Lukas Verzbicas vs. the Rosas

[TrackCoach]

Originally Posted by Equinox2100

This is about HS XC only. Everyone knows the accomplishments of these grads, don't worry. But to determine an AT great in HS XC you can ONLY look at the narrow scope of HS XC. It sucks, because 6-10 races can determine yay or nay, but that's why is called ALL TIME GREAT and not just really really good.



As king pointed out, German wasn't sick. He lost a shoe or something. Remember all the threads about that? And IMO, track and cross country ARE two different worlds. I mean, the great guys will always be GOOD in cross country, but look at what Lee Emmanuel has done this XC season. Or what Wheating did last cross country season. Solid, but nothing spectacular. Cross Country is a totally different ball game.



Very true, and one did come in HS, I forgot about that. That does add a whole different level to Germans argument.



QFE, except for maybe his USA JR XC win?



Good post. Like I said before, it's all about the Victory. There is some grey area where the guys are insane on the world stage like Derrick and Geman for their age, but then again they lost to Fout, who hasn't done much. But who knows he's just finishing his first season of college running so maybe he'll bust out later.

Anyway, my criteria:

-Get close to or break a semi-prestigious CR
-Undefeated
-National Champion (NXN, FL, USA JR's)

If 2 of the 3 are met, I would probably consider them an All-Timer.

Sometimes there aren't races to go to for a potential All-Timer that is very prestigious. I can grant a pass on that, especially because XC, again, is about place.

Winning Nationals is the strongest bid for an All-Time mark. Your name is in the book, as #1, forever. Nothing can take that away.

Being Undefeated is also very important (XC. Place. Important. ). All-Timers don't come around every year, and if you lose, the other person better be damn good to beat you if you wanna retain your case to be an all timer.

W/o a doubt, winning FLNC is big and it s/b one of the the main criterium, but Barry Sanders never won a Superbowl and he is absolutely one of best, if not the best runningbacks ever. In spite of not winning FLNC, I still think of Fernandez as one of the great H.S. XC runners; he simply choose the wrong day to have his one bad race.

[Evilution]

Originally Posted by TrackCoach

W/o a doubt, winning FLNC is big and it s/b one of the the main criterium, but Barry Sanders never won a Superbowl and he is absolutely one of best, if not the best runningbacks ever. In spite of not winning FLNC, I still think of Fernandez as one of the great H.S. XC runners; he simply choose the wrong day to forget his spikes

Fixed.

[Heracles]

Originally Posted by TrackCoach

W/o a doubt, winning FLNC is big and it s/b one of the the main criterium, but Barry Sanders never won a Superbowl and he is absolutely one of best, if not the best runningbacks ever. In spite of not winning FLNC, I still think of Fernandez as one of the great H.S. XC runners; he simply choose the wrong day to have his one bad race.

I think he had a bad race because he went with the leaders at the start.

2:10 / 4:28 is a ridiculous pace to open up with at FL


It was like puskedra/lowe/fernandez/williams? --- brandon? / fout --- ? / derrick until the 2nd mile or so.

[Equinox2100]

Originally Posted by TrackCoach

W/o a doubt, winning FLNC is big and it s/b one of the the main criterium, but Barry Sanders never won a Superbowl and he is absolutely one of best, if not the best runningbacks ever. In spite of not winning FLNC, I still think of Fernandez as one of the great H.S. XC runners; he simply choose the wrong day to have his one bad race.

Hence having to fulfill 2 of my 3 criterion.

Originally Posted by Heracles

I think he had a bad race because he went with the leaders at the start.

2:10 / 4:28 is a ridiculous pace to open up with at FL


It was like puskedra/lowe/fernandez/williams? --- brandon? / fout --- ? / derrick until the 2nd mile or so.

Puskedra.

[HoriconAve]

Originally Posted by TrackCoach

W/o a doubt, winning FLNC is big and it s/b one of the the main criterium, but Barry Sanders never won a Superbowl and he is absolutely one of best, if not the best runningbacks ever. In spite of not winning FLNC, I still think of Fernandez as one of the great H.S. XC runners; he simply choose the wrong day to have his one bad race.

Not a great analogy.

Fernandez didn't have to carry the entire Detroit Lions franchise on his back while he was running.

[GeorgieTheK]

Originally Posted by Joe Lanzalotto

He also beat Craig at Penn at 3K in their ssenior year after losing to him at the NIN deuce on Craig's blast coming around the final turn.

Centro won the 3k at Penn as a junior, running 8:20. Won the Penn h.s. mile as a senior in 4:08+.

8:20 as a junior is pretty studly - that's certainly not coming out of the blue.

[Joe Lanzalotto]

Originally Posted by GeorgieTheK

Centro won the 3k at Penn as a junior, running 8:20. Won the Penn h.s. mile as a senior in 4:08+.

8:20 as a junior is pretty studly - that's certainly not coming out of the blue.

Exactly my point. Funny thing is that the 3K in his junior year (my mistake) WAS out of the blue. Centro was not running on that level as a junior. In fact, at NIN he ran the 2 mile in the afternoon heats while Forys and Coe squared off in the seeded heat. Murdock was in there too. Matt ran 9:20.38, while Coe and Forys were both under 9:00.