Who will win the 3200 at States?

[Slowkid]

The 800, 1600 and 3k steeple have threads, so why not the 3200?

1 321 Tommy Gruenewald 12 Fay.-Manlius-1 9:06.45
2 131 Zach Borenstein 12 Edgemont-2 9:10.64
3 257 Zach Predmore 12 Shenedehowa-1 9:13.61
4 545 Corey Robinson 12 Greece Athena-1 9:17.26
5 964 Terence Prial 12 Warwick Valley-1 9:18.24
6 256 Steve Murdock 12 Shenedehowa-1 9:18.49
7 115 Max Kasak 12 Byram Hills-2 9:18.54
8 1130 Kyle Merber 11 HHH West-1 9:20.97
9 906 Cory Reed 12 James O'Neill-2 9:21.24
10 1161 Giovanni Signoretti 11 Smithtown West-1 9:22.13
11 842 Dan Genn 12 Mepham-1 9:22.37
12 721 Lee Berube 11 Ticonderoga-2 9:22.84
13 1406 Dylan Trotzuk 11 Collegiate-2 9:27.60
14 1407 Peter Vizcarrondo 12 Collegiate-2 9:27.82
15 1344 Timothy Keegan 12 St. Anthony's-1 9:29.15
16 1309 Stephen Childs 12 Chaminade-1 9:30.44
17 337 Chris Stogsdill 10 Marcellus-2 9:31.19
18 435 Drew Hart 12 Ithaca-1 9:31.24
19 514 Jon Pinto 12 Brighton-1 9:31.86
20 910 Brendan Devine 11 Monticello-1 9:32.44
21 322 Alex Hatz 9 Fay.-Manlius-1 9:33.73
22 853 Brian Riley 11 South Side-1 9:34.44
23 656 Tom Reubens 12 Wilson-2 9:34.92
24 609 Andrew Pfeiffer 12 Clarence-1 9:36.38
25 107 Adam Doherty 10 Arlington-1 9:37.54
26 244 Ethan Clary 11 Schuylerville-2 9:47.51
27 1233 Joseph Brancale 10 McKee-SI Tech-1 9:52.81
28 417 Colin Eustis 12 Delhi-2 9:53.40
29 570 Pat Breen 11 Palmyra-Macedon2 10:01.43
30 1102 Ryan Boyd 11 Bayport-Bluept-2 10:02.32
31 1017 Jon Eng 9 Norwood-Norfolk2 10:13.94
32 840 Joe Nassirian 9 Manhasset-2 10:29.94

[RFXCrunner]

I don't think Gruenewald can be beat, even if he isn't fresh.

[yesaKCurro]

the 3200 is friday night and 1600 is on saturday so he will be fresh and unbeatable, if murdock we're healthy different story but i think tommy g has got this one like last year, now how fast can he go?

[themanontherun]

Look for Murdock early. If he's gotten healthier I say he can take the race. If he's not, I can still see him medalling, but not winning. Watch for a big race from Corey Robinson, he always comes on strong late season.

[BrandNewHero106]

Gruenewald in 8:57 (although he may be conserving himself for the 1600 on Sat.)
Borenstein always runs big when it counts, I could see him around 9:06-7. Robinson, Predmore, and Prial can all definitely be under 9:10, along with Murdock if he's healthy. I'm saying Robinson at 9:09-10 with Prial, Predmore, and Murdock a few seconds back. Merber and Kasak are also definitely capable of approaching 9:10. This should be one hell of a race.

[ilovewalking]

i think murdock is going to lead the whole race and hopefully he will put tommy g where he needs to be for the first mile

i think tommy g will win it in 902-903
then borenstein in 908-909
then murdock in 911

[nyrunner09]

i say that gruenwald goes sub 9, maybe 857?.
then borenstein in second with a 9:06 or better

[run_nyc]

Teh Stogz Ftmfw 8:35!!

[cnsxcore]

Teh Stogz Ftmfw 8:35!!

qfe.










l0l.

[MikeGamms]

i really cant see anyone besides tg or murdock winning this one.

[Burned_in_Style]

i really cant see anyone besides tg or murdock winning this one.

it is going to be tommy g coming out on top. if murdock didnt get hurt then we would have a whole different story.

[tkdrunner]

Murdock or TG; I have a feeling this may be an amazing race, even if Murdock was injured earlier in the season.

[Intrested Observer]

This is not to put pressure on "Da Kid from Da Hills" but, no one is even mentioning Kyle Merber from Section XI as a possible contender for this coveted crown. Six weeks ago he worked an 8:37.62 3K at Penn Relays. In my book that converts to about an 9:12.0, give or take a few tenths. Since then he has shown remarkable improvement in his mile and 1600 times, winning the St. Anthony's mile and his state qualifier along the way. I'm saying that he will have improved more than 1 second per week since Penn and will surprise a lot of people. I'm a very old Section XI guy and my $ is on that skinny kid with the big heart! Go Colts!

Just one person's observations.:cool:

[hubbalord]

Robinson and Murdock are both going to Syracuse right? Sick! Some good training partners.

[goucher is da man]

Borenstein for the Mother effin Jewish win

Su already has Busby, Kolsesus, and Brad Miller. Not to mention Kyle Heath

[Dr. Kenneth Noisewater]

TG takes it, but Murdock runs a smart race and finishes a strong second. oh wait i forgot....








TEH STOGZ!

[rnn1ngf00l]

I think whatever happens, a kid from Shen will be in the Top 2.
Nobody has mentioned Predmore, but he's a very good racer, along with talent and consistency you have to at least have him in the mix through 2400m.

[BigRed]

Murdock is the most talented runner in the field. That being said, I don't think he's got the conditioning to go much sub 9:10. He crushed Gruenewald at XC States when TG tried to take him out hard... but I'd be really surprised if he's in shape to do that tomorrow.

We're talking 3200. What are their PR's? Has Murdock come close to subbing 9? TG buries the field. He needs go low to assure the fast heat @ NON. In 90 degree heat no one else breaks 9:10. Another FM distance state title.

[BrandNewHero106]

We're talking 3200. What are their PR's? Has Murdock come close to subbing 9? TG buries the field. He needs go low to assure the fast heat @ NON. In 90 degree heat no one else breaks 9:10. Another FM distance state title.


Didn't Murdock run 9:07y indoors? That's around 9:04ish 3200 which isn't too bad. Then again, he hasn't touched that thus far outdoors, but at the very least it shows that he's definitely capable of getting close to 9 if he's in top shape.
Also, if the meet runs to schedule, the fast heat of boys 3200 will probably be run sometime after 7pm. It'll still be damn hot, but it'll probably be closer to 80.
Also a 30% chance of isolated thunderstorms at 7pm according to weather.com.... deja vu anyone? (yea I know there wasn't any lightning or anything last year, but still)

[Achilles]

Murdock is the most talented runner in the field. That being said, I don't think he's got the conditioning to go much sub 9:10. He crushed Gruenewald at XC States when TG tried to take him out hard... but I'd be really surprised if he's in shape to do that tomorrow.

Gruenwald has faster PR's than Murdock at pretty much every single distance besides the indoor 5k and beat him numerous times in cross.

How is murdock the most talented? Murdock is VERY VERY good and his string of races without fault in XC was truly all time but Gruenwald is a sub 9 guy, already run 4:11 winning huge, etc etc.

I think murdock gets an awful lot of credit for the way he runs his races, he gets added praise because people like his guts. Like i said, awesome runner but i dont understand why he is a clear cut most talented runner when Gruenwald has every single distance with a faster PR than him.

[Achilles]

This is not to put pressure on "Da Kid from Da Hills" but, no one is even mentioning Kyle Merber from Section XI as a possible contender for this coveted crown. Six weeks ago he worked an 8:37.62 3K at Penn Relays. In my book that converts to about an 9:12.0, give or take a few tenths. Since then he has shown remarkable improvement in his mile and 1600 times, winning the St. Anthony's mile and his state qualifier along the way. I'm saying that he will have improved more than 1 second per week since Penn and will surprise a lot of people. I'm a very old Section XI guy and my $ is on that skinny kid with the big heart! Go Colts!

Just one person's observations.:cool:

Merber should run well, real talented kid, but 8:37.62 converts to 9:12.0????? Do you read what you write. So you are going to add a 34.38 second 200 meters to a kid who hasnt run at that pace for the average of the race AFTER he goes all out for 3000 meters...8:37 converts to no faster than 9:15 mid using any type of conversions (except yours). You assumed Merber (or anyone, not just him) who has already run all out will run another half lap at 68.7 pace (when the rest of his race was 69), just doesnt make sense. 8:45.0 is 70 seconds per lap exactly so he is running almost exactly 69 second pace the entire time.

[king99]

8:37.x converts to 9:17.x yards on the generally accepted converson of +40 at that level, I know you can do the formula math.

So? 9:14.x for 3200?

[Achilles]

8:37.x converts to 9:17.x yards on the generally accepted converson of +40 at that level, I know you can do the formula math.

So? 9:14.x for 3200?

I have seen many use the 40 seconds, i dont love it but its still not 9:12 flat or anywhere close. 9:14.5 it is

[2minutemile]

I have seen many use the 40 seconds, i dont love it but its still not 9:12 flat or anywhere close. 9:14.5 it is

what? 9:14.5 isn't anywhere close to 9:12? Did I misread that?

[king99]

No, Achilles is right a 9;14.5 converted to, is a whole PR and 2 hard seconds away from 9:12

[BigRed]

I think whatever happens, a kid from Shen will be in the Top 2.
Nobody has mentioned Predmore, but he's a very good racer, along with talent and consistency you have to at least have him in the mix through 2400m.

He is very talented, but if he tries to stay with TG's pace for 2400, he might not medal. Same goes for Murdock. i think the heat is going to take out some very good runners.

[BrandNewHero106]

He is very talented, but if he tries to stay with TG's pace for 2400, he might not medal. Same goes for Murdock. i think the heat is going to take out some very good runners.

If TG is indeed going for a fast time to get in the fast heat at NON (I forget who said that but it makes sense), it means he'll probably be going out in like 4:25 or so like last year. That, combined with the heat, means that anyone who tries to stick with him early on could get screwed over. Last year TG had gapped the field by 50 or so meters by the first mile, and while it probably won't be as extreme this year, I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar.

[SEAURCHIN]

If TG is indeed going for a fast time to get in the fast heat at NON (I forget who said that but it makes sense), it means he'll probably be going out in like 4:25 or so like last year. That, combined with the heat, means that anyone who tries to stick with him early on could get screwed over. Last year TG had gapped the field by 50 or so meters by the first mile, and while it probably won't be as extreme this year, I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar.

TG is getting ready to put the pedal to the metal! I don't think that many of the runners in the 3200 will be able to keep pace with him due to the scorching humidity.

[bigbadbob]

TG wins it!

[TMG]

Event 556 Boys 3200 Meter Run Championship
================================================== =====================
Name Year School Finals Points
================================================== =====================
1 Tommy Gruenewald 12 Fay.-Manlius-1 9:03.09
2 Zach Borenstein 12 Edgemont-2 9:12.16
3 Zach Predmore 12 Shenedehowa-1 9:12.61
4 Lee Berube 11 Ticonderoga-2 9:15.52
5 Terence Prial 12 Warwick Valley-1 9:19.79
6 Steve Murdock 12 Shenedehowa-1 9:21.74
7 Max Kasak 12 Byram Hills-2 9:22.35
8 Dylan Trotzuk 11 Collegiate-2 9:22.49
9 Cory Reed 12 James O'Neill-2 9:24.87
10 Dan Genn 12 Mepham-1 9:25.02
11 Giovanni Signoretti 11 Smithtown West-1 9:27.31
12 Chris Stogsdill 10 Marcellus-2 9:29.56
13 Peter Vizcarrondo 12 Collegiate-2 9:31.46
14 Tom Reubens 12 Wilson-2 9:32.16
15 Brendan Devine 11 Monticello-1 9:33.81
16 Corey Robinson 12 Greece Athena-1 9:35.69
17 Stephen Childs 12 Chaminade-1 9:37.33
18 Brian Riley 11 South Side-1 9:38.37
19 Jon Pinto 12 Brighton-1 9:42.61
20 Kyle Merber 11 HHH West-1 9:44.53
21 Drew Hart 12 Ithaca-1 9:47.91
22 Colin Eustis 12 Delhi-2 9:51.99
23 Timothy Keegan 12 St. Anthony's-1 9:52.16
24 Adam Doherty 10 Arlington-1 9:52.51
25 Ethan Clary 11 Schuylerville-2 9:54.36
26 Alex Hatz 9 Fay.-Manlius-1 10:05.48
27 Pat Breen 11 Palmyra-Macedon-2 10:06.08
28 Joseph Brancale 10 McKee-SI Tech-1 10:06.94
29 Ryan Boyd 11 Bayport-Bluepoint-2 10:07.86
30 Jon Eng 9 Norwood-Norfolk-2 10:10.74
31 Andrew Pfeiffer 12 Clarence-1 10:13.16
32 Joe Nassirian 9 Manhasset-2 11:01.66

[Hector The Inspector]

Event 556 Boys 3200 Meter Run Championship
================================================== =====================
Name Year School Finals Points
================================================== =====================
1 Tommy Gruenewald 12 Fay.-Manlius-1 9:03.09
2 Zach Borenstein 12 Edgemont-2 9:12.16
3 Zach Predmore 12 Shenedehowa-1 9:12.61
4 Lee Berube 11 Ticonderoga-2 9:15.52
5 Terence Prial 12 Warwick Valley-1 9:19.79
6 Steve Murdock 12 Shenedehowa-1 9:21.74
7 Max Kasak 12 Byram Hills-2 9:22.35
8 Dylan Trotzuk 11 Collegiate-2 9:22.49
9 Cory Reed 12 James O'Neill-2 9:24.87
10 Dan Genn 12 Mepham-1 9:25.02
11 Giovanni Signoretti 11 Smithtown West-1 9:27.31
12 Chris Stogsdill 10 Marcellus-2 9:29.56
13 Peter Vizcarrondo 12 Collegiate-2 9:31.46
14 Tom Reubens 12 Wilson-2 9:32.16
15 Brendan Devine 11 Monticello-1 9:33.81
16 Corey Robinson 12 Greece Athena-1 9:35.69
17 Stephen Childs 12 Chaminade-1 9:37.33
18 Brian Riley 11 South Side-1 9:38.37
19 Jon Pinto 12 Brighton-1 9:42.61
20 Kyle Merber 11 HHH West-1 9:44.53
21 Drew Hart 12 Ithaca-1 9:47.91
22 Colin Eustis 12 Delhi-2 9:51.99
23 Timothy Keegan 12 St. Anthony's-1 9:52.16
24 Adam Doherty 10 Arlington-1 9:52.51
25 Ethan Clary 11 Schuylerville-2 9:54.36
26 Alex Hatz 9 Fay.-Manlius-1 10:05.48
27 Pat Breen 11 Palmyra-Macedon-2 10:06.08
28 Joseph Brancale 10 McKee-SI Tech-1 10:06.94
29 Ryan Boyd 11 Bayport-Bluepoint-2 10:07.86
30 Jon Eng 9 Norwood-Norfolk-2 10:10.74
31 Andrew Pfeiffer 12 Clarence-1 10:13.16
32 Joe Nassirian 9 Manhasset-2 11:01.66
Anyone know what happened to Merber? Was he going all out or did he decide to ease up at some point during the race in order to save for the 1600m tomorrow?

[rnn1ngf00l]

Yea Predmore!
I'm glad I gave him my prediction earlier! Haha.

Does anyone have race recaps other than TGs lead splits?

[Kaiser2006]

TG barreled out from the start like last year...63 first 400, i believe murdock led the chase pack first 2-3 laps. TG continues to open on the pack and at the mile he is 4:27-8 and about 50 meters ahead of the pack. At 3 laps to go, Tommy is slowing down substantially, Borenstein surges away from everyone and starts closing on TG. at the gun TG has about a 35-40 meter lead on Borenstein which he increased on the last lap. Predmore makes a big move on the backstretch and almost nips Borenstein at the line.

[Achilles]

Um, Gruenewald has beaten him 3 times in cross, and lost to him 7 or 8 times (calling the FLNE race this year a draw). Which means he's beaten him in exactly one XC race that Murdock didn't fall down in.

Murdock is first team all-american in XC. Case closed.

Um, this is track...i am still not wrong in saying he has no PR's faster than Murdock. He has faster times at Vanny for some reason you are calling one of Gruenwalds wins a wash, he beat him at Feds...

7 or 8 times? have they ever even raced 12 times? Gruenwald has lost to him this year at states, at footlocker, at feds and states, states 10th grade last year which Tommy clearly wasnt peaking for based off how close he was to Bolas and Klotz at NTN last year

Tommy has beaten him at feds this year, regionals this year, feds in 10th grade. 10th grade is when they both became very good.

I count 5-3 Murdock wins. Cant get much closer than that, if Tommy beats him in one more race than its 4-4. They have only raced 8 times, how has murdock won 8 of them?

And not to mention...this is TRACK, Gruenwalds PR is over 5 seconds faster than Murdocks and it was from last year

Murdock also beat him at states in indoor in 10th grade but then hasnt run another state meet in his event until now.

How can anyone call Murdock the favorite off that? Every event from 800-3200/2mile on the track Gruenwald has a faster PR.

[10mexicans]

Murdock was sick at Feds
He coasted the whole race,
N just kicked

[PrideXcTF1]

Um, this is track...i am still not wrong in saying he has no PR's faster than Murdock. He has faster times at Vanny for some reason you are calling one of Gruenwalds wins a wash, he beat him at Feds...

7 or 8 times? have they ever even raced 12 times? Gruenwald has lost to him this year at states, at footlocker, at feds and states, states 10th grade last year which Tommy clearly wasnt peaking for based off how close he was to Bolas and Klotz at NTN last year

Tommy has beaten him at feds this year, regionals this year, feds in 10th grade. 10th grade is when they both became very good.

I count 5-3 Murdock wins. Cant get much closer than that, if Tommy beats him in one more race than its 4-4. They have only raced 8 times, how has murdock won 8 of them?

And not to mention...this is TRACK, Gruenwalds PR is over 5 seconds faster than Murdocks and it was from last year

Murdock also beat him at states in indoor in 10th grade but then hasnt run another state meet in his event until now.

How can anyone call Murdock the favorite off that? Every event from 800-3200/2mile on the track Gruenwald has a faster PR.



PWNED?! :eek:

[Achilles]

Murdock was sick at Feds
He coasted the whole race,
N just kicked

He got outkicked by BRD and I have heard he was sick at feds and do believe that, no gaurentee he beats TG on that day though, TG was within a second of the course record. Would have been closer probably.

Sometimes i think it helps Murdock a lot when he starts slow, he is so strong he can run that 2nd half of the race real well when he isnt completly dead after going out in 4:35.

[Machine]

Anyone know what happened to Merber? Was he going all out or did he decide to ease up at some point during the race in order to save for the 1600m tomorrow?


Merber called after his race. I forgot exactly what he said however he said the one factor that got to him was the heat. But also I think he said his legs just felt tired before the race and it was just a bad race. He's taking it strong though and staying fresh (mentally) for tomorrow's 1600. Good luck to him on that.

[Achilles]

Anyone know what happened to Merber? Was he going all out or did he decide to ease up at some point during the race in order to save for the 1600m tomorrow?

From Merber himself: He was feeling okay in his legs just didnt have much energy because he didnt have very much food throughout the day. After the first lap he felt very tired and not like himself. He said after the 5th lap or so when he realized he just wasnt going to be able to push through it he slowed and saved a bit for tomorrow. He is very optimistic about tomorrow and expects to be up in the race and hopes to medal. He said it was pretty hot during the race and he was also out in the sun all day. Tomorrow its all shade and some good food for him and he will bounce back.

[themanontherun]

Um, this is track...i am still not wrong in saying he has no PR's faster than Murdock. He has faster times at Vanny for some reason you are calling one of Gruenwalds wins a wash, he beat him at Feds...

7 or 8 times? have they ever even raced 12 times? Gruenwald has lost to him this year at states, at footlocker, at feds and states, states 10th grade last year which Tommy clearly wasnt peaking for based off how close he was to Bolas and Klotz at NTN last year

Tommy has beaten him at feds this year, regionals this year, feds in 10th grade. 10th grade is when they both became very good.

I count 5-3 Murdock wins. Cant get much closer than that, if Tommy beats him in one more race than its 4-4. They have only raced 8 times, how has murdock won 8 of them?

And not to mention...this is TRACK, Gruenwalds PR is over 5 seconds faster than Murdocks and it was from last year

Murdock also beat him at states in indoor in 10th grade but then hasnt run another state meet in his event until now.

How can anyone call Murdock the favorite off that? Every event from 800-3200/2mile on the track Gruenwald has a faster PR.

No one was saying he was the favorite, just that he was more talented. And I would say that since Murdock has that head to head record against him, and is that close in terms of PRs, with much less consistent of training. TG's training has been (seemingly) uninterupted and consistent, not to mention we don't know anything about the volume and intensity of training which has lead each athlete to where they are today. From all outward appearances, it seems to be that TG was the obvious favorite today, but it would not be a stretch (or even indefensible for that matter) to say that he is more talented. I mean, the kid ran 9:11 and was national runner-up as a sophomore. That, to me, just reeks of talent.

[Achilles]

No one was saying he was the favorite, just that he was more talented. And I would say that since Murdock has that head to head record against him, and is that close in terms of PRs, with much less consistent of training. TG's training has been (seemingly) uninterupted and consistent, not to mention we don't know anything about the volume and intensity of training which has lead each athlete to where they are today. From all outward appearances, it seems to be that TG was the obvious favorite today, but it would not be a stretch (or even indefensible for that matter) to say that he is more talented. I mean, the kid ran 9:11 and was national runner-up as a sophomore. That, to me, just reeks of talent.

Of course they are both hugely talented but i just dont understand why Murdock was the clear cut more talented person than TG. TG has more speed, is more accomplished in track, and has won more titles than Murdock. Doesnt seem fair to put Murdock ahead of him in my opinion. But thats all it is an opinion.

[HINKLO]

Of course they are both hugely talented but i just dont understand why Murdock was the clear cut more talented person than TG. TG has more speed, is more accomplished in track, and has won more titles than Murdock. Doesnt seem fair to put Murdock ahead of him in my opinion. But thats all it is an opinion.

Murdock consistently gets hurt and comes back to run baller times. I'd like to throw it out there that had Murdock and TG had equally consistent training, I'd give Murdock the edge. However, with that said, one of the aspects of running (probably the most important aspect) is the ability to train at a high level without getting hurt. Talent will only get you so far if you can't train for extended periods of time uninterrupted.

With that said, I am fans of both runners and both have been highly entertaining to follow since I really started getting into the outside world of running. Best of luck to both in college.

[Achilles]

Murdock has 3 podium finishes in National-level events (1st NSIC 5K, 2nd NIN 2-Mile, 3rd FLNats). That gives him a clear edge over Gruenewald, who to my knowledge doesn't have any.

Gruenwald was the to his teams relays at the national meets. Now you are right, he doesnt have a podium finish for that but this year indoors he didnt compete and XC his best accomplishment is probably the 4th as a Junior and 9th? as a sophomore at NTN which Murdock won but...he anchored the 4xmile last outdoor, and the dmr which got 1st and 2nd in REAL REAL fast times, almost a NYS record in the DMR and i think they did get a NYS record in the 4xmile.

Im pretty sure they won the 4xmile at NIN with a real fast time too.

Gruenwald doesnt quite have the XC line that Murdock has because of Murdocks all time 7 week stretch of races.

I dont like the woulda coulda's either but Murdock got 2nd in one of if not the weakest 2 mile fields in the last 10 years at NIN. 9:11 was the winner and like 9:19 got All American i think. The NSIC 5k, although he ran real fast, is not really a big time event.

Murdock is super talented, and im not even saying he is less talented than TG, but to say Murdock is a clear favorite over him just doesnt make sense to me. He has run faster at their main event, the 3200 like 4 times now maybe and real close to it a few other times and the rest of his times are also faster than Murdocks. TG also now has the 2.5 record at Van Cortland in a race he won by a real lot from the front.

Things like "Murdock was All American in XC, case closed" i dont think are as clear cut as people make them out to be. I think BRD, TG, and Murdock are basically equal in talent and all have their strengths and weaknesses.

[Doperssuck42]

Murdock has 3 podium finishes in National-level events (1st NSIC 5K, 2nd NIN 2-Mile, 3rd FLNats). That gives him a clear edge over Gruenewald, who to my knowledge doesn't have any.

+1st NTN

[The X-Factor]

I think there both as even as it gets overall. But the injury argument is BS. Thats part of running and training, you have to train at a level that allows you to run fast and not get hurt at the same time. This year was Murdock's best XC by far, but honestly I think last year indoor was when he was in the best track shape ever. TG on the other hand has showed a more linear improvement and just improves from season to season.

[PeterQuince]

If you want to open up the discussion of which of these boys is more "talented," you need to remember that Ryan Sheridan had the second fastest time at Bowdoin before this past fall, and he earned that mark as a sophomore. Murdock, Rhodes-Devey, and Gruenewald all ran phenomenally as sophomores, but Sheridan destroyed the field at Feds and nicely handled Martinez, who went on to run sub-9:10 in the steeplechase.

Part of the entire package of talent, however, is durability and consistency.

Of the class of 2007, I have to give that mark to Gruenewald.

Brian Rhodes-Devey showed the earliest talent in grade eight and probably has the best high-end speed and most legitimately wide range of anyone in this class. No one else in this year is as consistently rated over the 800-1600-3200-5K as he is, and Warwick seems to be the only school that trains its runners to try (Mark, LaRoe).

Steve Murdock has guts to spare and is perhaps least fearful of pushing a race until the kickers fade away. While Gruenewald holds the record at Van Cortlandt Park, cross-country really is Murdock's home, it seems, and he has enjoyed unbelievable cross-country successes.

Gruenewald, however, appears--to me--to be the most consistent and the most durable runner of the bunch.

Best of luck to all of these boys in the future.

[The X-Factor]

If you want to open up the discussion of which of these boys is more "talented," you need to remember that Ryan Sheridan had the second fastest time at Bowdoin before this past fall, and he earned that mark as a sophomore. Murdock, Rhodes-Devey, and Gruenewald all ran phenomenally as sophomores, but Sheridan destroyed the field at Feds and nicely handled Martinez, who went on to run sub-9:10 in the steeplechase.

Part of the entire package of talent, however, is durability and consistency.

Of the class of 2007, I have to give that mark to Gruenewald.

Brian Rhodes-Devey showed the earliest talent in grade eight and probably has the best high-end speed and most legitimately wide range of anyone in this class. No one else in this year is as consistently rated over the 800-1600-3200-5K as he is, and Warwick seems to be the only school that trains its runners to try (Mark, LaRoe).

Steve Murdock has guts to spare and is perhaps least fearful of pushing a race until the kickers fade away. While Gruenewald holds the record at Van Cortlandt Park, cross-country really is Murdock's home, it seems, and he has enjoyed unbelievable cross-country successes.

Gruenewald, however, appears--to me--to be the most consistent and the most durable runner of the bunch.

Best of luck to all of these boys in the future.

Agreed. Sheridan hands down most talent of that class. BRD most range. TG most consistent. Murdock a front-running force that is more suited for XC.

[Intrested Observer]

Merber should run well, real talented kid, but 8:37.62 converts to 9:12.0????? Do you read what you write. So you are going to add a 34.38 second 200 meters to a kid who hasnt run at that pace for the average of the race AFTER he goes all out for 3000 meters...8:37 converts to no faster than 9:15 mid using any type of conversions (except yours). You assumed Merber (or anyone, not just him) who has already run all out will run another half lap at 68.7 pace (when the rest of his race was 69), just doesnt make sense. 8:45.0 is 70 seconds per lap exactly so he is running almost exactly 69 second pace the entire time.


Easy there Achilles! Please note that my signature closing, namely "Just one person's observations.:cool:" is meant to convey to the reader that the foregoing is just my opinion! Nothing more! That being said, let me explain to you how I came about this opinion.

Let's say that Alberto Salazar runs 3200 meters in 9:12.14. What kind of 3K time (X in the equation below) does that 9:12.14 3200 predict? My opinion is to set up a proportion involving the 2 distances and the given time for 3200 meters as follows:

3000 meters/3200 meters = X/9:12.14; now convert 9:12.14 to seconds and we get 552.14 seconds; solving for X we get X = (552.14 seconds)x(3000 meters/3200 meters) or X = (552.14 seconds)x(0.9375) = 517.62 seconds, which happens to be 8:37.62. Some people (but not I) will argue that you should run 2 or maybe 3 seconds faster for 3K than the proportion predicts because the race is shorter. My opinion is that the differences in the average pace for each race (5.79563 meters/second for 3200 meters and 5.79575 meters/second for 3K) is so small (0.00012 meters/second) as to be negligible*. Further, if we take this difference in average pace and convert it into millimeters/second, we get 0.12 millimeters/second. Now multiply this difference by the time it took Alberto to cover the 3200 meters, namely 9:12.14 or 552.14 seconds, and we get (552.14 seconds)x(0.12 millimeters/second) = 66.26 millimeters, or about 2 and 5/8ths inches. To me, that is about the difference you would get when you equate the 2 distances and the times for these distances using the proportion listed above.

It is interesting to note that if you set up the proportion in reverse and try to compare them, you get 3200 meters/3000 meters = X/8:37.62, or (1.0666)x
(8:37.62) = (1.0666)x(517.62 seconds) = 552.13 seconds, or 9:12.13.

To be sure, there are a multiplicity of factors that go into making a 3K race very different from any other 3K race; my opinion is that there are even more factors involved in making a 3K race very different from a 3200 meter race. Intrinsicly, we all understand that what we're trying to do here is very inexact process. Nonetheless, we try and in the end we should try to remember that they are all, after all is said and done, just opinions.

Alas, poor Kyle and numerous others subcuumed to the heat and humidity of yesterday, making all of our comments and exhortations seem like meer trivialities.

Just one person's observations.:cool:

*-Using the formula of D = RxT, where D = distance in meters, R = rate in meters/second and T = time in seconds, we derive the formula for rate to be R = D/T.

[SEAURCHIN]

Easy there Achilles! Please note that my signature closing, namely "Just one person's observations.:cool:" is meant to convey to the reader that the foregoing is just my opinion! Nothing more! That being said, let me explain to you how I came about this opinion.

Let's say that Alberto Salazar runs 3200 meters in 9:12.14. What kind of 3K time (X in the equation below) does that 9:12.14 3200 predict? My opinion is to set up a proportion involving the 2 distances and the given time for 3200 meters as follows:

3000 meters/3200 meters = X/9:12.14; now convert 9:12.14 to seconds and we get 552.14 seconds; solving for X we get X = (552.14 seconds)x(3000 meters/3200 meters) or X = (552.14 seconds)x(0.9375) = 517.62 seconds, which happens to be 8:37.62. Some people (but not I) will argue that you should run 2 or maybe 3 seconds faster for 3K than the proportion predicts because the race is shorter. My opinion is that the differences in the average pace for each race (5.79563 meters/second for 3200 meters and 5.79575 meters/second for 3K) is so small (0.00012 meters/second) as to be negligible*. Further, if we take this difference in average pace and convert it into millimeters/second, we get 0.12 millimeters/second. Now multiply this difference by the time it took Alberto to cover the 3200 meters, namely 9:12.14 or 552.14 seconds, and we get (552.14 seconds)x(0.12 millimeters/second) = 66.26 millimeters, or about 2 and 5/8ths inches. To me, that is about the difference you would get when you equate the 2 distances and the times for these distances using the proportion listed above.

It is interesting to note that if you set up the proportion in reverse and try to compare them, you get 3200 meters/3000 meters = X/8:37.62, or (1.0666)x
(8:37.62) = (1.0666)x(517.62 seconds) = 552.13 seconds, or 9:12.13.

To be sure, there are a multiplicity of factors that go into making a 3K race very different from any other 3K race; my opinion is that there are even more factors involved in making a 3K race very different from a 3200 meter race. Intrinsicly, we all understand that what we're trying to do here is very inexact process. Nonetheless, we try and in the end we should try to remember that they are all, after all is said and done, just opinions.

Alas, poor Kyle and numerous others subcuumed to the heat and humidity of yesterday, making all of our comments and exhortations seem like meer trivialities.

Just one person's observations.:cool:

*-Using the formula of D = RxT, where D = distance in meters, R = rate in meters/second and T = time in seconds, we derive the formula for rate to be R = D/T.

Now how can you argue with that logic? Albert Einstein has nothing on Intrested Observer!