Hemoglobin

[werner]

Hemoglobin is, as I'm sure most everyone knows, the protein used to attach oxygen to the blood.

Are iron supplements the best way to legally increase hemoglobin counts (not including time spent training at altitude, of course)?

Are there other ways to increase one's hemoglobin levels? Would taking complete amino acid supplements help?

[Trish the RD]

This is a great question. Iron is a structural component of hemoglobin and myoglobin, which are proteins responsible for iron transport and storage. Low levels of iron in your blood (iron deficiency and iron deficiency anemia) can lead to poor performance since this mineral is directly involved with aerobic function. Iron supplements can help if you have anemia, but can be harmful if over done. More is not better in this case. By taking in foods high in iron, such as red meat, dark poultry, pork, fish and shell fish, and eggs, you can naturally and legally optimize your storage of iron from foods.

Vitamin C improves the absorption of non-heme iron sources, such as dried fruits, leafy green veggies, whole grains and fortified cereals. So have a glass of OJ with your morning cereal to boost the absorption.

Tea and coffee contain compounds, called polyphenols, which can bind with iron making it harder for our bodies to absorb it, so cutting down on tea and coffee could help to improve iron levels in the body as well.

Amino acids can not help with building hemoglobin, they are only the building blocks of protein and do not contain any iron.

If anyone is concerned that may be anemic, they should be evaluated by a physician before starting any high dose supplementation programs. A serum ferritin level should be included in the test. Athletes can generally be considered deficient if ferritin levels are less than 30 ug/L.

Symptoms of anemia are:
Fatigue during exercise
Feeling out of breath
Poor concentration
Increased frequency of illness
Feeling cold more frequently than usual

I hope this helps!

Trish

[Tiocfaidh Ar La]

Vitamin C improves the absorption of non-heme iron sources, such as dried fruits, leafy green veggies, whole grains and fortified cereals. So have a glass of OJ with your morning cereal to boost the absorption.

This makes sense as long as one is not drinking fortified OJ and as long as one consumes their cereal without milk, as calcium and iron compete for absorption. A point not to be overlooked.


Athletes can generally be considered deficient if ferritin levels are less than 30 ug/L.


While this may be considered the threshold for normal individuals, if you are a male endurance athlete and your ferritin is below 50 you are in trouble.

[Demon Runner]

as calcium and iron compete for absorption. A point not to be overlooked.
confirm/deny anyone? Although if it's true, i can still be happy because eating a serving of frosties mini-wheats (big bite) gives you 80% your DV of iron and it's easier to eat them out of the box

[Alex Adkinson]

Good thread, so what if I train at altitude and take iron!?

[thugginrunnin06]

confirm/deny anyone? Although if it's true, i can still be happy because eating a serving of frosties mini-wheats (big bite) gives you 80% your DV of iron and it's easier to eat them out of the box

Confirm.

As someone who's been iron deficient twice, I know the drill.

[Tiocfaidh Ar La]

Good thread, so what if I train at altitude and take iron!?

You're doing the right thing. At altitude your body wants to make more hemoglobin. You are losing iron via hemolysis (crushing RBCs in your feet when you run and also due to muscular contractions), sweating, urinating, etc. and since you are in college your diet probably sucks. Your body wants eleven dollar bills but you only got ten. To meet these demands you should be supplementing, even if your levels are normal to begin with. Don't wait until you're anemic.

Yes, there is a (very small) chance of iron toxicity. The risks are usually blown out of proportion by people who don't understand distance running. If you are taking a supplement once a day and running the chances are almost nil anything is going to happen, barring a genetic predisposition. To put it in perspective, right now your ferritin is probably 70-100. It would need to get up to 1000 before permanent organ damage started to occur. Get your levels checked every couple months to keep tabs on where you are at (high or low) and you should be fine.

[sjm1368]

While this may be considered the threshold for normal individuals, if you are a male endurance athlete and your ferritin is below 50 you are in trouble.

Ferritin levels are very individual. Some athletes will be perfectly fine and normal with levels as low as 20. Others will be deficient at higher levels.

[werner]

Is anybody else noticing that the RD strayed 100% off topic in the very first response?

I know what anemia is (in fact there is a thread about anemia within this forum that has been ignored), however I would like to know if I can increase my hemoglobin levels legally. Obviously I could start taking EPO, but that is not exactly a legal option.

[HINKLO]

Is anybody else noticing that the RD strayed 100% off topic in the very first response?

I know what anemia is (in fact there is a thread about anemia within this forum that has been ignored), however I would like to know if I can increase my hemoglobin levels legally. Obviously I could start taking EPO, but that is not exactly a legal option.

Simply put...not by increasing your intake of iron unless you're already. deficient. On the contrary, too much iron can cause you some major issues.

[sjm1368]

I know what anemia is (in fact there is a thread about anemia within this forum that has been ignored), however I would like to know if I can increase my hemoglobin levels legally. Obviously I could start taking EPO, but that is not exactly a legal option.

No, there's nothing you can take to legally to increase Hgb levels.

Training will. going to alitude will.

But really, why are you even worrying about that? Increasing Hgb isn't necessarily going to improve performance. Anyways, it's just one of many many things that could/can improve performance.

[HINKLO]

But really, why are you even worrying about that? Increasing Hgb isn't necessarily going to improve performance. Anyways, it's just one of many many things that could/can improve performance.

Truth...being able to carry more oxygen doesn't mean diddly if your muscles don't know how to use it.

[XC pwns]

Confirm.

As someone who's been iron deficient twice, I know the drill.

Ditto.

[werner]

No, there's nothing you can take to legally to increase Hgb levels.

Training will. going to alitude will.

But really, why are you even worrying about that? Increasing Hgb isn't necessarily going to improve performance. Anyways, it's just one of many many things that could/can improve performance.It was just a question that popped into my mind during Biology the other day, and it wasn't an appropriate instance to interrupt the professor and ask, so I came on here to ask instead.

Knowledge is power, amirite?

[XC pwns]

Actually I think I remember reading something about red wine having something in it that acted like EPO. But you would have to basically drink yourself to death to see any results. I could be just making this up.

[sjm1368]

Nope, you aren't making it up.

It's called Resveratrol. The study you're referring to was on mice. They gave the mice a crap load of it and their endurance improved a lot.

But like you said, it would be impossible to take such a high dose in humans.

[Alex Adkinson]

Nope, you aren't making it up.

It's called Resveratrol. The study you're referring to was on mice. They gave the mice a crap load of it and their endurance improved a lot.

But like you said, it would be impossible to take such a high dose in humans.

They have pills.

[sjm1368]

The pills are no where near the amount used in the study either.

Plus, it was in mice, so they don't know if it will translate.

[pmeyers279]

if it did translate i have a feeling that it would be a banned substance in track and field pretty damn quickly.

[GeorgieTheK]

No, there's nothing you can take to legally to increase Hgb levels.

Training will. going to alitude will.

But really, why are you even worrying about that? Increasing Hgb isn't necessarily going to improve performance. Anyways, it's just one of many many things that could/can improve performance.


There is one thing you can take to increase hemoglobin:

Smoking.

But I don't recommend it.

[Alex Adkinson]

The pills are no where near the amount used in the study either.

Plus, it was in mice, so they don't know if it will translate.

if it did translate i have a feeling that it would be a banned substance in track and field pretty damn quickly.

Well I am pretty sure resveratrol is the stuff in red wine and grapes that is good for the heart, so if the little you get from wine helps out im sure the pills are going to do something good. Plus it is an antioxidant.

[Trish the RD]

There is some great input here. Also good point about calcium inhibiting iron absorption, but I still would not hold the milk on my cereal. It is a relatively weak effect, and there are so many athletes that do not get in adequate calcium and vitamin D. Look for research by Hurrell 1997, Reddy and Cook 1997, Grinder-Pederson et al 2004.

Another point is that iron supplementation can induce deficiencies of zinc and copper as well as being a problem for that rare blood disease, hemochromotosis.

If you are looking for a legal way to blood dope, I have not heard of one.
You can enhance your iron supply by making better food choices, and if all else fails, work with a medical professional and supplement. If altitude training is feasible for you, go for it.

If you do supplement calcium and iron, spread apart the timing as much as you can.




I think reversitol should be a new thread, interesting topic.

[RunRichard11311]

There is some great input here. Also good point about calcium inhibiting iron absorption, but I still would not hold the milk on my cereal. It is a relatively weak effect, and there are so many athletes that do not get in adequate calcium and vitamin D. Look for research by Hurrell 1997, Reddy and Cook 1997, Grinder-Pederson et al 2004.

Another point is that iron supplementation can induce deficiencies of zinc and copper as well as being a problem for that rare blood disease, hemochromotosis.

If you are looking for a legal way to blood dope, I have not heard of one.
You can enhance your iron supply by making better food choices, and if all else fails, work with a medical professional and supplement. If altitude training is feasible for you, go for it.

If you do supplement calcium and iron, spread apart the timing as much as you can.

Vitamins are also great sources for iron (and for calcium too, if taken separately).

[werner]

Vitamins are also great sources for iron (and for calcium too, if taken separately).How separate is "separately"?

Different meals? Alternating days? What's the deal?

[HINKLO]

How separate is "separately"?

Different meals? Alternating days? What's the deal?

If I'm not mistaken, they compete for absorption in your intestine. As long as they aren't mixed together it'll be fine. 2 hours is a pretty good baseline.

[thugginrunnin06]

Buy my daddy's products so I can get a cooler present for my 17th birthday!!

fixed. I think.

[Trish the RD]

2 hours seems reasonable to me for supplements, or...if you take both iron and calcium supplements, do calcium in the morning and iron at night, since iron could cause an upset stomach for some folks. I know it does for me!

Cheers!

Trish

[HINKLO]

2 hours seems reasonable to me for supplements, or...if you take both iron and calcium supplements, do calcium in the morning and iron at night, since iron could cause an upset stomach for some folks. I know it does for me!

Cheers!

Trish

Did you just cheers an upset stomach?

[Trish the RD]

Nice catch....

No, I did not intend to CHEERS an upset stomach, that would not make sense.

That was just my sign off, and probably a poor choice.


Trish

[Carlo Von Sexron]

Did you just cheers an upset stomach?

A good reason to supplement via IV iron.

[RunRichard11311]

Bleh, silly 15 year old trying to pretend he knows all about vitamins.

I asked mi padre, and he said that iron and CALCIUM don't hurt each other at all: it's iron and vitamin E where they absorb each other. He said although when taken together, they don't influence each other enough to make a big difference, but if you all must, just take them with separate meals.

[Carlo Von Sexron]

Bleh, silly 15 year old trying to pretend he knows all about vitamins.

I asked mi padre, and he said that iron and CALCIUM don't hurt each other at all: it's iron and vitamin E where they absorb each other. He said although when taken together, they don't influence each other enough to make a big difference, but if you all must, just take them with separate meals.

"Calcium and iron combined in a meal may decrease the absorption of iron."

http://web.mit.edu/athletics/sportsmedicine/wcrminerals.html

I guess your father doesn't work for MIT.


And the whole "absorbing each other" bit ... yeah, that's not really how it works.

[HINKLO]

Nice catch....

No, I did not intend to CHEERS an upset stomach, that would not make sense.

That was just my sign off, and probably a poor choice.


Trish

I was just pushing buttons. =P