Joe Franklin to attempt Sub 4 mile

[TrackCoach]

Joe Franklin will attempt to break 4 minutes at the Golden South Saturday, June 7.

I know every year this topic comes up and I think it was King99 who several years ago established the rule that until a kid runs 4:03x you can't discuss sub 4. I know I'm breaking the rule, especially for a kid whose best mile is 4:10 and has no XC or duce to speak of. I usually don't engage in the sub 4 talk, but this time I am going out on a limb and say this kid might do it.

This kid negative split 1:48; that is hard as heck to do. Unfortunately for a kid who is primarily an 8 guy, he is going to need pacing help. If he can get some rabbits or pacing help...I have a funny feeling about this attempt.

[HINKLO]

He has the potential to do it I'd agree, but I don't think the experience is there -- pacing or not.

[skeefe]

If he does it I will eat my own head.

[ZackCampbell]

Best of luck to him. It would be awesome to see that happen.

That said, I'm going out on a limb and saying he won't.

[inyoface]

I wish him the best of luck. This could be epic.

[Jack McPhereson]

I'd like to see him do it as well. Slightly off topic but does he run cross country?

[HINKLO]

According to the original post "has no XC or deuce to speak of."

[jacksparrow34313]

A 1:48 guy who is primarily a miler should definitely be able to run under 4 minutes, but we don't really have enough marks on this guy for me to say with any confidence whether he should have a chance of doing it or not. 1:48 negative splitting is very very impressive for a high schooler, but I have no idea how that is going to translate to the mile.

If he does it I will eat my own head.
That's my line! :mad:

[Jack McPhereson]

According to the original post "has no XC or deuce to speak of."

Ah this is upsetting. Joe Franklin isn't as wide known in many circles as someone like Fout or Fernandez who are studs on the xc course and in track.

[westxc]

I'd like to see him do it as well. Slightly off topic but does he run cross country?

he does, and he's fairly decent (15:30ish, maybe a bit better). Also ran a 9:15 or so early this outdoor season

[Bocho6]

he does, and he's fairly decent (15:30ish, maybe a bit better). Also ran a 9:15 or so early this outdoor season


qft

[Ecliptica]

Believe it or not, this is the first guy I've really had confidence in to go sub-4:00 since Kiptoo failed me a few years back. The other guys who have attempted it in the last four years haven't had anywhere near the footspeed of this kid and I think, for a high-schooler, that is of immense importance.

AJ, Centrowitz, Forys, and Rupp would have surprised me if they dropped sub-4:00 in their attempted races. Franklin would not.

EDIT: I've never bought into this sub-4:00 hype before, and I almost always predict 4:03.xx when they attempt it (looking at my old posts). I don't know why I believe in this kid, but I'm hoping for the best for him.

[miler12]

If he does it I will eat my own head.

going to quote this just in case lol.

[Achilles]

Since he is definitely more speed oriented, if he goes out too fast he is going to have a real real tough time.

If I were him I would try to be out no faster than 3:01 high and try and run 58.0 coming in. Out in 2:58 will really make him hurt that last 440y. Not that it doesnt to anyone else but he should use his speed to his advantage as best as he can.

[wjdistance09]

This is like the same case as Centro last year except backwards- Franklin is speed oriented Centro is strength oriented. Plus like the poster before me said it'll be very easy to go too fast and he won't have the strength to hang on if he goes out in say 2:59. I say 4:04 for Franklin

[skeefe]

Not that I am not rooting for him because that is definitely the case but to me this just seems like it has Sam Borchers written all over it. I know he may not have quite as much speed as Franklin but he was putting down sub 1:50 splits last year and had previously ran 3:45x which is way better than anything Franklin has done so far at 1500/mile distances and he "only" managed 4:03. So with that said I am predicting something along the lines of 4:04 to 4:07 which is still a great time.

[Ecliptica]

So with that said I am predicting something along the lines of 4:04 to 4:07 which is still a great time.

The only reason why I would think it'd be in the 4:04 to 4:07 range is because he wants the rabbit going out in 2:00, which may put him anywhere from 2:00-2:03 through 800. This is where I don't think he has the STRENGTH everyone is talking about to negative split and come in under 4:00.

He really needs to utilize that speed and go out around 1:58-1:59 - have the rabbit come through in 1:56. If that's the case, I think he may well go under 4:00.

[ONACC24]

he is going to have to run a bit under 4 and prolly get out slightly faster than 2:00 because it isnt even a full mile it is a 1600

[ZackCampbell]

he is going to have to run a bit under 4 and prolly get out slightly faster than 2:00 because it isnt even a full mile it is a 1600

LOL

[Derrick08]

The only reason why I would think it'd be in the 4:04 to 4:07 range is because he wants the rabbit going out in 2:00, which may put him anywhere from 2:00-2:03 through 800. This is where I don't think he has the STRENGTH everyone is talking about to negative split and come in under 4:00.

He really needs to utilize that speed and go out around 1:58-1:59 - have the rabbit come through in 1:56. If that's the case, I think he may well go under 4:00.

I think you're looking at this like a sprinter too much where if you have speed you go out hard and hang on. To hang on a distance race for that last 400-600 you need strength. I agree with Achilles, he needs this race to be right on the edge in terms of pace and be closer to too slow than too fast because if he hits a wall I think his speed oriented style will leave him dead to rights. But if he can get to the last lap with anything left he has the speed to make up time.

[El Cuerpo]

I dont know what to say about this one in particular.... sub 4 attempt

I have an odd sense of confidence in this kid as well, more so than I've had in the last 3 years for anyone I've followed in the sport (except AJ... I thought he would do it).

I say he runs something in the range of 4:02-4:06 at this meet and then comes back and runs faster to win NON (if he's going... which I hope he is). I'm not necessarily predicting it... but I have a god feeling about this dude. QFfirstblackguytogosub4inamericanHS

[dma1924]

He was the FL state champ in XC right? It seems that he has just as much strength as Borchers, and slightly more speed (1:48.9 to 1:48 split). I see him at 4:02y, but he has as much chance as anyone from the past 5 years to break 4. History is against him; I, obviously, will be rooting for him.

[cnick]

GoldenSouth is running a 1600, not mile, but it'll still be cool to see how fast he can go. It's a shame he hasn't had anybody to race lately so he's not having to go at it solo in the final stages of the race.

[jiggy0408]

I dont know what to say about this one in particular.... sub 4 attempt

I have an odd sense of confidence in this kid as well, more so than I've had in the last 3 years for anyone I've followed in the sport (except AJ... I thought he would do it).

I say he runs something in the range of 4:02-4:06 at this meet and then comes back and runs faster to win NON (if he's going... which I hope he is). I'm not necessarily predicting it... but I have a god feeling about this dude. QFfirstblackguytogosub4inamericanHS

yea me too...i dont know what it is but i have a good feeling that this guy is going to do something big haha

[jmits88]

If this is a legit attempt at a sub-4 can't they just run the extra 9.344 meters?

I say 4:02-04

[roscoe]

i have an eerie feeling about this "attempt."

[TrackCoach]

If this is a legit attempt at a sub-4 can't they just run the extra 9.344 meters?

I say 4:02-04

If the GoldenSouth is smart, which I think they are; they will definitely run the full mile and have someone who can get Joe to the the 1200m around 3:02.

I say he has a better chance if he gets out too slow than too fast. I say hit the 800m in 2:01, the 1200m in 3:02 and if he is at 3:02 with a lap to go he'll turn the last lap in under 57.

[Scotty]

No chance at 3:59.99y

Wish him the best regardless.

[bdub525]

i like to think of it this way, do u think he could go out at a 148 and run 2x66's for the next lap. which i think is pretty possible.

i think he will be between 358-402.

[RunRichard11311]

i like to think of it this way, do u think he could go out at a 148 and run 2x66's for the next lap. which i think is pretty possible.

i think he will be between 358-402.

Huge range, there.

But who am I to talk, because I am not man enough to make my own predictions. Anyway, best of luck.

[jacksparrow34313]

i like to think of it this way, do u think he could go out at a 148 and run 2x66's for the next lap. which i think is pretty possible.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_yyp9wCA0zwA/RtnOV6qTOJI/AAAAAAAAAUI/mZKBAuhTrV8/s320/lolwut%5B1%5D.jpg

[thor!]

3:43

[destefano24]

If he does it I will eat my own head.

i thought you were a vegetarian???

[pmeyers279]

If he does it I will eat my own head.

keefe that quote is stolen from denny young.

but in all seriousness...i don't think he understands the difficulty of sub-4 (not that i do either...). For a kid who has yet to run significantly under 4:10 i find it increadibly precocious to say he's going to "take a shot at 4:00."

i haven't really read the thread...but that's my two cents.

[skeefe]

keefe that quote is stolen from denny young.


OMFGZ R U LYKE SID YOU CALLED HIM DENNY!?

[Improve]

I dont think he will get under 4 minz, but I hope does. Im predicting he breaks 4 for 1600 though :cool:.

[maverick]

just an update on this from the HS board. Apperently they are going to start the race at the mile start and set up 2 camaras. The official results will be taken from the 1st camera, making it a 1600, but if any competitors wish to run the extra 9 meters and get an official mile time, they will have that option.

EDIT: i am going to predict 403 high.

[maniacmiler]

4:06.67


It's not easy. Not only does the ability have to be there, the pacing can't be erratic and the weather has to perfect. He isn't going to miss on shear ablity, it's will because it probably won't go perfect for anyone to be sub-4.

[conabud]

4:03.54

[cmurph]

i like to think of it this way, do u think he could go out at a 148 and run 2x66's for the next lap. which i think is pretty possible.


If you believe this you're a total noob. His pr is virtually a 1:49. So you think he could run around 4:00 in a well paced race, and that he would also run around 4:00 by running a pr through the first 800? Why do you think people don't race that way? Have you ever run an all out 800? Do you think you could keep running and go 2 more laps at anything faster than 10 minute pace after? My legs can't even support my body after an all out 800, much less run 2 more laps at faster than 2 mile pace.

[Hayzeus]

4:06.23

[mptrack12]

4:00.22

[Shocka4ever]

-If he can really only go 9:15 for 3200 then i give him a 4:09y
-If he can actually run closer to 9 flat 3200 i predict 4:05y
-I am guessing he would have to run somewhere in the area of 8:43-8:50 for 3200 to be able to break 4 in the mile with 1:49 800 speed.

for this race i'm predicting 4:07.xx for the full mile. i honestly think people under estimate a lot how much speed AND strength it takes to break 4 minutes Webb was most likely capable of 8:25-8:30 for 3200 according to his coach.

[sub50orbust]

3:59.63

[CapeCodRunner92]

for this race i'm predicting 4:07.xx for the full mile. i honestly think people under estimate a lot how much speed AND strength it takes to break 4 minutes

i agree, you cannot rely solely on speed, you must have a mix of both. like people were saying earlier about centro, he had the strength, but not a quick enough leg turnover to break 4. 4:05.6x

[Shocka4ever]

3:59.63

if he breaks 4:03y i will video myself puking in a cup, then eating it two girls in one cup style and post it on dyestat.

[trackz]

I predict 4:06.78.

[BlackIrish]

3:58 for 1590 meters.

[Equinox2100]

sub-4 for 1600, just over for full mile

[sub50orbust]

if he breaks 4:03y i will video myself puking in a cup, then eating it two girls in one cup style and post it on dyestat.

I doubt it, but whatever you say.

[HINKLO]

if he breaks 4:03y i will video myself puking in a cup, then eating it two girls in one cup style and post it on dyestat.

Quoted for insurance.

[lasseviren]

just an update on this from the HS board. Apperently they are going to start the race at the mile start and set up 2 camaras. The official results will be taken from the 1st camera, making it a 1600, but if any competitors wish to run the extra 9 meters and get an official mile time, they will have that option.

EDIT: i am going to predict 403 high.

that seems like way more work than it has to be.

4:02.45

[Ash Ketchum]

if he breaks 4:03y i will video myself puking in a cup, then eating it two girls in one cup style and post it on dyestat.

I doubt it, but whatever you say.

QFE. I highly doubt it.

[Escape_Dummy]

i like to think of it this way, do u think he could go out at a 148 and run 2x66's for the next lap. which i think is pretty possible.

i think he will be between 358-402.

I think that's pretty stupid.

His pr is 1:48.

No.

[Escape_Dummy]

-If he can really only go 9:15 for 3200 then i give him a 4:09y
-If he can actually run closer to 9 flat 3200 i predict 4:05y
-I am guessing he would have to run somewhere in the area of 8:43-8:50 for 3200 to be able to break 4 in the mile with 1:49 800 speed.

for this race i'm predicting 4:07.xx for the full mile. i honestly think people under estimate a lot how much speed AND strength it takes to break 4 minutes Webb was most likely capable of 8:25-8:30 for 3200 according to his coach.

Dude are you sure about that one? I would guess Webb woulda run more like 8:30 lows, but 8:25? I dunno though.

[fireblasttrackster]

Joe is a fantastic runner but I am 99.9 percent sure he will not go sub 4, I don't even think hes the best miler in the country, top 5 yes but not the best no. That being said 4:07 full mile.

[cmurph]

Dude are you sure about that one? I would guess Webb woulda run more like 8:30 lows, but 8:25? I dunno though.

a 3:53 miler? easily. (his mile time +20 seconds) x 2 gives around 8:23 for 3200.

[RFXCrunner]

Really, anything below 4:05 would be a great mark for him. If he goes 4:02 or better, which I think is possible, it might be worth it to him to take another stab at it elsewhere, maybe at Pre (if he can get in).

[Wizard]

a 3:53 miler? easily. (his mile time +20 seconds) x 2 gives around 8:23 for 3200.

Easily? LOL

[adberg]

Too bad Joe is already 30 years old, it would be cool to see a real high schooler break it.

Ok seriously, not 30, but I can recall him being old for a high school senior.

[inyoface]

Too bad Joe is already 30 years old, it would be cool to see a real high schooler break it.

Ok seriously, not 30, but I can recall him being old for a high school senior.
Proof or STFU.

[cnick]

His birthday is September 12, 1988 but he's within the rules.

[adberg]

His birthday is September 12, 1988 but he's within the rules.

Ok, so I was very misinformed. I was under the impression he was already 20.

[inyoface]

His birthday is September 12, 1988 but he's within the rules.
Thank you.

[svc]

His birthday is September 12, 1988 but he's within the rules.

Seems a bit silly to me that the definition of "high school senior" can include a guy that's roughly 19 years 10 months old. What's the rationale behind the rule? Seems like 19 flat would be a more logical cutoff. I suppose it's a whole 'nother can of words to even bring this up...

[hijackthecar]

4:04.04

[conabud]

Seems a bit silly to me that the definition of "high school senior" can include a guy that's roughly 19 years 10 months old. What's the rationale behind the rule? Seems like 19 flat would be a more logical cutoff. I suppose it's a whole 'nother can of words to even bring this up...

i agree.....him breaking 4 will not hold the same meaning for me anymore.
sorry, but i'm sure i won't be alone with this opinion.
BUT.....good luck to him anyhow...breaking 4 is an unbelievable feat for anyone, no matter WHAT the age is.

[svc]

i agree.....him breaking 4 will not hold the same meaning for me anymore.
sorry, but i'm sure i won't be alone with this opinion.
BUT.....good luck to him anyhow...breaking 4 is an unbelievable feat for anyone, no matter WHAT the age is.

Well, it's certainly hard to disagree with that. :rolleyes:

On the plus side, if he does break break 4, at least he won't have to wait very long to celebrate legally with a drink. :)

[jacksparrow34313]

I mean, as long as he's within the rules it counts, it's stupid to complain about it, but he is almost a year older than me, and I've already finished a year of college. He is MORE than a year older than some of my friends who have also finished a year of college. Then again, none of us will probably ever break 4 minutes.

[inyoface]

Does it really matter? He is within the rules. It's not like he planned it that way.

[HINKLO]

I mean, as long as he's within the rules it counts, it's stupid to complain about it, but he is almost a year older than me, and I've already finished a year of college. He is MORE than a year older than some of my friends who have also finished a year of college. Then again, none of us will probably ever break 4 minutes.

Heck I've finished 2 years of college and I'm only a couple months older than him.

Does it really matter? He is within the rules. It's not like he planned it that way.

No, but I don't think anyone is disputing that. They're just saying that its less impressive for a 20 year old to break 4 minutes as opposed to 19, or 18 for that matter. Or 17 if you're Jim Ryun. I don't think anyone disagrees with that either.

[king99]

Here we go agin, let it be known that Franklin is pretty old HS'er, he is 19 and 8 months.

[Biscuit_AQ]

Here we go agin, let it be known that Franklin is pretty old HS'er, he is 19 and 8 months.

I remember having this debate about someone else long ago. Kiptoo, maybe.

As I always have, I say he is within the rules, but as old as a sophomore in college. It makes a difference in my perception.

I'll guess 4:03.12

[Leftfielder]

Here we go agin, let it be known that Franklin is pretty old HS'er, he is 19 and 8 months.

Lot in common with Paul Cross.

[ajs]

4:05.49

[svc]

Does it really matter? He is within the rules. It's not like he planned it that way.

I think we are complaining about the idiocy of the rule(s), not that Franklin is doing anything wrong. Because he isn't.

[Biscuit_AQ]

Did his parents enroll him in school late? Just curious, as that is really pushing the outer edge for HS athletes.

[Bfig09]

I'm gonna say 4:06-4:08.

[g2g4gold]

Gary Johnston: OK, a limosine that can fly. Now I have seen everything.
Spottswoode: Really? Have you seen a man eat his own head?
Gary Johnston: No.
Spottswoode: So then, you haven't seen everything.

I am rooting for Joe. He is such a great kid and he has such a fun attitude about the sport. Best of luck to him and I think he has the best shot out of anyone this year. Joe is over 26 months older than me, but if he is within the rules I dont think anyone should downplay any of his accomplishments, it wouldnt be fair.

[jacksparrow34313]

Gary Johnston: OK, a limosine that can fly. Now I have seen everything.
Spottswoode: Really? Have you seen a man eat his own head?
Gary Johnston: No.
Spottswoode: So then, you haven't seen everything.

I am rooting for Joe. He is such a great kid and he has such a fun attitude about the sport. Best of luck to him and I think he has the best shot out of anyone this year. Joe is over 26 months older than me, but if he is within the rules I dont think anyone should downplay any of his accomplishments, it wouldnt be fair.
I certainly hope no one tries to downplay it if he does it, IMO you can't downplay a sub-4 minute mile no matter who does it, no matter how you slice it, that is an extremely impressive accomplishment for anyone, regardless of age, height, weight, sPine length, whatever. Clearly though, a lot more people who are almost 20 break four than guys who are just turning 18. Doesn't make it less impressive IMO, but it is what it is.

[Improve]

So, whose the youngest person to ever break 4 minutes? Sorry for jumping off topic, but I must know.

[inyoface]

So, whose the youngest person to ever break 4 minutes? Sorry for jumping off topic, but I must know.
In the US or the world?

[Improve]

Both would be good.

[svc]

As long as we have thread drift, I'll guess that the record for oldest (and most) sub 4s belongs to Steve Scott...

[jacksparrow34313]

As long as we have thread drift, I'll guess that the record for oldest (and most) sub 4s belongs to Steve Scott...
Coghlan is the only person to break 4 after the age of 40, Scott tried but failed. Steve Scott does however, boast the record for fastest game of golf ever played.

edit: as for youngest guys to break 4, this is a list of all Americans to break 4 in the mile: https://www.trackandfieldnews.com/archive/us_sub4s_050108.pdf It has the dates that all of them broke 4 for the first time, so if someone really wanted to know who the youngest was they could figure out when all of those guys birthdays were...but there are 309 guys on that list, so it may take you a little while.

edit2: although I will wager a guess that the youngest was either Ryun, Danielson, Liquori, or Webb.

[MMLJ]

Ryun was barely 17 when he first broke 4 making him the youngest American to do so.