Full Text of Health Care Destruction Bill

[herr]

Originally Posted by KenA55

Well I've never been to Europe, but I suspect if you mix in with the locals, away from the Universities and such, you'd likely find a majority of theists there as well.

If you believe in numbers, then 95% belief in god actually includes a fair number of people in Universities. Probably a fair amount of people who believe in central banks actually also believe in God in the US.

On the other side, 15 or 20% of Europeans believe in god, go to Church etc. Just based on the numbers, its possible to conclude that a good number of salt of the earth, regular folk who don't have university degrees actually count among the 80-85% who don't belive in god or go to Church.


The really interesting thing about the world is that it is actually different than the United States.

[KenA55]

Originally Posted by herr

If you believe in numbers, then 95% belief in god actually includes a fair number of people in Universities. Probably a fair amount of people who believe in central banks actually also believe in God in the US.

On the other side, 15 or 20% of Europeans believe in god, go to Church etc. Just based on the numbers, its possible to conclude that a good number of salt of the earth, regular folk who don't have university degrees actually count among the 80-85% who don't belive in god or go to Church.


The really interesting thing about the world is that it is actually different than the United States.

Everybody believes in central banks, so the theists among them are a wholly contained subset. Approving of central banks is another thing entirely, of course. And it should also be said that not all theists necessarily approve of God. If approval matters, LOL.

While I suspect, without covering all the bases, that there are very few places in the world like the US, I'm not inclined to put a whole lot of stock in the notion that just 15-20% of Europeans are theists, and church attendance is an unrelated matter for many.

[herr]

Originally Posted by KenA55

While I suspect, without covering all the bases, that there are very few places in the world like the US, I'm not inclined to put a whole lot of stock in the notion that just 15-20% of Europeans are theists, and church attendance is an unrelated matter for many.

you gotta believe what you gotta believe. that is the way of the world

[king99]

What is this latest turmoil on here, all is well you Republicans, trust me NJ Dem did not win!!

You guys do crack me up!!

[Glenn Fairman]

Originally Posted by herr

Churches are an amazingly important part of the American community. They are what make American's different than almost any other developed country. Hardly any Europeans believe in God, much less attend a Church. Nearly 95% of Americans say that they believe in God.

America is an amazing place.

Words of sober truth Herr

[homeless]

I'm starting to see the light I think.

The poor and uneducated were actually born into wealth and a family history of education.

So they walked away from it and chose to have limited opportunities, to have parents smoking up and drinking until 3am while they try and study on a Wednesday night...they chose to move into a ghetto and walk home avoiding drug dealers all day. They chose to move into a trailer park in West Virginia. They chose a mother in jail for crack use and dealing. They chose to be given to abusive parents.

They were born into a 2 million dollar home and chose to walk away from it and into the ghetto.

F*** thy neighbor. Just a lazy bastard that was born or dropped into wealth, who then chose poverty and unemployment.

It was their choice. They should have chosen wealth if they wanted health care.

We give them dignity when we allow them to rot from the insides for lack of health care.

I see the light.

[KenA55]

I don't think anyone wants health care to be out of reach, Chris. For those fighting hard against the govt mandate options (and really it's a mandate about insurance, not about health care directly - citizens would still have every option open as to whether to actually seek out health care or not on any given day, no plan provision that I'm aware of forces anybody to march on down to the clinic) it is simply because in a contracted economy you just can't place the burden on an already deeply in the red and getting deeper faster entity. That entity is central Federal govt. Unless the aim is to accelerate the destruction of that entity to the max. Our constitution was designed to protect us against supporting a ballooning Fed entity that eventually bursts into insolvency, but those protections have been stretched extremely thin.

The real fix for the situation lies in the direction of rebuilding American industry, that is the great natural income-leveler and opportunity-provider, but unfortunately today too many on both sides of the aisle are too deeply invested in globalism/corporatism to advocate for a return to constitutionally sound and proven means to stop America's economic hemorrhaging and gradually turn it around. That's the weakness in Zat's pan also, by the way - we will have to borrow deeply to fund those vouchers and that will further destroy the value of the currency, hurting everyone, and perhaps fatally, sooner rather than later. The best and brightest option is to focus on rebuilding our nation's economy, something that does not require massive govt spending or forays into new and uncharted territory, both in regards to govt scope and govt red ink.

We do no favor to the dispossessed by applying expensive band-aids to cover America's real wounds, this ongoing band-aid approach only insures there will be no economically-viable and solvent govt to lend any kind of assistance whatsoever in very short order.

[yifter]

Originally Posted by homeless

I see the light.

Point taken, and I'm sure your experience as an educator has been invaluable in recognizing those on the bottom, in viewing the underside of the empire. Even if we disagree about the causes of or solutions to our neighbor's problems, a sense of empathy is often an important first step. In my view equally important is to believe that those with opposing views arrived at their conclusions in good faith and are not spawns of demons. I believe it is when we encounter oppositional arguments that our own become beliefs more concrete. For example brother Cornel West was taught by Robert Nozick at Harvard.

However, sociologists, ethicists, philosophers, economists, and theologians have debated and will continue to debate public policy, often finding what appear to be irreconcilable diagnoses as to the cause of problems and potential solutions. The debate over the importance of structure vs agency will continue on...

[homeless]

I agree about the need to shrink the government, and drastically. It is a popular fallacy (not saying you said it) that only the left grows government and the right contracts it.

Maybe if over the last 8 years we'd cared a bit more about our own people, and a bit less about swinging our d*** into everything, we'd have the money to do this. We talk about the need for national security while we a) incite nation after nation to hate us, and b) spend money on everything except health, which I think has something to do with security.

It really doesn't matter in my opinion...the only thing that will possibly change anything about the evils of our government, and I agree a ballooning government, is to have campaign finance reform. Until that happens, big business will run both parties, and thus the country for their own benefit. But campaign finance reform won't happen, so we can all just start drinking whiskey and wait for the roof to collapse.

[homeless]

Originally Posted by yifter

Point taken, and I'm sure your experience as an educator has been invaluable in recognizing those on the bottom

As well as my experiences growing up amongst low income individuals. I saw the struggles they made. I was more fortunate; in no way am I a bootstrap story. But I saw tons of individuals who busted their ass to break the cycle of poverty, only to be overcome by too many factors outside their control. Whitetrashville in my K-8 years, and mixed minorities 9-12 (I was the only white guy on the team at least one winter track season).

Make no mistake: I do not think I am "right" about this or anything. I just know that those that strongly oppose losing a bit more of income via taxes, to help others in regards to this basic human need, makes me sick to my stomach. It sickens me even more when there is so much overlap in such individuals with individuals who go around patting themselves on the back for being Christians, and individuals that also say things like "we should just level the f***ing desert and start over".

I'm not saying this is the case with anyone on here, or with any of the areas you live in. But I see it left and right where I am in South Jersey and Philadelphia, and that's a pretty good cross section of demographics.