Sub 9:00 -two Mile Run By A Li Schoolboy

[SEAURCHIN]

Does anyone know which Long Island runners have broken 9:00 for the 2-mile run? I know that John Gregorek from St. Anthony's ran 8:50.4, and my friend Tom Grimes from North Shore ran 8:58.6 at the Penn Relays in 1977. Any others? By the way, in that Penn Relays 2-mile, quite a stellar field was assembled. John Tuttle (a future olympic steeplechaser) from Alfred-Almond won the race in 8:57 and change. Tom Grimes was 2nd, Tom Camien-3rd(9:00
flat) and junior John Gregorek was fourth in 9:02 and change. What a race. By the way, Gregorek and Grimes later went on to Georgetown University

[Armstrong23]

Mark Alizzi from Syosset broke 9:00 in the 2mile two years ago at Arcadia. It was by far the best 2mile field ever assembeled, there were like nine guys under 9.

[tach44444]

Mark Alizzi from Syosset broke 9:00 in the 2mile two years ago at Arcadia. It was by far the best 2mile field ever assembeled, there were like nine guys under 9.


11 Alizzi, Mark 12 Syosset High 8:59.63

it was actually a 3200 and wen u convert that to full 2 mile time, its over 9:00. so he broke 9 for 3200m, but not 2 miles. that meet was in 2003 foir the record, wen solinsky ran 8:43. wat a monster.

[SEAURCHIN]

I still think that Gregorek & Grimes are the only runners under 9:00, however,
I think Dan Middleman from Clarke and TJ McArdle from Garden City may have run 3200 equivalents under 9:00 for the 2-mile. Anybody have any info?

[Kalaby]

As far as I know, Middleman and McArdle back in 1987 became the only other two LI high school runners to break 9:00 for the deuce, albeit on a conversion from the 3200.

Dalpiaz is within a few tenths on the 3200 conversion and as mentioned above Alizzi also came pretty close. Millioen is also a few ticks over 9, but that's based on a 3000 conversion. Tschirhart is already knocking on the door and he will hopefully have a few cracks at ducking under the 9 minute barrier this spring. Looking ahead, one would think that Sheridan stands a good chance over the next two years once he gets healthy again and maybe Charles White down the road as well.

[Kalaby]

At the '87 NYS Outdoor Champs, Middleman went 8:52.6 for the win with McArdle taking second in 8:55.2. Bump those times up by ~3.2 seconds for the 2 mile conversion.

[SEAURCHIN]

Thank You For The Research Kalaby

[Kalaby]

Thank You For The Research Kalaby

My pleasure. I ran with McArdle, who was a couple of years older than me, in the NYC/LI age-group programs back in the late 70s-early 80s. Kid was a beast, particularly at XC.

[SEAURCHIN]

Garden City H.S. has produced an abundance of talented distance runners over the years. TJ McArdle, Brian Quinn, Marty Brown, David Beck, etc. However, the most unsung was Jim Flynn. I had the pleasure of running against him in high school. He was an all-county x-c runner his senior year-he just edged me out in the Nassau County Cross Country Championships at Eisenhower Park. He took off the winter to play basketball and then came out in the spring and ran a 4:18 mile! He later went on to run at Villanova and ran with such notables as Sydney Maree, Amos Korir, etc. He ran a 3:44-1500 meter. After college, he remained in the Garden City area and won the local Turkey Trot many times. He currently resides in Ireland--one helluva guy! From what I see today, Charles White is going to be another tough customer.
Speaks volumes about Garden City's tradition for producing great distance runners.

[PeterQuince]

Garden City H.S. has produced an abundance of talented distance runners over the years.
Speaks volumes about Garden City's tradition for producing great distance runners.

Very true. Garden City has a great tradition of excellence for producing distance runners.

But does it seem like (at least recently) that teams just don't seem to develop as well there? I'm not knocking the coaches or the program, just asking if anyone (Charles included) has any insight. When I was a freshman GC had a decent cross-country team but by track season it was the one-man Frank Moore show and, while he was fast, he wasn't even home-grown.

Possible too is that I am naive to GC teams of old. Is this the case?

[crazyrunner]

do we quickly forget the new NYS 2 mile record holder McDougal? By the by Charlie's time converted to just under 9 from what i remember

[SEAURCHIN]

It seems as though you may have hit the nail right on the head. Through the years, Garden City H.S. has always produced one or two great distance runners from decade to decade, but never has the depth that some other schools always seem to have. However, I really don't know why. I will send an e-mail to my friend Marty Brown (an ex-Garden City alum, stand-out runner, and current coach of the girl's track team at Kellenberg) to see if he can give me any insight.

[SEAURCHIN]

True-Josh McDougal broke 9:00 for the deuce, however, he wasn't a LI runner.

[Kalaby]

do we quickly forget the new NYS 2 mile record holder McDougal? By the by Charlie's time converted to just under 9 from what i remember

Limiting the list to LI kids only.

Millioen went 8:21.04 for the 3000. It's always tricky using different conversion factors/tables, particularly for a fairly large gap like there is between the 3000 meters and the deuce. At any rate, most would say that Millioen's 3k time leaves him just short of sub 9 on the full deuce conversion.

[Scotty]

Milleon's 3k is over 9:00 for 2m, as are the 8:57pts by Dalpiaz and HDV. Alizzi's time is significantly over on the conversion.

Looks like Johnny G, Grimes, Middleman and McArdle are the only LI guys under 9:00y.

(Add 3.1 sec to the 3200 times around 9:00)

[coachb]

I could go on about the program and its' past I only heard the stories of two bus loads for dual meets in the 70's As for today we have only about 35-40 students come out for a team that has to field many events also with jv b teams in other sports it makes it difficult to cover all the events As for the frank moore show his senior yr the 4x4 was second at the state meet in class b and 3 out of the four on that team went to Raliegh for the mile med and got 11th

[soul126@aol.com]

i think everyone is forgetting about hakon devries from john jay who runs the two mile in 8 57 around and has been one of the top athletes in new york ever and now is at stanford university

[Scotty]

As already mentioned, Hakon's 8:57.99 converts to just over 9:01 for 2miles

[Kalaby]

As already mentioned, Hakon's 8:57.99 converts to just over 9:01 for 2miles


...and he's not from LI, so for the purposes of this thread, he's not even on the radar screen to begin with.

[Scotty]

You are correct, though I do not know exactly where John Jay is.

[PeterQuince]

East Fishkill. Dutchess County (Section I). Where within Dutchess County I do not know, but it's Hudson Valley area.

[crazyrunner]

sorry about that i forgot about the fact it was strictly LI... wasn't Krause there or at least really close.. or Hogan?

[Kalaby]

sorry about that i forgot about the fact it was strictly LI... wasn't Krause there or at least really close.. or Hogan?


Surprisingly not really that close for either; both in the 9:05-9:10 range for meters from what I recall.

[tbuff]

Does anybody know what Jim Shields ran for 2 miles, he ran the 3k steeple (against Gregorek) in 8:50.7 but I can't find him on the outdoor 2-mile list.

[SEAURCHIN]

From what I recollect, Jim Shields did not run for Chaminade High School for the outdoor season in 1975. There was an incident during the 1974-75 indoor season, for which he got disciplined, and was unable to compete outdoors. However, he did compete for the former LIAC (Long Island Athletic Club) outdoors, and I think he actually ran around an 8:52 for the 3,000 meter steeplechase. I believe he actually had the national record until Jeff Hess from Oregon broke it. As far as the 2-mile goes, I think the best time he ever ran was around 9:12, and he may have achieved that mark indoors. Jim Shields was a tough competitor!! I'm sure he would have broken 9:00 in the 2 mile run if he was able to compete for Chaminade in that 1975 outdoor season.

[bridge13]

Twenty boys from New York have broken the equivalent of 9:00 for 3200. Which of their schools are LI ?

home schooled, Peru
St. Anthony's, Smithtown
O'Neill, Highland Falls
Clarke, Westbury
Power Memorial, New York
Alfred-Almond, Almond
Central, Penfield
Garden City, Garden City
North Shore, Glen Head
Sewanhaka, Floral Park
Sayville, Sayville
John Jay, Hopewell Junction
Middletown, Middletown
Iona Prep, New Rochelle
Suffern, Suffern
Monroe-Woodbury, Central Valley
Syosset, Syosset
Valley Central, Montgomery
Rice, New York
Hornell, Hornell

[palimmer]

[QUOTE=bridge13]Twenty boys from New York have broken the equivalent of 9:00 for 3200. Which of their schools are LI ?


St. Anthony's, Smithtown
Clarke, Westbury
Garden City, Garden City
North Shore, Glen Head
Sewanhaka, Floral Park
Sayville, Sayville
Syosset, Syosset

[bridge13]

this is the LI all-time 2 mile list

#1 8:50.7 John Gregorek, St. Anthony's, Smithtown, CHSAA Intersectional Champs 1st, 5/27/1978
#2 8:55.87c Dan Middleman, Clarke, Westbury, State meet 1st 8:52.75 3200, 6/6/1987
#3 8:58.55c T.J. McArdle, Garden City, Garden City, State meet 2nd 8:55.42 3200, 6/6/1987
#4 8:58.6 Tom Grimes, North Shore, Glen Head, Penn Relays 2nd, 4/29/1977
#5 9:00.2 Tom Camien, Sewanhaka, Floral Park, Penn Relays 3rd, 4/29/1977
#6 9:00.38c Brian Dalpiaz, Sayville, Sayville, Golden West (CA) 3rd 8:57.24 3200, 6/8/2002
#7 9:02.79c Mark Alizzi, Syosset, Syosset, Arcadia (CA) 11th 8:59.63 3200, 4/12/2003

[Achilles]

this is the LI all-time 2 mile list

#1 8:50.7 John Gregorek, St. Anthony's, Smithtown, CHSAA Intersectional Champs 1st, 5/27/1978
#2 8:55.87c Dan Middleman, Clarke, Westbury, State meet 1st 8:52.75 3200, 6/6/1987
#3 8:58.55c T.J. McArdle, Garden City, Garden City, State meet 2nd 8:55.42 3200, 6/6/1987
#4 8:58.6 Tom Grimes, North Shore, Glen Head, Penn Relays 2nd, 4/29/1977
#5 9:00.2 Tom Camien, Sewanhaka, Floral Park, Penn Relays 3rd, 4/29/1977
#6 9:00.38c Brian Dalpiaz, Sayville, Sayville, Golden West (CA) 3rd 8:57.24 3200, 6/8/2002
#7 9:02.79c Mark Alizzi, Syosset, Syosset, Arcadia (CA) 11th 8:59.63 3200, 4/12/2003

dalpiaz' junior year at golden west if someone took that race out semi fast at least we would have one more on the list. he took off after a few laps and put a huge lead on people but couldnt kick the last 400 as fast as he would have wanted. he was sub 9 easy that day

but he didnt do it so it doesnt count. i know ti sounds like woulda coulda shoulda king. just my opinion on the guy.

btw he also ran 9:01 at nationals the week after in a very tactical race

[Kalaby]

From what I recollect, Jim Shields did not run for Chaminade High School for the outdoor season in 1975. There was an incident during the 1974-75 indoor season, for which he got disciplined, and was unable to compete outdoors. However, he did compete for the former LIAC (Long Island Athletic Club) outdoors, and I think he actually ran around an 8:52 for the 3,000 meter steeplechase. I believe he actually had the national record until Jeff Hess from Oregon broke it. As far as the 2-mile goes, I think the best time he ever ran was around 9:12, and he may have achieved that mark indoors. Jim Shields was a tough competitor!! I'm sure he would have broken 9:00 in the 2 mile run if he was able to compete for Chaminade in that 1975 outdoor season.


Shields was a 1976 graduate. I've always heard that his suspension was related to stealing a team school bus.

[Scotty]

dalpiaz' junior year at golden west if someone took that race out semi fast at least we would have one more on the list. he took off after a few laps and put a huge lead on people but couldnt kick the last 400 as fast as he would have wanted. he was sub 9 easy that day

but he didnt do it so it doesnt count. i know ti sounds like woulda coulda shoulda king. just my opinion on the guy.

btw he also ran 9:01 at nationals the week after in a very tactical race

Dalpiaz was a great runner, and was remarkably consistent in HS. However, he ran the 2m/3200 event MANY times and never got under 9:00y (even converted). It is what it is. Same goes for Hakon DeVries (another guy I loved to watch), who went 8:57.99m (9:01y). Going under 9 for the full duece is tough.

[Achilles]

Dalpiaz was a great runner, and was remarkably consistent in HS. However, he ran the 2m/3200 event MANY times and never got under 9:00y (even converted). It is what it is. Same goes for Hakon DeVries (another guy I loved to watch), who went 8:57.99m (9:01y). Going under 9 for the full duece is tough.

agree 100% on everything. but (i know its a woulda coulda shoulda and hopefully king will agree even tho it is what it is) but if Hakon lays back at AOC and doesnt go after McDougal and kiptoo mid race i see him breaking 9 pretty comfortably.

at golden west that year dalpiaz did almost the same thing. he ran a really fast 3rd 800 (like 2:11 or something i think) and broke the race open until the last lap when gomez threw down a 59 or something to win by a lot. if dalpiaz didnt get the apendectomy and ran arcadia with solinsky and company...i see a definate sub 9 full 2 mile

i can totally completly understand if you dont agree because the fact of the matter is neither of them did it. but under slightly different circumstances/different racing tactics in hakons case (i applaud him for going for it like he did) than we could add 1 more to this specific list and 2 more to the staet wide list

[Scotty]

Ya never know...its all spec. They may have run faster. Maybe slower. In the end, the list is the list. That's what makes this sport so great.....you have to get by all the obstacles actually lay down the time.

I have always said this, if everyone managed to run what they are "capable of", then 4:10 and 9:00 would not be nearly so impressive. We would instead treat 4:07/8:54 as marks of greatness. The fact that it is very difficult to break 9:00y (Dalpiaz and HDV never did it) is why we hold those guys under the mark in such high esteem.

[king99]

Hakon, one of my favorites too, but not sure it looks any different no matter how he goes in that race, not sure in hindsight he was sub 9 right. Sub 9 is ougher than you think , otherwise like Scotty said ..many more would do it.He did not improve on his indoor 1600 split chasing at penn and AOC, so it is what it is.