Training idea...

[Timdog]

I've been wondering about this idea for a little bit. It seems to me like most people emphasize that you shouldn't do much quality work in the base phase and only have like a fartlek or LT run later on in the base. But why not maintain your other systems during the base also?

Here's how I see it. You build up your other systems (anaerobic capacity, anaerobic conditioning, and aerobic capacity) during your main season. But then during the base phase you ignore this work. Well, why not just maintain it a bit? Always have one session that hits that energy system? It doesn't have to be much. For aerobic capacity, do a few controlled 400s at the end of an easy run to help maintain that system. The volume/intensity doesn't have to be high at all and should be low during the base phase, but I still don't see why it should disappear.

Here's my thinking (which might be wrong):
During your track season, you improve your energy systems by 10%
Then you ignore these systems during your base phase and you lose 5% of the improvement
During XC, you rebuild upto 15% improvement (only 5% higher than your track levels)
etc.

Why not do this:
Improve by 10% during track
Maintain that 10% improvement during XC base
Improve another 10% during XC
Maintain that 20% improvement during your base phase
Improve another 10% during track
etc.

So I would essentially propose low volume medium intensity work on all systems during the base phase with the emphasis still being placed on your aerobic conditioning but also maintaining your other systems. What problems are there with this way of thinking?

Here would be a sample base week with my ideas implemented:
Mon: Easy run
Tues: Easy run + 2-4x200-400m hard hills (works anaerobic capacity)
Wed: easy run
Thurs: easy run + 1-3x400-800m controlled intervals
Fri: Easy run
Sat: LT run
Sun: Long run

Obviously, this is even easier with 2 a days, instead of tacking the workout onto the end of the run you just run that in the morning/afternoon and then your easy run during the other time.

[Tiocfaidh Ar La]

You are on the right track.

"... a myth or wrong preconceived idea that you can train neglecting a pace effort or a work in equivalent physiologic efforts and then you use the 'miraculous' taper and your body is in shape in 6-8 weeks of hard efforts." - Antonio Cabral, Portugese coaching genius

"Lose a training effort for 6-8 months and recover that or improve its quality in 4-5 weeks? Only by a miracle." - Cabral again

[WOOLYRUNS]

it's easier to maintain than build up again. i'm going to be emphasizing the maintain idea this summer. and i'm excited.

[RFXCrunner]

It is a fairly good seedling of an idea, but you have to take into account the multiple systems that your body has to use for you to run well. Your program sounds like it is on the same track as Coe-Martin, essentially a mix of all types of work year round, theoretically giving a runner better range, and the ability to peak at any time given enough notice.

The big problem I see is that you think you are losing progress in the base phase- that is simply not true, if you do your basework right. Your aerobic systems (slow twitch muscle, mainly) contributes far and away the most energy while you are running. Once you get above the mile, you're talking >90% of the energy you expend is aerobically generated. During the base phase, you work on maximizing those aerobic systems so that when your seasons rolls around, you can polish it, rather than try to build it during the season. Try not to look at the base phase as losing anything, just gaining in differnt areas. If you are 90% aerobic for an 3200m(in reality, the number is higher), and 10% anaerobic, then a 5% aerobic improvement will have a 900% greater effect on your racing than a 5% anaerobic improvement would. You may not have much of a kick, but you'll make up for it by running much faster overall.

You also have to take into account that your body does occasionally need time off to rest and recover from hard work that you have been doing, so you can't expect to keep infinitely building.

On the whole, though, you have a very good idea, and I would recommend you do some research into the Coe-Martin training system. Best of luck.

[Beans]

whatever works for you. I would only see waiting for that type of stuff only if youve taken a long break and are just getting back into things. But even then its iffy cause Kevin on my team, took over a month off and came into the first week doing interval work so id ont know. just forget everything i said here.

[Funnage]

The big problem I see is that you think you are losing progress in the base phase- that is simply not true, if you do your basework right. Your aerobic systems (slow twitch muscle, mainly) contributes far and away the most energy while you are running. Once you get above the mile, you're talking >90% of the energy you expend is aerobically generated. During the base phase, you work on maximizing those aerobic systems so that when your seasons rolls around, you can polish it, rather than try to build it during the season. Try not to look at the base phase as losing anything, just gaining in differnt areas. If you are 90% aerobic for an 3200m(in reality, the number is higher), and 10% anaerobic, then a 5% aerobic improvement will have a 900% greater effect on your racing than a 5% anaerobic improvement would. You may not have much of a kick, but you'll make up for it by running much faster overall.

You also have to take into account that your body does occasionally need time off to rest and recover from hard work that you have been doing, so you can't expect to keep infinitely building.


What I was going to say.

I think the most important thing you should do is basework... I'm not a fan of doing intervals or anything anaerobic (other than hills or strides) during a base phase because... Well a base phase is suppose to be where you develop your aerobic capabilities and sorta recharge for the next season, not work on your anaerobic development. Working out too hard too much is going to not get you anywhere because you're overtraining and the body doesn't have a chance to bounce back.

I tried that whole doing intervals on the track everyday back in high school and a year into college. It got me no where. When I say no where, I mean I say little improvements in anything through 3 years of following that rountine. After switching it up and focusing on mileage rather than intervals, I saw huge improvements. For example, I went from being able to only do 5:40 for 3 miles on nice flat terrain to being able to handle 5:30 for 5 miles on muddy, hilly course in one season because of having a nice base. And I even had to cut back on running higher mileage that season because of hip probelms.

[OldG]

As some have noted, in practical application probably more than 99% of the people who will read this thread have MUCH more to gain by increasing aerobic fitness in that time than they have to gain with spending more effort on their anaerobic qualities far from competition season.

It's also very difficult to make serious gains in aerobic fitness while also working on anaerobic fitness.

Your proposed schedule is pretty weird too. Those faster workouts are tiny--what are those going to accomplish? Maybe they wouldn't get in the way too much of the aerobic work (as long as you really felt you were recovered for the aerobic sessions when they came), BUT you don't really have much aerobic work in there either. Why are your two hardest days of the week back to back, and then you've got 5 easy days until the next?

I don't think you really have much of a plan here.

[Timdog]

Thanks for the replies guys. It all makes a little more sense. I guess I'll just stick with regular mileage/long runs/strides to keep basic speed/LT/fartleks added in later. I have read BTDR a little bit so I understand the Coe-Martin system a bit.

I really want to try and learn as much about training as possible and this idea was just something I had thought of during a run. I kept looking at the sample Coe schedules and wondering how the hell I could fit all those workouts in when I was only running 7 times a week. I guess I didn't realize that that level of training was more meant for elite level runners who can handle that workload and train 2-3x a day (especially the Africans who seem to put in a good bit of quality during the offseason from what I've read, but they also have a great aerobic base from years of previous training). Instead of trying to incorporate that amount of work now, I should just focus on getting up to the level where I might eventually handle that workload (I've only been running for a half year with a very week summer base (like 200 miles) and one cross season. I'm slow right now, but I know it takes awhile to get faster and I've started late (especially since I never played a sport before this cross season)).

Wow, that was a lot of parentheses. :p

[RFXCrunner]

Well, it certainly sounds like you're on the right track. The best thing you can possibly do is to educate yourself on how to train and then figure out what works best for you. Good luck with that.

[griep08]

LSD ftmfw

[SJtrack10]

In my opinion, the base phase should consist mostly of LSD, but I don't see any reason why some stress cannot be put on other systems as long as the primary focus is increasing aerobic capacity. Build your base but you should feel free to experiment and find out what is best for you. A hard workout once a week certainly won't hurt you. Probably a bad comparison, but Mottram has said in a few interviews that at any given point in a year he is something like 6 weeks away from being in sub 13 5k shape. Certainly everyone is not Craig Mottram, but from the little I understand about Mottram's training it seems as if he implements this strategy somewhat.