Full Text of Health Care Destruction Bill - Page 9

homeless · #81 11-07-2009, 12:04 PM

Well a common theme I notice is that Patriotism is sexy when it involves bombing the s*** out of people, blowing them apart, invading, letting our boys get killed and maimed in the process- all in the name of saving lives here from another attack (even though such attitudes and efforts only seem to be what inspires such attacks)...but Patriotism not so sexy when it involves saving life here and now via simple health care.

I never put everyone into the same category, but find a lot of people finding a lot of curious justifications to not give a damn about their fellow Americans...care in regards to the most basic human need.

Health.

Isn't it curious that health care companies are so amazingly opposed to health care reform in any form? Wonder why.

Kalaby · #82 11-07-2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homeless

Well a common theme I notice is that Patriotism is sexy when it involves bombing the s*** out of people, blowing them apart, invading, letting our boys get killed and maimed in the process- all in the name of saving lives here from another attack (even though such attitudes and efforts only seem to be what inspires such attacks)...but Patriotism not so sexy when it involves saving life here and now via simple health care.

And you explain events under Clinton's administration how???

To coin a phrase of yours, he was doing d!ck swinging of a different kind during his presidency, yet I still don't remember the bad guys playing nice.

king99 · #83 11-07-2009, 11:37 PM

whoaa here? Homeless you are anti the war or just the bombing part?and you know I like you.

I just want to get a straight answer..no one wants anyone killed, that is obvious.

This is The Healthcare thread, I have developed strong opinions on the war and Military thing, what a surprise I guess, but I do not pretend to be educated, by I know my son is actually expert on all of these things at this point.

A. He is smart to begin with

B. He is level headed

C. I now start to find it offensive if someone says it is all reckless bombing and maiming, beacuse I think there is actually honor in giving up what would be a sure desk job at some Fortune 500 Company and yet still would go and do this, I never would have.

Chris, this is NOT directed at you, but I see it too much.

It is funny and has been to me for a while that folks take their politcial view into every area, when Bush did not react quickly enough he was trashed. when the Cole bombing happened on Clinton's watch , same thing.

yet folks bash on both side and will continue after my post.

Now Obama will get thrashed for whatever the F he does.

I say, leave the Military issues to those who actually serve and know what they are doing, and leave Healthcare to ............

Who? Those follks in Ct that were playing solitaire, photographed and another guy watching ESPN or MLB.

Do they actually get to vote on this ****?

The whole thing becomes a joke to me.

homeless · #84 11-08-2009, 09:11 AM

You mistook my point King. No disrespect meant towards your son or any soldiers. All the respect in the world.

Our NATION has had a recent habit of promoting Patriotism in a d*** swinging manner...our NATION has a recent habit of bombing the crap out of foreign nations...not judging the boys in uniform. Afghanistan made sense, completely; Iraq did not in any way, shape or form.

Fighting is viewed as Patriotic, while compassion for fellow Americans in the form of health care, not so much. Everyone instantly cries liberty. Trying to work out agreement even became wussyish under Bush. No Texan would ever do such a thing. Just bomb 'em.

Kalaby. I am not a Democrat. I do not let Clinton off the hook. He is to blame for not pursuing terrorists enough. I agree with Bush pursuing terrorists.

But once we start invading nations like Iraq, a situation that has no justification outside our economic needs, we lose credibility and inspire attacks. We do not inspire all attacks recently. Much of what we have inspired has been via our middle east policies for decades. I'm quite certain I know how anyone and everyone here would feel if other nations came in, took a bunch of our land, and said "sorry, this group needs someplace to stay". I'm not Anti-Semetic, just pro objectivity. Our policies have inspired attacks, plain and simple. Our attacks recently have made it worse.

This ties into health care for me because we have chosen to spend the 1 trillion on invading Iraq...killing our own boys and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's, rather than spending it on health care domestically.

homeless · #85 11-08-2009, 09:12 AM

Again King...to be clear: NOTHING but respect for our military and our soldiers.

king99 · #86 11-08-2009, 10:37 AM

I over reacted . sorry, all should expect more of the same!!

Kalaby · #87 11-08-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homeless

Kalaby. I am not a Democrat. I do not let Clinton off the hook. He is to blame for not pursuing terrorists enough. I agree with Bush pursuing terrorists.

Fair enough - I understand that you're not a democrat, but you'd have to admit that many of your posts leave at least me with the impression that this all started on Jan 20, 2001. Maybe that's just the nature of the beast that the last sheriff in town gets the most blame (especially given that administration's offensive minded military policies); I guess only you can say for sure. When you take time to spell your positions out fully (like you've just done) it helps, and I happen to agree with at least some of it. For the record, I think we have been too involved in the world's affairs post-WWII, but other than flat out direct threats to our national security, it is often a very gray area (outside the camps of the ultra-hawks or the isolationists) as to when we do step in and when we stay out of things.

Kalaby · #88 11-08-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homeless

This ties into health care for me because we have chosen to spend the 1 trillion on invading Iraq...killing our own boys and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's, rather than spending it on health care domestically.

That's a fair argument, but we could also talk about the absurd amount of our money that the government has wasted in many ways over the years. It all depends on how a civilian or politician defines money well spent.

king99 · #89 11-08-2009, 11:20 AM

Again, hate to beat a dead horse, but look at who we have voting on bills at the state or federal level, people who are in charge of passing budgets that are playing solitaire and watching You Tube.

These people should be removed immediately, this is why we should have term limits, that at least have outs to get rid of idiots.

We have ass holes parading around making life changing decisions

homeless · #90 11-08-2009, 11:25 AM

King. Fair enough. Look back at my post prior about J.A....I was attempting all along to make it clear I support the soldiers 100%. My dad was a Vietnam Vet; nothing but empathy for soldiers stuck in wars of mixed popularity. Kudos to the boy and a million thanks from me to him.

Kalaby...I equate it to a bad teacher or coach. A good teacher or coach gives consequences to a deserving kid (detention/sitting a meet) and the rest of the team tends to understand the kid had it coming.

But once the teacher or coach does something simply because they lose their temper, or because they have half-assed information...and they take it out on the kid...well, the teacher or coach is gonna start losing the loyalty of the other kids quickly. Everything suddenly seems arbitrary and therefore, reasonably, everyone is put on guard and defensive. The kids start rallying around each other against the boss.

When we invaded Iraq over Kuwait, it made sense and I think the world understood. Afghanistan, the same. But when we invaded Iraq on a false premise, the world also understood we were doing this in a B.S. manner and everyone reasonably took this as bullying.

What inspired these conflicts in the first place? We booted Muslims from their land and restricted their access to their Holy Land. We did this while we sided with the Jewish people. I'm not sure what the right solution was back when we started this, but I sure as hell understand why the Muslims saw this as a policy at their expense...and so we get 9/11 eventually. I see it as a few individuals (like Bin Laden) taking advantage of testosterone and emotions, leading them to such attacks...but nonetheless, such feelings in the suicide attackers didn't come out of thin air.

Our recent policies, under Bush, made it clear that we have no problem bullying around a Muslim nation for our own benefit if we so choose. Thus, in my mind, we have inspired more attacks. If we had stuck to going after terror cells, kudos to Bush. But we didn't.

I agree on government waste. Makes me want to throw up, or something worse...but if it should be spent anywhere, it's on the health and welfare of our fellow citizens; nothing could be more noble. There are plenty on the right that seem to forget how they supported pork programs that were absurd (could have been spent on health care). From what I've heard, also seem to be a lot on the right that were opposed to health care, EXCEPT in regards to ailments that someone in their family had. The lack of objectivity of our leaders is sad and scary. Everyone suddenly wants to "tighten the belt" after years of overspending on B.S.

I'm hoping the House vote is a sign that maybe this might get done. I also hope it gets done as smartly as possible and with strong oversight...AND with reform of the industry, not a dismantling of it.