Geneva ranked MW#1 boys and girls!!!

[greenman]

Boys:

1.Geneva (IL)
2.Neuqua Valley (IL)
3.York (IL)
4.St. Louis Univ (MO)
5.Carmel (IN)
6.Naperville No (IL)
7.Mason (OH)
8.Centerville (OH)
9.Pioneer (MI)
10.West Plains (MO)

Cut: Saline (MI) [7], Mentor (OH) [9], St. John Jesuit (OH) [10]

Bubble teams alphabetically: Ft. Wayne Carroll (IN), Heritage (MI), Kickapoo (MO), Lake Orion (MI), Lee’s Summit West (MO), Lyons Township (IL), McCutcheon (IN), Mentor (OH), North Central (IN), Palatine (IL), Parkway West (MO), St. Francis de Sales (OH), St. John Jesuit (OH), St. Ignatius (OH), Terre Haute No (IN), Twinsburg (OH)

Girls:

1.Geneva (IL)
2.Carmel (IN)
3.Lee’s Summit West (MO)
4.Ft. Wayne Carroll (IN)
5.Hinsdale Cent (IL)
6.Saline (MI)
7.Rockford (MI)
8.Cayuga Valley Christ (OH)
9.Palatine (IL)
10.Magnificat (OH)

Cut: Traverse City Central (MI) [6], Rochester Adams (MI) [7]

Bubble teams alphabetically: Benet (IL), Colerain (OH), Eureka (MO), Franklin Central (IN), Gaylord (MI), Grand Haven (MI), Jefferson City (MO), Kickapoo (MO), Lafayette (MO), Lake Central (IN), Lockport IL), Lyons Township (IL), Minster (OH), Naperville No (IL), Neuqua Valley (IL), Parkway Central (MO), Rochester (MI), Rochester Adams (MI), Traverse City Central (MI), Troy (MI), Valparaiso (IN), Washington (MO), West Plains (MO)

[Swoosh13]

Good to see top 3 all IL but that really makes no sense

[greenman]

I hope Centerville comes to Palatine like they did last year. They finished 7th and return their top 4 runners including the #2 individual returnee.

[watchout]

If Geneva stays that good ... the Midwest is even deeper than in past years, which was already too deep (on the guys side).

Missouri shouldn't have been moved from the HL. :( you're looking at 5-6 teams (if Geneva stays up there) that are NXN caliber.

[greenman]

If Geneva stays that good ... the Midwest is even deeper than in past years, which was already too deep (on the guys side).

Missouri shouldn't have been moved from the HL. :( you're looking at 5-6 teams (if Geneva stays up there) that are NXN caliber.They're definitely good, they got 9th at Regions last year and returned almost all of their guys.

I think what Swoosh was referring to is NV had some guys in the JV race that would've given them the win over Geneva at Peoria. Perhaps Dyestat was unaware of that.

I also believe that Lyons is a top 10 team.

EDIT: My mistake, Waubonsie took 9th, Geneva was 17th at Regions. I actually don't feel they should be ranked ahead of York or NV, but based on the actual results of the meets they would be ranked ahead.

[watchout]

They're definitely good, they got 9th at Regions last year and returned almost all of their guys.

I think what Swoosh was referring to is NV had some guys in the JV race that would've given them the win over Geneva at Peoria. Perhaps Dyestat was unaware of that.

I also believe that Lyons is a top 10 team.

EDIT: My mistake, Waubonsie took 9th, Geneva was 17th at Regions. I actually don't feel they should be ranked ahead of York or NV, but based on the actual results of the meets they would be ranked ahead.

Perhaps NXN was unaware of NV's situation, I figured something like that had happened (no offense to Geneva, but they haven't seemed like a top-10 US team before, while NV has already this year). I wasn't hugely impressed by the times Geneva put up, so I just assumed NV was either heavily training through or held some out, or the most extreme had the worst race of the season.

EDIT: Yup, if you merge the JV race with the varsity AAA race, NV would come out ahead 60-80.

[Swoosh13]

I'm sorry but there is no f*cking way that Geneva is the best team in the Midwest thats ridiculous

[RunRichard11311]

Ask yourself this: this year, is the best team in the Midwest Geneva? Don't look at stats or meets, just go by what you know. The answer then becomes an obvious no.

[watchout]

Ask yourself this: this year, is the best team in the Midwest Geneva? Don't look at stats or meets, just go by what you know. The answer then becomes an obvious no.

I disagree, their girls team has been phenomenal.

[RunRichard11311]

I disagree, their girls team has been phenomenal.

:o

[illinoisprepster]

Ask yourself this: this year, is the best team in the Midwest Geneva? Don't look at stats or meets, just go by what you know. The answer then becomes an obvious no.

Do explain yourself sir.

[maverick]

Do explain yourself sir.

i will do some explaining (not that i have an opinion one way or the other). If you take NV's top 7 from last saturday and you take the top 7 from geneva, NV wins 60-80 i believe (watchout can correct if i am wrong). Obviously geneva deserves enormous credit for beating NV at woodruff with the 7 runners that vandersteen felt were most capable to run varsity that day (based on the assumption that unless you wear green jerseys you do not travel 3 hours to run a jv squad).

[greenman]

The problem with Geneva is they don't have the depth of NV or York, and maybe not Naperville, Palatine or Lyons too. Not a criticism as much as a logistical fact.

If their top 5 runs very well, which they have done so far, then I feel they are top 3 in the region.

But Watchout is correct in wondering if they can keep doing that. They have less room for a subpar race than other teams.

[illinoisprepster]

i will do some explaining (not that i have an opinion one way or the other). If you take NV's top 7 from last saturday and you take the top 7 from geneva, NV wins 60-80 i believe (watchout can correct if i am wrong). Obviously geneva deserves enormous credit for beating NV at woodruff with the 7 runners that vandersteen felt were most capable to run varsity that day (based on the assumption that unless you wear green jerseys you do not travel 3 hours to run a jv squad).

Ok sir. I do understand. I thought you were talking about the Geneva Girls. Yeah, they are both ranked.

[Alowe007]

Ask yourself this: this year, is the best team in the Midwest Geneva? Don't look at stats or meets, just go by what you know. The answer then becomes an obvious no.

sorry but this just sounds idiotic. how can you go by anything except for stats and meets? what else matters? It doesn't matter if theoretically a team can run 6 under 15 if every meet they're running 16:30's
all that matters is what they have done in the meets

[DetroiterInIL]

I also believe that Lyons is a top 10 team.


Results from Peoria Notre Dame (huge invitational - 55 teams) shows:
1. Palatine
5 18 24 26 31 (53) (80) = 104
Bernardo, Bollman, Laskowske, Perez, Bethke, Larson, Baran
2. Sandburg
1 10 22 29 42 (99) (102) = 104
Dahleen, Hevel, McNicholas, Meyer, Tortorelli, O'Flaherty,
Koutavas
3. Lyons Township
6 15 35 36 44 (67) (96) = 136
Janusek, Hostettler, Telfer, Kucera, Moore, Holt, Keeler
4. York - B team
8 17 37 38 57 (66) (151) = 157
Schaht, Sanga, Way, Pollastrini, Lofferdo, Cecil, Ottenfeld

[DonkeyKongRunner]

Results from Peoria Notre Dame (huge invitational - 55 teams) shows:
1. Palatine
5 18 24 26 31 (53) (80) = 104
Bernardo, Bollman, Laskowske, Perez, Bethke, Larson, Baran
2. Sandburg
1 10 22 29 42 (99) (102) = 104
Dahleen, Hevel, McNicholas, Meyer, Tortorelli, O'Flaherty,
Koutavas
3. Lyons Township
6 15 35 36 44 (67) (96) = 136
Janusek, Hostettler, Telfer, Kucera, Moore, Holt, Keeler
4. York - B team
8 17 37 38 57 (66) (151) = 157
Schaht, Sanga, Way, Pollastrini, Lofferdo, Cecil, Ottenfeld
lyons wasn't in there and they are missing one more stud, i wonder waht happened.

[Fast4]

Results from Peoria Notre Dame (huge invitational - 55 teams) shows:
1. Palatine
5 18 24 26 31 (53) (80) = 104
Bernardo, Bollman, Laskowske, Perez, Bethke, Larson, Baran
2. Sandburg
1 10 22 29 42 (99) (102) = 104
Dahleen, Hevel, McNicholas, Meyer, Tortorelli, O'Flaherty,
Koutavas
3. Lyons Township
6 15 35 36 44 (67) (96) = 136
Janusek, Hostettler, Telfer, Kucera, Moore, Holt, Keeler
4. York - B team
8 17 37 38 57 (66) (151) = 157
Schaht, Sanga, Way, Pollastrini, Lofferdo, Cecil, Ottenfeld

What I find particularly funny is that York got dropped to 3rd in the region. Looking at this meet, putting Sulkin and Herbert into the meet would drop their team score by easily 90pts. (replace 38-57 with 1-4 or better) So York would win 67-104 with Cecil running like garbage and a boatload of other potential top 7 guys not running. At the Lyons dual meet A. Smith (think its Alex) beat Sangha by 13 seconds. I figure him for 15:25 or better at PND. And who really knows what Jack Driggs is up to. He may follow Sulkin and Achtien by running at the sophomore level until the state series. York runs their full team at PND and they conservatively finish 1-3-10-15-19 and score 48pts. How can anyone with the information at hand not be able to evaluate the facts and come to this very conclusion. Figuring out the Geneva is the best team in the Midwest just seems like a stretch to me. I mean, if you load up the York and NV teams would Geneva beat them?? really?? really??

[Emes4realz]

And who really knows what Jack Driggs is up to.

2008 Notre Dame Invitational
Boys Frosh-Soph Results.

Team
Place Plc Name School Name Time Pace
===== ==== ============================= ========================= ===== =====
1. 1 James Clay University High 15:28 5:10
2. 2 Sinadinos Nick Lincoln-Way East 15:42 5:14
3. 3 Keenan Havey Wheaton Warrenville South 15:42 5:14
4. 4 Jack Driggs York 15:47 5:16
5. 5 Eunhwan Yoo Oak Park River Forest 15:48 5:16

[maverick]

What I find particularly funny is that York got dropped to 3rd in the region. Looking at this meet, putting Sulkin and Herbert into the meet would drop their team score by easily 90pts. (replace 38-57 with 1-4 or better) So York would win 67-104 with Cecil running like garbage and a boatload of other potential top 7 guys not running. At the Lyons dual meet A. Smith (think its Alex) beat Sangha by 13 seconds. I figure him for 15:25 or better at PND. And who really knows what Jack Driggs is up to. He may follow Sulkin and Achtien by running at the sophomore level until the state series. York runs their full team at PND and they conservatively finish 1-3-10-15-19 and score 48pts. How can anyone with the information at hand not be able to evaluate the facts and come to this very conclusion. Figuring out the Geneva is the best team in the Midwest just seems like a stretch to me. I mean, if you load up the York and NV teams would Geneva beat them?? really?? really??

well keep in mind that none of the big 4 teams were here in full. Since it seems to be clearly those 4 and then everyone else, it is not surprising that york would have rolled this meet with their full team.

[Run4YOURlife]

point is... geneva is still a joke ;)

[maverick]

point is... geneva is still a joke ;)

no

[greenman]

We'll see how the next rankings look because Geneva girls were beaten by Benet yesterday by 3 points (Tauscher of Geneva didn't run). The boys beat D-C by 12 points but didn't run their #2 and #3 runners.

[maverick]

We'll see how the next rankings look because Geneva girls were beaten by Benet yesterday by 3 points (Tauscher of Geneva didn't run). The boys beat D-C by 12 points but didn't run their #2 and #3 runners.

benet will clearly be #1 in the region and D-C will climb to about #6 or 7 ;)

[Alowe007]

We'll see how the next rankings look because Geneva girls were beaten by Benet yesterday by 3 points (Tauscher of Geneva didn't run). The boys beat D-C by 12 points but didn't run their #2 and #3 runners.

Geneva didn't run more than just Tauscher. If I remember right it was only 2 or 3 of their top 7.

[KCSPEED]

Geneva didn't run their best runners on the girls or boys varsity teams. They rested many in their top 7.

Is this the first time one coach has had both a girls and boys team ranked #1 at the same time on a national ranking list?

[Spiderman09]

We'll see how the next rankings look because Geneva girls were beaten by Benet yesterday by 3 points (Tauscher of Geneva didn't run). The boys beat D-C by 12 points but didn't run their #2 and #3 runners.

Geneva girls were actually without four of their normal top seven.

[maverick]

Geneva didn't run their best runners on the girls or boys varsity teams. They rested many in their top 7.

Is this the first time one coach has had both a girls and boys team ranked #1 at the same time on a national ranking list?

saratoga had to be pretty close a couple of years ago.

[greenman]

lyons wasn't in there and they are missing one more stud, i wonder waht happened.Lyons also didn't run in the dual, but the rest of the team from the dual meet was intact. It looks like they ran badly....it seems like LT never runs well at Detweiller for some reason.

What I find particularly funny is that York got dropped to 3rd in the region. Looking at this meet, putting Sulkin and Herbert into the meet would drop their team score by easily 90pts. (replace 38-57 with 1-4 or better) So York would win 67-104 with Cecil running like garbage and a boatload of other potential top 7 guys not running. At the Lyons dual meet A. Smith (think its Alex) beat Sangha by 13 seconds. I figure him for 15:25 or better at PND. And who really knows what Jack Driggs is up to. He may follow Sulkin and Achtien by running at the sophomore level until the state series. York runs their full team at PND and they conservatively finish 1-3-10-15-19 and score 48pts. How can anyone with the information at hand not be able to evaluate the facts and come to this very conclusion. Figuring out the Geneva is the best team in the Midwest just seems like a stretch to me. I mean, if you load up the York and NV teams would Geneva beat them?? really?? really??You have to remember that the rankings came out before this meet, they only had York's dual meet with LT to go on. But they didn't figure in NV's times from the JV race and I think they should have.

York held out their 1-2-4 runners from the dual meet, everyone else ran this meet. Sangha made a huge turn around on LT's 2-3-4 positions from the dual, going from 33, 9 and 7 seconds behind to 2 seconds behind their #2 and 14 seconds ahead of their 3-4. He picked up about 5 seconds on Schact.

[maverick]

Lyons also didn't run in the dual, but the rest of the team from the dual meet was intact. It looks like they ran badly....it seems like LT never runs well at Detweiller for some reason.


2002 state meet sticks out to me as a perfect illustration of this.

[huskies]

Geneva didn't run their best runners on the girls or boys varsity teams. They rested many in their top 7.

Is this the first time one coach has had both a girls and boys team ranked #1 at the same time on a national ranking list?

That will be short lived

Woodruff was hardly a highly competitive invite with NV's strange lineup and the course condition - put more top teams in race and the #5 runner will add big points to Geneva's team score

No way you jump Geneva which has very little depth ahead of York, NV and NN based on one bad race by NV

Probably a blessing NV lost early in year at a minor invite, NV is not as dominant as last and needs strong 4-7 performances which they did not get, but they will rebound - would put them as big favorite over Geneva at Sectionals and State when it counts.

[greenman]

Geneva didn't run more than just Tauscher. If I remember right it was only 2 or 3 of their top 7.Upon further review, the other girl of significance was Ehrhardt, other than those 2 they ran 4 of the 7 runners that ran at Peoria and 3 of the top 5. So if you're talking about scoring runners, they didn't run 2 of them, I missed one of the girls. Their #6 at Peoria was 41st, I place her just outside of Benet's top 5.

Geneva didn't run their best runners on the girls or boys varsity teams. They rested many in their top 7.


The only two I see on the boys were Sparks and Adelman, the rest was the same lineup as Peoria.

Geneva girls were actually without four of their normal top seven.See above response to ALowe.

Both teams obviously ran shorthanded, but the point is what do you do with the rankings?

[010]

What I find particularly funny is that York got dropped to 3rd in the region. Looking at this meet, putting Sulkin and Herbert into the meet would drop their team score by easily 90pts. (replace 38-57 with 1-4 or better) So York would win 67-104 with Cecil running like garbage and a boatload of other potential top 7 guys not running. At the Lyons dual meet A. Smith (think its Alex) beat Sangha by 13 seconds. I figure him for 15:25 or better at PND. And who really knows what Jack Driggs is up to. He may follow Sulkin and Achtien by running at the sophomore level until the state series. York runs their full team at PND and they conservatively finish 1-3-10-15-19 and score 48pts. How can anyone with the information at hand not be able to evaluate the facts and come to this very conclusion. Figuring out the Geneva is the best team in the Midwest just seems like a stretch to me. I mean, if you load up the York and NV teams would Geneva beat them?? really?? really??

PND happened yesterday... the rankings came out before any York results were even known. The logic used had to be they thought NV was first before Woodruff, and Geneva beat them.

One thing I find interesting (this has nothing to do with rankings) is that Neuqua has more then twice the students that Geneva has, but Neuqua gets so much more respect then Geneva even after Woodruff by some people on these boards.

[huskies]

PND happened yesterday... the rankings came out before any York results were even known. The logic used had to be they thought NV was first before Woodruff, and Geneva beat them.

One thing I find interesting (this has nothing to do with rankings) is that Neuqua has more then twice the students that Geneva has, but Neuqua gets so much more respect then Geneva even after Woodruff by some people on these boards.

Jumping a team from Bubble status to #1 based on a single win over 9 other ranked teams in a single week is somewhat unusual

[010]

Jumping a team from Bubble status to #1 based on a single win over 9 other ranked teams in a single week is somewhat unusual

Agreed.