Doing the 800/3200 double

[Calle8]

Can focusing on these two events (and NOT specifically training for the 1600) end up with "best" possible times for the two races? And can a HS runner peak for both at the same time, say for a state meet? Interested in the pros and cons of doing this, if there are any, from coaches and/or experienced runners. Gracias.

[rysheridan]

unless your running 1:45 your training doesnt have to be that specific for the races

[runneronfire]

I would think that you might have a little more success focusing on the 16/8 or the 32/16, but it probably won't make that much of a difference. Like rysheridan, your training for these events at a high school level isn't going to be that specific. The 800, however, will take a little bit more speed work, as you need to get used to running at 60 second quarter pace or faster, while the 3200 is a much more measured pace. Why do you want to focus on those two events anyway?

[rysheridan]

Can focusing on these two events (and NOT specifically training for the 1600) end up with "best" possible times for the two races? And can a HS runner peak for both at the same time, say for a state meet? Interested in the pros and cons of doing this, if there are any, from coaches and/or experienced runners. Gracias.

if you want to do both you have to focus on training for the 16. I want to run a fast 100 and marathon, but i can't train for both at the same time :p

[laxcrunner]

i did 800 and 2 mile together the other day, but i don't like going that way, it doesn't give me as much rest between races as mile and 2 mile, i think that you can definitely do 800 and 2 mile if you want, it just doesn't make much sense, 800 doesn't really help your 2 mile and 2 mile doesn't really help your 2 mile i think you'd be much better off with mile and 2 mile first off because it gives more rest and also because a fast mile makes the 2 mile much easier to handle, but at the same time i'd do some meets where you do the 800 because 800 really helps build speed endurance for the mile.

[trojanrunna]

i did 800 and 2 mile together the other day, but i don't like going that way, it doesn't give me as much rest between races as mile and 2 mile, i think that you can definitely do 800 and 2 mile if you want, it just doesn't make much sense, 800 doesn't really help your 2 mile and 2 mile doesn't really help your 2 mile i think you'd be much better off with mile and 2 mile first off because it gives more rest and also because a fast mile makes the 2 mile much easier to handle, but at the same time i'd do some meets where you do the 800 because 800 really helps build speed endurance for the mile.
read the post above. calle8, you can always hope for a sit and kick 3200.thats about all i can help you with.

[fightingmish08]

I raced the 800/3200 double a lot in high school, because the 1600 was before the 800, and the 800 was my best event and I wanted to be fresh for it. I wasn't a killer runner by any stretch of the imagination, but I did OK for a guy who also played baseball in the spring. Here's my advice if you want to train for and race the 800/3200 double:
-Get a good base, it's important for both events. Anywhere from 30-100+ mpw based on what you can do without breaking down and what has worked for you in the past. Long runs should be about just over 20% of the week's mileage My best seasons in high school followed base phases of 50-55 mpw w/ long runs of 10-12 miles.
-Start doing some tempo and hill work a few weeks into the base phase. Stuff like 20 minutes continuous @ 30s/mile over 5k pace, or 5x mile @ the same pace w/ 1 minute recoveries. For the hill work, just find a good long hill and run up it controlled hard for a total of 1-2 miles of uphill running. Jog or walk down for the recovery.
-A month or so before the competitive season starts, start doing some workouts at both 800 and 3200 pace with full recovery. Try 10x400 @ 3200 pace with 400 jog and 2x4x200 @ 800 pace with 400 jog between reps and 800 jog between sets.
-About 12-10 weeks before you want to peak start focusing your workouts on VO2 work and lactate tolerance. VO2 workouts could be 5-7x600@ 3k pace with 10-30 seconds less than equal recovery, or 5-8x1000 @ 5k pace with 20-40 seconds less than equal recovery. Lactate tolerance workouts could be 10x400 @ mile pace w/ 60s rest, or 4-5x200-400 w/ the 200 @ just over 800 pace and the 400 @ just under mile pace.
-4 weeks before your goal race you should start hitting some peaking workouts like 2-3x600 w/ 8-12 minutes recovery @ 800 pace, or 200-400-200 @ 800 pace w/ 30 seconds rest (those are 800-specific workouts, but I feel like to be sharp you should really hit the speed more than the endurance. If you built a good base it should carry you through. I know this doesn't work for all people, but it will for most, especially high-schoolers.)
-Take it easy the week before your race. Strides 3 or 4 times and maybe one mini-workout of 4x200 @ 800 pace w/ 200 recovery 3 or 4 days out from the race.
-On race day, don't sit down after you finish the 800. Jog around a bit, eat half a banana w/ some sports drink or water, or have some energy gel w/ water. Stretch out well. About 15 minutes before the 3200 jog for a couple minutes, do 2 or 3 light strides, and then just chill and stretch until the gun, maybe doing one more light stride right before the start. If the break between the races is over 90 minutes you might need to do a little more to re-warm-up, but be sure not to do too much. The 800 took a lot out of your body.
A'ight, that's my $.02 worth. Good luck with your efforts. The 800/3200 double is a fun challenge.

[CL XC runner05]

Seems kind of crazy to me, but hey, guys have done it before. Have you ever thought about trying to get on the 4x800? That way, you will get way more rest for the other event you do that day. Also, If you are decent with speed, maybe you could try the 400 some too. I know a few guys that do the 400/800 double.

[DCtrack]

Don't take some of that advice above. You would need to train more for the 3200 than the 800. You can run a much better 800 off of 3200 training than you can a 3200 off of 800 training. Trust me, I have done it both ways. My sugesstion would be to just train for the mile/2 mile and then you can do short alactic sprintwork with full recovery to make sure that your nueromuscular system is ready. I promise you that you won't even run well in the 3200 even if it is a kicker's race b/c you wil be relying on your anaerobic system way too much just to stay with the leaders. The better aerobically trained guys would still beat you in a slow race. You can take this or not, but I promise you this adivce is golden. Better to sacrifice 1-2 seconds in an 800 than 30+ seconds in a 3200. Good luck.

[Calle8]

I feel I'm mining gold in these hills...muchas gracias otra vez

[fightingmish08]

Don't take some of that advice above. You would need to train more for the 3200 than the 800. You can run a much better 800 off of 3200 training than you can a 3200 off of 800 training. Trust me, I have done it both ways. My sugesstion would be to just train for the mile/2 mile and then you can do short alactic sprintwork with full recovery to make sure that your nueromuscular system is ready. I promise you that you won't even run well in the 3200 even if it is a kicker's race b/c you wil be relying on your anaerobic system way too much just to stay with the leaders. The better aerobically trained guys would still beat you in a slow race. You can take this or not, but I promise you this adivce is golden. Better to sacrifice 1-2 seconds in an 800 than 30+ seconds in a 3200. Good luck.
The gist of DCtrack's post is true, although not all of the specifics. My post addresses training for the 800/3200 double with a focus on the 800. That's how I did it because the 800 was my better event. Even though my post addresses the double with an 800 focus, it does provide a good enough aerobic base that I doubt you will perform 30 seconds slower than your potential in the 3200; it is possible that you will, though, if you are one of those people who just doesn't respond to speed work. But most young people respond pretty well to speed work. If you were to approach the double from the 3200 perspective you would want to use tempo runs more in your training, continuing them throughout your season. The use of hard reps would decrease, but needn't go away entirely unless you don't respond to them at all. Maybe DCtrack would care to address the specifics of his training for the double with a focus on the 3200?