NJ Bans Death Penalty

[Kalaby]

TRENTON, N.J. - Gov. Jon S. Corzine signed into law Monday a measure that abolishes the death penalty, making New Jersey the first state in more than four decades to reject capital punishment.

The bill, approved last week by the state's Assembly and Senate, replaces the death sentence with life in prison without parole.

"This is a day of progress for us and for the millions of people across our nation and around the globe who reject the death penalty as a moral or practical response to the grievous, even heinous, crime of murder," Corzine said.

The measure spares eight men on the state's death row. On Sunday, Corzine signed orders commuting the sentences of those eight to life in prison without parole.

Among the eight spared is Jesse Timmendequas, a sex offender who murdered 7-year-old Megan Kanka in 1994. The case inspired Megan's Law, which requires law enforcement agencies to notify the public about convicted sex offenders living in their communities.

New Jersey reinstated the death penalty in 1982 — six years after the U.S. Supreme Court allowed states to resume executions — but it hasn't executed anyone since 1963.

The state's move is being hailed across the world as a historic victory against capital punishment. Rome plans to shine golden light on the Colosseum in support. Once the arena for deadly gladiator combat and executions, the Colosseum is now a symbol of the fight against the death penalty.

"The rest of America, and for that matter the entire world, is watching what we are doing here today," said Assemblyman Wilfredo Caraballo, a Democrat. "New Jersey is setting a precedent that I'm confident other states will follow."

The bill passed the Legislature largely along party lines, with controlling Democrats supporting the abolition and minority Republicans opposed. Republicans had sought to retain the death penalty for those who murder law enforcement officials, rape and murder children, and terrorists, but Democrats rejected that.

"It's simply a specious argument to say that, somehow, after six millennia of recorded history, the punishment no longer fits the crime," said Assemblyman Joseph Malone, a Republican.

Members of victims' families fought against the law.

"I will never forget how I've been abused by a state and a governor that was supposed to protect the innocent and enforce the laws," said Marilyn Flax, whose husband Irving was abducted and murdered in 1989 by death row inmate John Martini Sr.

Richard Kanka, Megan's father, noted Corzine signed the bill exactly 15 years to day that death row inmate Ambrose Harris kidnapped, raped and murdered 22-year-old artist Kristin Huggins of Lower Makefield, Pa..

"Just another slap in the face to the victims," Kanka said.

The last states to eliminate the death penalty were Iowa and West Virginia in 1965, according to the National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty.

The nation has executed 1,099 people since the U.S. Supreme Court reauthorized the death penalty in 1976. In 1999, 98 people were executed, the most since 1976; last year 53 people were executed, the lowest since 1996.

Other states have considered abolishing the death penalty recently, but none has advanced as far as New Jersey.

The nation's last execution was Sept. 25 in Texas. Since then, executions have been delayed pending a U.S. Supreme Court decision on whether execution through lethal injection violates the constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

[Sebrle]

If raping and killing children ever becomes my fetish, I will make it a priority to move to a state that rewards my pathology with a warm bed, hot meals, free gym, free tv, free medical care, conjugal visits so my jacked up DNA can continue to spread via the crazy chick who delusions to marry and lay down with me (see Ted Bundy), etc, etc...

[gesser]

If raping and killing children ever becomes my fetish, I will make it a priority to move to a state that rewards my pathology with a warm bed, hot meals, free gym, free tv, free medical care, conjugal visits so my jacked up DNA can continue to spread via the crazy chick who delusions to marry and lay down with me (see Ted Bundy), etc, etc...

Yeah, but if you rape and kill a child: Don't forget the part about losing control of your bowels.

Rumor has it that prisoners aren't very kind to child sex offenders.

[Joe Lanzalotto]

Yeah, but if you rape and kill a child: Don't forget the part about losing control of your bowels.

Rumor has it that prisoners aren't very kind to child sex offenders.


Just a rumor. When you get inside, I am told, inmates don't care why you are there. There is no sense of justice - "lets make the child molester pay" - among convicted felons. Or so I am told.

On the other hand, your first statement is probably true across the board for anyone who is weaker and inside, so there may be some justice in the world.

Death sentence is just not the way, IMO.

[Kalaby]

This is probably the one issue that I've moved the most on over the last couple of decades. I was an ardent capital punishment supporter as a younger person. I've softened that stance a great deal over the years and could live comfortably if we completely abolished the death penalty. With that said, the cases mentioned by some, particularly those that involve the sexual assault and murder of an innocent child, wouldn't have me rushing to stop the execution of the guilty party.

[Joe Lanzalotto]

Two drivers for me:


"Vengance is mine sayeth the Lord" or something like that. It the penalty is rehabilitative, I am all for it. If it is to keep the dangerous off the streets and the rest of us safe, I'm all for it, but you don't need to execute to do that. If execution is payback for a heinous crime, I am against it, although my emotions often want to go that way.
Better not to execute someone only to find out later through DNA or other means that you had the wrong person.

[xcrider]

We look at DNA as exonerating some, however we can now also be more certain of the guilty person. I say keep the death penalty. Speed up any appeals, cheapen the process, get it over quicker.

The death penalty should save taxpayers money over life in prison.(Realize it doesn't, but it should)

Also the vengeance belonging to the Lord is in the context of an individual taking revenge, not government sponsored law.

[gesser]

We look at DNA as exonerating some, however we can now also be more certain of the guilty person. I say keep the death penalty. Speed up any appeals, cheapen the process, get it over quicker.

The death penalty should save taxpayers money over life in prison.(Realize it doesn't, but it should)

Also the vengeance belonging to the Lord is in the context of an individual taking revenge, not government sponsored law.

This is exactly why the death penalty isn't worth it, from a financial standpoint. Morally, I oppose it too. However, financially, the process is made costly through the appeal process, which you need because of: a) forced confessions b) forced confessions

Due to shady police practices you need the lengthy appeals process.

[KenA55]

I'm a firm believer that you don't escape personal responsibility through collective consensus decisions, and that we are each as personally culpable for government'/society's choices as we would be if we did the deed with our own hand. The government is our own hand.

The only capital punishment I'm in favor of is a system where the responsibility for the decision and implementation falls directly on the shoulders of those closest to the victim, along with the repercussions for being absolutely wrong when such cases arise.

I absolutely loathe the notion of institutionalizing the matter through a direct government judgment/execution process.

[Sebrle]

gesser - I think we may finally have some common ground, how about this, gather up some of the worst incarcerated sodemites from the Aryan Nation, Cholos, etc and group them in a supermax, then get the terrorist we aren’t allowed to interrogate and make him watch a video (this can even be staged) of what they do to his buddy and inform him if he doesn’t spill the beans he’s next on the menu.

Some people hear the statement “I’d rather let 10,000 criminals go free then convict a single innocent person” and nod their heads. Personally I’m not on board with any scheme that allows 10,000 convicts to walk, especially in an age of DNA evidence, ever evolving digital/chemical lie detector tests, computer keyloggers, and everyone and their mother having a big brother cam built into their cell phone.

You also have to analyze the books of the cost spin, there is a huge economic difference between redistributing tax dollars to a lawyer who in turn redistributes that income throughout the community versus the financial blackhole of paying to guard, heat, sanitate, feed, clothe, medicate, etc the worst of the worst criminally for decades (hmm how can I work global warming into this ;)). Of course these costs never include the harm done to other inmates who might only be there for white collar crimes, prison staff, potential human costs if one of these monsters escape, social costs of the children they father behind bars in states with uber liberal criminal rights. As is I’m more worried about giving people who can barely read street signs licenses than I am the 1 in a billion shot I might be wrongly convicted and sentenced to death.

[gesser]

You also have to analyze the books of the cost spin, there is a huge economic difference between redistributing tax dollars to a lawyer who in turn redistributes that income throughout the community versus the financial blackhole of paying to guard, heat, sanitate, feed, clothe, medicate, etc the worst of the worst criminally for decades (hmm how can I work global warming into this ;)). Of course these costs never include the harm done to other inmates, prison guards, potential human costs of escape, social costs of the children they father behind bars in states with uber liberal criminal rights. As is I’m more worried about giving people who can barely read street signs licenses than I am the 1 in a billion shot I might be wrongly convicted and sentenced to death.

And the taxpayer money spent on the bold isn't distributed back into the economy how? Someone is profiting off of prison food distribution. Aramark, perhaps? (Just a guess.)

[gesser]

Seb, back to this real issue:

You mention DNA and other hi-tech means, but there is no panacea for police detective corruption. I doubt it's widespread, but every once in awhile you hear about a case where evidence was planted or someone was coerced into a confession. To me, there will always be a crooked cop who frames someone, and this poses a legitimate quandary.

[Joe Lanzalotto]

Using financial issues as support for the death penalty is just plain wrong. Support it on moral grounds if you want, but financial? C'mon?

As for the context of the Bible passage, I could care less where it was, it applies HERE IMO. Punishment should be to protect other members of society and/or rehabilitate, not to retaliate.

While I am certainly not in favor of allowing 10,000 potentially guilty people walk, the opposite is not to execute the one. The cure for that is life in prision, no parole. DNA proves you not guilty at a later date, you can still get out.

Sorry, life is too precious. Just me.

[CTsnapple]

If raping and killing children ever becomes my fetish, I will make it a priority to move to a state that rewards my pathology with a warm bed, hot meals, free gym, free tv, free medical care, conjugal visits so my jacked up DNA can continue to spread via the crazy chick who delusions to marry and lay down with me (see Ted Bundy), etc, etc...

This isn't really important, but I'm pretty sure they don't allow them to train with weights or have a weight room anymore. Maybe in minimum security, but not in any place that houses murderers. They usually end up creating makeshift weights using bags of water and whatever else they can use. I'm pretty sure they have to buy special TVs or special equipment to watch TV or something like that too.

Plus, some guys who are already serving life sentences aren't going to care if they murder another guy or two. It's always a potentially violent environment.

[The Dan]

"I will never forget how I've been abused by a state and a governor that was supposed to protect the innocent and enforce the laws," said Marilyn Flax, whose husband Irving was abducted and murdered in 1989 by death row inmate John Martini Sr.

Please, tell me, how does this really change anything.


The guy was on death row for EIGHTEEN YEARS! He has been on death row longer than my younger brother has been alive (he's a high school senior). This woman is lambasting a governor for removing the death penalty when this guy has been in the same time it takes a person to go from birth to being legally considered an adult.

As far as I see it, the governor simply reformed the law so that it now says exactly what it does. There is little difference between life in prison without parole and the death penalty when the death penalty puts you on death row for 20+ years.

[Kalaby]

Please, tell me, how does this really change anything.


The guy was on death row for EIGHTEEN YEARS! He has been on death row longer than my younger brother has been alive (he's a high school senior). This woman is lambasting a governor for removing the death penalty when this guy has been in the same time it takes a person to go from birth to being legally considered an adult.

As far as I see it, the governor simply reformed the law so that it now says exactly what it does. There is little difference between life in prison without parole and the death penalty when the death penalty puts you on death row for 20+ years.


I see your point. Though they had it on the books, NJ wasn't exactly Texas in terms of actually carrying out executions.

As a secondary point, I think what's (thankfully) difficult is for any of us to truly identify with people like the woman speaking about the death of her husband at the hands of the guy that's now been on death row for nearly two decades. Being as truthful as possible, I could very much see myself wanting death for somebody that flat out murdered a family member.

[Sebrle]

This isn't really important, but I'm pretty sure they don't allow them to train with weights or have a weight room anymore. Maybe in minimum security, but not in any place that houses murderers. They usually end up creating makeshift weights using bags of water and whatever else they can use. I'm pretty sure they have to buy special TVs or special equipment to watch TV or something like that too.

Plus, some guys who are already serving life sentences aren't going to care if they murder another guy or two. It's always a potentially violent environment.

Like the death penalty itself the privileges vary state to state, this article gives a good idea how the conditions in “Let the punishment fit the crime” Texas are for ultra-violent offenders (and how nutty Europeans can be).

“In 1995, Mr. Martinez was convicted of stabbing to death a 68-year-old woman and her 4-year-old granddaughter. He sexually assaulted the older woman, defiled the corpse of the child, and reportedly threatened the victims' family as he was led from the courtroom, saying, "It's not over yet."

Ya let's keep this guy around because he might be innocent :rolleyes:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/120907dnmetdeathrowlove.2c3fc16.html

[Kalaby]

Seb - just read that article...wow, those women are royally screwed up in the head.

[gesser]

Like the death penalty itself the privileges vary state to state, this article gives a good idea how the conditions in “Let the punishment fit the crime” Texas are for ultra-violent offenders (and how nutty Europeans can be).

“In 1995, Mr. Martinez was convicted of stabbing to death a 68-year-old woman and her 4-year-old granddaughter. He sexually assaulted the older woman, defiled the corpse of the child, and reportedly threatened the victims' family as he was led from the courtroom, saying, "It's not over yet."

Ya let's keep this guy around because he might be innocent :rolleyes:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/120907dnmetdeathrowlove.2c3fc16.html


SO. HOT.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/12-07/1209divasdeeken.jpg

Is that what it really takes to get women like that?

[Kalaby]

SO. HOT.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/12-07/1209divasdeeken.jpg

Is that what it really takes to get women like that?

Either that or you must have....

Bill Gates' bank account...

or...

John Holmes' "Equipment"

[herr]

Mr. Nelson beat a man with a metal bar and stabbed him to death in 1987. He is married to an English woman who left her husband for Mr. Nelson about six years ago. Like all death row marriages, the ceremony was conducted by proxy.

He said that their relationship isn't physically consummated but that they enjoy "letter sex" and intellectual intimacy.

"Writing is real personal," he said. "You tell each other things you'd never tell God if he asked you."

Relationships that are both close and distant, Mr. Nelson said, are what many women need. There is intensity in a life-and-death romance, and passion and poetry – but little risk.

"You can have a boyfriend out there, so if you want sex, you can go have sex," he said. "But if you want a relationship where you can tell anybody anything, this is it."

In that way, he said, it's difficult to tell the players from the played. Both sides get what they need.





"I think violence is very interesting," she said. "Most normal men are boring, but if you are in a relationship with a violent man, you have something to tell others and ... you are interesting, too."

Ms. Haber said her guests often mortgage their lives to travel thousands of miles to Livingston. Then they spend all day at the prison visiting their pen pals, and all night at her kitchen table writing letters to their convicts.

Once women driven initially by a philosophical opposition to the death penalty meet the condemned men, she said, nurturing instincts often take over.

They say things like, "This man has never known what love means. His parents did not love him and the teacher in the school did not love him," Ms. Haber said. "Nobody loved him his entire life, but I do, and I will show him what love is."

Even though some people see inmate relationships as an oddity, Lene Gabrielsen, a mother of three and a nursing student from Norway, says she knows many stories of long-standing love.

"There are a lot of women out there who start out as pen pals and get married and stay married for years and years and years," said Ms. Gabrielsen, who corresponds with two condemned inmates. "I think that's great. If they're happy, why not, because there's so much hate in the world."

There is no way to track the number of Texas death row inmates who marry each year, or how many wed Europeans, but death penalty opponents estimate the former figure at between 10 and 20.

Hybristophilia is the clinical term for women who are attracted to notorious criminals.

Lon Glenn, a warden for the last 10 of his 30 years working for the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, said women of all nationalities, including guards and other prison staff, often fall for inmates.

"I've seen a thirty-something married registered nurse with two kids leave her husband and kids for a three-time-loser convict doing a life sentence," he said in an e-mail. "I've seen a prison school teacher, caught having sex on her desk with a convict, request to be placed on his visiting list as she's being fired. I've lost count of the number of female 'officers' caught in romantic encounters with convicts, some veterans of many years."

Rick Halperin, a board member of Amnesty International USA, offered no excuses for state employees who have affairs with inmates. But he said it's important to remember that most European women initially are motivated by compassion, not lust.

"I do not believe the majority of these women are thrill-seekers who are hoping to marry death row inmates," said the Southern Methodist University history professor. "I think they write as a way to try to reaffirm the basic humanity of these condemned prisoners."

Europeans, he said, are steeped and educated in human rights.

"It's easy to scoff at these women when you live in this country," he said. "But this is a real difficult thing they're doing, and it's very human."

interesting article!!

[YaRight]

Bring it back. Fry em all and let God sort out the innocent and the Guilty ones. Personaly Id say let's save the money and lets use Vick's dogs to hunt them down and eat em up alive.