Webb

[Track Fan]

I didn't think his 3:55 was all that bad at PRE! He could be ready by Trials! Comments?

[gtothekizzle]

3 weeks of hard work will do a lot to a man.
hes capable of anything.

[dbandre]

3 weeks of hard work will make a man tired.

[gcrunner]

Trials 1500m predictions:
1 lagat
2 lomong
3 manzano
4 webb
5 wheating
6 rankin
7 jennings
8 krummenacker (just trying to fill up the last of the top 8)



the end.

[El Cuerpo]

7 years of hard work will make a man de-prove by 2 seconds in the mile.

[BlackIrish]

Too many bandwagon track and field fans FTW

[gcrunner]

Too many bandwagon track and field fans FTW

what bandwagon?

[BlackIrish]

what bandwagon?

Hatin' on Webb for what really was an unimportant meet specifically. It was his opener. 3:55 is fine.

[010]

Trials 1500m predictions:
1 lagat
2 lomong
3 manzano
4 webb
5 wheating
6 rankin
7 jennings
8 krummenacker (just trying to fill up the last of the top 8)



the end.

No Lukezic?? And I think it Wheating runs the trials he might go with the 800. i'll say:
1. Lomong
2. Lagat - just qualifying not going ftw
3. Webb - ehh he might be fine. i think he'll contend for a medal in the OG but I don't think he's ready to win so I think he'll give up at the trials and just do what he needs to qualify.
4. Manzano - I wouldn't be surprised if he won, but i think those 3 are the better bets.
5. Rankin
6. Lukezic

Idk if i can safely put Jennings up because I'm unsure if he will make finals, but if he's on and his old self I also could see a top 5 performance. Wheating will be GREAT but I don't think he's ready for the rounds of the trials if he does the 15.

[HINKLO]

Seriously...everyone loved Webb when he was running fast.

[ZackCampbell]

Seriously...everyone loved Webb when he was running fast.

Still a believer right here.

[OnePoint]

although i think webb ought to be in better shape than 3:55, i still can't see betting against him at the trials. i think lagat is a safe choice, but so is webb. lomong beat him at Pre, but that was webb's first race and lomong only took him by 2 seconds. 2 seconds may be a lot, but I think webb will sharpen up to the point where he is in over lomong...then its between lomong and manzano for the last two spots IMO. rankin, wheating, lukezic, myers could all be darkhorses. personally im rooting for Gabe...but thats a LONG LONG LONG shot, and he probably won't even make finals.

[crosscountryrunner]

Still a believer right here.

Same here. I think he going to be fine at the trials.

[miler12]

Webb will win a medal at the games. Im guaranteeing it. sig it if you wish so you have proof later, but webb shall win a medal. for the first time, 2 americans will be on the podium in the 1500.

[ZackCampbell]

Webb will win a medal at the games. Im guaranteeing it. sig it if you wish so you have proof later, but webb shall win a medal. for the first time, 2 americans will be on the podium in the 1500.

Hell yeah.

[crosscountryrunner]

for the first time, 2 americans will be on the podium in the 1500.

For the first time since 1912.

[2minutemile]

Webb will win a medal at the games. Im guaranteeing it. sig it if you wish so you have proof later, but webb shall win a medal. for the first time, 2 americans will be on the podium in the 1500.

done.

[jacksparrow34313]

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't slightly worried about Webb at the moment. Because of the rocky road his career has taken, I'm always worried about him...I think that's why I like him, he's like most human beings, besides being immensely talented. As a runner who has had plenty of ups and downs, inexplicable bad races, long periods where I just couldn't seem to feel good about running at all, and other periods where I can't do a thing wrong, he is a lot easier to associate with than a guy like El Geurrouj. While I admire that type of runner for their consistency and dominance, I like Webb because while he is possibly the most talented middle-distance runner this country has ever produced, he has the same weaknesses that we lesser human beings suffer from.

But enough of my personal ramblings. From my perspective, anyone who is cheering against Webb making the team is cheering against the USA, simple as that. Now anyone who knows me knows that I'm not a crazy "proud to be an American" bumper sticker sporting American flag waving patriot, but this is my country, and the Olympic team is our team, and I want to see them do well just as I want the Yankees do well in baseball. Bottom line, no American has won a medal in the 1500 since 1968, and no American has won gold in the 1500 since 1908. Outside of Lagat, Webb is the only guy with the physical ability to do either of those things. I don't care if you think the other guys like Manzano or whoever are smarter racers, cooler under pressure, whatever. None of that matters, because none of them are good enough to be on the medal stand, it simply will not, CAN NOT, happen. If you want to see America do well at the Olympics, you should be cheering for Lagat and Webb to both make the team, period. Now, if you go to Texas, or your cousin was Lukezic's roommate, or something of that nature, I can fully appreciate wanting to see them make the Olympic team. But, as HINKLO said, a lot of people are suddenly not giving this guy any support because he isn't doing well? I don't understand it, and never will.


JS

[gcrunner]

I agree w/ jack sparrow that once things turn sour for Webb, people don't take him seriously anymore or think he's overtrained/hurt/etc.. which is too bad since he's an exceptional runner but his erratic performances deserve it. When he go from setting an AR to DNF or only running a 3:55 mile, people will start to criticize him because people expect more.
In my opinion, Webb will not even make the Olympic team but we'll see.

[Evilution]

But enough of my personal ramblings. From my perspective, anyone who is cheering against Webb making the team is cheering against the USA, simple as that. Now anyone who knows me knows that I'm not a crazy "proud to be an American" bumper sticker sporting American flag waving patriot, but this is my country, and the Olympic team is our team, and I want to see them do well just as I want the Yankees do well in baseball. Bottom line, no American has won a medal in the 1500 since 1968, and no American has won gold in the 1500 since 1908. Outside of Lagat, Webb is the only guy with the physical ability to do either of those things. I don't care if you think the other guys like Manzano or whoever are smarter racers, cooler under pressure, whatever. None of that matters, because none of them are good enough to be on the medal stand, it simply will not, CAN NOT, happen. If you want to see America do well at the Olympics, you should be cheering for Lagat and Webb to both make the team, period. Now, if you go to Texas, or your cousin was Lukezic's roommate, or something of that nature, I can fully appreciate wanting to see them make the Olympic team. But, as HINKLO said, a lot of people are suddenly not giving this guy any support because he isn't doing well? I don't understand it, and never will.

reminded me a lot of this http://track.flocasts.org/videos/play/11492

[wetpits]

So, Webb was faster at this point last year. He also didn't produce/was burnt out come world championship time. I'm banking that Webb changed his training around a bit, so that he will be fresher come the Olympics. This was his first race of the season, give him a break. All this is is a little rust shaker. He'll be back fo sho!

[slater8011]

I think Webb is approaching this year alot different than last year. He abviously didn't do as well as he wanted at world's and lagat won. Webb was running awesome in June and July last year, and he opened up alot earlier. We also didn't see anything amazing at this time last year from lagat, he placed 3rd in the trials (not saying he couldn't have won), and then he blew webb out of the water at the world championships. I think Webb learned a lesson and is trying to peak later this year and this was just a rustbuster, he isn't aiming for the trials as much as he was last year when he ran great there, he is aiming at the olympics. But with starting this late and lacking sharpness, he's taking a risk of not making the olympics and if he doesn't make it he won't have a chance to prove himself at the games, so it's a gamble. If he makes the team like I think he will, he should do pretty good at the games.

[Heracles]

I think Webb will make the team, I have always had faith in the guy. Personally, I even believe he can take Big G's mile record.



I'm not rooting for him to make the team, but to win teh olympics.

[HINKLO]

I think Webb will make the team, I have always had faith in the guy. Personally, I even believe he can take Big G's mile record.



I'm not rooting for him to make the team, but to win teh olympics.

I know thats an opinion and opinions aren't wrong yadda yadda, but 3.x seconds is a lifetime when you're under 3:50

[kingcoe]

I will never root against Webb (nor have I ever) and I agree that he is our best chance of an American on the stand apart from Lagat. I also agree that he is exciting and accessible because of his being so human. His success is ours and his failures are our own.

He MUST make the Olympic Team. And yet if he doesn't we will all learn something individually from that too. We will continue fighting no matter what individual results occur. We will always do our best. It is why most of us or all of run or have run.

That said, I worry about Webb. 3 weeks. It is so short. The Olympic Trials is brutal. Pre did not look good. I only hope they have not run into too many injury troubles or have aimed their peak too late.

Please, please, please Webb. Make our team. I have faith and will have faith until I see three other proud men pass the line in front of you.

Best wishes.

[jaygray]

I have faith in Webb, too. Buster had a much worse outing, relatively speaking.

I think that in order to settle down and be triumphantly consistent that, like his cohorts Dathan and Ryan, Alan needs to get married. Just needs to. And if he's switched teams, well, CA is amenable. :rolleyes:

[TrackCoach]

Even if Webb runs no better than he did at Pre he still would have at least a 1 in 6 chance of making the team. I am pretty sure Webb realized halfway into that race that he was probably not going to win or run a great time and focused on getting in a solid race in. I am not sure why, but Webb tends to lose confidence and focus when he realizes a race is not going his way. But, if that race had been the USOT, I am certain he could have gutted out a more imspired last lap.

Expect for Lagat, Webb is so far ahead of the rest of the guys that if he is healthly and does not trip and fall...he's on the Olympic team.

[Track Fan]

I do think Webb needs some races! I heard he going 800 this weekend. Good move there

[TryinandDyin]

He didnt look bad..A little tight..Is he now a member of Hair Club for Men?

[DonkeyKongRunner]

The thing always in question is webb's mental ability in the race. Now even though his time wasn't great and he looked very labored the entire time i feel as though he ran a very good mental race. He didn't quit when he fell off the pack and he kicked it in hard. Three weeks of some intervals he should look smoother. If he can qualify he has plenty of time to peak for the olympics and come away with a medal.

We'll see how much he wants it.

[Track Fan]

he needs to sharpen for sure! I'm a little worried about the heats etc at the Oly trials! Its going to tough this year to be top 3!

You got Lagat for sure, and

Webb, Lomong, Rankin, Mazano are all in the 3:35 range currrently!

[conabud]

i agree that he will do better in the olympics than at the trials....but he'll run good enough at the trials to make the team. Lagat will also go of course, and i'd like to see Lomong get the 3rd spot.

[Darkman]

webb is perfect i feel for setting up for the olympics because that is of course his goal the olympics and not the trials. 3:55 in the opener was great the announcers just talked down because he was in the back. Hes running again next week then his legs should be ready. Keep in mind last indoor he opened with a 356 than a 355 so i think hes heading in the rite direction

[WildcatXC]

The thing about this is if Webb had run 3:48 at Pre we'd be talking about how he screwed up his peak again.

I'm glad Webb ran 3:55... It makes me feel like he has some sort of plan for the Olympics, which is of course all that matters. Last year he got all our hopes up with his run at US Nats, Paris, and of course the AR. This year he's getting my hopes up by not running super fast in June. Like Lagat last year, I think (hope) Webb is setting up his peak nicely.

As far as making the team goes, I find it hard to believe that he can go from setting the AR in the mile and leading the world at 1500 to not making the team... Webb is at another level from Lomong and Manzano, as good as those guys are. All Webb needs is to get another 2-3 seconds faster in the next three weeks, which is completely realistic as he gets race sharp. Unless there really is a reason, like an injury, explaining why Webb hasn't run fast so far this year, then I like his chances.

Besides it'd be stupid to see Manzano and Lomong or whatever at the OG... we all know they have ZERO chance of medalling, let alone making the finals. Webb has it in him to be a medal threat, based on last year.

[010]

Webb did NOT burn out last year. He was less than a second from winning. He just wasn't ready for the rounds and tactics of Worlds IMO. I think Webb would very well medal this year, but to me I see Webb as more of a guy to run very fast times in his career but I don't know or think that he will ever get an Olympic Gold. You can improve tactics, and I'm sure he learned from last year, and a different approach in training could help him with the rounds. But 3:55? Come on guys. That is not a world class time. Andrew Wheating, a sophomore in college with 3 years of running under his belt can do that. I would still expect 3:52 at Pre give or take a second. I'm not saying he's worse off than last year, but he's not that much better. Also, Manzano and Lomong are on a different level, but I could easily see both beating him if he isn't ready for the trials.

[Mikerunner]

Webb did NOT burn out last year. He was less than a second from winning. He just wasn't ready for the rounds and tactics of Worlds IMO. I think Webb would very well medal this year, but to me I see Webb as more of a guy to run very fast times in his career but I don't know or think that he will ever get an Olympic Gold. You can improve tactics, and I'm sure he learned from last year, and a different approach in training could help him with the rounds. But 3:55? Come on guys. That is not a world class time. Andrew Wheating, a sophomore in college with 3 years of running under his belt can do that. I would still expect 3:52 at Pre give or take a second. I'm not saying he's worse off than last year, but he's not that much better. Also, Manzano and Lomong are on a different level, but I could easily see both beating him if he isn't ready for the trials.

I disagree. Webb was at his peak form a month before worlds Even in recent interviews he admits to that.

[Mikerunner]

7 years of hard work will make a man de-prove by 2 seconds in the mile.

ignorant statement....remember what he ran last year..and this year has just begun.

[ZackCampbell]

ignorant statement....remember what he ran last year..and this year has just begun.

He was kidding.

[010]

I disagree. Webb was at his peak form a month before worlds Even in recent interviews he admits to that.

I understand that. I'm just saying I think he may not be looking at it the right way.
I think he'll still make the team and depending on how things go I would probably bet on him finishing better than 8th. Medal perhaps.

[petec1122]

Seriously...everyone loved Webb when he was running fast.

Still a believer right here.

Same here. I think he going to be fine at the trials.

hell yea

[Track Fan]

I understand that. I'm just saying I think he may not be looking at it the right way.
I think he'll still make the team and depending on how things go I would probably bet on him finishing better than 8th. Medal perhaps.

Webb can manage a good 1500 by Trials for sure, but will he get though the rounds OK?

[newyorkfrosh]

He didnt look bad..A little tight..Is he now a member of Hair Club for Men?


I had the same question!! It looked like he was wearing a hair hat. Maybe this slowed him down.

[xcmiler245]

Personally, I'm not sure what to think of what Webb is doing.

Part of me a little worried about how he'll do at trials, but I can't forget his 3:46...So perhaps he is well aware that talent-wise, he's head and shoulders above the rest of the field (excluding Lagat of course) and isn't worried about being at even 95% for the trials.

That's where part of me is excited. Razcko and Alan could just be approaching this year with enough confidence that they aren't worried much about the trials and are gearing his peak solely for the Games, rather than towards holding a plateau like they tried last year. It's very confusing, I feel he should be a lot more fit and race-ready at this point, but then again, it could bode VERY well for his performance in Beijing:)

[Light Horse]

Seriously...everyone loved Webb when he was running fast.

I've always hated him, even after is AR

[cah87]

Webb did NOT burn out last year. He was less than a second from winning. He just wasn't ready for the rounds and tactics of Worlds IMO.

I disagree. When he was at his peak he had a very good last 100m. When he beat Mottram and Lagat in NY he blazed the last 100m(6/?). When be beat Baala in Paris(7/6) he had an awesome last 100m. When he ran his 143.84(7/28) he had an awesome last 100m. All of these races he ran very fast and beat world medalists in the last 100m. Osaka did not start until Aug 24th. He ran his best races basically a month before Osaka. Sure his tactics weren't the best. He took the lead a little too early in the Finals, but he was in the lead at the end of the turn. If he had the same kick the last 100m he had when he ran any of the races I mentioned he would have won. In the semi-finals Webb was in last place until 300m to go and barely advanced. Sure he closed really well, but you want to comfortably advance each round.

The 3:55 confuses me. Lagat didn't run well leading up to Osaka, but he ran several races. He just had poor results. Everyone was writing him off, which was idiotic. He ran a 7:32 indoors and won some tough indoor miles. It was obviously either injury or illness. Webb did not run indoors and just opened his season. Its too early to hit the panic button yet. As long as there is not an underlining medical problem Webb should be ready for the trials. Three weeks is enough time to cut back a little bit and hit some workout that will get him sharp. He has probably only been doing a couple of weeks of miler workouts at this point. The only thing that worries me is that he did not really try to stay with the lead group at PRE and fell off the back.

[Track Fan]

Was Webb offically injured?

[cah87]

Not that I have heard. The 8k in NYC he complained of food poisoning. He withdrew from Drake because he was unfit (http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/3/3_5/unfit-alan-webb-pulls-out.shtml). I forget why he dropped out of the 5k.

[xcrunna]

The 3:55 confuses me. Lagat didn't run well leading up to Osaka, but he ran several races. He just had poor results. Everyone was writing him off, which was idiotic. He ran a 7:32 indoors and won some tough indoor miles. It was obviously either injury or illness.
Lagat had a stomach ailment until right before that 1000 he ran.

[010]

I disagree. When he was at his peak he had a very good last 100m. When he beat Mottram and Lagat in NY he blazed the last 100m(6/?). When be beat Baala in Paris(7/6) he had an awesome last 100m. When he ran his 143.84(7/28) he had an awesome last 100m. All of these races he ran very fast and beat world medalists in the last 100m. Osaka did not start until Aug 24th. He ran his best races basically a month before Osaka. Sure his tactics weren't the best. He took the lead a little too early in the Finals, but he was in the lead at the end of the turn. If he had the same kick the last 100m he had when he ran any of the races I mentioned he would have won. In the semi-finals Webb was in last place until 300m to go and barely advanced. Sure he closed really well, but you want to comfortably advance each round.


But in all those races, he didn't have rounds. I think he trained with a lot of speedwork so he could have that big finish at worlds (I think this because he had said things along these lines and because his blazin 800). I believe that kind of training, perhaps running less miles, doesn't perpare you for the rounds. I could be wrong. I feel the same and agree completely with xcmiler. Struggling now could bring a great performance at the Olympic. Lagat had some bumps along the road last year. We'll see.

[cah87]

Lagat had a stomach ailment until right before that 1000 he ran.

I know. My point was the comparison between Lagat doing poor races last year being a good sign for Webb seem to be misguided. El G did the same thing in 2004, but I believe he had allergy problems. Point is, both do not seem planned.

As far as rounds go, you could be right. Its hard to say either way. Its hard with any kind of training to run three really hard races in 5 days. I just think running your best races of the year a month or more before Worlds seems like a peaking problem. It could be both.

[maniacmiler]

147 for Webb, it's official he is ****ed

[pln09]

147 for Webb, it's official he is ****ed

That doesn't concern me as much as his 5th place finish.

[xcrunna]

147 for Webb, it's official he is ****ed
Supposedly he pace the 1200 in 2:53 not very long after. Since when is 3:55/1:47 guy so screwed. Yes, Lagat should beat him, but Lomong and Manzano are marginally better in his current form, and Webb get sharp very quickly.

[kingcoe]

Let's try to remember that up until he snuck into the 1:45s last year and then burst that stunning 1:43 last summer Webb has always been a horrible 800 runner competitively - he has had lots of poor finishes and was stuck in the 1:46-1:47 range. Even when he was running 3:33 folks debated on here if he could even break 1:46 . . .

I'm interested in the pacing to 1200 in 2:53 shortly after. Is that confirmed?

1:47 nor the 5th place show anything except that he was in phenomenal shape last season. His 1:43 last year was like Cram when he ran in the 1:42s - it shouldn't have happened and it simply showed that at that time they just couldn't put a foot wrong.

I would like to know if he really ran 1:47 and then paced the 1200. If he did, I think this was a decent outing and will remain encouraged again that he has a chance to make the team and will remain hopeful until three deserving men cross the line in front of him.

It ain't over till the hair club for men representative sings :D

[UWGB Phoenix Runner]

I think this is one of two things.

1. Webb just hasn't sharpened up (peaked) yet.

2. Or more likely in my opinion. Webb breaks some records last year, gets really motivated and overtrains a bit. You see this ALL THE TIME coming into championship years. Guys get nervous or excited and try to get an edge by working harder.

Even if it's just because he hasn't sharpened much yet, it is going to have to be an abnormally percise peak for him to pull it off.

[Heracles]

Supposedly the 800 went out slow via letsrun. Webb was reportedly 52.7 for the first 400, while being near the front in 3rd place.

Also, I believe Webb was dropped the last 200 when the leaders pulled away.


BTW, first place came in at 1:46ish, so not much of a loss IMO.




Webb's splits:
25.9 200
52.7ish 400
1:20.01ht 600
1.47.xx 800

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2523306&page=3#2529590

He was in last place the first 100



ALSO

he rabbitted till the 1200 in 2:53, supposedly a short while after

split 1:55/2:38.9/2:53? (800/1100/1200) so 43 + 14.x?

check the letsrun thread, it seems all this worrying over Webb may be for naught?

[Track Fan]

This is going to be tight at US Trials!!!!

[aivala]

he rabbitted the 1200 20 minutes after the 800

[king99]

actually if it was TRUELY 20 minutes later, that is some double.

[pokerking55]

While am i a little worried, I still think he is ok. I can't imagine him not making the US team. And he has 2 months to sharpen up before the games.

I just remember last year how everyone, including me, had written off Lagat. He had so many poor races leading up to WC's, then bam guy gets 2 golds.

[jmits88]

http://www.talk.dyestat.com/showthread.php?t=69123&highlight=webb+medal

just look at the poll results from that thread. It just shows that people on here as a whole (myself included) make too many quick judgments judging an athlete's (especially Webb) recent poor/good performances.

-Webb WILL medal in Osaka
-Centrowitz CAN break 4
-German WILL run sub 8:30

and now Webb won't make an Olympic team.

[Zen Miler]

actually if it was TRUELY 20 minutes later, that is some double.

Or both were perhaps some workout? Is this a possibility?

[rippev]

Lagat
Webb
Lukezic
Manzano
Lamong

[sc3l]

Or both were perhaps some workout? Is this a possibility?

After hearing about him rabbiting the 1500 after the 800, i had the same thought

[cmurph]

http://www.talk.dyestat.com/showthread.php?t=69123&highlight=webb+medal

just look at the poll results from that thread. It just shows that people on here as a whole (myself included) make too many quick judgments judging an athlete's (especially Webb) recent poor/good performances.

-Webb WILL medal in Osaka
-Centrowitz CAN break 4
-German WILL run sub 8:30

and now Webb won't make an Olympic team.

Why do you think they're quick judgements? Maybe they're carefully thought out judgements. For example, Webb had the top mile and 1500 times in the world. He had the 2nd fastest 800 meter time in the world. He had displayed an unstoppable kick in almost every single race he ran. What more could you want? It was very reasonable to expect a podium finish for him. We weren't making a quick judgement based on a single race result; we were making a judgement based on an entire year of stellar performances. It is also very reasonable to expect a sub-8:30 out of German.

edit: sorry my post was a little off topic. I agree somewhat with regards to Webb and his 3:55

[kingcoe]

Or both were perhaps some workout? Is this a possibility?

I think it has to be. The 800 could be considered a race but the two put together has to be considered a test/ workout to assess fitness and sharpen.

[Track Fan]

[QUOTE=Heracles;2567901]Supposedly the 800 went out slow via letsrun. Webb was reportedly 52.7 for the first 400, while being near the front in 3rd place.

Also, I believe Webb was dropped the last 200 when the leaders pulled away."



There is the problem, surely Webb could run a 3:35/3:36 right now with a even paced race, Oly Trials will be choppy and could be tactical at best... The last 100 will make or break him there!

[kingcoe]

And even if Webb does team up with Lagat to run at 3:35/ 3:36 pace there are now many more folks who are ready to run it with them . . .

The mayhem begins and the mystery unfolds on July 3rd (my birthday) on the same day Wariner and Merritt should be squaring off again :)

This is going to drive me crazy until it plays out . . .

Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[Heracles]

http://www.talk.dyestat.com/showthread.php?t=69123&highlight=webb+medal

just look at the poll results from that thread. It just shows that people on here as a whole (myself included) make too many quick judgments judging an athlete's (especially Webb) recent poor/good performances.

-Webb WILL medal in Osaka
-Centrowitz CAN break 4
-German WILL run sub 8:30

and now Webb won't make an Olympic team.

Webb was the favorite in going into Worlds. Nobody knew he would burn up--- I mean come on, the fastest mile in the world, and also one of the fastest 800 times as well. He was also undefeated in every single race, so why wouldn't people think he would medal?

I don't think there was that many people who thought Centro would break 4:00. I never thought he would, in high school at least. To me he just didn't strike me as having enough speed at the time.

German... he has a shot at running sub 8:30 (3200 especially!), we don't know yet what he can do. But personally I think most people were thinking he would break 8:36, not 8:30. I don't recall many people talking about 8:30.

[watchout]

Trials 1500m predictions:
1 lagat
2 lomong
3 manzano
4 webb
5 wheating
6 rankin
7 jennings
8 krummenacker (just trying to fill up the last of the top 8)



the end.


1. Manzano
2. Lagat
3. Webb
4. Lomong
5. Wheating
6. Lukezic
7. Rankin
8. Tegenkamp


But while I'm at it, although maybe it doesn't belong on this thread .. (based on entries found here: http://www.usatf.org/events/2008/OlympicTrials-TF/entry/status.asp)

800m:
1. Johnson
2. Robinson
3. Symmonds
4. Burley
5. Lomong
6. Wheating
7. Harris
8. Hernandez

5000m:
1. Lagat
2. Solinsky
3. Tegenkamp
4. Dobson
5. Asmerom
6. Riley
7. Rupp
8. Vaughn

10000m:
1. Abdi
2. Rupp
3. Meb
4. Rohantinsky
5. Ritz
6. Torres
7. Browne
8. Moran

[Track Fan]

[QUOTE=watchout;2573900]
1. Manzano
2. Lagat
3. Webb
4. Lomong
5. Wheating
6. Lukezic
7. Rankin
8. Tegenkamp


But while I'm at it, although maybe it doesn't belong on this thread .. (based on entries found here: http://www.usatf.org/events/2008/OlympicTrials-TF/entry/status.asp)

lagat is the clear fav here, if manzano won, it be a HUGE upset

[NSHSDad]

It would be great to see Leo take it, not sure it will materialize, but I like the thought.

[watchout]

1. Manzano
2. Lagat
3. Webb
4. Lomong
5. Wheating
6. Lukezic
7. Rankin
8. Tegenkamp


But while I'm at it, although maybe it doesn't belong on this thread .. (based on entries found here: http://www.usatf.org/events/2008/OlympicTrials-TF/entry/status.asp)

lagat is the clear fav here, if manzano won, it be a HUGE upset

Clearly he is, but that doesn't mean it can't happen :)

[runnerman17]

Has it been brought up that maybe Webb is just peeking right? he may not be able to run 3:50-ish now but come the Trials I think he will have just enough to make it 1/2 there and then come to Games I see a medal. It is a good thing he isn't running 3:46 now IMO (although it would be nice if he could be well not peaked and run 3:46)

[Track Fan]

Has it been brought up that maybe Webb is just peeking right? he may not be able to run 3:50-ish now but come the Trials I think he will have just enough to make it 1/2 there and then come to Games I see a medal. It is a good thing he isn't running 3:46 now IMO (although it would be nice if he could be well not peaked and run 3:46)

Peaking right in the middle of August yes, peaking right now, no way.

[pln09]

Has it been brought up that maybe Webb is just peeking right? he may not be able to run 3:50-ish now but come the Trials I think he will have just enough to make it 1/2 there and then come to Games I see a medal. It is a good thing he isn't running 3:46 now IMO (although it would be nice if he could be well not peaked and run 3:46)

It doesn't matter if he peaks in August if he doesn't make it past trials.

Time will tell.

[Track Fan]

It doesn't matter if he peaks in August if he doesn't make it past trials.

Time will tell.

EXACTLY!

[BlackIrish]

Looks like people like to join the Manzano bandwagon when Webb is going to kick some ass at Trials. Watch Manzano not even make it. :rolleyes:

[abap]

If webb shaves his head again, he will be good to go by the trials.

[MIDAS]

I was talking with my younger brother who doesn't have a very good understanding of track, but knows some of the major figures. I told him Webb ran a 3:55 at Pre and that a lot of people thought he wasn't going to be ready for the trials. He replied: "dude he can go way faster, he was running that kind of s*** when he was 18." That gave me my answer about the trials.

[watchout]

Looks like people like to join the Manzano bandwagon when Webb is going to kick some ass at Trials. Watch Manzano not even make it. :rolleyes:

Watch them both make it :cool:

[RFXCrunner]

Both of them making it is gonna be tough. Lomong has already run 3:53 this season, and Lagat is Lagat. Only 3 spots...

[watchout]

Both of them making it is gonna be tough. Lomong has already run 3:53 this season, and Lagat is Lagat. Only 3 spots...

but Webb is Webb (AR in the mile and all that, ya know?), and Manzano is on a roll, too.

No one said it was going to be easy. All the events have 4+ athletes that very well could make the team... the 1500m is no exception.

[Track Fan]

but Webb is Webb (AR in the mile and all that, ya know?), and Manzano is on a roll, too.

No one said it was going to be easy. All the events have 4+ athletes that very well could make the team... the 1500m is no exception.


Everyone loves Lomong and Manzano for sure! Lagat is beast and Webb was a beast in 2007! Lets HOPE!!

[kingcoe]

All sorts of disappointments await in the trials 1500. I can't even stand to make predictions . . .

The excitement starts July 3rd . . .

[Prince]

I can understand how Manzano could beat Lagat in the scenario where Lagat conserves for the 5k, but other than that I don't see him beating Lagat in a legit race.

I'm curious to know how you think that'd go down Watchout?

[pokerking55]

what is Manzano's best time this season?

last year he went 3:35 correct?


regardless webb makes the team, along with lagat and I think lomong.

[watchout]

I can understand how Manzano could beat Lagat in the scenario where Lagat conserves for the 5k, but other than that I don't see him beating Lagat in a legit race.

I'm curious to know how you think that'd go down Watchout?

I just wanted to throw out a bold prediction somewhere. They both fly down the homestretch ... Manzano beat Lagat last year, so it wouldn't be unheard of.

AT&T USA National Outdoor Track & Field Championships (http://www.usatf.org/events/2007/USAOutdoorTFChampionships/results/F5.asp)

Men 1500 Meter Run
================================================== ==============
World: W 3:26.00 7/7/1998 Hicham El Guerrouj, MAR
American: A 3:29.30 8/28/2005 Bernard Lagat, Nike
Meet: M 3:34.92 6/20/1982 Steve Scott, Sub 4 TC
Name Year Team Finals
================================================== ==============
Finals
1 Alan Webb Nike 3:34.82M
2 Leonel Manzano Texas 3:35.29
3 Bernard Lagat Nike 3:35.55
4 Christopher Lukezic Reebok 3:36.95

[BomberRunner]

bump

good win in the semi's, should be a big confidence boost

[Slow Runner]

I really would not like Lomong to make it

[Salg70x7]

I really would not like Lomong to make it

QFE

I'm going to say Lagat, Manzano, Webb, most likely in that order...

but i still want Lukezic to get in.

[WildcatXC]

bump

good win in the semi's, should be a big confidence boost

not sure why he was pushing so much though... even when he had it all wrapped up in the last 100 he was still pushing... better than forcing himself to hammer the last 200 just to get in, but a waste of energy, considering he could've run probably 3-4 seconds slower and gotten through cuz everyone in that heat made it.

[ForeverCrossCountry]

I really would not like Lomong to make it

i agree, i used to like lomong until he cried about about the 800. he wasnt going to get in and i dont think that him being "interferred" with would have made any difference.

[hoegher]

not sure why he was pushing so much though... even when he had it all wrapped up in the last 100 he was still pushing... better than forcing himself to hammer the last 200 just to get in, but a waste of energy, considering he could've run probably 3-4 seconds slower and gotten through cuz everyone in that heat made it.

From what I saw in his interview, it seemed like he just wanted to get out there and run. He said that usually he hates prelims, but now he was looking forward to them because it was a chance to get a few "races" in before the finals. I'm guessing he ran hard the same reason you'll do strides- to stretch the legs and just get that feeling of going fast again. We'll see how it pans out for him.

[dbandre]

From what I saw in his interview, it seemed like he just wanted to get out there and run. He said that usually he hates prelims, but now he was looking forward to them because it was a chance to get a few "races" in before the finals. I'm guessing he ran hard the same reason you'll do strides- to stretch the legs and just get that feeling of going fast again. We'll see how it pans out for him.

From what I have been reading and gathering is that his plan is basically to race himself into form, which goes right along with his interview as you pointed out. I still expect a fast final and I don't expect Webb to make it either still. Even though he's improved by at least 3-4s over the last 3 weeks. Although the 3:41 is on par with his 3:58 Pre meet performance, this race he actually looked more comfortable and finished much better.

The semi's will be faster than 3:41 and they should have ran 36 instead of 30 to make things a little more honest. Only 6 non-qualifiers from prelims, but 12 go out in semi's??? Expect the semi's to be fast too as 12 guys have the A standard I believe all of them made it out so expect it to be close to the A standard for winning times or maybe slightly better.

After Lagat's performance I don't expect him to want the pace of the final to be anything slower than 3:36 pace through the first 700-800m. He didn't have the same zip tonight although he did shut it down with 5m to go.

[Jekyllman]

My take on the prelims:

Webb looked good and pushed it to get the feeling/confidence back. He makes the team

Manzano looked good but he's definitely borderline, I could see him in 4th.

Lagat always wins. End. He just played it smart and did what he needed to do to get in. You don't sit in last place w/300m to go unless you're feeling good. He makes the team, obviously.

Lomong, interesting guy, he's changed his style a little. I think the 800m is the low end of his range and the intense pace didn't allow him to take it, although he got close. I bet he feels more comfortable with the 1500m pace. Lomong makes the team.

Dark horses are definitely a possibility. I like Lukezic. He's my DH.


Edit: Acosta got cut off, he's in finals by protest. (prediction, don't freak out.)

[GiveMeMahBread!!1]

did anyone else feel that lagat cut it too close with his 1500, it looked like he struggled a bit to make the top six, but of course he still made it

[Coffee]

did anyone else feel that lagat cut it too close with his 1500, it looked like he struggled a bit to make the top six, but of course he still made it

nah..actually thought he ran the smartest race out of anyone..just did what he had 2 to get in..sat back and didnt use much effort. good idea considering he'd already ran the 5k at the trials twice. he'll be fine come finals.

[g0ld3n]

Edit: Acosta got cut off, he's in finals by protest. (prediction, don't freak out.)

Acosta didn't seem like he was "into" the race. Whether he fell down or not if you analyze the race footage it seemed like too much was going on in his mind for him to be able to concentrate. I hope he makes it in the finals though because I feel pretty bad for anyone, especially Acosta, he's cool, to trip at Oly Trials and get eliminated like that. It was a really good move to keep running on his part though instead of dropping. That definitely increased his odds of making it by protest.

[dbandre]

did anyone else feel that lagat cut it too close with his 1500, it looked like he struggled a bit to make the top six, but of course he still made it

Yes and no. He definitely struggled a bit, maybe it was the pace of the pack and fatigue from the 5k's, but he qualified shutting it down even though his kick didn't look it had the same zip.

[SwissMountainRunner]

I'm for Gabe as the darkhorse. He came to see a play I was in in Madison, WI when he was in highschool about 10 years ago. The show was a love or hate thing, with most people hating it. There were like 8 people in the audience including him and his parents. He stayed after to tell us how much he liked the play. Nice guy. While he's still got a lot of speed, I'd like to see him try his luck in Mountain Running. Not much money in it, but lots of fun and great competition.

Re: the love ya when you're the best, you suck when you're down deal Webb's getting, it reminds me of Paula Radcliffe's treatment in Britain. As she has shown, if you stick around and keep trying to be at the top and take chances, eventually you get what you want.

[S.E.B.runner]

As she has shown, if you stick around and keep trying to be at the top and take chances, eventually you get what you want.
Or a stress fracture.

I reckon it will be Lagat, Manzano, Webb.

[runnerman17]

Acosta didn't seem like he was "into" the race. Whether he fell down or not if you analyze the race footage it seemed like too much was going on in his mind for him to be able to concentrate. I hope he makes it in the finals though because I feel pretty bad for anyone, especially Acosta, he's cool, to trip at Oly Trials and get eliminated like that. It was a really good move to keep running on his part though instead of dropping. That definitely increased his odds of making it by protest.

I bet he was thinking "I hate DH, I hate DH, I hate DH" and then bam DH used the force to make him go splat on his face.

[Track Fan]

Webb looked pretty good out there last night. Don't think Jennings will advance though tonight. Who's the darkhorse here?

[trackz]

Webb looked pretty good out there last night. Don't think Jennings will advance though tonight. Who's the darkhorse here?

Sherer :D?

[Sizzlexc]

I still have faith in Webb.

[KKreme15]

Webb looked pretty good out there last night. Don't think Jennings will advance though tonight. Who's the darkhorse here?

ima say it again
shane stroup

[cmurph]

nah..actually thought he ran the smartest race out of anyone..just did what he had 2 to get in..sat back and didnt use much effort. good idea considering he'd already ran the 5k at the trials twice. he'll be fine come finals.

atypical race for lagat. I think he wasted energy have to pass so many guys in the last 300. I think it would have been easier for him if he had run his typical race and stayed closer to the front so he could have run an easy, even-paced race

[gcrunner]

ima say it again
shane stroup

who?

[AquinasCrossCountry9]

atypical race for lagat. I think he wasted energy have to pass so many guys in the last 300. I think it would have been easier for him if he had run his typical race and stayed closer to the front so he could have run an easy, even-paced race

qfe, you could tell he was working hard that last 300, i think if he would have ran in the front of the chase pack and just eased up at the finish he would have used less energy

[gcrunner]

Sherer :D?

i really think that sherer has a legitimate chance of making the team. he has a good chance as jennings or lukezic. but he'll prolly end up 5th or 6th in all likelihodd.

[KKreme15]

who?

lol
he went to my high school/UF

[CrimsonClover]

Webb will win a medal at the games. Im guaranteeing it. sig it if you wish so you have proof later, but webb shall win a medal. for the first time, 2 americans will be on the podium in the 1500.

I agree with you.

[trackz]

i really think that sherer has a legitimate chance of making the team. he has a good chance as jennings or lukezic. but he'll prolly end up 5th or 6th in all likelihodd.

Yea, he was a coach at a school around the area here. I've seen him run a few times, he just "came out of nowhere" in February to run that 3:56. Then that 3:36 was pretty impressive last month. I think he has a legit shot, along with Jennings and Lukezic like you said. You never know, the Trials are full of surprises (I mean, look at Begley, Smith, Nelson..).

[IceJelly]

I agree with you.

Webb is not going to medal. He is way too inconsistent.

Furthermore, if he makes the Olympic team he has to race through two preliminary rounds to make it to the 1500m finals. The only way I can see him getting through those is if he goes all out and takes the lead, because he certainly cannot chill and kick at the end like Lagat. This will end up hurting Webb in the finals since he will not be as fresh as others (like Lagat)

What I am trying to say is that because Webb is not able to sit and kick his way through the preliminary rounds he will tire himself out a lot more. Webb does not do good in tactical races.

I predict Webb will perform like he did at the world championships last year.

[drewconstantine]

Webb is not going to medal. He is way too inconsistent.

Furthermore, if he makes the Olympic team he has to race through two preliminary rounds to make it to the 1500m finals. The only way I can see him getting through those is if he goes all out and takes the lead, because he certainly cannot chill and kick at the end like Lagat. This will end up hurting Webb in the finals since he will not be as fresh as others (like Lagat)

What I am trying to say is that because Webb is not able to sit and kick his way through the preliminary rounds he will tire himself out a lot more. Webb does not do good in tactical races.

I predict Webb will perform like he did at the world championships last year.

I think if Webb makes the team tonight, he will win the gold medal. I also think he was the best miler in the world last year and just peaked too early. He has made a big gamble by starting to race so late in the season this year. But if he can just slide by the trials, I think he can time himself to peak perfectly for the Olympics because he purposely has held himself back a little bit to avoid burnout.

[maverick]

I think if Webb makes the team tonight, he will win the gold medal. I also think he was the best miler in the world last year and just peaked too early. He has made a big gamble by starting to race so late in the season this year. But if he can just slide by the trials, I think he can time himself to peak perfectly for the Olympics because he purposely has held himself back a little bit to avoid burnout.

that is an awfully big statement to make, and i suspect it will be a foolish one.

[drewconstantine]

that is an awfully big statement to make, and i suspect it will be a foolish one.

Rather than be conservative, I think its more fun to lay it on the line and make a real prediction. Cautious speculation can be so lame sometimes. Obviously, if he blows the trials its not gonna happen. Like I said, I think he's made a big gamble starting so late. However, I really believe if he makes the team he's got a good chance at winning, simply because he's trying very hard not to repeat his mistakes at Worlds which was basically getting too hot, too early.

[maverick]

Rather than be conservative, I think its more fun to lay it on the line and make a real prediction. Cautious speculation can be so lame sometimes. Obviously, if he blows the trials its not gonna happen. Like I said, I think he's made a big gamble starting so late. However, I really believe if he makes the team he's got a good chance at winning, simply because he's trying very hard not to repeat his mistakes at Worlds which was basically getting too hot, too early.

if the olympics were determined in a 1 round final i would say that webb has a very good chance. He has not proven himself to be a great runner of the rounds however, and i think that will cost him. I do expect him to better his worlds finish, and if he has a good day get in the 3 spot. I am thinking more of a 5th place though.

[drewconstantine]

if the olympics were determined in a 1 round final i would say that webb has a very good chance. He has not proven himself to be a great runner of the rounds however, and i think that will cost him. I do expect him to better his worlds finish, and if he has a good day get in the 3 spot. I am thinking more of a 5th place though.

I thought he ran great rounds at US nationals last year. He's proven he can do it. I think the rounds at worlds were more of a result of being too fast, too long. If he runs the Olympics like he did at nationals last year, top three at least. But first he's gotta make it, tonight will be fun or really frustrating.

[maverick]

I thought he ran great rounds at US nationals last year. He's proven he can do it. I think the rounds at worlds were more of a result of being too fast, too long. If he runs the Olympics like he did at nationals last year, top three at least. But first he's gotta make it, tonight will be fun or really frustrating.

US nationals is a completely different ball game then the olympics, you can not compare the 2 at all.

[Track Fan]

Why didn't Webb go with 300 left?!

[svc]

http://www.talk.dyestat.com/showthread.php?t=69123&highlight=webb+medal

just look at the poll results from that thread. It just shows that people on here as a whole (myself included) make too many quick judgments judging an athlete's (especially Webb) recent poor/good performances.

-Webb WILL medal in Osaka
-Centrowitz CAN break 4
-German WILL run sub 8:30

and now Webb won't make an Olympic team.

In hindsight.... :rolleyes:

[king99]

Webb could not go any faster from 300 out.

Every time he sped up Lomng shut him off by running faster on the outside of him, he was poorly positioned the whole way and moved around too much needlessly .

Actually what he really needs is a tactics/racing consultant.

He probably gets fit enough, although did not look it here, but his tactis have been suspect for a while. In talking to some guys who would know, their thoughts were that ,if he could have he should have just run a wire job 3:36.x if you get beat or not top 3 with that , so be it.

But it never played out, and I thought his absolute WORST chance was in a 3:40.00+ race for sure.

[Scotty]

Probably not a good idea to attempt a wire job in the Trials Final. There is no reason why a 1:43.8 and 3:46.9 guy (a year ago) could not run 3:41.00 and make the team. Running mid pack and moving hard at the bell should have been enough. In hindsight, that did not work. Webb is clearly a sub par racer. Still, it's difficult to explain this result.

My guess? Webb is not all that fit. Certainly less fit than I anticipated based upon his success last summer. A well conditioned Webb would have had little difficulty running 3:41flat, regardless of his position on the track.

[king99]

Scotty I agree with you but he was all over the track during the race wasting energy

the other thing when watching him that you cannot miss, is how excited or hyped up he appears to be before a race, jumping around etc.

I am wondering how much of the race he runs in the paddock before stepping out there.

I agree wire jobs are tough, but he runs his best clearly, unobstructed and out there, you probably eliminate all but three guys anyway running that time on that day at 3:36 , so maybe only one more place anyhow. So not that big a deal?

[Track Fan]

Webb is better if he goes at 300, he's not anywhere close to his top form so whatever.. he certainly wasn't going to beat everyone in a pure footrace the last 100 meters....

[sjm1368]

For what it's worth, I just got done talking to one of the best sprint coaches in the world who was at the trials. We were discussing Webb and he said that Webb looked completely different in terms of running form then he did last year. He also looked like he was stronger last year.

To paraphrase his thoughts:

"Hips were too level. He wasn’t covering ground or undulating any. He was trying to get his feet down underneath him but the only way he could was by leaning over at waist.

Someone must have been trying to change his form. They had the idea to get his feet underneath him, turnover, and get quick. But by doing so, he's e keeping everything level, not undulating. He's not coming off the ground. He ran very flat and thus couldn't change gears at all."


Just from watching the TV, he looked flat, but I thought it was an interesting analysis.

[NSHSDad]

What do you mean by "undulating"? Is this hip rotation (?)- horizontal with some vertical component to it? That typically engages the glutes more and allows a longer stride.

I'm surprised that anyone would deliberately drop a natural hip rotation. Maybe it's compensation for an injury?

I kinda agree with King that there's a kind of frenetic way he ran that seems to waste energy.

[dma1924]

For what it's worth, I just got done talking to one of the best sprint coaches in the world who was at the trials. We were discussing Webb and he said that Webb looked completely different in terms of running form then he did last year. He also looked like he was stronger last year.

To paraphrase his thoughts:

"Hips were too level. He wasn’t covering ground or undulating any. He was trying to get his feet down underneath him but the only way he could was by leaning over at waist.

Someone must have been trying to change his form. They had the idea to get his feet underneath him, turnover, and get quick. But by doing so, he's e keeping everything level, not undulating. He's not coming off the ground. He ran very flat and thus couldn't change gears at all."


Just from watching the TV, he looked flat, but I thought it was an interesting analysis.

Agreed. He looked very stiff and not at all bouncy and fluid compared to guys like Lagat, even Manzano. Those guys appear to be gliding once they start accelerating. Lomong isn't as smooth, but he has a powerful and forceful stride, while Webb's seems choppy and weak. I'm not very knowledgeable about form, but even to the casual observer, Webb's poor form was immediately apparent.

[Aneurysm]

Why didn't Webb go with 300 left?! why didnt you go with 300 to go when you felt like crap never mind that why didnt you go from the gun?

[Aneurysm]

Webb is better if he goes at 300, he's not anywhere close to his top form so whatever.. he certainly wasn't going to beat everyone in a pure footrace the last 100 meters....
would you say that last year when he won nats with a big kick. most likely you would

[Track Fan]

would you say that last year when he won nats with a big kick. most likely you would

he's a long kicker more than a sprinter kicker like Lagat at the end of the 1500.

[KKreme15]

he's a long kicker more than a sprinter kicker like Lagat at the end of the 1500.

if i recall correctly, his last 100 was something crazy like 11.1

[Jack McPhereson]

Alan Webb is a washed up child-star and accordingly should hangout with other washed up child stars, meet ur new posse Webb
http://www.unoriginal.co.uk/gallery/mugshots/Macaulay-Culkin.jpg
http://www.fresnobeehive.com/archives/upload/2007/04/coreys.jpg