By drugs I mean Adderall, Ritalin etc)

I actually rock on most tests. Once I get focused on something and really into it I'm fine. Problem is that sometimes I'll have to settle down (say we get to an essay part and I'm unsure, I'll really start sidetracking and sometimes I'd even spend 10-20min just daydreaming and spacing out...) Usually I'm fine on tests, but tests interest me, and the thing about ADD is that it's only truly a problem if you're doing something that isn't fully interesting to you. Tests always interested me, so I didn't have much of a problem. Now...any other school work... :rolleyes:

Fyi, I have ADD and I have not been medicated since 4th grade. It made me not like to eat food (I lost any craving for food and nothing tasted good, even though I was still hungry) and I have not returned to medication. I've seriously thought about going back onto medication though.

[Zat0pek]

Ask an ADD patient how they do on tests without drugs vs how they do with drugs. (By drugs I mean Adderall, Ritalin etc)

My sister has her Masters in Special Education with an emphasis in gifted ed. One of the hallmarks of a gifted kid (at least two standard deviations from the mean on a standardized IQ test, usually top 2% or so) is very short attention spans because the bore so easily. Think of it like this: Picture a standard bell curve. Assume a standard classroom is geared towards the norm. Special ed kids two standard deviations to the left, gifted kids two standard deviations to the right. Take a kid of average IQ and plop them in a special ed room. You would expect that kid to go nuts from boredom. The same thing happens when put a gifted kid in a normal classroom. Square pegs in round holes.

My point to all of this is that ADD is probably the most over-diagnosed and over medicated condition in the history of medicine. And quite often its being done to exceptionally bright, energetic kids that are so bored in school they could scream. Easiest thing to do is medicate 'em into compliance.

That said, where the condition does actually exist, the new meds are nothing short of a miracle.

[Kalaby]

Perhaps ole' Tommy boy would like to share some of his wisdom regarding marriage. The guy is a borderline crackpot IMO.

[KenA55]

Perhaps ole' Tommy boy would like to share some of his wisdom regarding marriage. The guys is a borderline crackpot IMO.

Hey! I got here first!
:D

[Kalaby]

Hey! I got here first!
:D

And you know more about running than Cruise. We'll keep you!!! ;)

[harrier12]

I actually rock on most tests. Once I get focused on something and really into it I'm fine. Problem is that sometimes I'll have to settle down (say we get to an essay part and I'm unsure, I'll really start sidetracking and sometimes I'd even spend 10-20min just daydreaming and spacing out...) Usually I'm fine on tests, but tests interest me, and the thing about ADD is that it's only truly a problem if you're doing something that isn't fully interesting to you. Tests always interested me, so I didn't have much of a problem. Now...any other school work... :rolleyes:

That sounds all too familiar. I spent most of elementary school quite confused as to why I could get done with my tests and have to sit on my hands for half an hour while the rest of the class finished. Classwork was unending tedium unless I liked what we were doing, or had snuck in a book of my own to read. Never took medicine for the ADD, parents weren't too keen on that, and they didn't tell me I had it until 7th grade or so, since it didn't seem to impede learning excessively. Good elementary school teachers for the most part-ex. acclerated math work in 2nd grade.

My sister has her Masters in Special Education with an emphasis in gifted ed. One of the hallmarks of a gifted kid (at least two standard deviations from the mean on a standardized IQ test, usually top 2% or so) is very short attention spans because the bore so easily. Think of it like this: Picture a standard bell curve. Assume a standard classroom is geared towards the norm. Special ed kids two standard deviations to the left, gifted kids two standard deviations to the right. Take a kid of average IQ and plop them in a special ed room. You would expect that kid to go nuts from boredom. The same thing happens when put a gifted kid in a normal classroom. Square pegs in round holes.

My point to all of this is that ADD is probably the most over-diagnosed and over medicated condition in the history of medicine. And quite often its being done to exceptionally bright, energetic kids that are so bored in school they could scream. Easiest thing to do is medicate 'em into compliance.

That said, where the condition does actually exist, the new meds are nothing short of a miracle.

Unfortunately, even the gifted and AP/Honors classes were like that for me. By the time I got to high school, I was finding it more and more difficult to be in the quote-unquote college prep classes due to the necessity of working with the slowest learners. I thought that when I got into AP/Honors classes it would be better, and for a time it was. However, by junior year, I was having problems concentrating in class again-out came the books. Even in English-one of my favorite subjects-anything that was not debate or pressure-writing an AP practice essay was like nails on a chalkboard, and time would slow to a crawl.

Even in AP level courses, teachers must cater to the slowest people in the class, and with more and more parents pushing their kids into AP classes (even when they aren't capable), those classes can be as trying for a gifted child as college preparatory classes are.

[JaredR]

Yeah, it sounds familiar to me too! I failed classes and dropped out of every grade from 8th-12th and didn't graduate high school. It must have been because I was just far to gifted to fit in to their system. That had to be it.

[Sebrle]

Trust your brain before you trust chemicals. Everyone learns differently.

I've always been a book learner vs verbal (in one ear out the other/daydream). Every Major prof I had excused me from lecture.

[MoMo]

Somehow, we used to just DEAL with tedium -- back in the dark old days of yore.

Like everyone else, I spent plenty of understimulated hours in the classroom. But I tend to see a silver lining. It can propel a student into productive bouts of daydreaming, which can only strengthen the imagination-gland -- an organ that seems seriously underdeveloped these days.

Drugs, for THIS kind of problem, are nothing but a crutch.

[JaredR]

Somehow, we used to just DEAL with tedium -- back in the dark old days of yore.

Like everyone else, I spent plenty of understimulated hours in the classroom. But I tend to see a silver lining. It can propel a student into productive bouts of daydreaming, which can only strengthen the imagination-gland -- an organ that seems seriously underdeveloped these days.

Drugs, for THIS kind of problem, are nothing but a crutch.

Haha, I definately agree about the "imagination-gland". It probably is underdeveloped these days. And I would imagine a large percentage of kids that are put on ADD drugs get that imagination gland kind of zapped away. I do believe that a small percentage of kids can benefit from "ADD drugs" but yeah, they're way over-prescribed.

I think the problem is that schools don't have the money to provide "ADD" or "ADHD" kids with a learning environment that suits them. Parents don't have the money to put them in special schools, where a learning environment could be customized for them, so parents put them on "ADD drugs" that just zap their energy and enthusiasm and interest, etc. Some kids obviously need different learning environments.

[XCrnr9]

Sorry this isn't on topic but here's a semi-related humorous article.

http://theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4119&n=0&id=4159

[exjersey1]

Some kids obviously need different learning environments.

Yes, SOME do need different environments. But IMO most being lumped into the ADD/ADHD morass simply need to be told to "Sit the he!! down and shut the fuque up and stop disturbing everybody else. If you wanna be a clown then run away and join the damn circus."

You don't give kids Ritalin, et. al. simply because their parents have always been afraid to tell them "no" and "raised" them by turning on the TV and walking away.

[mzungu]

Medication for critical medical issues are generally useful. But even they are overprescribed.

I have to say I agree with Tom Cruise about the behavioral drugs to an extent.

Consider:

How many people have to be overweight before it's realized that.."that's just who they are." Why do we think we can fix people when the truth is that....they ain't broke.

We're all wired differently in certain ways.

What makes it a disorder? Societal "norms?"

What's normal?

If a significant segment of the population has a "disorder" such as ADD...is it really a "disorder" at all?

Or is it....just them?

Okay...they can't pay attention as well as others. Some people need more sleep, talk more than others, sweat in their palms, stutter, pee alot, snore, etc., etc.,etc....

Lets give all of them some dope and make them average like us. :rolleyes:

I told a guy the other day that the fact that the average man is 5'9" only means that....

Practically no one is. :cool:

You need extremes to get an average.

That is to say...it takes all kinds.

As for the scientology mumb...er...stuff...I will only say I disagree.

greatest post ever, td!

[mzungu]

My sister has her Masters in Special Education with an emphasis in gifted ed. One of the hallmarks of a gifted kid (at least two standard deviations from the mean on a standardized IQ test, usually top 2% or so) is very short attention spans because the bore so easily. Think of it like this: Picture a standard bell curve. Assume a standard classroom is geared towards the norm. Special ed kids two standard deviations to the left, gifted kids two standard deviations to the right. Take a kid of average IQ and plop them in a special ed room. You would expect that kid to go nuts from boredom. The same thing happens when put a gifted kid in a normal classroom. Square pegs in round holes.

My point to all of this is that ADD is probably the most over-diagnosed and over medicated condition in the history of medicine. And quite often its being done to exceptionally bright, energetic kids that are so bored in school they could scream. Easiest thing to do is medicate 'em into compliance.

That said, where the condition does actually exist, the new meds are nothing short of a miracle.

also, a very good post!

i heard that they medicate roughly 8-10% of boys between 8 and 15 or something like that, usually ritalin. the ADD drugs do not produce better grades, but rather make it easier to control the kids. so, it's more a power issue and an advertising thing. the anti-depressants are a crutch with no proven positive effect on suicide rates. in fact, there are negative effects on suicide rates, as brit. gov't proved recently. when life is depressing, change what's depressing you or change your attitude, and it's got to come from within. other people cannot cure your problems, but getting a better spouse/school/location/weather/job will do a lot. it amazes me that scientists discover a couple chemicals in the brain where they can adjust their level up and down with drugs, and then they claim they handle the complex, all-over, vague concept of depression. total bs.

[Dyenimator]

I'd rather trust those chemicals. No matter how hard I try to devote myself to a task while I'm not on Ritalin, nothing can match my attentiveness while the drug is affecting me. Stimulants aren't just used for ADHD patients, but also for us regular ADD'ers who just suffer from bouts of boredom. I can tell it's helped me when I'm working. I only wish that I had known about this a few years ago, maybe I'd still be in college.

[Zat0pek]

I've always wondered what we would have missed out on if people like Edison, Einstein, Franklin, Jefferson, DaVinci, and Michaelangelo - brilliant individuals with profoundly productive minds often in very diverse fields like mathematics, art, science and politics - had grown up in this era of ADD meds.

But I also wonder what we have lost from people that needed them in past when they were unavailable.

[Zat0pek]

Haha, I definately agree about the "imagination-gland". It probably is underdeveloped these days. And I would imagine a large percentage of kids that are put on ADD drugs get that imagination gland kind of zapped away. I do believe that a small percentage of kids can benefit from "ADD drugs" but yeah, they're way over-prescribed.

I think the problem is that schools don't have the money to provide "ADD" or "ADHD" kids with a learning environment that suits them. Parents don't have the money to put them in special schools, where a learning environment could be customized for them, so parents put them on "ADD drugs" that just zap their energy and enthusiasm and interest, etc. Some kids obviously need different learning environments.

Intersting you should say that.

My daughters' pre-school teacher has her Masters in Early Childhood Education, and they have four kids. The oldest boy tested off the charts at an early age. They had a helluva time with the kid in school until his mom finally figured out that what he needed was to simply have his brain occupied all the time. So, they kept him constantly scheduled with highly diverse activities - from sports to art - from morning till night. He had a very creative mind, and she knew that if it wasn't focused and channeled, all that creativity would be used for less desirable activities.

It worked.

Last month he graduated from Yale with his in Masters in Art. He's already had several showings at galleries in New York and has back orders for his work.

[MoMo]

... and he's only 12 years old!

:D

[JaredR]

Intersting you should say that.

My daughters' pre-school teacher has her Masters in Early Childhood Education, and they have four kids. The oldest boy tested off the charts at an early age. They had a helluva time with the kid in school until his mom finally figured out that what he needed was to simply have his brain occupied all the time. So, they kept him constantly scheduled with highly diverse activities - from sports to art - from morning till night. He had a very creative mind, and she knew that if it wasn't focused and channeled, all that creativity would be used for less desirable activities.

It worked.

Last month he graduated from Yale with his in Masters in Art. He's already had several showings at galleries in New York and has back orders for his work.

That's awesome. If only more parents and teachers had the time or energy or will or whatever to give kids more of a customized learning environment, well, that would just be awesome.

[Jwaksman]

Absolutely, our society is getting out of control with this "self esteem" nonsense. We're so afraid of having someone lose that no one ever gets to feel how great it is to win. And the thing is, the kids aren't stupid. They know which are the best students and which are the worst.


If you have two students, one of whom is smarter than the other, then it's stupid to try to have the other student "catch up" to the other. By virtue of being not as smart, they will clearly fall further behind under a natural situation.


The goal should be to help every student achieve as much as possible. This is like the whole silliness over "income inequality." When you're judging how much money one person has, why does it matter what someone else has? If you are richer, why do you care if someone is way richer? So, same thing here. If a poor student can be made a little more knowledgeable, why does it matter if a gifted student is really allowed to explore their potential?


I really think that this isn't about the kids as much as it is about the parents. I've never met a mother who thought that her child wasn't "above average." So by keeping all kids on par with each other, we avoid a situation where a parent has to admit that their child is a dunce. Sorry Moms, but some kids are dunces. And I'd venture a guess that about 50% of you have children that are "below average."

[Jwaksman]

Of course, we're getting to the point where no one is learning anything. Classes spend so much time on self esteem and political correctness, that few kids learn any real knowledge. And I'm not just talking about math and science, which fewer and fewer Americans are proficient at as well. I'm talking about things like history, which I believe is very important for students to learn.


There's a girl that I knew at school this year who wasn't an athlete and didn't do any extracurriculars, so she got into Columbia on academics alone (or affirmative action, since she was black). She went to a very expensive, fancy private high school. She's also a liberal arts major (she was a senior), so she doesn't have the good-at-science, bad-at-everything-else excuse. So she should be more knowledgable than just about anyone that you will meet.

One day me and my roommate were asking her about history (cause he's a history major and I read a ton of history books). She needed a clue to figure out that the Declaration of Independence was written in 1776. And she thought that the revolutionary war hadn't started yet. She had never heard of most of our presidents, and she'd never heard of Fort Sumter, Jefferson Davis, Robert E Lee or Ulysses S Grant. She'd never heard of the terrorist attack at the 1972 olympics, of mark spitz, or of Jesse Owens. It went on and on and on... and by the end I was just completely depressed at the state of our nation's children and future...

[Kalaby]

Not all Ivy League degrees are equal.

[Zat0pek]

But sadly, there's a trend these days towards not making anyone feel left out, so you see these kinds of programs being cut, and being replaced by programs to suit the Lowest Common Denominator.

As a result, it's taking longer and longer for kids to figure out what a Lowest Common Denominator even is.

Kansas has a state law mandating that gifted education be available as part of the special ed program. Gifted kids are counted as special ed kids in the funding formula, meaning that basically they count twice in the funding formula. They are even given IEP's, same as other special ed kids.

About eight years ago I successfully sued a tiny school district on that law. My client was a high school junior. Between her sophomore and junior years in high school, she spent part of the summer visiting her brother in college. She was allowed to audit two classes and was told by her profs that she easily did "A" work. Living in a tiny town and now convinced she was ready to handle college level work, she sought to have an IEP for early graduation and graduate at the end of her junior year. Everyone - including the special ed director and the principal - signed off on it, packing two year of high school into one. She would take two classes by independent study with the assistance of the teachers, which they agreed to. Then the superintendant found out and hit the ceiling. He understood what a financial hit they would take if she wasn't in school the next year.

So, he cut off her access to the teachers, simply gave her the books and told her she was totally on her own and that he would be making up her test-out exam, not not the teachers. Unbeknownst to her, that involved (according to my education expert witness) a four-hour Masters-degree level exam. Oh, yeah, and he made up a new grading scale - she had to get a 98. Funny, school policy said a "C" would suffice. None of this, of course, was in the IEP. And they waited until two days before graduation to tell her that she "failed" American Government by "only" getting a B on the four-hour Masters degree level exam.

Long story short, we didn't even have to have a hearing. The school caved within a couple of months, reconvened the IEP team and they suddenly voted that she had met all of the requirements for graduation. Of course, they wouldn't let her have the ceremony in the gym like the rest of the kids, just as a final dig. In fact, the school was so punitive towards her that when she was named a National Merit Scholar Finalist, they refused to release her name to the media. When the names of some other area kids came out, she called the Merit folks to ask why her name wasn't released. She was informed that it was schools responsibility to release it. Of course, they refused. They also didn't include her name or picture in the graduationing class photo montage. To this day, if you go into the school, there is no visible record that she every graduated.

I guess I must have really pissed them off. There had been a lot of media interest in the story, and as soon as I filed the complaint in federal court, I faxed it to every electronic and print media outlet within 200 miles. This was, of course, before the school had even been served or knew that it had been sued. The TV press coverage that evening was hysterical; the district was stammering about a lawsuit they hadn't even seen and when ambushed by one TV reporter a district official had that deer-in-the-headlights look and said he didn't know anything about it. I love it when a plan comes together.

Oh, yeah, last I heard my client graduated college in three years and was working towards becoming either a physics professor or concert pianist; she hadn't decided which to pursue yet.

[KenA55]

Doesn't matter where you go to school- things that interest you grab your attention and you seek out info on them with or without direction; things that don't interest you, you will learn only as much as you're forced to and retain very little. Obviously the young lady mentioned above simply had no real interest in history despite that being her choice of major- or she would certainly have been familiar with most of the things you mentioned.

I'm much more used to seeing college students with a real drive to gain a good understanding of their area of future expertise. But there are those cases where they're simply in it to pass and get the degree, knowledge is secondary and usually fleeting- because that just isn't their real interest.

The rising percentages of young people getting college degrees means a greater percentage just there to get a diploma any way they can. And of course smaller percentages that are truly passionate about their field.

So I really wonder sometimes just what the benefit of educating the indifferent really is; though even if a person comes away with a net gain of near zero, there're certainly bigger wastes of time in this world. It sure isn't going to hurt them to coast through 4 more years of school.

But the young lady you used as an example- her test scores couldn't have been absolutely miserable or there would have been better choices, affirmative action or not- she must know enough about something to get in in the first place? Heck, even our large public U is turning away more applicants than it's accepting these days.

[Jwaksman]

Oh, she is clearly more knowledgable than 95% of Americans. That was the punch line of my post, that is she was that dumb, I can't fathom how little the average American knows about our history...

[KenA55]

Up here the majority of people could certainly tell you where Fort Sumter was, and what war it played a pivotal role in- college educated or not- it really is hard to imagine any history major at the 95th percentile not having a grasp of the basic events and timetable of the civil war. Not to mention some of the other things you mentioned. What in the world are they testing for exactly when they assigned that percentile?

[Jwaksman]

She wasn't a history major. I can guarantee you that if you walk up to random people on the street that the vast, vast majority of people will not know what war that Ft. Sumter is associated with.

[KenA55]

Ok, gotcha. I don't know where I got the idea in my head that her liberal arts major was in history.

[Jwaksman]

Ok, gotcha. I don't know where I got the idea in my head that her liberal arts major was in history.



No, my roommate is a history major, focusing mostly on American history, so he knew all of the stuff that I mentioned. He was as baffled as I was at how a seemingly very intelligent person did not know such basic things. The one I was most surprised about, since she seems to care so much about civil rights and knows so much about black and civil rights leaders of the past 50 years, was that she didn't know who Jesse Owens was! Even when we were like, "The black guy who won all those gold medals at the '36 Olympics in front of Hitler. Trying to disprove that the aryans were the super race. You know that guy?"

"No" :rolleyes:

[harrier12]

Question to the lounge: how many of these events, people, places and dates in American history can you identify and what their individual significance is (just a number)?

1. Teapot Dome Scandal
2. Thomas Paine
3. Dorothea Dix
4. 11 November 1918
5. Articles of the Confederation
6. Robert McNamara
7. Manila Bay
8. 19 October 1781
9. William Seward
10. 49th parallel

[jersey_guy]

Off the top of my head I know 8 of the 10 (not sure about Dix and I can only guess 1781 was one of the Revolutionary War battles but not sure which)

[Jwaksman]

Some of those are easy, but some are hard. I don't know what happened 10/19/1871. And the names Dorothea Dix and Robert McNamara sound familiar, but at this point after waking up this morning, I can't remember what they did. So, I'll say 7.

[Jwaksman]

Oh, wait, 1781, I'm dyslexic.... hahahaha



Well, that's the battle of Yorktown. And an interesting anecdote about Yorktown was that it was one of the first examples of chemical/germ warfare, if not the first. British Gen. Cornwallis, surrounded and desperate, infected hundreds of slaves with smallpox and had them walk towards the US lines, in an effort to get as many Americans sick as possible.

[Dyenimator]

Question to the lounge: how many of these events, people, places and dates in American history can you identify and what their individual significance is (just a number)?

1. Teapot Dome Scandal
2. Thomas Paine
3. Dorothea Dix
4. 11 November 1918
5. Articles of the Confederation
6. Robert McNamara
7. Manila Bay
8. 19 October 1781
9. William Seward
10. 49th parallel

6, 49th parallel, is Continental US's northern border, right?

[harrier12]

6, 49th parallel, is Continental US's northern border, right? Yes, and we had a little go around with the British over where exactly the border would be.

Jwaks, Dorothea Dix was a campaigner for improved treatment of the mentally ill during the mid-19th century and Robert McNamara was the Secretary of Defense under Kennedy and Johnson-responsible for a few mistakes like the F-111A/F-111B (and the revolt of the admirals that ensued because of the latter) as well as policies in Vietnam during the period 1961-1968.

[Sweat]

Who cares. Tome Cruise rules.

[KenA55]

Who cares. Tome Cruise rules.

Haha, yeah, looks and charisma will unlock doors in this shallow world that simple good sense alone may never open.

[JaredR]

Haha, yeah, looks and charisma will unlock doors in this shallow world that simple good sense alone may never open.
Very well put Ken. I agree fully.

[TrackDaddy]

Haha, yeah, looks and charisma will unlock doors in this shallow world that simple good sense alone may never open.Your avatar looks familiar.

I'm sure I've been there before, but I just can't seem to...remember when...

At any rate...it's been a while. :)

[JaredR]

Your avatar looks familiar.

I'm sure I've been there before, but I just can't seem to...remember when...

At any rate...it's been a while. :)

I thought the same thing! I was like, "I know I've seen that before but what the hell is that!? I think I may have been there but I'm not sure."

[mzungu]

Ok, gotcha. I don't know where I got the idea in my head that her liberal arts major was in history.

This is where you got it:
Jwaks wrote:
"One day me and my roommate were asking her about history (cause he's a history major and I read a ton of history books)."

The grammatical structure of the sentence makes you think that SHE will be the history major. Why ask her about history? Because SHE's a history major. that's what the expectation would be and that's why I had to read that sentence a second time to get that.

History knowledge might be quite selective. For instance, you might find extremely detailed knowledge about certain periods and nothing about other periods. My history major included ZERO comprehensive survey courses and VERY FEW big picture political histories, although a ton of very selective war histories. For instance, the required History 301 did not give a history of Europe, but rather examined close-up certain modes of life, e.g. peasant life in the fourteenth century, the picaresque novel, the Adventurous Simplicissimus--a period novel of the 30 years' war, which explained day to day life from the soldier's view then. There has been a sea change in history as a discipline over the past thirty years, involving the application of different disciplines to history (economic histories (of course that derives originally from Marx), psychological histories (starting from Freud and then the crappy "Young Man Luther" by Erik Erikson), sociological histories, technological histories (e.g. "Gums, Germs, and Steel"), etc.) and especially the treatment of ordinary life in place of GREAT MEN and GREAT EVENTS stories. There are merits and demerits to this approach.

I agree that there is far too much of that high esteem teaching. I was actually reprimanded at one school for expressing my educated assessment of John Dewey's philosophy. This kind of thing goes on primarily outside the sciences, because no one would ever tell a physics professor not to criticize e.g. the particle theory of light.

[BeamonStreet]

Yes, and we had a little go around with the British over where exactly the border would be.

Jwaks, Dorothea Dix was a campaigner for improved treatment of the mentally ill during the mid-19th century and Robert McNamara was the Secretary of Defense under Kennedy and Johnson-responsible for a few mistakes like the F-111A/F-111B (and the revolt of the admirals that ensued because of the latter) as well as policies in Vietnam during the period 1961-1968.And Teapot Dome was the most significant ethical/moral debacle in Presidential history, worse than Marilyn Monroe, worse than a small break-in discovered back in 1972, worse than a couple of back room blow-jobs in 1998.

[exjersey1]

And Teapot Dome was the most significant ethical/moral debacle in Presidential history, worse than Marilyn Monroe, worse than a small break-in discovered back in 1972, worse than a couple of back room blow-jobs in 1998.


Worse than Contra-gate?

[harrier12]

I neglected to mention that I was an AP US History student in high school, where you had to learn all this and much more, and understand the significance so you could write stellar essays come April. I had the most wonderful teacher in the world for this class, five-hour final and thirty page chapter summaries notwithstanding. It's quite remarkable personally that I've retained so much of it after four years.

[Sulus]

Question to the lounge: how many of these events, people, places and dates in American history can you identify and what their individual significance is (just a number)?

1. Teapot Dome Scandal
2. Thomas Paine
3. Dorothea Dix
4. 11 November 1918
5. Articles of the Confederation
6. Robert McNamara
7. Manila Bay
8. 19 October 1781
9. William Seward
10. 49th parallel

Hmm....I feel kinda sketch because I got a bunch "half-right" Thomas Paine I knew was considered a founding father and wrote something important (Common Sense) but couldn't remember exactly what it was about. Dorthea Dix...not so much. Manila Bay I guessed was a battle in the Spanish-American War, but if someone told me it wasn't but was rather something dealing with WWII, I would've beleived it. 19/10/1781 likewise I had guessed was the surrender of Cornwallis, but I wasn't sure. The 49th paralell is kinda sketch because of how important the 48th paralell was in more recent history...but yeah, "Forty-Nine Forty or fight" and all that...and we didn't fight. The other ones no prob. (And yes I took AP US waaay back in the day, got a 5, whatever.)

But what does knowing this stuff really do for most people?

[exjersey1]

But what does knowing this stuff really do for most people?

"Those who do not remember history are condemned to repeat it."

[Kalaby]

But what does knowing this stuff really do for most people?

Let's ask Ken Jennings what he thinks about that! :D

[Kalaby]

Katie & Tom engaged! Maybe the third time down the aisle will be a charm for Mr. Cruise. :D

[JaredR]

I just think he needs a little Ritalin and Adderal.